Guest London jwaan

Sikhi becoming backward and non progressive

41 posts in this topic

Just reading through the posts on this board, watching the sikh TV channels and reading what is happening in punjab, leads me to the conclusion that at a higher level, our community is set for destruction, largely through our own stupidity. Sikhs are our own worst enemies.

If you look at other communities, people are getting on to progress themselves. Ours? Becoming more intolerant, militant, discriminatory even with each other. 

It is ironic that a lot of our community believe that demonstrating in gurdwaras, whipping out kirpans at any opportunity, enjoying any excuse to rebel, is something positive. Its not. Once again it makes the community look like uneducated, under achieving idiots. And make as many comparisons to gurus standing up to much also as you like, it's not the same at all.

Just read the posts in this board, beadbi, jatts criticising tarkhans, anti government posts etc. Not one positive post. No real sikh achievements to speak of.

Look at the matrimonial lists in gurdwaras: seeking "jatts". "Pathwari" clean shaven, amridhari etc. 5 feet tall girls seeking 6'4 guys. Fat guys seeking size 8 girls, "slim" girls being morbidly obese in reality, people with half an hnd working in a shop seeking consultant doctors, investment bankers etc. What meaningless nonsense! And it is precisely this that makes a mockery of our religion, culture that is pushing educated young Sikhs away. The result will be dwindling numbers and eventual wipe out of our communities as we know them. 

Look at Christians, Muslims etc. Sure they have some different factions. But most important to them is that ultimately somebody belongs to the same faith. In ours? Jatts don't consider non jatts as Sikhs, non jatts consider jatts to be "behvkoof" amridharis consider monay to not be proper Sikhs, and the result is just a fractured community laughed at by the rest of the world destined to eventual wipe itself out.

And it gets progressively worse. Consider the case of Somerset Road and Smethwick gurdwaras in Birmingham. Now uneducated sikh gangsters have effectively taken control of the gurdwaras to loot the sangats donations! This is the sign of a community that is destructive. Unless things change rapidly, whip out as many kirpans as you like, our community will remain a joke on the world stage.

So keep reporting the beadbi, criticising each other, and being increasing intolerant, because soon enough there won't be enough numbers to matter.

And not that it matters, I am an educated "jatts" professional for anyone that cars about such nonsense. I am a sikh and that's all I need to define myself.

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Problems arise from perception, unless any of this is harming you or someone you know (who is seeking your help), then don't be bothered by these small issues. Follow Sikh dharma, and tell whatever you said here to someone who is following those things.

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The "educated young Sikh" in the West is as much a part of the long-term problem that will decimate us as a people, as the kirpan-waving, uncouth, status and wealth obsessed pendu. Two sides of the same coin, the difference being the EYS has deluded himself into believing he occupies some form of a higher moral ground that sets him apart from his so-called lessers. Both sides are serious causes for concern.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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Misterssingh, the delusions unfortunately I believe are yours. Particularly that you believe an educated sikh will decimate the community! Can you even read punjabi? Because most of our community can't I can tell you. I can because I bothered to learn. Have you ever meet a Chinese person that could read Chinese? Is not a question of occupying higher moral ground but a question of getting on in a progressive world, rather than imagining the world is against us, where whipping out a kirpan is the answer to everything.

Aside from that, the uneducated is what is the scourge of our community. That's what breeds idiocy like " the tarkhan gurdwara in Woolwich" (from a previous post). And the references to "punjabi" rather than sikh because every person believes they are the gurus true follower but everyone else is doing beadbi. 

And Preet, it's not harming me, but if you look at it from a higher level, the British sought loyalty from the Sikhs and rewarded them by dividing their land on their departure whilst master tarantula Singh was busy posing for photographs, jinna and the sulay convinced the British to hand over more than 50% off punjab. Hindus ran rings around the kirpan wavers and divided what was left into haryana and himachal. Now, every program on sikh TV is about 1984, this forum is full of beadbi reports. Sikhs are stereotyped as drunken lorry driving hooligans in India. 

Why would anyone care about an irrelevant community like that in the world stage? Look at badal - systematic looting of punjab, and the residents are too high on heroin to notice.

Ask yourself this : why are the minority Jews and Israel so relevant and the Sikhs not?

Is because at a lower level our community is full of hypocrisy, division, jealousy and on a direct path to destruction.

And the "spin" on this forum cracks me up. Meat and sharab in the LANGAR HALL. Really? Really? Nonsense. You mean in a community Hall owned by the gurdwara. Not that I'm condoning it, but that's hardly precise. Kind of a tabloid headline. On that subject, I recall reading some years ago where some idiots from our community went to Derby and created a disturbance. Daily mail headline? " Sikhs smash up their own temple"

Nice one.

