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Sikhi becoming backward and non progressive


Guest London jwaan
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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
6 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Certain 'Sikhs' might be backwards and unprogressive, but there absolutely nothing wrong with Sikhi. 

Lets all just hope by "certain Sikhs" you are referring to those from urban city Punjab and Delhi who not only regularly set their daughter in laws on fire but also marry and have children with their first cousins.   If that's not who you meant by "certain Sikhs", lets all just be extremely worried and afraid that your deeply held and well-known prejudice against a "certain" community is such that makes you see incest as not too bad a thing. Not a bad thing at all.

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11 hours ago, Guest London jwan said:

Jkvlondon your post is flawed for many reasons, but I will highlight just a few :

The Sikhs on this board do not consider Christian converts to Sikhism as equals. Particularly as is the case in the USA, with many becoming Sikhs via kundalini yoga. The comments are primarily that they are linked to 3ho which is not sikhi etc etc. It is highly ignorant if you deny that.

when people have talked negatively about 3ho sikhs it is in direct response to evidence of beadbhi of gurbani i.e the dancing and jumping about to it , the twisting of Gurbani arth to justify yogic concepts and if you are not aware Yogi Harbhajan said he himself that Guru Gobind SIngh made Mistakes , that only white sikhs are pure sikhs even without amrit. 

No not all Christians converts are talked of harshly in fact many are liked intensely: I love my brother in faith The 'man in blue',  Sukhmani Kaur is well respected as a parcharik as well as our Spanish, portuguese, Russian and English,Welsh sisters and brothers . Generalising again 

And your comments in muslims is also flawed. The most populous Muslim country is actually Indonesia. That's not Arabic. And yes there are problems between shias and sunnis. But on the whole, they accept people if they accept Islam. Doesn't mean they all get along, but they are not smashing up their own mosques, lying around in mecca high on heroin.

 

  I didn't say the arabs were the most populous but the structuring of the faith ensures only the Arabs are highers up the rest are lesser so it is not a one tier system. Mohammed never appointed a royal family but the Quresh and Sauds invented themselves as such.. Wahabism is a major blight on the faith as its influence is causing many to become fascistic in outlook.

Apart from that, it is the sign of a <banned word filter activated> and of low intelligence to label an opposing view as BS. Explain why on matrimonials people are looking for "jatt girl" and "jatt boy"?? Explain why people need to specify that they are jatt at all? 

My folks  never did for any of us , neither did many of our family friends but I guess that's because we are an oddity because apparently EVERYONE DOES IT. The main reason is because they are deluded and are not sikhs by insulting Guru Gobind SIngh ji's amrit as Pani ... they should have sharam  , a clean shaven 'whatever jaat' sikh is an oxymoron 

And whilst you write that it has been declared that gurdwaras should not differentiate in the baits of dharam, GURU GOBIND SINGH JI himself declared that caste will not apply but it still does.......

Guru Pita ji handed US the reins and told us to take his message forward the fault lies with us if it is not actioned .

 

I take it you consider me to be a "modern" sikh that's changing sikhi. Well you know nothing about me, what I believe our about my beliefs, but I can tell you, sitting there as a disaffected community believing that the world is against them and that their own sikh jath are less Sikhs because they trim their beards, eat Langar at a table, or girls wearing make up - is an idiotic, false way to live in the world. Is nothing about changing sikhi, believe what ever you like, but internal struggles will cause the community to become an irrelevant minority. And where have I disobeyed my guru on every turn, you self righteous, hypocritical imbecile?

I find the faults within myself not the Guru's sikhiya ... I blame us as a whole  but strive to teach the next generation better whilst acting towards improving what I can now . I wouldn't know about your status because you came across as being anti everything ... maybe you are maybe you are not  Makes no diff I still have to do what I am Meant to.

 

Quote

And while you talk of roman Catholic abuse in the church, are you aware of previous abuse in the gurdwaras? Google it. What's your point?

I am pointing out all faiths are undergoing pressures due to kalyug mentality and I am aware abuse happens in all faiths but you think Christianity and Islam are immune from internal strife, please don't imagine untruths. and try to make out SIKHI is the only faith with problems 

You mention that I have my fingers in me ears, but to the contrary is clearly you that has your dirty cuchay shoved in your ears. Badal is a sikh. And the looting of golak etc is under his watch. But in your small mind, he is clearly not sikh.

