AjeetSinghPunjabi

I feel like I am standing at crossroads of life. A burden on my heart haunts me ..

46 posts in this topic

From my posts here you probably know I struggled (and still do) with my orientation which puts me at odds with social orders and prevents me from living a normal life (marriage, kids,..) , something I always wanted to do. 

However, I also feel apprehensive of where I am now and the path I pick from here on, because whichever path I chose will land me at that destination. 

Not only I feel fearful but regretful as well.

I am right now 27 and it will be another 11 months before I turn 28. My parents every other day keep insisting I get married .  I told them I am gay 2 yrs back , I never felt any love for any woman, I am blind to what love to a woman even feels like because I have never felt it . How on earth then is it possible for someone in their right sense of mind to marry someone whom one doesn't love?!! but my parents went in denial.

and considering marriage is for lifetime . Before you accuse me of basing marriage on lust, like I was accused so in another thread, let me ask you "Would you marry , or expect any heterosexual to marry someone blindly, just for sake of reproducing? Do you call a young person lustful when they seek good partners for marriage ?"

ANYWAYS, my agenda is not of debate, its of seeking an answer to not just my orientation but something far more lasting and of larger consequences.

I feel pity on myself sometimes, and other times anger because I realize this sorrow too is my own earned, a fruit of some karma of past life. This forces me to be wary of what I do NOW and my soul warns me only to do good deeds , charitable, compassionate,...

And perhaps praying to guru sahib about this also won't make me magically heterosexual because karmas can't be exhausted until expended. So, I fear that I will have to live with it until the day I die . Will have to cry those tears as much as I made someone else cry, although now I remember it not.

Seeing the world and life for what it is , sometimes I have felt strongly to attempt to put an end to this "aava gavan" and seek liberation from cycle of life. In this life I am gay and miserable, what if all the charity of this lifetime give me birth as kid in some billionaire's mansion in another life. A life of luxury ! as exciting as it may seem, it still is a mirage ! because if this misery of today wouldn't last, neither will the riches of tomorrow !

No sukh or dukh is permanent, and yet here I cry . I wonder why we live a life of such contradictions. 

However this is part of my mind and thought process, which encourages I try to look beyond the current scenarios of sorrow and try to cross over this bhavsagar by taking amrit, doing nitnem, giving dasvand and living a dharmic life committed to guru ji and not dunia. 

 

My life might perhaps be blissful if there were no other part of my mind. However, there is another one as well, the one that tells me that it does take seriously the aforementioned raised spiritual concerns, but at the same time is fearful that it may lose the youth of 20's by being gyaani. So it tells me we can do sadhna and live a gursikhi lifestyle later , right now we can party (in a non-alcoholic, non-smoking, non-drug fashion) , enjoy sex and other joys this world has to offer, although tainted . Because what if I am in my 40s , look back and regret all I missed ?

I did went to a gay party last night, I didn't drink a drop of alcohol though, and the tobacco smoke was choking me . I hate smoking / alcohol and even meat, but I just went there to see things.

It tells me cut your hair (something I wanted to do since 10 yrs back but couldn't dare to do it till now) , make your body, go on dates , go places, enjoy life to a tee.

And we can return to guru sahib's sikhi , take amrit when we have crossed mid 30's .

 

I am literally torn in between these 2 voices in my mind. I don't know what should I do .

While others are partying in their 20s and are excited about marriage, I die everyday in my thoughts . :( The soul swan cries unto its lord for help , and sometimes finds temporary refuge and solace in baani of SGGS. 

 

EDIT :

I wanted to add that some 6-7 yrs back I slowly started sliding into agnosticism . However, In June 2015, miraculous intervention occured when I was seeking  job happlessly.

I heard a voice from my heart say "you do sewa of 11 sundays, u will be blessed with a job". And it happened ! I got a better job profile and a better paying one than I dreamed of and wanted ! I currently work at same place and I love it . Waheguru did save me before. In this case of sexuality too, he's my only hope. I hope he will save me miraculously again in terms of my sexual orientation. Other than him , I have no hope 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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Put your trust in Waheguru, and they will help you.

