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Sikhi becoming backward and non progressive

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Guest London jwaan   
Guest London jwaan

Just reading through the posts on this board, watching the sikh TV channels and reading what is happening in punjab, leads me to the conclusion that at a higher level, our community is set for destruction, largely through our own stupidity. Sikhs are our own worst enemies.

If you look at other communities, people are getting on to progress themselves. Ours? Becoming more intolerant, militant, discriminatory even with each other. 

It is ironic that a lot of our community believe that demonstrating in gurdwaras, whipping out kirpans at any opportunity, enjoying any excuse to rebel, is something positive. Its not. Once again it makes the community look like uneducated, under achieving idiots. And make as many comparisons to gurus standing up to much also as you like, it's not the same at all.

Just read the posts in this board, beadbi, jatts criticising tarkhans, anti government posts etc. Not one positive post. No real sikh achievements to speak of.

Look at the matrimonial lists in gurdwaras: seeking "jatts". "Pathwari" clean shaven, amridhari etc. 5 feet tall girls seeking 6'4 guys. Fat guys seeking size 8 girls, "slim" girls being morbidly obese in reality, people with half an hnd working in a shop seeking consultant doctors, investment bankers etc. What meaningless nonsense! And it is precisely this that makes a mockery of our religion, culture that is pushing educated young Sikhs away. The result will be dwindling numbers and eventual wipe out of our communities as we know them. 

Look at Christians, Muslims etc. Sure they have some different factions. But most important to them is that ultimately somebody belongs to the same faith. In ours? Jatts don't consider non jatts as Sikhs, non jatts consider jatts to be "behvkoof" amridharis consider monay to not be proper Sikhs, and the result is just a fractured community laughed at by the rest of the world destined to eventual wipe itself out.

And it gets progressively worse. Consider the case of Somerset Road and Smethwick gurdwaras in Birmingham. Now uneducated sikh gangsters have effectively taken control of the gurdwaras to loot the sangats donations! This is the sign of a community that is destructive. Unless things change rapidly, whip out as many kirpans as you like, our community will remain a joke on the world stage.

So keep reporting the beadbi, criticising each other, and being increasing intolerant, because soon enough there won't be enough numbers to matter.

And not that it matters, I am an educated "jatts" professional for anyone that cars about such nonsense. I am a sikh and that's all I need to define myself.

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MisterrSingh    2,802

The "educated young Sikh" in the West is as much a part of the long-term problem that will decimate us as a people, as the kirpan-waving, uncouth, status and wealth obsessed pendu. Two sides of the same coin, the difference being the EYS has deluded himself into believing he occupies some form of a higher moral ground that sets him apart from his so-called lessers. Both sides are serious causes for concern.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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Guest London jwan   
Guest London jwan

Misterssingh, the delusions unfortunately I believe are yours. Particularly that you believe an educated sikh will decimate the community! Can you even read punjabi? Because most of our community can't I can tell you. I can because I bothered to learn. Have you ever meet a Chinese person that could read Chinese? Is not a question of occupying higher moral ground but a question of getting on in a progressive world, rather than imagining the world is against us, where whipping out a kirpan is the answer to everything.

Aside from that, the uneducated is what is the scourge of our community. That's what breeds idiocy like " the tarkhan gurdwara in Woolwich" (from a previous post). And the references to "punjabi" rather than sikh because every person believes they are the gurus true follower but everyone else is doing beadbi. 

And Preet, it's not harming me, but if you look at it from a higher level, the British sought loyalty from the Sikhs and rewarded them by dividing their land on their departure whilst master tarantula Singh was busy posing for photographs, jinna and the sulay convinced the British to hand over more than 50% off punjab. Hindus ran rings around the kirpan wavers and divided what was left into haryana and himachal. Now, every program on sikh TV is about 1984, this forum is full of beadbi reports. Sikhs are stereotyped as drunken lorry driving hooligans in India. 

Why would anyone care about an irrelevant community like that in the world stage? Look at badal - systematic looting of punjab, and the residents are too high on heroin to notice.

