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Sikhi becoming backward and non progressive


Guest London jwaan
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Guest London jwan

Finally! Not2cool2argue, thank you for a balanced non fanatical, intelligent post. Seriously.

Whilst I disagree on a couple of points, and that's fine, on the whole I respect your progressive, intelligent post in all seriousness.

Jkvlondon, your silence is deafening. So was maharajah ranjit Singh a sikh in your view? If so, how come given that he had multiple wives consecutively some of which were Hindu? Surely "Beadbi" according to your definitions?

If not, what was he? 

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1 hour ago, Guest London jwan said:

Finally! Not2cool2argue, thank you for a balanced non fanatical, intelligent post. Seriously.

Whilst I disagree on a couple of points, and that's fine, on the whole I respect your progressive, intelligent post in all seriousness.

Jkvlondon, your silence is deafening. So was maharajah ranjit Singh a sikh in your view? If so, how come given that he had multiple wives consecutively some of which were Hindu? Surely "Beadbi" according to your definitions?

If not, what was he? 

if you know your history :

you know the sikh kaum considered him a tankiya for Marrying a muslim dancing girl, For which Akali Phula Singh was prepared to carry out the punishment of whipping him under the orders of the Akal Takht  when he presented himself.

You know he disregarded Guru Sahiban's warnings to not embellish the Harmandir Sahib with maya  Some people read it as desire to show love for Sikhi ...but surely following Guru Sahiban's wishes and financing the spread of parchaar would do the same . 

You know that he had SLAVE girls which no sikh ever had and Guru Nanak Dev ji was totally against , some who commited satti thinking they would go to swarag i.e. superstition.

He drank sharab and according to accounts did opium

so you tell me was he a sikh or a king from a family of sikhs? If we are saying we agree with Bhai Gurdas that a Guru Says and a Sikh does 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

I agree these r problems...but there has to be a distinction between panjabi problems and sikh problems...tho yhesr days they r so entwined it hardly matters

Are u saying that we let anyone claim they r sikh without following sikhi?

I think we need more precise definition to define n describe ppl. Like islamists vs isis vs muslims.

If u want to be a mona sikh, no idol worship, no caste n do at least mool mantar daily. If doin sewa at gurudwara, dont have eaten meat that day.

If sehajdhari sikh, be vegetarian, do japji sahib n simran daily, no worshipping idos or faith in other religions.

If kesdhari sikh, then the above plus rehraas sahib 

If amritdhari then full rehit

And we shud have heirarchy, based on commitment to rehit and length of nitnem

 This way if someome claims to be sikh then at least they will know where they fit n there wil be some rules to follow. Also we can make caste n fanticide the two things that can make u not sikh. 

About the unrealistic sikhs, life and time r great teachers. The obese girls will learn to tell the truth n settle for less. As will the short girls and the uneducated boys. As time passes n they keep gettin rejected and cant find partners to their exact specifications, they will have to settle for less.

Ofc this shows the materialistic ideology running through the panjabi/sikh psyche. Where wealth, looks, and status matter more than faith, values, and the environment. But as ppl learn money will not buy happiness, they will learn or their children will after having suffered. It might be too late for panjab tho.This materialistic culture has destroyed the land, the youth, and SGPC. But ppl r hopefully fed up with Badal and will make AAP win. 

Though most ppl r wrong to blame Badal exclusively for these conditions. And Badal is a sikh. If he had to get dirty in politics n go beg deras for votes, it dont make him nonSikh. Badal is providing wat the ppl want. In a documentary about water, it said that panjabis r using subsidized electricity to pump increasing amounts of water n decreasing water table at alarming rate.

And why did Badal provide free electricity for farmers to destroy water table? Cuz farmers wanted that. Ofc the Anandpur resolution n water rights could help. But we lost that war. Noway a mere voted politician can get that concession from central govt. 

So if we want panjab to succeed, we need someone who doesnt only have farmers or Sikhs interests at heart. We need a wilier, dirtier politician who can get things done. Without being labeled anti sikh every other day. Maybe AAP can do that

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bro , The Badal admin HAD TO provide free electricity as they knew there was no way they were going to get money from the farmers who were already struggling against the lack of water , as they say you can't get a gallon out of a pint pot. I say he's a non-sikh because he has gone against the oldest rule in the book , bhra-maar ... Guru ji said himself that one sikh who kills another is not a sikh ... whether he does by his own hand or through his minions it's one thing. How many sikh farmers have commited suicide? how many extra-juidicial police executions on his watch? How many cancer victims ? How many drug related deaths from his family's dealings?

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Guest London jwan

Jagsaw Singh,

Whilst my comprehensive reply to your ignorant post was moderated out by the mods, I would like to point out that lazily copying and pasting your rambling nonsense about inferiority complexes from an entirely different thread on February 1st 

 

Thank you 

 

Mod Edit: Come on bro. On one side you make some good points about toxicity of Punjabis in the diaspora and then you spit toxicity. Keep it objective...

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Guest London jwan
42 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

if you know your history :

you know the sikh kaum considered him a tankiya for Marrying a muslim dancing girl, For which Akali Phula Singh was prepared to carry out the punishment of whipping him under the orders of the Akal Takht  when he presented himself.

