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pavitarsin

hand written & drawn gurmukhi scriptures

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While travelling through pakistan i came across these scriptures (pics attached) , can someone help me here with identifying these ? Are these of any historical or spiritual value to Sikhism ? (These are currently not in my possession, but with some Pakistani antique dealer) would it be worth getting these from him ?

Any help translating these would be much appreciated !!

IMG_20170201_210010.jpg

IMG_20170201_205942.jpg

IMG_20170201_210049.jpg

Edited by pavitarsin
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These are from a different book from the same collection :

 

There are four books in total & I'm thinking about getting these & donating to a Sikh museum.

IMG_20170201_210148.jpg

tmp_11017-IMG_20170201_2101481816065148.jpg

IMG_20170201_210138.jpg

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On 2/23/2017 at 7:07 PM, pavitarsin said:

These are from a different book from the same collection :

 

There are four books in total & I'm thinking about getting these & donating to a Sikh museum.

IMG_20170201_210148.jpg

tmp_11017-IMG_20170201_2101481816065148.jpg

IMG_20170201_210138.jpg

From what I see, there is a pic of Shri Guru Hargobind Sahib. Maybe it is a pothi of Gurbilas Patshahi Shevin or something related. If I were you I would never let this opportunity get away. You should buy it. 

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On 02/26/2017 at 8:23 PM, 5akaalsingh said:

From what I see, there is a pic of Shri Guru Hargobind Sahib. Maybe it is a pothi of Gurbilas Patshahi Shevin or something related. If I were you I would never let this opportunity get away. You should buy it. 

Yea, I'm in the process of buying these.

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That is Sri Varaha Avtar in the first photo. That's all I understand.

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On 03/07/2017 at 10:13 AM, Preeet said:

That is Sri Varaha Avtar in the first photo. That's all I understand.

I think it says baerha avtar !

tmp_16362-IMG_20170201_210010_011779183148.jpg

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Seems like the Gurbani is Sukhmani Sahib.

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14 hours ago, pavitarsin said:

I think it says baerha avtar !

tmp_16362-IMG_20170201_210010_011779183148.jpg

That is the same thing as Sri Varaha avtar : ) Kinda like how some call 'Narsingh' as Sri Narasimha avtar.

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story the Varaha Avtar , from this it is clear that the devte had too trigger happy krodh , so were really stuck in maya too

and it is interesting to note that they considered human birth as inferior when Gurbani tells us that they envy human birth as we have the ability to do bhagti and serve Akal Purakh...hmm

http://www.importantindia.com/2693/varaha-avatar-story/

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Aw okayy, thanks for replying guys, i just recieved one "pothi" by courier, I'll try to take a better look, & scan and upload better pages.

Edited by pavitarsin
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On 3/9/2017 at 6:36 AM, jkvlondon said:

story the Varaha Avtar , from this it is clear that the devte had too trigger happy krodh , so were really stuck in maya too

and it is interesting to note that they considered human birth as inferior when Gurbani tells us that they envy human birth as we have the ability to do bhagti and serve Akal Purakh...hmm

http://www.importantindia.com/2693/varaha-avatar-story/

What's happy Krodh? But I can guess why the artist would depict him, it represents sin and how he's lost and trying to find Vaheguru somehow. (Just my interpretation, don't know if this was from the Ranjit Singh kingdom as there were a lot of Hinduized Sikh practices at the time).

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MAN, please possess them ! I am willing to PAY ! But just get these in a sikh museum . Please don't keep with yourself forever lol.

They seem historical ! It will be of value to us I think , as a community 

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On 3/9/2017 at 3:36 AM, jkvlondon said:

story the Varaha Avtar , from this it is clear that the devte had too trigger happy krodh , so were really stuck in maya too

and it is interesting to note that they considered human birth as inferior when Gurbani tells us that they envy human birth as we have the ability to do bhagti and serve Akal Purakh...hmm

http://www.importantindia.com/2693/varaha-avatar-story/

I read the site and it left out so much from the story.. Like where they were given a choice to be born as Sri Vishnu's foes (less rebirths) or friends (more births); and they chose foes because it meant that theyd be separated for less births from Sri Vishnu rather than the other option.