Ask yourself this : why are the minority Jews and Israel so relevant and the Sikhs not?

Is because at a lower level our community is full of hypocrisy, division, jealousy and on a direct path to destruction.

And the "spin" on this forum cracks me up. Meat and sharab in the LANGAR HALL. Really? Really? Nonsense. You mean in a community Hall owned by the gurdwara. Not that I'm condoning it, but that's hardly precise. Kind of a tabloid headline. On that subject, I recall reading some years ago where some idiots from our community went to Derby and created a disturbance. Daily mail headline? " Sikhs smash up their own temple"

Nice one.

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jkvlondon    3,409
9 hours ago, Guest London jwaan said:

Just reading through the posts on this board, watching the sikh TV channels and reading what is happening in punjab, leads me to the conclusion that at a higher level, our community is set for destruction, largely through our own stupidity. Sikhs are our own worst enemies.

If you look at other communities, people are getting on to progress themselves. Ours? Becoming more intolerant, militant, discriminatory even with each other. 

It is ironic that a lot of our community believe that demonstrating in gurdwaras, whipping out kirpans at any opportunity, enjoying any excuse to rebel, is something positive. Its not. Once again it makes the community look like uneducated, under achieving idiots. And make as many comparisons to gurus standing up to much also as you like, it's not the same at all.

Just read the posts in this board, beadbi, jatts criticising tarkhans, anti government posts etc. Not one positive post. No real sikh achievements to speak of.

Look at the matrimonial lists in gurdwaras: seeking "jatts". "Pathwari" clean shaven, amridhari etc. 5 feet tall girls seeking 6'4 guys. Fat guys seeking size 8 girls, "slim" girls being morbidly obese in reality, people with half an hnd working in a shop seeking consultant doctors, investment bankers etc. What meaningless nonsense! And it is precisely this that makes a mockery of our religion, culture that is pushing educated young Sikhs away. The result will be dwindling numbers and eventual wipe out of our communities as we know them. 

Look at Christians, Muslims etc. Sure they have some different factions. But most important to them is that ultimately somebody belongs to the same faith. In ours? Jatts don't consider non jatts as Sikhs, non jatts consider jatts to be "behvkoof" amridharis consider monay to not be proper Sikhs, and the result is just a fractured community laughed at by the rest of the world destined to eventual wipe itself out.

And it gets progressively worse. Consider the case of Somerset Road and Smethwick gurdwaras in Birmingham. Now uneducated sikh gangsters have effectively taken control of the gurdwaras to loot the sangats donations! This is the sign of a community that is destructive. Unless things change rapidly, whip out as many kirpans as you like, our community will remain a joke on the world stage.

So keep reporting the beadbi, criticising each other, and being increasing intolerant, because soon enough there won't be enough numbers to matter.

And not that it matters, I am an educated "jatts" professional for anyone that cars about such nonsense. I am a sikh and that's all I need to define myself.

erm , muslims KILL each other because of a feud started a thousand years before their birth ...so NO they are not sane examples , they are openly racist ask about mistreatment of Indian and Pakistani muslim by Arab nation on Hajj , they have black and Chinese muslims so yes they are multiracial but they want annihilate their local culture and replace it with Arab culture . 

Christianity is in decline in its strongholds in the West because of the mistrust between the sangat and the church , the roman catholics abuse scandals keep coming and the coverups keep being uncovered horrifying and disgusting the sangat ...so many new converts to sikhi have come from catholic backgrounds .

Jatts don't believe other are sikhs ? what? I am of that ancestry but I embrace all as my brothers and sisters unless they are doing beadbhi of My Guru ji, you admit you are of the same ancestry so do YOU believe they are not ???  Don't generalise about such a major issue  because you are doing the harm of disunity by spreading such BS . In India the misbehaviour of not letting sangat in or accepting their Degh has been denounced in the Sarbat Khalsa and it has been announced that no gurdwara around the globe should discriminate on any basis least of all janam. 

