Guest guest singh

does sikhi permit use of contraception with own wife

42 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Preeet said:

ਹਾਥ ਕਮੰਡਲ੝ ਕਾਪੜੀਆ ਮਨਿ ਤ੝ਰਿਸਨਾ ਉਪਜੀ ਭਾਰੀ ॥
Hĝth kamandal kĝpṛī­ĝ man ṯarisnĝ upjī bẖĝrī.
With bowl in hand, wearing his patched coat, great desires well up in his mind.
ਇਸਤ੝ਰੀ ਤਜਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਮਿ ਵਿਆਪਿਆ ਚਿਤ੝ ਲਾਇਆ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ॥
Isṯarī ṯaj kar kĝm vi­ĝpi­ĝ cẖiṯ lĝ­i­ĝ par nĝrī.
Abandoning his own wife, he is engrossed in sexual desire; his thoughts are on the wives of others.
 

& about the 16K wives of that avatar, it is real.. The story is that there was an asura named NarakhAsur and he kidnapped those 16000 women, Sri Krishna ji saved those women and the women said something along the lines that who would marry them now considering that they have been captive at an asura's home. So Sri Krishna ji told them that he will be their spouses name wise.

The gurbani line you quoted describe signs of a fake saadhu ! 

In case of a gay man, it would be someone who claims to be a monk now but even within monasteries, homosexual activity is happening.

Its a lesson don't go celibacy just because of your life circumcstances lol

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14 hours ago, Preeet said:

Lol what difference is it between a new sadhu, and someone who is gay who is forced to be 'celibate' in sikhi..(instead of fulfilling the kaam(marriage) part of life [Dharma, Artha , Kama and Mukhti])? Don't both of those unmarried people have their minds distracted at times

the 'chaar padarth' u mentioned are part of hindu dharam. Nowhere mentioned in sikhi as far as I am aware , certainly not the artha (finance) and kama(sexual desire). 

Secondly, I am wondering what if I chose middle way : like having it with other guys , and also maintaining a dharmic life (sewa, simran, etc ) ?

where would i land then ? because the longest I have gone without touching myself was 42 days ! trust me, my mind was going havoc with all of it ! you can constrain urself physically but mentally mind still wavers. Heck , it happens in gurudwara if a hot guy passed by you . Very tough indeed !

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On 24/02/2017 at 11:13 PM, singhbj singh said:

The verse from Dasam Granth is obviously talking about physical relationship between male n female, husband n wife therefore are valid.

Non-marital sex is forbidden, even to fantasies is not allowed.

If you read today's Hukamnama from Sri Darbar Sahib Amritsar it will remove all doubt's about Grehasti not being Spiritual. More so Sikhs should be Udaasi within Grehast Jeevan.

https://www.sikhnet.com/hukam

The Gurus never stopped from speaking directly.  If Satguru was saying to increase physical relations he would have directly said it.  But he didn't and said increase "sang".  Your mind is polluted by sex and you want gurmat to give you a thumbs up but this will never happen.  Satguru in the later part of the lesson gives an example of what not to do ever; go to another woman bed in your dreams.  What does this mean.  It means thoughts are dangerous and theu take you the pit of hell if this is how you think.  Your backward western culture has taken your mind 10000 steps back.  

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13 hours ago, Preeet said:

You should read nitnem sahib (daily).. It mentions the char padaraths in it. Kaam generally means wish (manokaamna).. Aartha is also blessed on Sikhs if they give dasvand, then their income also increases. As for the last issue, I sadly do not know what to advise you to do. Probably just marry another guy through court marriage and then both be blessed with amrit together? Since I think couples from different background religions who convert to sikhi do not get an anand karaj if they are new to sikhi now, since they are already married. Not sure though, just my opinion. 

If non-sikhs become sikhs then have amrit they have to be remarried according to anand karaj to be correct in Sikhi

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11 minutes ago, Preeet said:

Really..? Some of my family has been married through hindu style and never got remarried like that.. lol.

Your family does not set the precedent.

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21 minutes ago, Preeet said:

What would the 5pyare tell a gay married couple if they were to get blessed with amrit together then? To get an anand karaj?

Are you comparing your family hindu wedding to the illegitimate couple of homosexuals?  On one hand you want your family actions to be the benchmark and in the next few hours you want to compare them to homosexuals couples.  Let me remind you, sex outside of marriage is a kurehit and this would mean no such thing as homosexual amritdharis actively living as homosexuals.  Also no such thing as homosexual amritdharis as couples because homosexuals can't get married in Sikhi by Anand Karaj and any other marriage ceremony is not a replacement to make them a legitimate couple according to Sikhi.  I know this is a lot for you to digest, but take your time and don't be rash in your response.  You will only make Trump look wittier than you.

Edited by Akalifauj

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4 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

The Gurus never stopped from speaking directly.  If Satguru was saying to increase physical relations he would have directly said it.  But he didn't and said increase "sang".  Your mind is polluted by sex and you want gurmat to give you a thumbs up but this will never happen.  Satguru in the later part of the lesson gives an example of what not to do ever; go to another woman bed in your dreams.  What does this mean.  It means thoughts are dangerous and theu take you the pit of hell if this is how you think.  Your backward western culture has taken your mind 10000 steps back.  