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9 hours ago, Guest London jwaan said:

Just reading through the posts on this board, watching the sikh TV channels and reading what is happening in punjab, leads me to the conclusion that at a higher level, our community is set for destruction, largely through our own stupidity. Sikhs are our own worst enemies.

If you look at other communities, people are getting on to progress themselves. Ours? Becoming more intolerant, militant, discriminatory even with each other. 

It is ironic that a lot of our community believe that demonstrating in gurdwaras, whipping out kirpans at any opportunity, enjoying any excuse to rebel, is something positive. Its not. Once again it makes the community look like uneducated, under achieving idiots. And make as many comparisons to gurus standing up to much also as you like, it's not the same at all.

Just read the posts in this board, beadbi, jatts criticising tarkhans, anti government posts etc. Not one positive post. No real sikh achievements to speak of.

Look at the matrimonial lists in gurdwaras: seeking "jatts". "Pathwari" clean shaven, amridhari etc. 5 feet tall girls seeking 6'4 guys. Fat guys seeking size 8 girls, "slim" girls being morbidly obese in reality, people with half an hnd working in a shop seeking consultant doctors, investment bankers etc. What meaningless nonsense! And it is precisely this that makes a mockery of our religion, culture that is pushing educated young Sikhs away. The result will be dwindling numbers and eventual wipe out of our communities as we know them. 

Look at Christians, Muslims etc. Sure they have some different factions. But most important to them is that ultimately somebody belongs to the same faith. In ours? Jatts don't consider non jatts as Sikhs, non jatts consider jatts to be "behvkoof" amridharis consider monay to not be proper Sikhs, and the result is just a fractured community laughed at by the rest of the world destined to eventual wipe itself out.

And it gets progressively worse. Consider the case of Somerset Road and Smethwick gurdwaras in Birmingham. Now uneducated sikh gangsters have effectively taken control of the gurdwaras to loot the sangats donations! This is the sign of a community that is destructive. Unless things change rapidly, whip out as many kirpans as you like, our community will remain a joke on the world stage.

So keep reporting the beadbi, criticising each other, and being increasing intolerant, because soon enough there won't be enough numbers to matter.

And not that it matters, I am an educated "jatts" professional for anyone that cars about such nonsense. I am a sikh and that's all I need to define myself.

erm , muslims KILL each other because of a feud started a thousand years before their birth ...so NO they are not sane examples , they are openly racist ask about mistreatment of Indian and Pakistani muslim by Arab nation on Hajj , they have black and Chinese muslims so yes they are multiracial but they want annihilate their local culture and replace it with Arab culture . 

Christianity is in decline in its strongholds in the West because of the mistrust between the sangat and the church , the roman catholics abuse scandals keep coming and the coverups keep being uncovered horrifying and disgusting the sangat ...so many new converts to sikhi have come from catholic backgrounds .

Jatts don't believe other are sikhs ? what? I am of that ancestry but I embrace all as my brothers and sisters unless they are doing beadbhi of My Guru ji, you admit you are of the same ancestry so do YOU believe they are not ???  Don't generalise about such a major issue  because you are doing the harm of disunity by spreading such BS . In India the misbehaviour of not letting sangat in or accepting their Degh has been denounced in the Sarbat Khalsa and it has been announced that no gurdwara around the globe should discriminate on any basis least of all janam. 

Mate if you have a problem with the rehit that Guru Pita ji laid down for us that is between you and Him ,but you cannot disobey your Guru on every turn  and then say I believe in and serve Him so call me a sikh. That is being a hypocrite something sikhs are supposed to avoid like the plague...

Sikhi is perfect because it came from a perfect Guru, Akal Purakh ... Sikhi is never in danger  but the number of humans who want to live and use the label Sikh are not willing to put in the love and effort seem to be lowering in the Punjab . Worldwide sikhs are springing up in different countries all the time and ARE willing to learn something and bring it into their lives even if it's harder for them the reward being so great , which is the opposite attiude to 'modern' sikhs  they want to change sikhi to suit themselves. 

Negative posts about the government is because the situations they have created are negative , to say different is to lie ... you can do the fingers in the ears, eyes closed lalala-ing as much as you want , 30 years of Badal has brought Punjab's future to destruction, the repeated looting of the golak and gurdwara land , the non-pursual of water rights has lead to the current life-death struggle , yes there is no untainted potable water thus the populace are being poisoned by thing that's supposed to keep them alive . 