Mate if you have a problem with the rehit that Guru Pita ji laid down for us that is between you and Him ,but you cannot disobey your Guru on every turn  and then say I believe in and serve Him so call me a sikh. That is being a hypocrite something sikhs are supposed to avoid like the plague...

Sikhi is perfect because it came from a perfect Guru, Akal Purakh ... Sikhi is never in danger  but the number of humans who want to live and use the label Sikh are not willing to put in the love and effort seem to be lowering in the Punjab . Worldwide sikhs are springing up in different countries all the time and ARE willing to learn something and bring it into their lives even if it's harder for them the reward being so great , which is the opposite attiude to 'modern' sikhs  they want to change sikhi to suit themselves. 

Negative posts about the government is because the situations they have created are negative , to say different is to lie ... you can do the fingers in the ears, eyes closed lalala-ing as much as you want , 30 years of Badal has brought Punjab's future to destruction, the repeated looting of the golak and gurdwara land , the non-pursual of water rights has lead to the current life-death struggle , yes there is no untainted potable water thus the populace are being poisoned by thing that's supposed to keep them alive . 

Just because fights have been staged (30 year anniversary of blue star comes to mind) and splashed everywhere in MSM so many times to defame sikhs doesn't mean it is true reflection of the situation . The reason for fights in western gurdwarey is the committee system , people who have zero knowledge or sikh rehit are being put in charge of gurdwarey and then tell granthis ,speakers, kathavachiks, kirtaniyas to not talk against daru, drugs , about taking amrit , becoming guru wale . because they want to be left in peace to rip off the golak for their own use . As soon as we return to Punj piare system or even Sabarah system where rehitvaan gursikhs are responsible to make sure the Gurdwara becomes a dharamshala, akharda,  again. 

EDucated sikhs: just what do mean people who have worldly gian only ? If they are not intelligent enough to work out that the message is Gurbani and spreading its love is the job, and not willing to work to that end what good is that 'education' . If lok lajja is making you guys abandon your gurdwarey , your rehit and Guru ji then I feel sad for you.

 

 

Edited by jkvlondon

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S4NGH    541

"Just read the posts on this board. Not one positive post."

This post is banging yo!

It's very easy to focus on the negatives. But even within those negatives you can find positives if you have the eye to see them. There's nothing wrong with Sikhi my friend. Our community is a lot better off compared to others out there. To loosely translate a Punjabi saying, "two 'panday' do 'khadak' a little".

Edited by S4NGH

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Guest London jwan   
Guest London jwan

Jkvlondon your post is flawed for many reasons, but I will highlight just a few :

The Sikhs on this board do not consider Christian converts to Sikhism as equals. Particularly as is the case in the USA, with many becoming Sikhs via kundalini yoga. The comments are primarily that they are linked to 3ho which is not sikhi etc etc. It is highly ignorant if you deny that.

And your comments in muslims is also flawed. The most populous Muslim country is actually Indonesia. That's not Arabic. And yes there are problems between shias and sunnis. But on the whole, they accept people if they accept Islam. Doesn't mean they all get along, but they are not smashing up their own mosques, lying around in mecca high on heroin.

Apart from that, it is the sign of a <banned word filter activated> and of low intelligence to label an opposing view as BS. Explain why on matrimonials people are looking for "jatt girl" and "jatt boy"?? Explain why people need to specify that they are jatt at all?

And whilst you write that it has been declared that gurdwaras should not differentiate in the baits of dharam, GURU GOBIND SINGH JI himself declared that caste will not apply but it still does.......

I take it you consider me to be a "modern" sikh that's changing sikhi. Well you know nothing about me, what I believe our about my beliefs, but I can tell you, sitting there as a disaffected community believing that the world is against them and that their own sikh jath are less Sikhs because they trim their beards, eat Langar at a table, or girls wearing make up - is an idiotic, false way to live in the world. Is nothing about changing sikhi, believe what ever you like, but internal struggles will cause the community to become an irrelevant minority. And where have I disobeyed my guru on every turn, you self righteous, hypocritical imbecile?

And while you talk of roman Catholic abuse in the church, are you aware of previous abuse in the gurdwaras? Google it. What's your point?