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8 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

What's happy Krodh? But I can guess why the artist would depict him, it represents sin and how he's lost and trying to find Vaheguru somehow. (Just my interpretation, don't know if this was from the Ranjit Singh kingdom as there were a lot of Hinduized Sikh practices at the time).

'trigger happy' in other words quick to trip into Krodh

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5 hours ago, Preeet said:

I read the site and it left out so much from the story.. Like where they were given a choice to be born as Sri Vishnu's foes (less rebirths) or friends (more births); and they chose foes because it meant that theyd be separated for less births from Sri Vishnu rather than the other option.

That is so illogical if you are saying Vishnu is a good guy ...it is like saying if you are friends with a good man you are going to be punished by Akal Purakh whereas if you are a good man's enemy you with get rewarded by Akal Purakh ..It is irrelevant to a sikh however as just need to put a name to a face ....

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Please don't get entangled or criticizing of three dieties of hinduism : brahma vishnu shiva

In words of Mazumdar , a bengali hindu historian

Quote

Its most notable expression is to be found in the theological conception of the Trimūrti, i.e., the manifestation of the supreme God in three forms of Brahmā, Viṣṇu, and Śiva... But the attempt cannot be regarded as a great success, for Brahmā never gained an ascendancy comparable to that of Śiva or Viṣṇu, and the different sects often conceived the Trimūrti as really the three manifestations of their own sectarian god, whom they regarded as Brahman or Absolute.[12]

Who 's this supreme god that vedas speak of ?

its known as "brahm" or "parbrahm" , same words SGGS used as well numerous times.

Our hindu brothers got confused on this one ! If you ask a vaishnav brother who's the supreme god, he will say vishnu. 

If you ask a shaivite who's the supreme god, he will say shiva . No one worships brahma btw ! 

I had read little on english translation of 10 major upanishads . Upanishads are like embedded texts within vedas . Like how sukhmani sahib is embedded in SGGS.

One of the foremost ones , Katha upanishad says
 

Quote

 

This is that eternal Asvattha Tree with its root above and branches below. That root, indeed, is called the Bright; That is Brahman and That alone is the Immortal. In That all worlds are contained and none can pass beyond. This, verily, is That.

2) Whatever there is—the whole universe—vibrates because it has gone forth from Brahman, which exists as its Ground. That Brahman is a great terror, like a poised thunderbolt. Those who know It become immortal.

3) From terror of Brahman, fire burns; from terror of It, the sun shines; from terror of It, Indra and Vayu and Death, the fifth, run.


 

This sounds quite familiar to gurbani "Bhae vich agan ... bhae vich ... " (so sorry don't remember the full shabad). 

Ignorance comes because people don't want to understand their own scriptures 

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8 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

MAN, please possess them ! I am willing to PAY ! But just get these in a sikh museum . Please don't keep with yourself forever lol.

They seem historical ! It will be of value to us I think , as a community 

In this world, of not having a Khalistan or Theocratic Punjab, I'd avoid just putting it in a museum owned by Indian lands. Most Punjabis now have been to desensitized to even support maintaining anything Sikh related. If you were to go to Nankana, you'd see none of the historical things that were there before, (such as Guru Sahib's kitchen, Guru Sahib's utensils, or even his home, which they destroyed to build a Gurdwara). There are non-religious things owned by non-sikhs that still stayed the same for thousands of years, and we Sikhs change everything in a few years.

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1 minute ago, Jacfsing2 said:

In this world, of not having a Khalistan or Theocratic Punjab, I'd avoid just putting it in a museum owned by Indian lands. Most Punjabis now have been to desensitized to even support maintaining anything Sikh related. If you were to go to Nankana, you'd see none of the historical things that were there before, (such as Guru Sahib's kitchen, Guru Sahib's utensils, or even his home, which they destroyed to build a Gurdwara). There are non-religious things owned by non-sikhs that still stayed the same for thousands of years, and we Sikhs change everything in a few years.

are there pics of guru sahibs' home ?

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8 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Please don't get entangled or criticizing of three dieties of hinduism : brahma vishnu shiva

In words of Mazumdar , a bengali hindu historian

Who 's this supreme god that vedas speak of ?

its known as "brahm" or "parbrahm" , same words SGGS used as well numerous times.

Our hindu brothers got confused on this one ! If you ask a vaishnav brother who's the supreme god, he will say vishnu. 