Just because fights have been staged (30 year anniversary of blue star comes to mind) and splashed everywhere in MSM so many times to defame sikhs doesn't mean it is true reflection of the situation . The reason for fights in western gurdwarey is the committee system , people who have zero knowledge or sikh rehit are being put in charge of gurdwarey and then tell granthis ,speakers, kathavachiks, kirtaniyas to not talk against daru, drugs , about taking amrit , becoming guru wale . because they want to be left in peace to rip off the golak for their own use . As soon as we return to Punj piare system or even Sabarah system where rehitvaan gursikhs are responsible to make sure the Gurdwara becomes a dharamshala, akharda,  again. 

EDucated sikhs: just what do mean people who have worldly gian only ? If they are not intelligent enough to work out that the message is Gurbani and spreading its love is the job, and not willing to work to that end what good is that 'education' . If lok lajja is making you guys abandon your gurdwarey , your rehit and Guru ji then I feel sad for you.

 

 

Edited by jkvlondon

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Sikhi becoming backward and non progressive

Certain 'Sikhs' might be backwards and unprogressive, but there absolutely nothing wrong with Sikhi. 

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"Just read the posts on this board. Not one positive post."

This post is banging yo!

It's very easy to focus on the negatives. But even within those negatives you can find positives if you have the eye to see them. There's nothing wrong with Sikhi my friend. Our community is a lot better off compared to others out there. To loosely translate a Punjabi saying, "two 'panday' do 'khadak' a little".

Edited by S4NGH

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Jkvlondon your post is flawed for many reasons, but I will highlight just a few :

The Sikhs on this board do not consider Christian converts to Sikhism as equals. Particularly as is the case in the USA, with many becoming Sikhs via kundalini yoga. The comments are primarily that they are linked to 3ho which is not sikhi etc etc. It is highly ignorant if you deny that.

And your comments in muslims is also flawed. The most populous Muslim country is actually Indonesia. That's not Arabic. And yes there are problems between shias and sunnis. But on the whole, they accept people if they accept Islam. Doesn't mean they all get along, but they are not smashing up their own mosques, lying around in mecca high on heroin.

Apart from that, it is the sign of a <banned word filter activated> and of low intelligence to label an opposing view as BS. Explain why on matrimonials people are looking for "jatt girl" and "jatt boy"?? Explain why people need to specify that they are jatt at all?

And whilst you write that it has been declared that gurdwaras should not differentiate in the baits of dharam, GURU GOBIND SINGH JI himself declared that caste will not apply but it still does.......

I take it you consider me to be a "modern" sikh that's changing sikhi. Well you know nothing about me, what I believe our about my beliefs, but I can tell you, sitting there as a disaffected community believing that the world is against them and that their own sikh jath are less Sikhs because they trim their beards, eat Langar at a table, or girls wearing make up - is an idiotic, false way to live in the world. Is nothing about changing sikhi, believe what ever you like, but internal struggles will cause the community to become an irrelevant minority. And where have I disobeyed my guru on every turn, you self righteous, hypocritical imbecile?

And while you talk of roman Catholic abuse in the church, are you aware of previous abuse in the gurdwaras? Google it. What's your point?

You mention that I have my fingers in me ears, but to the contrary is clearly you that has your dirty cuchay shoved in your ears. Badal is a sikh. And the looting of golak etc is under his watch. But in your small mind, he is clearly not sikh.

And education is not incompatible with rehit or sikhi. Only a fool would believe that. And by inferring from my initial post where I stated that we should not been kirpan waving maniacs criticising and differentiating within ourselves, for you to conclude that is abandoning my guru and rehit says way more about your intelligence than my faith.

Your ignorance is both amusing and shocking.

When I met my guru at the end of his life I will do so with a clear conscience that I have followed his teaching in the large and got along in the wider world. Maybe you can whip your kirpan out and start waving it around to persuade him that you did to?

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1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

Negative posts about the government is because the situations they have created are negative , to say different is to lie ... you can do the fingers in the ears, eyes closed lalala-ing as much as you want , 30 years of Badal has brought Punjab's future to destruction, the repeated looting of the golak and gurdwara land , the non-pursual of water rights has lead to the current life-death struggle , yes there is no untainted potable water thus the populace are being poisoned by thing that's supposed to keep them alive . 

It was this portion of his post that irked me.   The rest has some merit.

 

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6 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

It was this portion of his post that irked me.   The rest has some merit.