You know he disregarded Guru Sahiban's warnings to not embellish the Harmandir Sahib with maya  Some people read it as desire to show love for Sikhi ...but surely following Guru Sahiban's wishes and financing the spread of parchaar would do the same . 

You know that he had SLAVE girls which no sikh ever had and Guru Nanak Dev ji was totally against , some who commited satti thinking they would go to swarag i.e. superstition.

He drank sharab and according to accounts did opium

so you tell me was he a sikh or a king from a family of sikhs? If we are saying we agree with Bhai Gurdas that a Guru Says and a Sikh does 

 

 

So for the avoidance of doubt jkv, and in summary, seeing as you are unable to answer a simple yes or no question without losing it back to me, what you are saying is that maharaja Ranjit Singh was actually not Sikh? Nice one. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Guest London jwan said:

So for the avoidance of doubt jkv, and in summary, seeing as you are unable to answer a simple yes or no question without losing it back to me, what you are saying is that maharaja Ranjit Singh was actually not Sikh? Nice one. 

 

I think he was a good administrator and did well to keep his subjects happy  but he did too many things which were definitely not sikh in spirit or action . It was clear what I said only you would have asked for a reasons I gave you a fair few ...

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
5 hours ago, Guest London jwan said:

Jagsaw Singh,

Whilst my comprehensive reply to your ignorant post was moderated out by the mods, I would like to point out that lazily copying and pasting your rambling nonsense about inferiority complexes from an entirely different thread on February 1st 

 

Thank you 

 

Mod Edit: Come on bro. On one side you make some good points about toxicity of Punjabis in the diaspora and then you spit toxicity. Keep it objective...

The fact that I needed to re-paste my previous message about certain <banned word filter activated> Sikhs having an inferiority complex about 'fighting in the gurdwara' should tell you how little you understand the first time around as well as giving a good indication of the dire level of your inferiority complex.

The fact that I needed to re-paste my previous message about certain <banned word filter activated> Sikhs having such a lack of knowledge about their own religion that they confuse abrahamic and bhuddist ideals of serene and quiet places of worship as their own should tell you how litle you understand the first time around as well as giving a good indication of what a laugable travesty it is for a person with zero knowledge about 'Sikhism' to be lecturing 'Sikhs' on 'Sikhism' on a 'Sikh' forum.  Whoever you are Guest London Jawan, it is clear that one could easily replace you with any one of the billion Indian Hindus on this planet.and none of us would know the difference. You are them and they are you.

Tip: If you want to seriously push the idea of 'progressivenes' among Sikhs you need to separate yourself from the official Hindu India line that you firmly follow and embrace the idea that the aversion to free-thought and critical thinking, our destruction of the environment (which Gurbani tells us is Waheguru) ,cult of personality, self-absorbed parcharaks, sanctioned pursuit of personal wealth and rules and regulations drawn up by mere men in contradiction of our Gurus' teachings is what is keeping us as a community back(wards).  For your present point of view, we could all just read the Hindustan Times or Indian Express and get that viewpoint and probably get it better articulated and with a bit of personality.

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Guest London jwan
11 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

I think he was a good administrator and did well to keep his subjects happy  but he did too many things which were definitely not sikh in spirit or action . It was clear what I said only you would have asked for a reasons I gave you a fair few ...

Actually no. What you said was not clear, it was essentially a copy paste of https://www.telegraphindia.com/1100307/jsp/7days/story_12187144.jsp

And rather than give a Yes or no, you deflected the question back to me. For the avoidance of doubt, yes I believe maharajah ranjit Singh, the maharajah of the sikh Kingdom was sikh. I dint agree with the fact that he had multiple wives, but that does not make him non-sikh to me. It means he made personal choices that I wouldn't.

Once again, are your saying he wasn't sikh?

A simple Yes or no will suffice rather than a tony Blair type answer......

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6 hours ago, Guest London jwan said:

Actually no. What you said was not clear, it was essentially a copy paste of https://www.telegraphindia.com/1100307/jsp/7days/story_12187144.jsp

And rather than give a Yes or no, you deflected the question back to me. For the avoidance of doubt, yes I believe maharajah ranjit Singh, the maharajah of the sikh Kingdom was sikh. I dint agree with the fact that he had multiple wives, but that does not make him non-sikh to me. It means he made personal choices that I wouldn't.

Once again, are your saying he wasn't sikh?

A simple Yes or no will suffice rather than a tony Blair type answer......

I didn't read that particular article so no copy paste involved just knowledge from other sources including memoirs of his generals .  Guru Gobind SIngh said himself if a sikh marries and/or has carnal knowledge of a muslim woman he stops being a sikh . Both Guru Teg Bahadur ji and Guru Gobind SIngh ji told sikhs to have one woman and stay true to her until she passes , to never go into the bed of another woman even in a dream ....so how it even possible to recouncile the massive disobedience? You cannot, no one can he made marriages and still had illicit relations with dancing women . THAT is Bujjar Kurehit

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