Gurbani is an ocean nobody can follow all of it.

It took many Mahapurakhs from various backgrounds n lifestyle to experience, practice & compose Gurbani.

One can choose to be Bairaagi but only through Waheguru jeeo's will you can do so not by self effort.

Most end up being Abhaagi, neither Grehasti nor Bairaagi.

For Paapi's like me Guru Arjan Dev ji gives hope -

"Says Nanak, hear my prayer, God;

I am silly, stubborn and filled with sexual desire - please, liberate me! ||4||"

Source - http://beta.igurbani.com/shabad/2813

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6 hours ago, Preeet said:

Really..? Some of my family has been married through hindu style and never got remarried like that.. lol.

that's right , they also have name karan ceremony too ...  maybe your family never revealed that fact  but think about it to be married in anand Karaj  is very different from the Hindu ceremony one binds you equally  to Akal Purakh as your Husband lord the other diminishes the woman to daasi of her human pati , never afforded her own right to salvation oly told that she has to serve her husband in this life (and I guess the other six janams) before being born as a man to get chance at mukhti.

Totally different scenarios

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On ‎26‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 9:53 PM, singhbj singh said:

Gurbani is an ocean nobody can follow all of it.

It took many Mahapurakhs from various backgrounds n lifestyle to experience, practice & compose Gurbani.

We are not talking about individuals.  This is a talk on what Gurmat says to do.  Whenever your fanatical liberal agenda is shown in it's true light, you attempt to change the topic.  Stick to the topic we were discussing for once.

Quote

One can choose to be Bairaagi but only through Waheguru jeeo's will you can do so not by self effort.

Most end up being Abhaagi, neither Grehasti nor Bairaagi.

You are diluting the terms to fit your lifestyle as the standard of Gurmat.  Grehasti jeevan does not tell a person to increase love with the wife, but sang (company) as Sri Guru Tegh Badadur Sahib ji said to Gobind Rai at a young age. 
 

Quote

 

For Paapi's like me Guru Arjan Dev ji gives hope -

"Says Nanak, hear my prayer, God;

I am silly, stubborn and filled with sexual desire - please, liberate me! ||4||"

Source - http://beta.igurbani.com/shabad/2813

 

What does liberation mean?  Liberation is achieved by following the Guru's path, which includes removing sexual desires between husband and wife.  A person who is indulging in sexual desire can't be liberated.  Anand Karaj is not a licence to go to town on the spouse.  Liberation means to take the shackles off of attachment between husband and wife.  Husband and wife are worldly relations as Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib ji says.  A husband and wife who follow the teachings of the Guru are in a true relationship because they are following the Guru.  This type of husband and wife left behind the teachings of vedas, which are lost in the 3 gunas.   

If you were truly following Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji, you would ask Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji how do I remove my silliness, stubbornness and sexual desire: 

gun gwvq Acuq AibnwsI kwm k®oD ibnsy md FITy ]

Singing the Glorious Praises of the imperishable, indestructible Lord, sexual desire, anger and stubborn pride vanish.

 
There is your answer.  If a addict never admits he has a problem, then how would he get rid of something that doesn't exist in his mind?
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According to Gurbani, anybody can attain liberation whether Grehasti or Bairaagi.

Being Grehasti obviously means people can, had & are having sex !

Adharam is extra marital sex.

If one takes path of a Bairaagi then he should remain detached.

Now most wannabes remain engrossed in Moh & Maya, making them Abhaagis or namesake Bairaagis.

Ang 550 Line 15 Raag Bihaagrhaa: Guru Amar Das
 

ਦਰਵੇਸੀ ਕੋ ਜਾਣਸੀ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਕੋ ਦਰਵੇਸੁ ॥

Dharavaesee Ko Jaanasee Viralaa Ko Dharavaes ||

दरवेसी को जाणसी विरला को दरवेसु ॥

How rare is the dervish, the Saintly renunciate, who understands renunciation.

 

ਜੇ ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਹੰਢੈ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਧਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਧਿਗੁ ਵੇਸੁ ॥

Jae Ghar Ghar Handtai Mangadhaa Dhhig Jeevan Dhhig Vaes ||

जे घरि घरि हंढै मंगदा धिगु जीवणु धिगु वेसु ॥

Cursed is the life, and cursed are the clothes, of one who wanders around, begging from door to door.

15 ਬਿਹਾਗੜੇ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫੫੦ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
Raag Bihaagrhaa Guru Amar Das 

 

There is no shame in accepting Grehasti Jeevan, Baba Baljit Singh Daduwal did it by marrying late.

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People really miss the point, don't they? 

Ok adultery is bad, extra marital is haraam. But what if a person never had a chance to get married? 

What is extra marital for him? Its a cruel joke for him. First you deny him right to marry, and acceptance in society, then you say if he ever had sex, its sinful . 