 

the rapid rise rise in cancer can be directly linked to the uranium pollution in the water from factories and coal usage and the xenoestrogens run-off from the farmlands . Because of lack of clean water our people and their neighbours are suffering . The pushing for the Anandpur Resolution or even being paid for the water could have meant setting up water purification plants at a minimum . But of course I shouldn't say the politicians should have done their job and ensured the success of their constituency and the health of their constituents . 

Badal's terms (four so far)

1970-1971 (president's rule imposed)

2007-2012

2012- present day 

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6 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Certain 'Sikhs' might be backwards and unprogressive, but there absolutely nothing wrong with Sikhi. 

Lets all just hope by "certain Sikhs" you are referring to those from urban city Punjab and Delhi who not only regularly set their daughter in laws on fire but also marry and have children with their first cousins.   If that's not who you meant by "certain Sikhs", lets all just be extremely worried and afraid that your deeply held and well-known prejudice against a "certain" community is such that makes you see incest as not too bad a thing. Not a bad thing at all.

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11 hours ago, Guest London jwan said:

Jkvlondon your post is flawed for many reasons, but I will highlight just a few :

The Sikhs on this board do not consider Christian converts to Sikhism as equals. Particularly as is the case in the USA, with many becoming Sikhs via kundalini yoga. The comments are primarily that they are linked to 3ho which is not sikhi etc etc. It is highly ignorant if you deny that.

when people have talked negatively about 3ho sikhs it is in direct response to evidence of beadbhi of gurbani i.e the dancing and jumping about to it , the twisting of Gurbani arth to justify yogic concepts and if you are not aware Yogi Harbhajan said he himself that Guru Gobind SIngh made Mistakes , that only white sikhs are pure sikhs even without amrit. 

No not all Christians converts are talked of harshly in fact many are liked intensely: I love my brother in faith The 'man in blue',  Sukhmani Kaur is well respected as a parcharik as well as our Spanish, portuguese, Russian and English,Welsh sisters and brothers . Generalising again 

And your comments in muslims is also flawed. The most populous Muslim country is actually Indonesia. That's not Arabic. And yes there are problems between shias and sunnis. But on the whole, they accept people if they accept Islam. Doesn't mean they all get along, but they are not smashing up their own mosques, lying around in mecca high on heroin.

 

  I didn't say the arabs were the most populous but the structuring of the faith ensures only the Arabs are highers up the rest are lesser so it is not a one tier system. Mohammed never appointed a royal family but the Quresh and Sauds invented themselves as such.. Wahabism is a major blight on the faith as its influence is causing many to become fascistic in outlook.

Apart from that, it is the sign of a <banned word filter activated> and of low intelligence to label an opposing view as BS. Explain why on matrimonials people are looking for "jatt girl" and "jatt boy"?? Explain why people need to specify that they are jatt at all? 

My folks  never did for any of us , neither did many of our family friends but I guess that's because we are an oddity because apparently EVERYONE DOES IT. The main reason is because they are deluded and are not sikhs by insulting Guru Gobind SIngh ji's amrit as Pani ... they should have sharam  , a clean shaven 'whatever jaat' sikh is an oxymoron 

And whilst you write that it has been declared that gurdwaras should not differentiate in the baits of dharam, GURU GOBIND SINGH JI himself declared that caste will not apply but it still does.......

Guru Pita ji handed US the reins and told us to take his message forward the fault lies with us if it is not actioned .

 

I take it you consider me to be a "modern" sikh that's changing sikhi. Well you know nothing about me, what I believe our about my beliefs, but I can tell you, sitting there as a disaffected community believing that the world is against them and that their own sikh jath are less Sikhs because they trim their beards, eat Langar at a table, or girls wearing make up - is an idiotic, false way to live in the world. Is nothing about changing sikhi, believe what ever you like, but internal struggles will cause the community to become an irrelevant minority. And where have I disobeyed my guru on every turn, you self righteous, hypocritical imbecile?

I find the faults within myself not the Guru's sikhiya ... I blame us as a whole  but strive to teach the next generation better whilst acting towards improving what I can now . I wouldn't know about your status because you came across as being anti everything ... maybe you are maybe you are not  Makes no diff I still have to do what I am Meant to.

 

Quote

And while you talk of roman Catholic abuse in the church, are you aware of previous abuse in the gurdwaras? Google it. What's your point?

I am pointing out all faiths are undergoing pressures due to kalyug mentality and I am aware abuse happens in all faiths but you think Christianity and Islam are immune from internal strife, please don't imagine untruths. and try to make out SIKHI is the only faith with problems 

You mention that I have my fingers in me ears, but to the contrary is clearly you that has your dirty cuchay shoved in your ears. Badal is a sikh. And the looting of golak etc is under his watch. But in your small mind, he is clearly not sikh.