You mention that I have my fingers in me ears, but to the contrary is clearly you that has your dirty cuchay shoved in your ears. Badal is a sikh. And the looting of golak etc is under his watch. But in your small mind, he is clearly not sikh.

And education is not incompatible with rehit or sikhi. Only a fool would believe that. And by inferring from my initial post where I stated that we should not been kirpan waving maniacs criticising and differentiating within ourselves, for you to conclude that is abandoning my guru and rehit says way more about your intelligence than my faith.

Your ignorance is both amusing and shocking.

When I met my guru at the end of his life I will do so with a clear conscience that I have followed his teaching in the large and got along in the wider world. Maybe you can whip your kirpan out and start waving it around to persuade him that you did to?

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MisterrSingh    2,802
1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

Negative posts about the government is because the situations they have created are negative , to say different is to lie ... you can do the fingers in the ears, eyes closed lalala-ing as much as you want , 30 years of Badal has brought Punjab's future to destruction, the repeated looting of the golak and gurdwara land , the non-pursual of water rights has lead to the current life-death struggle , yes there is no untainted potable water thus the populace are being poisoned by thing that's supposed to keep them alive . 

It was this portion of his post that irked me.   The rest has some merit.

 

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jkvlondon    3,409
6 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

It was this portion of his post that irked me.   The rest has some merit.

 

the rapid rise rise in cancer can be directly linked to the uranium pollution in the water from factories and coal usage and the xenoestrogens run-off from the farmlands . Because of lack of clean water our people and their neighbours are suffering . The pushing for the Anandpur Resolution or even being paid for the water could have meant setting up water purification plants at a minimum . But of course I shouldn't say the politicians should have done their job and ensured the success of their constituency and the health of their constituents . 

Badal's terms (four so far)

1970-1971 (president's rule imposed)

2007-2012

2012- present day 

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh   
Guest Jagsaw_Singh
6 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Certain 'Sikhs' might be backwards and unprogressive, but there absolutely nothing wrong with Sikhi. 

Lets all just hope by "certain Sikhs" you are referring to those from urban city Punjab and Delhi who not only regularly set their daughter in laws on fire but also marry and have children with their first cousins.   If that's not who you meant by "certain Sikhs", lets all just be extremely worried and afraid that your deeply held and well-known prejudice against a "certain" community is such that makes you see incest as not too bad a thing. Not a bad thing at all.

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jkvlondon    3,409
11 hours ago, Guest London jwan said:

Jkvlondon your post is flawed for many reasons, but I will highlight just a few :

The Sikhs on this board do not consider Christian converts to Sikhism as equals. Particularly as is the case in the USA, with many becoming Sikhs via kundalini yoga. The comments are primarily that they are linked to 3ho which is not sikhi etc etc. It is highly ignorant if you deny that.

when people have talked negatively about 3ho sikhs it is in direct response to evidence of beadbhi of gurbani i.e the dancing and jumping about to it , the twisting of Gurbani arth to justify yogic concepts and if you are not aware Yogi Harbhajan said he himself that Guru Gobind SIngh made Mistakes , that only white sikhs are pure sikhs even without amrit. 

No not all Christians converts are talked of harshly in fact many are liked intensely: I love my brother in faith The 'man in blue',  Sukhmani Kaur is well respected as a parcharik as well as our Spanish, portuguese, Russian and English,Welsh sisters and brothers . Generalising again 

And your comments in muslims is also flawed. The most populous Muslim country is actually Indonesia. That's not Arabic. And yes there are problems between shias and sunnis. But on the whole, they accept people if they accept Islam. Doesn't mean they all get along, but they are not smashing up their own mosques, lying around in mecca high on heroin.

 

  I didn't say the arabs were the most populous but the structuring of the faith ensures only the Arabs are highers up the rest are lesser so it is not a one tier system. Mohammed never appointed a royal family but the Quresh and Sauds invented themselves as such.. Wahabism is a major blight on the faith as its influence is causing many to become fascistic in outlook.