 Now is the time to connect to God, not 20/30yrs time. Kal kis ne dekha? Who has seen tomorrow?

Keep doing benti to Waheguru to lead you to the right path. 

 

 

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Bro, I genuinely believe you should get some professional help. It seems you're torn between your mind's desires and an admirable sense of loyalty and affection for your faith. That's a dangerous combination. That kind of prolonged and incessant inner turmoil is unhealthy and dangerous. It's not doing you any favours. You've probably shaved off years from your life with the stress. How much more can you take?

There's no point in lashing out at mainstream Sikh society. Sure, it'll make you feel better for a while, exposing those entrenched hypocrisies and double standards that are rife in all people, but long-term it's not of any use in solving your problems.

I think you're afraid of any potential spiritual consequences for travelling down the path of fulfilling your homosexual urges. Equally, I also think you'd love to be "cured" of any such desires. It's a tough one. You seem to be in so much mental and emotional conflict. 

I'm not gay so I don't feel quite right about saying, "Stop being gay" regardless of whether homosexuality is learned behaviour or a genetic defect. Either way only you can choose what to do. As much as you'd like the best of both worlds, I don't think that's quite the best way, but I could be wrong.

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

Bro, I genuinely believe you should get some professional help. It seems you're torn between your mind's desires and an admirable sense of loyalty and affection for your faith. That's a dangerous combination. That kind of prolonged and incessant inner turmoil is unhealthy and dangerous. It's not doing you any favours. You've probably shaved off years from your life with the stress. How much more can you take?

There's no point in lashing out at mainstream Sikh society. Sure, it'll make you feel better for a while, exposing those entrenched hypocrisies and double standards that are rife in all people, but long-term it's not of any use in solving your problems.

I think you're afraid of any potential spiritual consequences for travelling down the path of fulfilling your homosexual urges. Equally, I also think you'd love to be "cured" of any such desires. It's a tough one. You seem to be in so much mental and emotional conflict. 

I'm not gay so I don't feel quite right about saying, "Stop being gay" regardless of whether homosexuality is learned behaviour or a genetic defect. Either way only you can choose what to do. As much as you'd like the best of both worlds, I don't think that's quite the best way, but I could be wrong.

I think you're spot on almost everything.

Professional help ? LGBT people mostly don't like religion, and religious people won't like LGBT. Where is common grounds where I can get professional help. 

A gay counsellor might tell me that my religion is bogus and I should just enjoy life , while an amritdhari gyaani will tell me to shake off those desires and warn me of how gay lust will ruin me spiritually . But aren't these 2 persons inside me now ! yes thats the intense emotional conflict 

I have begin to get forgetful lately. I can't focus on anything else , my will power is severly reduced. I fear ! 

Yes I have literally wasted my 20s in this :'( Thats the reason I went to gay party last night (invited by friend). Although the tobacco smoke suffocated me and I don't drink the depression was only that "What the hell am I gonna do rest of my mountain-like big life ahead of me? While rest of my peers get married and settle, am I to steer in life without supports ? What when mom and dad pass, considering I have no siblings".

Thinking about my future does give me shivers. Because its like staring into abyss . 

My life has become like a horror movie. And there seems no end to this. I curse myself what kind of bad karam I did to deserve this :/ I see no way of getting out of this 

 

 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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I feel for you bro. I don't have any answers to your dilemma myself, but I think there is a lot to be said for living day to day, when the future holds so much uncertainty. 

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4 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I feel for you bro. I don't have any answers to your dilemma myself, but I think there is a lot to be said for living day to day, when the future holds so much uncertainty. 

I can't "live day to day"  either . :/ 

my parents keep pressuring to marry me. I told them about me 2 yrs back. They went in denial. 

Waheguru has blessed me with a job I wanted. Since then, I have felt his presence with me. I have always felt he conspired things in my favor.

Whenever I feel sad, I talk to SGGS via 'ardas', and 'hukamnama' I get , I consider it as guru ji's answer.

Guru Sahib have mostly said he will take care of me and I will be happy. I have no idea how things are going to come in future.