Badal has not even managed to keep to the definition of sikh in the Sikh Rehit Maryada , he always doing bhut pooja , visiting pakhandi babey etc etc, He has done his best to harm his fellow sikhs , including false imprisonment, stealing land, and even murder . He has been declared Tankaiya so technically no he is not a sikh . 

And education is not incompatible with rehit or sikhi. Only a fool would believe that. And by inferring from my initial post where I stated that we should not been kirpan waving maniacs criticising and differentiating within ourselves, for you to conclude that is abandoning my guru and rehit says way more about your intelligence than my faith. 
Obviously you are not polite enough to answer the question I asked , I never said anything about mutual exclusivity that's in your head . Gursikhs are expected to be vidhvaan.

You clearly have a fascination for painting amritdhari sikhs as maniacs when they are not , Rehitvaan sikhs would not attack anyone ... Sure anyone can push and shove and shout but does that mean that ALL sikhs are like that , events involving a handfuls of hotheads are being used as tool to condemn millions and you seem to want to propogate the generalisation.

 

When I met my guru at the end of his life I will do so with a clear conscience that I have followed his teaching in the large and got along in the wider world. Maybe you can whip your kirpan out and start waving it around to persuade him that you did to?

enjoy your life , glad I made you smile ... 

 

 

Edited by jkvlondon

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33 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

What was your answer to this?

sorry I've underlined my answers but I feel he's not going be happy with anything , he seems determined to portray his analysis of amritdhari people a certain way. Oh well, I asked him what he meant by educated sikh but he could not clarify whether it was only world ways or in terms of sikhi  (not discounting the option of both or neither). 

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11 hours ago, Guest London jwan said:

 Doesn't mean they all get along, but they are not smashing up their own mosques

.....tell me ur kidding right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Lets all just hope by "certain Sikhs" you are referring to those from urban city Punjab and Delhi who not only regularly set their daughter in laws on fire but also marry and have children with their first cousins.   If that's not who you meant by "certain Sikhs", lets all just be extremely worried and afraid that your deeply held and well-known prejudice against a "certain" community is such that makes you see incest as not too bad a thing. Not a bad thing at all.

y dont u just create an account rather than comin back as a guest? I thought u sed u were never to come back on here/or u had written ur last goodbye etc. Geezer just make an account man, im sure i aint only who has missed ur p.o.v on topics.

Edited by StarStriker
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1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:
11 hours ago, Guest London jwan said:

when people have talked negatively about 3ho sikhs it is in direct response to evidence of beadbhi of gurbani i.e the dancing and jumping about to it , the twisting of Gurbani arth to justify yogic concepts and if you are not aware Yogi Harbhajan said he himself that Guru Gobind SIngh made Mistakes , that only white sikhs are pure sikhs even without amrit. 

No not all Christians converts are talked of harshly in fact many are liked intensely: I love my brother in faith The 'man in blue',  Sukhmani Kaur is well respected as a parcharik as well as our Spanish, portuguese, Russian and English,Welsh sisters and brothers . Generalising again ?

So what you are saying is, that white converts who read baani, wear turbans, believe in the Gurus, do Kirtan are not Sikhs because they are part of 3HO? Really? Who are you or anybody else to judge that? And as far as other converts are concerned, would you marry your daughter to one? Its those prejudices that Im highlighting. Pointing fingers at the rest of the community but believing yourself to be the ideal Sikh. And its these petty prejudices that hold back the community from progressing and causes unnecessary divisions.

But on a wider point, using your logic, Maharajah Ranjit Singh was not Sikh. He had multiple wives, some hindu, some who committed sati when he was cremated. Im using your logic, which to me is just nonsense. But to you, just another "Punjabi" partaking in beadbi no doubt

 

My folks  never did for any of us , neither did many of our family friends but I guess that's because we are an oddity because apparently EVERYONE DOES IT. The main reason is because they are deluded and are not sikhs by insulting Guru Gobind SIngh ji's amrit as Pani ... they should have sharam  , a clean shaven 'whatever jaat' sikh is an oxymoron 

Well that's just idiotic, go and get a matrimonial list from ANY gurdwara and put your denying eye to the column that specifies Jatt, Pathwari, Tarkhan etc. But obviously because you never did that I must be hallucinating as it doesn't happen because you know better..........

 

Guru Pita ji handed US the reins and told us to take his message forward the fault lies with us if it is not actioned .