 

If homosexuals are supposed to be celibate because their sex doesn't lead to reproduction, then it beggers the belief how is sex with contraceptives in heterosexual couples any different than gay sex? Both lead to same end point : no reproduction! 

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2 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

If a married couple are living as brother / sister then why even be married at all!? There is no point to marriage at all! Did our Gurus promote life of ascetic now???

If you would like to marry your brother, that is your choice.  Keep the topic on point. 

Thanks.

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On 20/02/2017 at 2:47 PM, Guest Kadeykadey said:

And you should be the last one to be preaching over here!  There is no evidence of homos either during that time!  What a hypocrite. Heteros had too many kids 'cos all they had in those days was bedroom entertainment and nothing else.  Bollywood and television entertainment were not invented till recently to keep their pathetically lazy and useless minds occupied. Let's face it, how many people in those days could read or write with Punjabi blood running in their veins? They never could read newspapers, novels, medical journals or even a simple comic in those days, could they? Their unoccupied minds ran wild, created havoc at every moment of their lives.  Contraception  became extremely important to stop producing unwanted army of hooligans meaning unruly, unwanted kids!  Some kids never even went to school if they were born in a pennd. All sex is lust therefore should only be used in an emergency like when couples want to have a child to increase the size of their family. Honestly you are such a hypocrite. 

 

What is this bakwaas? Some people just don't know when to zip it

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On 20 February 2017 at 2:47 PM, Guest Kadeykadey said:

And you should be the last one to be preaching over here!  There is no evidence of homos either during that time!  What a hypocrite. Heteros had too many kids 'cos all they had in those days was bedroom entertainment and nothing else.  Bollywood and television entertainment were not invented till recently to keep their pathetically lazy and useless minds occupied. Let's face it, how many people in those days could read or write with Punjabi blood running in their veins? They never could read newspapers, novels, medical journals or even a simple comic in those days, could they? Their unoccupied minds ran wild, created havoc at every moment of their lives.  Contraception  became extremely important to stop producing unwanted army of hooligans meaning unruly, unwanted kids!  Some kids never even went to school if they were born in a pennd. All sex is lust therefore should only be used in an emergency like when couples want to have a child to increase the size of their family. Honestly you are such a hypocrite. 

 

I wonder how you managed to score 5 likes.........yours must be the most popular post haha! I also enjoyed reading it, it made me laugh soooooooooo much.  Good on ya to make ppls laugh.

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On 05/03/2017 at 11:55 PM, singhbj singh said:

According to Gurbani, anybody can attain liberation whether Grehasti or Bairaagi.

Being Grehasti obviously means people can, had & are having sex !

Adharam is extra marital sex.

If one takes path of a Bairaagi then he should remain detached.

Now most wannabes remain engrossed in Moh & Maya, making them Abhaagis or namesake Bairaagis.

Ang 550 Line 15 Raag Bihaagrhaa: Guru Amar Das
 

ਦਰਵੇਸੀ ਕੋ ਜਾਣਸੀ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਕੋ ਦਰਵੇਸੁ ॥

Dharavaesee Ko Jaanasee Viralaa Ko Dharavaes ||

दरवेसी को जाणसी विरला को दरवेसु ॥

How rare is the dervish, the Saintly renunciate, who understands renunciation.

 

ਜੇ ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਹੰਢੈ ਮੰਗਦਾ ਧਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਧਿਗੁ ਵੇਸੁ ॥

Jae Ghar Ghar Handtai Mangadhaa Dhhig Jeevan Dhhig Vaes ||

जे घरि घरि हंढै मंगदा धिगु जीवणु धिगु वेसु ॥

Cursed is the life, and cursed are the clothes, of one who wanders around, begging from door to door.

15 ਬਿਹਾਗੜੇ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫੫੦ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
Raag Bihaagrhaa Guru Amar Das 

 

There is no shame in accepting Grehasti Jeevan, Baba Baljit Singh Daduwal did it by marrying late.

This is grehasti Jeevan:

ਇਕਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਕੁਟੰਬ ਮਹਿ ਸਦਾ ਉਦਾਸੀ ॥ ਸਬਦਿ ਮੁਏ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਹਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤੇ ਭੈ ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੭॥ Ang 1046

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4 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

This is grehasti Jeevan:

ਇਕਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਕੁਟੰਬ ਮਹਿ ਸਦਾ ਉਦਾਸੀ ॥ ਸਬਦਿ ਮੁਏ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਹਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤੇ ਭੈ ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੭॥ Ang 1046

Grehasti means married life ?

Are you saying get married & refrain from sex 

or not marry n stay with parents ?

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On 24 March 2017 at 8:21 AM, Akalifauj said:

This is grehasti Jeevan:

ਇਕਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਕੁਟੰਬ ਮਹਿ ਸਦਾ ਉਦਾਸੀ ॥ ਸਬਦਿ ਮੁਏ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਹਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤੇ ਭੈ ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੭॥ Ang 1046

 

 

 

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