I too want a family of my own. A kid I can hold . But who will marry their daughter to an impotent guy like me ?! 

And i can't marry a lesbian , considering most of them are not my type. Its really so tough . And i can't suicide either. 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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35 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Guru Sahib have mostly said he will take care of me and I will be happy. 

That's something to build on.

You've had a spiritual experience - I'm assuming - which has given you this insight. That's something regular religious people crave, and yet it never comes to most. If you believe God has extended his hand of support to you, then why do you run in the opposite direction? If you have an inkling of what He expects from you, then why spurn the opportunity?

If I thought you were capable I'd give you a 5 point plan of action that would go some way to solving most of your issues. The problem is, and this is not a joke, I don't think you're strong enough yet. You've not felt the kind of pain that would automatically re-order and re-prioritise your thoughts, your outlook on life, and your plans for the future, without the need for any third party to say a word to you in support. You're still straddling the line between hoping for a respectable and brighter future but also wanting to indulge yourself like your peers.

The parents and marriage angle is an added complication. On that front I suggest you not drag an innocent girl into matters. When she discovers your sexuality - and she will sooner or later; don't for a moment assume you'll be able to live a double life - things will get very messy. That's one thing I can recommend with certainty. 

For the record, if I was you, I'd walk away from everything. I'd become Gursikh, take a vow of celibacy (and that means ALL forms of saucy business), and dedicate my life to seva. Just don't expect any "rewards" or such things. A life of honour, respect, and self-sacrifice. You would need to put a leash on your wandering mind and prove to yourself that you're better than the majority of people who flap their gums about being "true" Sikhs. But I don't think you've reached that place where you've developed the mental toughness and determination to live out your days in that manner. It's not fair, but then life never is.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! I can't understand what you are going through right now; however, you could adopt a kid and raise it as a single parent, there's many of them who need care and nuturing. Ultimately you need to decide soon whether to follow your Sikhi or to decide on homosexuality, (even though I wish you'd pick Guru Sahib, it's your decision), being conflicted will not help you mentally and will only hurt you in the end. (Your idea of delaying the battle will only ruin your jeevan regardless which path you choose, as, "ਗ੝ਨ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਾਇਓ ਨਹੀ ਜਨਮ੝ ਅਕਾਰਥ ਕੀਨ੝ ॥Gun gobind gĝio nahī janam akĝrath kīn. If you do not sing the Praises of the Lord, your life is rendered useless" (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1426).)  Gay conversion therapy doesn't work, so you can't unnaturally change your orientation unless your sexuality is fluid. Hopefully you can find your way. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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2 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! I can't understand what you are going through right now; however, you could adopt a kid and raise it as a single parent, there's many of them who need care and nuturing. Ultimately you need to decide soon whether to follow your Sikhi or to decide on homosexuality, (even though I wish you'd pick Guru Sahib, it's your decision), being conflicted will not help you mentally and will only hurt you in the end. (Your idea of delaying the battle will only ruin your jeevan regardless which path you choose, as, "ਗ੝ਨ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਾਇਓ ਨਹੀ ਜਨਮ੝ ਅਕਾਰਥ ਕੀਨ੝ ॥Gun gobind gĝio nahī janam akĝrath kīn. If you do not sing the Praises of the Lord, your life is rendered useless" (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1426).)  Gay conversion therapy doesn't work, so you can't unnaturally change your orientation unless your sexuality is fluid. Hopefully you can find your way. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Why must he choose between sikhi and homosexuality?

Genuine humble question ji

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54 minutes ago, S4NGH said:

Why must he choose between sikhi and homosexuality?

Genuine humble question ji

Homosexuality marriage is not accepted in Gurmat, neither is fornication and adultery, 

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I sorry that you are in a dilemma. I cannot help because of course marriage won't be an option.  I will say what I may have done if I was in your shoes but please don't pinpoint my reply and criticise.  I'm not saying this is the right thing. 

I would perhaps consider two options. Firstly I'd try and live behangam. Some singhs try it anyway. So you would  still be attracted to men but wouldnt take any action to fulfil any desire and maybe sacrifice love. I know that is a huge and almost impossible thing. If I was too weak to chose that path I'd consider practising sikhi without taking amrit so you are still good at heart and can also make love to a special person regardless of the gender. 