Sorry but that answer is a total cop out. My entire point is that the community is holding itself back. You say no gurdwaras based on caste, I say no caste as ordered by the Guru, still happening nonetheless. How does your answer above address that??

 

I find the faults within myself not the Guru's sikhiya ... I blame us as a whole  but strive to teach the next generation better whilst acting towards improving what I can now . I wouldn't know about your status because you came across as being anti everything ... maybe you are maybe you are not  Makes no diff I still have to do what I am Meant to.

And what are you teaching the next generation? Intolerance? That people who worship the guru are not worthy because they wear make up? Trim their beards? If someone diagrees with you, whip out a kirpan and start waving it around? Dont like the gurdwaras actions then go and smash it up? And it is a sign of total ignorance to label that I am anti everything based on the fact that I consider that Sikhs need to come together as a community to progress rather than remain divided and backward and eventually become a minority irrelevance. Youre free to live in the jungles like in Guruji's time imagining that you are still being persecuted by Mughals.

 

Quote

And while you talk of roman Catholic abuse in the church, are you aware of previous abuse in the gurdwaras? Google it. What's your point?

I am pointing out all faiths are undergoing pressures due to kalyug mentality and I am aware abuse happens in all faiths but you think Christianity and Islam are immune from internal strife, please don't imagine untruths. and try to make out SIKHI is the only faith with problems 

You make no sense at all. Where exactly did I say Sikhi is the only faith with problems?? Please quote me. And also I don't care about problems in other faiths I am concerned about problems in mine. Despite the fact that in your self righteous mind I don't even belong to my faith. If youre so self righteous maybe contact the akal takht and nominate yourself as the 11th guru?

Badal has not even managed to keep to the definition of sikh in the Sikh Rehit Maryada , he always doing bhut pooja , visiting pakhandi babey etc etc, He has done his best to harm his fellow sikhs , including false imprisonment, stealing land, and even murder . He has been declared Tankaiya so technically no he is not a sikh . 

 

Personally I think Badal is almost single handedly responsible for the destruction of Punjab as we know it over the past 30 years. But again who are you to say he is not Sikh? Or is your logic that no Sikh commits crime, fraud etc? Go and have a look in Winson Green, loads in there, read the papers.

 

You clearly have a fascination for painting amritdhari sikhs as maniacs when they are not , Rehitvaan sikhs would not attack anyone ... Sure anyone can push and shove and shout but does that mean that ALL sikhs are like that , events involving a handfuls of hotheads are being used as tool to condemn millions and you seem to want to propogate the generalisation.

Really, I'm propagating? nice one. Have a look at this:

A few hotheads??? That is INSIDE the Darbar Sahib. Total embarrassment to the Sikh faith and giving ammunition to those who criticise the Sikh faith as ignorant,  violent maniacs. My whole point is that actions determine how we are perceived in the modern world. I don't advocate changing any aspect of the religion but the community's behaviour and perception. Live in denial, in your perfect self righteous way, these problems are real.

enjoy your life , glad I made you smile ... 

Yup, and you enjoy yours, but yes you certainly did that. I will give you that

 

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A few hotheads??? That is INSIDE the Darbar Sahib. Total embarrassment to the Sikh faith and giving ammunition to those who criticise the Sikh faith as ignorant,  violent maniacs.

Guest London Jawan, given how you've posted a video of a fight at the Golden Temple, you've revealed 2 things about you:

1) You have a very serious and worrying inferiority complex

2) You know so very little about your own religion that you confuse abrahamic place of worship ideals, i.e quietness, serenity, peacefulness, as your own.

Read this:

We need to stop having this inferiority complex about "fighting in our gurdwaras. It happens in every major faith group and none of the others make a song or dance about it or imagine it is the end of days because of it even though they, unlike us, have a place of worship concept that dictates those place be serene, quiet places whereas our concept of it is as a place where we gather, fully armed and prepare our bodies and minds for the art of war. Let me give you an example of how we keep crying and feeling embarrassed about the littlest of things while the Christians don't seem all that bothered about regular fisticuffs in their most holy of holy's.  The Church in Bethlehem where Jesus was born. There's 2 different Christian groups that control the Church and because the priests and religious leaders have regularly been having fist fights inside the crypt for the last 70 years they have had to give the keys to the ancient doors to a local Muslim family in order to keep the peace. So, each day, when its time to open the door, the different Christian groups have to go to the Muslim family - seperately and away from each other because all the priests start punching each other if they are within 2 feet of the other - and the Muslim opens the doors, and likewise locks them at night. 2 years ago, Jesus' crypt was opened and cleaned for the first time in 70 years. The motion to clean the crypt was passed 70 years ago but it took 70 years to actually go about doing it because each time they set a date previously the day turned into an all-out street fight with fists, feet, chairs and rocks between the priests. So, every single day, Christian priests in the most holy church of their religion, punch each other, kick each other, throw chairs and tables at each other and throw rocks and stones at each other. But when have you ever heard a Christian have an inferiority complex about it and say "oh my god....this is terrible....it's so embarrassing.....its making us look bad....what will the Hindus and Sikhs think about us?" :ehhh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shFA_H8e11E