Badal has not even managed to keep to the definition of sikh in the Sikh Rehit Maryada , he always doing bhut pooja , visiting pakhandi babey etc etc, He has done his best to harm his fellow sikhs , including false imprisonment, stealing land, and even murder . He has been declared Tankaiya so technically no he is not a sikh . 

And education is not incompatible with rehit or sikhi. Only a fool would believe that. And by inferring from my initial post where I stated that we should not been kirpan waving maniacs criticising and differentiating within ourselves, for you to conclude that is abandoning my guru and rehit says way more about your intelligence than my faith. 
Obviously you are not polite enough to answer the question I asked , I never said anything about mutual exclusivity that's in your head . Gursikhs are expected to be vidhvaan.

You clearly have a fascination for painting amritdhari sikhs as maniacs when they are not , Rehitvaan sikhs would not attack anyone ... Sure anyone can push and shove and shout but does that mean that ALL sikhs are like that , events involving a handfuls of hotheads are being used as tool to condemn millions and you seem to want to propogate the generalisation.

 

When I met my guru at the end of his life I will do so with a clear conscience that I have followed his teaching in the large and got along in the wider world. Maybe you can whip your kirpan out and start waving it around to persuade him that you did to?

enjoy your life , glad I made you smile ... 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

What was your answer to this?

sorry I've underlined my answers but I feel he's not going be happy with anything , he seems determined to portray his analysis of amritdhari people a certain way. Oh well, I asked him what he meant by educated sikh but he could not clarify whether it was only world ways or in terms of sikhi  (not discounting the option of both or neither). 

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5 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Lets all just hope by "certain Sikhs" you are referring to those from urban city Punjab and Delhi who not only regularly set their daughter in laws on fire but also marry and have children with their first cousins.   If that's not who you meant by "certain Sikhs", lets all just be extremely worried and afraid that your deeply held and well-known prejudice against a "certain" community is such that makes you see incest as not too bad a thing. Not a bad thing at all.

y dont u just create an account rather than comin back as a guest? I thought u sed u were never to come back on here/or u had written ur last goodbye etc. Geezer just make an account man, im sure i aint only who has missed ur p.o.v on topics.

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Guest london jwan
1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:
11 hours ago, Guest London jwan said:

when people have talked negatively about 3ho sikhs it is in direct response to evidence of beadbhi of gurbani i.e the dancing and jumping about to it , the twisting of Gurbani arth to justify yogic concepts and if you are not aware Yogi Harbhajan said he himself that Guru Gobind SIngh made Mistakes , that only white sikhs are pure sikhs even without amrit. 

No not all Christians converts are talked of harshly in fact many are liked intensely: I love my brother in faith The 'man in blue',  Sukhmani Kaur is well respected as a parcharik as well as our Spanish, portuguese, Russian and English,Welsh sisters and brothers . Generalising again ?

So what you are saying is, that white converts who read baani, wear turbans, believe in the Gurus, do Kirtan are not Sikhs because they are part of 3HO? Really? Who are you or anybody else to judge that? And as far as other converts are concerned, would you marry your daughter to one? Its those prejudices that Im highlighting. Pointing fingers at the rest of the community but believing yourself to be the ideal Sikh. And its these petty prejudices that hold back the community from progressing and causes unnecessary divisions.

But on a wider point, using your logic, Maharajah Ranjit Singh was not Sikh. He had multiple wives, some hindu, some who committed sati when he was cremated. Im using your logic, which to me is just nonsense. But to you, just another "Punjabi" partaking in beadbi no doubt

 

My folks  never did for any of us , neither did many of our family friends but I guess that's because we are an oddity because apparently EVERYONE DOES IT. The main reason is because they are deluded and are not sikhs by insulting Guru Gobind SIngh ji's amrit as Pani ... they should have sharam  , a clean shaven 'whatever jaat' sikh is an oxymoron 

Well that's just idiotic, go and get a matrimonial list from ANY gurdwara and put your denying eye to the column that specifies Jatt, Pathwari, Tarkhan etc. But obviously because you never did that I must be hallucinating as it doesn't happen because you know better..........

 

Guru Pita ji handed US the reins and told us to take his message forward the fault lies with us if it is not actioned .

Sorry but that answer is a total cop out. My entire point is that the community is holding itself back. You say no gurdwaras based on caste, I say no caste as ordered by the Guru, still happening nonetheless. How does your answer above address that??