If you ask a shaivite who's the supreme god, he will say shiva . No one worships brahma btw ! 

I had read little on english translation of 10 major upanishads . Upanishads are like embedded texts within vedas . Like how sukhmani sahib is embedded in SGGS.

One of the foremost ones , Katha upanishad says
 

This sounds quite familiar to gurbani "Bhae vich agan ... bhae vich ... " (so sorry don't remember the full shabad). 

Ignorance comes because people don't want to understand their own scriptures 

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that following these Vedas one is led away from Akaal Purkh. He also said that the Deities are arrogant and consider themselves supreme. That isn't criticism its nothing more than an objective evaluation of the truth. 

 

All of the Devta are far below a true Gursikh, in fact Guru Granth Sahib Ji even states that Maya has them entangled in her web. All of them succumb to their own flaws, Shiva succumbed to rage, Brahma succumb to pride, Vishnu fell to lust and pride. Sure in terms of Spiritality they are above ordinary people, but they themselves are bound by death. None of them know anything about God and all these scriptures that they released onto the world are devoid of Naam and Gurbani.

Edited by Kira
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6 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

are there pics of guru sahibs' home ?

No, but that's the thing, because they built a huge gurdwara to replace it we can't see his home, this was before photography. You can't even see pre-Ranjit Singh Harmandir Sahib.

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The pages are really fragile & scanning them is a bit difficult, I'll try to upload more soon, & the antique dealer in Pakistan contacted me saying that these were written by someone famous, though he couldn't tell whom. Hmmm58c65f784c480_Scanpothi1(1).thumb.JPG.cd7bd974e69dc84001dcbc67bd0508ff.JPG58c65f946b5f1_Scanpothi1(2).thumb.JPG.692b426cc7ef7c8291aa6f5361e947ce.JPG58c66034d5a45_Scanpothi1(6).thumb.JPG.9b29a388fa3d398dfe36baa38a4947ef.JPG58c660a0e27ee_Scanpothi1(7).thumb.JPG.8647ce9887d4d4f42bb07edc2bc3641b.JPG58c660558b8ea_Scanpothi1(8).thumb.JPG.2c3fcb2d88d5cf0add17afd8b5a81c8b.JPG58c660718e3a0_Scanpothi1(9).thumb.JPG.c36bee8ac37aa4a4f8748dd054ee9508.JPG58c65fe01d0cf_Scanpothi1(10).thumb.JPG.9a3d4901bbadc7b0ae7af95918e5be08.JPG

Scan pothi1 (4).JPG

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58c660558b8ea_Scanpothi1(8).thumb.JPG.2c3fcb2d88d5cf0add17afd8b5a81c8b.JPG

 

This is sukhmani sahib .

5th ashthapadi starting on the left bottom page, 

BTW did anyone else notice second line of the first pada is missing in this pothi ..It misses the line 

"ek bhi na dae das bhi hir lae"

 

So , baani as we know it is 

"das bastu lae paache paave.

ek bast kaaran bikhot gavaave.

ek bhi na dae das bhi hir lae"

 

but here in this pothi, we have 

"das bastu lae paache paave.

k bhi na dae das bhi hir lae"

 

even 'eedi' is missing . 

 

Perhaps someone made writing mistake 

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This is from Sri Sukhmani Sahib.

 

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 271

 

whoever speaks of Him shall be liberated
Listen, O friends, Nanak prays, to the wonderful story of the Holy. ||1||

58c6b221abe76_oldgranth1.jpg.3f2cb9bd354a9475321f3e928b762ddc.jpg

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This granth is dated in the samvat of 19 Faghan 1814 ie about 1757 isvi.

58c6b2757a089_oldgranth5.jpg.76ba85d96d8b61c1973f920be3a0323c.jpgThat would be the same year Baba Deep Singh Ji became shaheed

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On 09/03/2017 at 0:57 PM, pavitarsin said:

Aw okayy, thanks for replying guys, i just recieved one "pothi" by courier, I'll try to take a better look, & scan and upload better pages.

PLease do, and share them sikhawareness.com as well  Bhaji. i had responded to your posts there, but it seems yo haven't seen them yet.

 

Please divulge a little more on how you came across these and eventually acquired them Bhaji.

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