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does sikhi permit use of contraception with own wife


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According to Gurus, the woman was the true faith. Once Guru Hargobind chanced to meet Jehangir, a disciple of Daulai Shah who said to him

Aurat kya aur faqiri kya, Hindu kya aur Piri kya?
Puttar kya vairag kya, daulat kya or tyag kya.?
(Woman and mendicancy do not go together as a Hindu and Pir 
(Divine); a son and detachment; wealth and renunciation).

Guruji advised him that the woman you ridicule keeps the moral character high:

Aurat Iman, daulat guzran, puttar nishan,
Faqir na Hindu na Musalman.
(A woman is the faith, wealth is for a living, a son continues the lineage and a Faqir is neither a Hindu nor a Musalman).

Of course the Sikh faith forbids cohabitation with ‘other’ women so that man should not decline morally.

"Sudh jab te ham dhari bachan Guru diaye hamarai.
Poot eh pran tohi, pran jab lag ghat tharai.
Nij nari sang neh tum nit badhaiyoh.
Parnari ki sage bhool supnai hoon na jaiyiho" - Dasam Granth

(When I came of age, my father-Guru told me to take a vow - to be kept throughout my life- to love my wedded wife always and not to go to another woman’s bed erroneously even in a dream).

Source - http://www.jawadditaksal.org/imageofwoman.php

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1 hour ago, singhbj singh said:

"Sudh jab te ham dhari bachan Guru diaye hamarai.
Poot eh pran tohi, pran jab lag ghat tharai.
Nij nari sang neh tum nit badhaiyoh.
Parnari ki sage bhool supnai hoon na jaiyiho" - Dasam Granth

(When I came of age, my father-Guru told me to take a vow - to be kept throughout my life- to love my wedded wife always and not to go to another woman’s bed erroneously even in a dream).

Source - http://www.jawadditaksal.org/imageofwoman.php

Can you bring a reference to what sang means in Gurmat terms.  Literal meaning of sang is company, yet in english you mistranslate to say love.  If you were trying to adapt the union of one owns woman with thee man to the other side of the coin of never going to another woman's bed even in dreams.  This would mean to translate sang as lust in english because going to another woman's bed in dreams is all about lust and the later is being prescribed by the Guru according to your beliefs.  But obvoiusly we have Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib jis bani to shine more light on this teaching.  Satguru says not to lust and attach yourself to family, including wife.  So it can't be lust and it also can't be love because love is attachment when speaking about wife. Gurbani read as lavan as man and wife get married says nothing about loving your wife as you have so carelessly put it.  Worldly love is not approved in Gurbani.  Instead the lavan describe the journey the soul takes on the path to the Guru.  First lav says to let go of the vedas the praise to brahma.  Gurbani says the vedas are stuck in the 3 gunas and dont know the fourth state.  The 3 gunas are maya and this includes lust love and attachment.  Contemplating over the lavan a person can easily understand the meaning of "sang" in the wisdom sri guru tegh bahadur sahib ji passed on to sri guru gobind singh ji at a young age. 

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Guest AjeetSinghPunjabi
8 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 

Intimacy with husband and wife goes way beyond sexual pleasure. There is a reason the Gurus encouraged gristi jiwan. Sexual union is way more than physical. It's literally the merging of two souls into one as spiritual energy is shared between them. It's a part of being husband and wife. Procreation is only one reason for it and certainly it's up to the couple how many children they want or can afford. But just because family planning is done does not mean the husband and wife then part ways physically and become as brother and sister? In Gurbani marriage (and even sexual union) are used as metaphors because its the closest thing we can understand to our merging with akal purakh. When we merge with our spouse, we are living out that metaphor and it can be (in right circumstances and not done for mere physical pleasure) a deeply spiritual event. However outside marriage its too simple to just say this is paap that is paap. It's deeper than that. It's harmful spiritually because spiritual energy is exchanged / shared between the couple. So its not like abrahamic religions that say fire and brimstone if you do this or dont do that. For Sikhs hell is being separated from Akal Purakh Waheguru. And by mingling many spiritual energies and that too for only physical pleasure, its only us who lose out in the end because it brings us further away from our goal and hence that is the hell. But to answer the OP, yes contraception is fine in a committed marriage. Celebacy is not advocated in marriage by any of the Gurus. If a couple has finished family planning then they are not expected to just stop being intimate with each other. Or else IVF can become the new norm. Why even bother with sex at all if you can make a baby in a test tube and the couple never has to touch each other at all!  In fact, asceticism is actively spoken against in Gurbani. There is no rule that I am aware of in any rehet maryada in existence that says otherwise (but correct me if I am wrong). 