Apart from that, it is the sign of a <banned word filter activated> and of low intelligence to label an opposing view as BS. Explain why on matrimonials people are looking for "jatt girl" and "jatt boy"?? Explain why people need to specify that they are jatt at all? 

My folks  never did for any of us , neither did many of our family friends but I guess that's because we are an oddity because apparently EVERYONE DOES IT. The main reason is because they are deluded and are not sikhs by insulting Guru Gobind SIngh ji's amrit as Pani ... they should have sharam  , a clean shaven 'whatever jaat' sikh is an oxymoron 

And whilst you write that it has been declared that gurdwaras should not differentiate in the baits of dharam, GURU GOBIND SINGH JI himself declared that caste will not apply but it still does.......

Guru Pita ji handed US the reins and told us to take his message forward the fault lies with us if it is not actioned .

 

I take it you consider me to be a "modern" sikh that's changing sikhi. Well you know nothing about me, what I believe our about my beliefs, but I can tell you, sitting there as a disaffected community believing that the world is against them and that their own sikh jath are less Sikhs because they trim their beards, eat Langar at a table, or girls wearing make up - is an idiotic, false way to live in the world. Is nothing about changing sikhi, believe what ever you like, but internal struggles will cause the community to become an irrelevant minority. And where have I disobeyed my guru on every turn, you self righteous, hypocritical imbecile?

I find the faults within myself not the Guru's sikhiya ... I blame us as a whole  but strive to teach the next generation better whilst acting towards improving what I can now . I wouldn't know about your status because you came across as being anti everything ... maybe you are maybe you are not  Makes no diff I still have to do what I am Meant to.

 

Quote

And while you talk of roman Catholic abuse in the church, are you aware of previous abuse in the gurdwaras? Google it. What's your point?

I am pointing out all faiths are undergoing pressures due to kalyug mentality and I am aware abuse happens in all faiths but you think Christianity and Islam are immune from internal strife, please don't imagine untruths. and try to make out SIKHI is the only faith with problems 

You mention that I have my fingers in me ears, but to the contrary is clearly you that has your dirty cuchay shoved in your ears. Badal is a sikh. And the looting of golak etc is under his watch. But in your small mind, he is clearly not sikh.

Badal has not even managed to keep to the definition of sikh in the Sikh Rehit Maryada , he always doing bhut pooja , visiting pakhandi babey etc etc, He has done his best to harm his fellow sikhs , including false imprisonment, stealing land, and even murder . He has been declared Tankaiya so technically no he is not a sikh . 

And education is not incompatible with rehit or sikhi. Only a fool would believe that. And by inferring from my initial post where I stated that we should not been kirpan waving maniacs criticising and differentiating within ourselves, for you to conclude that is abandoning my guru and rehit says way more about your intelligence than my faith. 
Obviously you are not polite enough to answer the question I asked , I never said anything about mutual exclusivity that's in your head . Gursikhs are expected to be vidhvaan.

You clearly have a fascination for painting amritdhari sikhs as maniacs when they are not , Rehitvaan sikhs would not attack anyone ... Sure anyone can push and shove and shout but does that mean that ALL sikhs are like that , events involving a handfuls of hotheads are being used as tool to condemn millions and you seem to want to propogate the generalisation.

 

When I met my guru at the end of his life I will do so with a clear conscience that I have followed his teaching in the large and got along in the wider world. Maybe you can whip your kirpan out and start waving it around to persuade him that you did to?

enjoy your life , glad I made you smile ... 

 

 

Edited by jkvlondon

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jkvlondon    3,409
33 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

What was your answer to this?

sorry I've underlined my answers but I feel he's not going be happy with anything , he seems determined to portray his analysis of amritdhari people a certain way. Oh well, I asked him what he meant by educated sikh but he could not clarify whether it was only world ways or in terms of sikhi  (not discounting the option of both or neither). 

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StarStriker    1,007
11 hours ago, Guest London jwan said:

 Doesn't mean they all get along, but they are not smashing up their own mosques

.....tell me ur kidding right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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