 

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10 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

sorry I've underlined my answers but I feel he's not going be happy with anything , he seems determined to portray his analysis of amritdhari people a certain way. Oh well, I asked him what he meant by educated sikh but he could not clarify whether it was only world ways or in terms of sikhi  (not discounting the option of both or neither). 

If you asked Daas, I'd say he's too ignorant to actually open-up, compared to the Non-Sikhs; our people are like Devti's and Angels. 

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On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Guest London jwaan said:

 

It is ironic that a lot of our community believe that demonstrating in gurdwaras, whipping out kirpans at any opportunity, enjoying any excuse to rebel, is something positive. Its not. Once again it makes the community look like uneducated, under achieving idiots. And make as many comparisons to gurus standing up to much also as you like, it's not the same at all.

Just read the posts in this board, beadbi, jatts criticising tarkhans, anti government posts etc. Not one positive post. No real sikh achievements to speak of.

Look at the matrimonial lists in gurdwaras: seeking "jatts". "Pathwari" clean shaven, amridhari etc. 5 feet tall girls seeking 6'4 guys. Fat guys seeking size 8 girls, "slim" girls being morbidly obese in reality, people with half an hnd working in a shop seeking consultant doctors, investment bankers etc. What meaningless nonsense! And it is precisely this that makes a adbi, criticising each other, and being increasing intolerant, because soon enough there won't be enough numbers to matter.

And not that it matters, I am an educated "jatts" professional for anyone that cars about such nonsense. I am a sikh and that's all I need to define myself.

I agree these r problems...but there has to be a distinction between panjabi problems and sikh problems...tho yhesr days they r so entwined it hardly matters

Are u saying that we let anyone claim they r sikh without following sikhi?

I think we need more precise definition to define n describe ppl. Like islamists vs isis vs muslims.

If u want to be a mona sikh, no idol worship, no caste n do at least mool mantar daily. If doin sewa at gurudwara, dont have eaten meat that day.

If sehajdhari sikh, be vegetarian, do japji sahib n simran daily, no worshipping idos or faith in other religions.

If kesdhari sikh, then the above plus rehraas sahib 

If amritdhari then full rehit

And we shud have heirarchy, based on commitment to rehit and length of nitnem

 This way if someome claims to be sikh then at least they will know where they fit n there wil be some rules to follow. Also we can make caste n fanticide the two things that can make u not sikh. 

About the unrealistic sikhs, life and time r great teachers. The obese girls will learn to tell the truth n settle for less. As will the short girls and the uneducated boys. As time passes n they keep gettin rejected and cant find partners to their exact specifications, they will have to settle for less.

Ofc this shows the materialistic ideology running through the panjabi/sikh psyche. Where wealth, looks, and status matter more than faith, values, and the environment. But as ppl learn money will not buy happiness, they will learn or their children will after having suffered. It might be too late for panjab tho.This materialistic culture has destroyed the land, the youth, and SGPC. But ppl r hopefully fed up with Badal and will make AAP win. 

Though most ppl r wrong to blame Badal exclusively for these conditions. And Badal is a sikh. If he had to get dirty in politics n go beg deras for votes, it dont make him nonSikh. Badal is providing wat the ppl want. In a documentary about water, it said that panjabis r using subsidized electricity to pump increasing amounts of water n decreasing water table at alarming rate.

And why did Badal provide free electricity for farmers to destroy water table? Cuz farmers wanted that. Ofc the Anandpur resolution n water rights could help. But we lost that war. Noway a mere voted politician can get that concession from central govt. 

So if we want panjab to succeed, we need someone who doesnt only have farmers or Sikhs interests at heart. We need a wilier, dirtier politician who can get things done. Without being labeled anti sikh every other day. Maybe AAP can do that

 

 

 

 

 

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Finally! Not2cool2argue, thank you for a balanced non fanatical, intelligent post. Seriously.

Whilst I disagree on a couple of points, and that's fine, on the whole I respect your progressive, intelligent post in all seriousness.