 

You do realize that gurbani says nothing about physical sex and spirituality ? except lust.

Even in 'laava' verses recited in anand karaj, it talks of union of soul (bride ) and god (groom) . 

Yes it uses metaphors but those metaphors don't point to humans husband and wife, but rather to soul as bride and god as husband.

In whole of laava, not once is there an indication of marriage happening between a man and wife .

Also, soul has no gender . So , it beggers again "Why is heterosexual intimacy and more "spiritual" than gay intimacy who truly love each other ?"

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Guest AjeetSinghPunjabi
43 minutes ago, Preeet said:

Exactly, it makes me kinda confused on how in some Gurbani lines it talks about sadhus leaving their wives but then they still keep thinking of women in their mind as a sadhu.. Can the same thing be said for gay people who try to 'leave' the marriage concept while becoming celibate & 'dharmic', but still think of guys? So does that not mean that they should get married as well.... bhul chuk maff kijye

which gurbani lines you referring to ? please post. 

Also I don't think anywhere any of bhagat, guru ji or bhatts baanis refer to women in any sexual way at all ! 

It is just example to help us understand jeev-aatma (often referred to as 'jeev-istree' in sikh literature) relationship with param-aatma (god) . 

Since we have no inkling of what relationship to god feels like , those who have felt it have tried to pen it in comparison to earthly relationships we do understand ! and what more intimate relation than that of a spouse ! 

In Gurbani , at places, baani sometimes go along the lines of "Dear sister, tell me how you impressed your husband ? ... he doesn't like me, but likes you, tell me how you impressed ...." something along these lines ! and final closing line is of joy of how the wife finally impresses her husband and the typical shabad would close so ".. and then he came to bed and finally I enjoyed him ... " .. 

I think I have read atleast one such shabad although I don't remember which exactly. but trust me, there's no sexual undercurrent in this shabad AT ALL ! it just helps us relate to our bodiless relationship with creator (something we don't understand) by comparing it to a relationship of intimacy that we do understand and often live ! 

Same can be said of krishna and gopis in hindu literature. Some say krishna had 16500 wives. Its not possible literally ! so again a hidden metaphor . Gopis revolving around krishna in play dance. Trust me, this often gets sexualized, but subtle metaphor is lost, namely that of souls (gopis) enjoying the spiritual bliss of krishna (god) and all of creation revolving around the creator.

Rigveda and some upanishads mention the relationship of soul (jeev) and parbrahm as such : 

"On a tree bearing multiple fruits, both bitter and sweet, sits two birds of a kind, eternal companions.

One , of golden plume and luminous sits serenly on topmost branch, unperturbed and in bliss.

On the lower branches, jumping from branch to branch, is its companion, who sometimes eat sweet fruits and sometimes bitter. 

When it eats bitter fruits, it sometimes looks up and see its undisturbed , blissed companion of golden feathers. However , it soons forget its sorrows and starts eating sweet and bitter again . 

Sometimes, again it eats bitter and this time flies on top branch , approaches the golden plume companion and when it goes very near, it realizes its golden plume is itself only, its inner-most self, the atma !"

 

 the tree refers to body or world, the golden plume companion is the real self, the bird moving from here and there is jeev . the bitter and sweet fruits are dukh and sukh respectively which we bear in this world. When the bird goes on top branch (higher avastha) , it realizes its own self, and attains liberation and bliss, which gurbaani refers to as "mann tu jot saroop hai, apna mool pachaan" 

Quite good example these seers made ! many such metaphors throughout in gurbani also. 

The bigger question is "Can we believe ? truly?"

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9 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Can you bring a reference to what sang means in Gurmat terms.  Literal meaning of sang is company, yet in english you mistranslate to say love.  If you were trying to adapt the union of one owns woman with thee man to the other side of the coin of never going to another woman's bed even in dreams.  This would mean to translate sang as lust in english because going to another woman's bed in dreams is all about lust and the later is being prescribed by the Guru according to your beliefs.  But obvoiusly we have Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib jis bani to shine more light on this teaching.  Satguru says not to lust and attach yourself to family, including wife.  So it can't be lust and it also can't be love because love is attachment when speaking about wife. Gurbani read as lavan as man and wife get married says nothing about loving your wife as you have so carelessly put it.  Worldly love is not approved in Gurbani.  Instead the lavan describe the journey the soul takes on the path to the Guru.  First lav says to let go of the vedas the praise to brahma.  Gurbani says the vedas are stuck in the 3 gunas and dont know the fourth state.  The 3 gunas are maya and this includes lust love and attachment.  Contemplating over the lavan a person can easily understand the meaning of "sang" in the wisdom sri guru tegh bahadur sahib ji passed on to sri guru gobind singh ji at a young age. 