 

I find the faults within myself not the Guru's sikhiya ... I blame us as a whole  but strive to teach the next generation better whilst acting towards improving what I can now . I wouldn't know about your status because you came across as being anti everything ... maybe you are maybe you are not  Makes no diff I still have to do what I am Meant to.

And what are you teaching the next generation? Intolerance? That people who worship the guru are not worthy because they wear make up? Trim their beards? If someone diagrees with you, whip out a kirpan and start waving it around? Dont like the gurdwaras actions then go and smash it up? And it is a sign of total ignorance to label that I am anti everything based on the fact that I consider that Sikhs need to come together as a community to progress rather than remain divided and backward and eventually become a minority irrelevance. Youre free to live in the jungles like in Guruji's time imagining that you are still being persecuted by Mughals.

 

Quote

And while you talk of roman Catholic abuse in the church, are you aware of previous abuse in the gurdwaras? Google it. What's your point?

I am pointing out all faiths are undergoing pressures due to kalyug mentality and I am aware abuse happens in all faiths but you think Christianity and Islam are immune from internal strife, please don't imagine untruths. and try to make out SIKHI is the only faith with problems 

You make no sense at all. Where exactly did I say Sikhi is the only faith with problems?? Please quote me. And also I don't care about problems in other faiths I am concerned about problems in mine. Despite the fact that in your self righteous mind I don't even belong to my faith. If youre so self righteous maybe contact the akal takht and nominate yourself as the 11th guru?

Badal has not even managed to keep to the definition of sikh in the Sikh Rehit Maryada , he always doing bhut pooja , visiting pakhandi babey etc etc, He has done his best to harm his fellow sikhs , including false imprisonment, stealing land, and even murder . He has been declared Tankaiya so technically no he is not a sikh . 

 

Personally I think Badal is almost single handedly responsible for the destruction of Punjab as we know it over the past 30 years. But again who are you to say he is not Sikh? Or is your logic that no Sikh commits crime, fraud etc? Go and have a look in Winson Green, loads in there, read the papers.

 

You clearly have a fascination for painting amritdhari sikhs as maniacs when they are not , Rehitvaan sikhs would not attack anyone ... Sure anyone can push and shove and shout but does that mean that ALL sikhs are like that , events involving a handfuls of hotheads are being used as tool to condemn millions and you seem to want to propogate the generalisation.

Really, I'm propagating? nice one. Have a look at this:

A few hotheads??? That is INSIDE the Darbar Sahib. Total embarrassment to the Sikh faith and giving ammunition to those who criticise the Sikh faith as ignorant,  violent maniacs. My whole point is that actions determine how we are perceived in the modern world. I don't advocate changing any aspect of the religion but the community's behaviour and perception. Live in denial, in your perfect self righteous way, these problems are real.

enjoy your life , glad I made you smile ... 

Yup, and you enjoy yours, but yes you certainly did that. I will give you that

 

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
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A few hotheads??? That is INSIDE the Darbar Sahib. Total embarrassment to the Sikh faith and giving ammunition to those who criticise the Sikh faith as ignorant,  violent maniacs.

Guest London Jawan, given how you've posted a video of a fight at the Golden Temple, you've revealed 2 things about you:

1) You have a very serious and worrying inferiority complex

2) You know so very little about your own religion that you confuse abrahamic place of worship ideals, i.e quietness, serenity, peacefulness, as your own.

Read this:

We need to stop having this inferiority complex about "fighting in our gurdwaras. It happens in every major faith group and none of the others make a song or dance about it or imagine it is the end of days because of it even though they, unlike us, have a place of worship concept that dictates those place be serene, quiet places whereas our concept of it is as a place where we gather, fully armed and prepare our bodies and minds for the art of war. Let me give you an example of how we keep crying and feeling embarrassed about the littlest of things while the Christians don't seem all that bothered about regular fisticuffs in their most holy of holy's.  The Church in Bethlehem where Jesus was born. There's 2 different Christian groups that control the Church and because the priests and religious leaders have regularly been having fist fights inside the crypt for the last 70 years they have had to give the keys to the ancient doors to a local Muslim family in order to keep the peace. So, each day, when its time to open the door, the different Christian groups have to go to the Muslim family - seperately and away from each other because all the priests start punching each other if they are within 2 feet of the other - and the Muslim opens the doors, and likewise locks them at night. 2 years ago, Jesus' crypt was opened and cleaned for the first time in 70 years. The motion to clean the crypt was passed 70 years ago but it took 70 years to actually go about doing it because each time they set a date previously the day turned into an all-out street fight with fists, feet, chairs and rocks between the priests. So, every single day, Christian priests in the most holy church of their religion, punch each other, kick each other, throw chairs and tables at each other and throw rocks and stones at each other. But when have you ever heard a Christian have an inferiority complex about it and say "oh my god....this is terrible....it's so embarrassing.....its making us look bad....what will the Hindus and Sikhs think about us?" :ehhh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shFA_H8e11E