Jkvlondon, your silence is deafening. So was maharajah ranjit Singh a sikh in your view? If so, how come given that he had multiple wives consecutively some of which were Hindu? Surely "Beadbi" according to your definitions?

If not, what was he? 

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1 hour ago, Guest London jwan said:

Finally! Not2cool2argue, thank you for a balanced non fanatical, intelligent post. Seriously.

Whilst I disagree on a couple of points, and that's fine, on the whole I respect your progressive, intelligent post in all seriousness.

Jkvlondon, your silence is deafening. So was maharajah ranjit Singh a sikh in your view? If so, how come given that he had multiple wives consecutively some of which were Hindu? Surely "Beadbi" according to your definitions?

If not, what was he? 

if you know your history :

you know the sikh kaum considered him a tankiya for Marrying a muslim dancing girl, For which Akali Phula Singh was prepared to carry out the punishment of whipping him under the orders of the Akal Takht  when he presented himself.

You know he disregarded Guru Sahiban's warnings to not embellish the Harmandir Sahib with maya  Some people read it as desire to show love for Sikhi ...but surely following Guru Sahiban's wishes and financing the spread of parchaar would do the same . 

You know that he had SLAVE girls which no sikh ever had and Guru Nanak Dev ji was totally against , some who commited satti thinking they would go to swarag i.e. superstition.

He drank sharab and according to accounts did opium

so you tell me was he a sikh or a king from a family of sikhs? If we are saying we agree with Bhai Gurdas that a Guru Says and a Sikh does 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

I agree these r problems...but there has to be a distinction between panjabi problems and sikh problems...tho yhesr days they r so entwined it hardly matters

Are u saying that we let anyone claim they r sikh without following sikhi?

I think we need more precise definition to define n describe ppl. Like islamists vs isis vs muslims.

If u want to be a mona sikh, no idol worship, no caste n do at least mool mantar daily. If doin sewa at gurudwara, dont have eaten meat that day.

If sehajdhari sikh, be vegetarian, do japji sahib n simran daily, no worshipping idos or faith in other religions.

If kesdhari sikh, then the above plus rehraas sahib 

If amritdhari then full rehit

And we shud have heirarchy, based on commitment to rehit and length of nitnem

 This way if someome claims to be sikh then at least they will know where they fit n there wil be some rules to follow. Also we can make caste n fanticide the two things that can make u not sikh. 

About the unrealistic sikhs, life and time r great teachers. The obese girls will learn to tell the truth n settle for less. As will the short girls and the uneducated boys. As time passes n they keep gettin rejected and cant find partners to their exact specifications, they will have to settle for less.

Ofc this shows the materialistic ideology running through the panjabi/sikh psyche. Where wealth, looks, and status matter more than faith, values, and the environment. But as ppl learn money will not buy happiness, they will learn or their children will after having suffered. It might be too late for panjab tho.This materialistic culture has destroyed the land, the youth, and SGPC. But ppl r hopefully fed up with Badal and will make AAP win. 

Though most ppl r wrong to blame Badal exclusively for these conditions. And Badal is a sikh. If he had to get dirty in politics n go beg deras for votes, it dont make him nonSikh. Badal is providing wat the ppl want. In a documentary about water, it said that panjabis r using subsidized electricity to pump increasing amounts of water n decreasing water table at alarming rate.

And why did Badal provide free electricity for farmers to destroy water table? Cuz farmers wanted that. Ofc the Anandpur resolution n water rights could help. But we lost that war. Noway a mere voted politician can get that concession from central govt. 

So if we want panjab to succeed, we need someone who doesnt only have farmers or Sikhs interests at heart. We need a wilier, dirtier politician who can get things done. Without being labeled anti sikh every other day. Maybe AAP can do that

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bro , The Badal admin HAD TO provide free electricity as they knew there was no way they were going to get money from the farmers who were already struggling against the lack of water , as they say you can't get a gallon out of a pint pot. I say he's a non-sikh because he has gone against the oldest rule in the book , bhra-maar ... Guru ji said himself that one sikh who kills another is not a sikh ... whether he does by his own hand or through his minions it's one thing. How many sikh farmers have commited suicide? how many extra-juidicial police executions on his watch? How many cancer victims ? How many drug related deaths from his family's dealings?

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Jagsaw Singh,

Whilst my comprehensive reply to your ignorant post was moderated out by the mods, I would like to point out that lazily copying and pasting your rambling nonsense about inferiority complexes from an entirely different thread on February 1st 

 

Thank you 

 

Mod Edit: Come on bro. On one side you make some good points about toxicity of Punjabis in the diaspora and then you spit toxicity. Keep it objective...

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