The verse from Dasam Granth is obviously talking about physical relationship between male n female, husband n wife therefore are valid.

Non-marital sex is forbidden, even to fantasies is not allowed.

If you read today's Hukamnama from Sri Darbar Sahib Amritsar it will remove all doubt's about Grehasti not being Spiritual. More so Sikhs should be Udaasi within Grehast Jeevan.

https://www.sikhnet.com/hukam

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Guest AjeetSinghPunjabi
2 minutes ago, Preeet said:

ਹਾਥ ਕਮੰਡਲ੝ ਕਾਪੜੀਆ ਮਨਿ ਤ੝ਰਿਸਨਾ ਉਪਜੀ ਭਾਰੀ ॥
Hĝth kamandal kĝpṛī­ĝ man ṯarisnĝ upjī bẖĝrī.
With bowl in hand, wearing his patched coat, great desires well up in his mind.
ਇਸਤ੝ਰੀ ਤਜਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਮਿ ਵਿਆਪਿਆ ਚਿਤ੝ ਲਾਇਆ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ॥
Isṯarī ṯaj kar kĝm vi­ĝpi­ĝ cẖiṯ lĝ­i­ĝ par nĝrī.
Abandoning his own wife, he is engrossed in sexual desire; his thoughts are on the wives of others.
 

& about the 16K wives of that avatar, it is real.. The story is that there was an asura named NarakhAsur and he kidnapped those 16000 women, Sri Krishna ji saved those women and the women said something along the lines that who would marry them now considering that they have been captive at an asura's home. So Sri Krishna ji told them that he will be their spouses name wise.

The gurbani line you quoted describe signs of a fake saadhu ! 

In case of a gay man, it would be someone who claims to be a monk now but even within monasteries, homosexual activity is happening.

Its a lesson don't go celibacy just because of your life circumcstances lol

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Guest AjeetSinghPunjabi
14 hours ago, Preeet said:

Lol what difference is it between a new sadhu, and someone who is gay who is forced to be 'celibate' in sikhi..(instead of fulfilling the kaam(marriage) part of life [Dharma, Artha , Kama and Mukhti])? Don't both of those unmarried people have their minds distracted at times

the 'chaar padarth' u mentioned are part of hindu dharam. Nowhere mentioned in sikhi as far as I am aware , certainly not the artha (finance) and kama(sexual desire). 

Secondly, I am wondering what if I chose middle way : like having it with other guys , and also maintaining a dharmic life (sewa, simran, etc ) ?

where would i land then ? because the longest I have gone without touching myself was 42 days ! trust me, my mind was going havoc with all of it ! you can constrain urself physically but mentally mind still wavers. Heck , it happens in gurudwara if a hot guy passed by you . Very tough indeed !

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On 24/02/2017 at 11:13 PM, singhbj singh said:

The verse from Dasam Granth is obviously talking about physical relationship between male n female, husband n wife therefore are valid.

Non-marital sex is forbidden, even to fantasies is not allowed.

If you read today's Hukamnama from Sri Darbar Sahib Amritsar it will remove all doubt's about Grehasti not being Spiritual. More so Sikhs should be Udaasi within Grehast Jeevan.

https://www.sikhnet.com/hukam

The Gurus never stopped from speaking directly.  If Satguru was saying to increase physical relations he would have directly said it.  But he didn't and said increase "sang".  Your mind is polluted by sex and you want gurmat to give you a thumbs up but this will never happen.  Satguru in the later part of the lesson gives an example of what not to do ever; go to another woman bed in your dreams.  What does this mean.  It means thoughts are dangerous and theu take you the pit of hell if this is how you think.  Your backward western culture has taken your mind 10000 steps back.  

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13 hours ago, Preeet said:

You should read nitnem sahib (daily).. It mentions the char padaraths in it. Kaam generally means wish (manokaamna).. Aartha is also blessed on Sikhs if they give dasvand, then their income also increases. As for the last issue, I sadly do not know what to advise you to do. Probably just marry another guy through court marriage and then both be blessed with amrit together? Since I think couples from different background religions who convert to sikhi do not get an anand karaj if they are new to sikhi now, since they are already married. Not sure though, just my opinion. 

If non-sikhs become sikhs then have amrit they have to be remarried according to anand karaj to be correct in Sikhi

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