 

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Guest Jacfsing2
10 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

sorry I've underlined my answers but I feel he's not going be happy with anything , he seems determined to portray his analysis of amritdhari people a certain way. Oh well, I asked him what he meant by educated sikh but he could not clarify whether it was only world ways or in terms of sikhi  (not discounting the option of both or neither). 

If you asked Daas, I'd say he's too ignorant to actually open-up, compared to the Non-Sikhs; our people are like Devti's and Angels. 

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On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Guest London jwaan said:

 

It is ironic that a lot of our community believe that demonstrating in gurdwaras, whipping out kirpans at any opportunity, enjoying any excuse to rebel, is something positive. Its not. Once again it makes the community look like uneducated, under achieving idiots. And make as many comparisons to gurus standing up to much also as you like, it's not the same at all.

Just read the posts in this board, beadbi, jatts criticising tarkhans, anti government posts etc. Not one positive post. No real sikh achievements to speak of.

Look at the matrimonial lists in gurdwaras: seeking "jatts". "Pathwari" clean shaven, amridhari etc. 5 feet tall girls seeking 6'4 guys. Fat guys seeking size 8 girls, "slim" girls being morbidly obese in reality, people with half an hnd working in a shop seeking consultant doctors, investment bankers etc. What meaningless nonsense! And it is precisely this that makes a adbi, criticising each other, and being increasing intolerant, because soon enough there won't be enough numbers to matter.

And not that it matters, I am an educated "jatts" professional for anyone that cars about such nonsense. I am a sikh and that's all I need to define myself.

I agree these r problems...but there has to be a distinction between panjabi problems and sikh problems...tho yhesr days they r so entwined it hardly matters

Are u saying that we let anyone claim they r sikh without following sikhi?

I think we need more precise definition to define n describe ppl. Like islamists vs isis vs muslims.

If u want to be a mona sikh, no idol worship, no caste n do at least mool mantar daily. If doin sewa at gurudwara, dont have eaten meat that day.

If sehajdhari sikh, be vegetarian, do japji sahib n simran daily, no worshipping idos or faith in other religions.

If kesdhari sikh, then the above plus rehraas sahib 

If amritdhari then full rehit

And we shud have heirarchy, based on commitment to rehit and length of nitnem

 This way if someome claims to be sikh then at least they will know where they fit n there wil be some rules to follow. Also we can make caste n fanticide the two things that can make u not sikh. 

About the unrealistic sikhs, life and time r great teachers. The obese girls will learn to tell the truth n settle for less. As will the short girls and the uneducated boys. As time passes n they keep gettin rejected and cant find partners to their exact specifications, they will have to settle for less.

Ofc this shows the materialistic ideology running through the panjabi/sikh psyche. Where wealth, looks, and status matter more than faith, values, and the environment. But as ppl learn money will not buy happiness, they will learn or their children will after having suffered. It might be too late for panjab tho.This materialistic culture has destroyed the land, the youth, and SGPC. But ppl r hopefully fed up with Badal and will make AAP win. 

Though most ppl r wrong to blame Badal exclusively for these conditions. And Badal is a sikh. If he had to get dirty in politics n go beg deras for votes, it dont make him nonSikh. Badal is providing wat the ppl want. In a documentary about water, it said that panjabis r using subsidized electricity to pump increasing amounts of water n decreasing water table at alarming rate.

And why did Badal provide free electricity for farmers to destroy water table? Cuz farmers wanted that. Ofc the Anandpur resolution n water rights could help. But we lost that war. Noway a mere voted politician can get that concession from central govt. 

So if we want panjab to succeed, we need someone who doesnt only have farmers or Sikhs interests at heart. We need a wilier, dirtier politician who can get things done. Without being labeled anti sikh every other day. Maybe AAP can do that

 

 

 

 

 

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