People may judge me but readinh the OP situation I dont think we have the right to tell him to sacrifices his sexuality. Please be happy and find a way whatever it may be. I feel sad that there's so much unhappiness and dukh.in the end its all to do with emotions. Thats everything.  Maybe if youre luck you could find another guy who is in the exact same situation and help each other. Sorry if I have said anything misleading I genuinely want to know you are happy. 

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3 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Homosexuality marriage is not accepted in Gurmat, neither is fornication and adultery, 

That I am aware of.

He can still be gay and sikh if he chooses to avoid the above. I mean he could indulge in them and be sikh... that would be his decision and he alone will pay the price

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2 hours ago, Guest Kaur said:

I sorry that you are in a dilemma. I cannot help because of course marriage won't be an option.  I will say what I may have done if I was in your shoes but please don't pinpoint my reply and criticise.  I'm not saying this is the right thing. 

I would perhaps consider two options. Firstly I'd try and live behangam. Some singhs try it anyway. So you would  still be attracted to men but wouldnt take any action to fulfil any desire and maybe sacrifice love. I know that is a huge and almost impossible thing. If I was too weak to chose that path I'd consider practising sikhi without taking amrit so you are still good at heart and can also make love to a special person regardless of the gender. 

People may judge me but readinh the OP situation I dont think we have the right to tell him to sacrifices his sexuality. Please be happy and find a way whatever it may be. I feel sad that there's so much unhappiness and dukh.in the end its all to do with emotions. Thats everything.  Maybe if youre luck you could find another guy who is in the exact same situation and help each other. Sorry if I have said anything misleading I genuinely want to know you are happy. 

Waheguru

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59 minutes ago, S4NGH said:

That I am aware of.

He can still be gay and sikh if he chooses to avoid the above. I mean he could indulge in them and be sikh... that would be his decision and he alone will pay the price

Nothing he mentioned said anything about him being celibate. He says that he wants to have kids and whatnot. Honestly don't think he's mentally strong enough at current moment for celibacy if his mind keeps going all over the place without the orientation problems, add that complication and he will be depressed without extremely high commitment. If he married an innocent girl and added her to the equation it would make his life totally difficult not just for himself but everyone else as well. 

@AjeetSinghPunjabi The only thing I can ask you to do at this point is keep following Gurmat to the best of your ability, with Bhagti and Amrit Vela, so even if you do fall; you won't go complete rock bottom, and DON'T go to clubs and all that, regardless if your straight or gay, as these clubs will only brainwash your jeevan to an extent that is even worse than if you hypothetically were staring at porn 24/7.

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Thank you for all you replies. You took the time to read my lengthy post and then answer it .

I will share something happened with me 2 yrs back . This is the only incident which pinned me back to guru ji and still it keeps my faith and hope alive. This is a little long post , but I hope it inspires you as well :

I used to be on this forum in 2010 as well. Its the same year I graduated. Then I applied for masters because I was too scared to apply for a job, fearing rejection.

Due to weak-minded nature, I spiralled down procrastination and laziness, I couldn't complete my masters despite repeated attempts. Then another few years passed , It was already 2015. 

In 2015, I was searching for a job haplessly. and that too in IT. who would hire a fresher who graduated 5 yrs ago ?

I still remember so vividly. It was may 1st, 2015. I walked a stretch of road in utter desperation returning from an interview. Its as if my soul cried that day . 

I used to be agnostic /atheistic  those days. The next day , on may 2nd, I was traveling back to another place for an interview. I remember a voice from inside told me 

"There are 11 gurus. Vow to serve in guru's langar for 11 sundays. You shall be blessed". And as if my heart instantly nodded with "yes".

The interview went fine. I remember there was a gurudwara sahib in front of the office. The nishan sahib was clearly visible and I kept praying even while waiting inside the building, looking towards gurudwara.

In the evening, I came back . My dad calls up and asks "how many vacancies and how many people?" . When I replied, he suggested I will not make it . This depressed me again. 

I came back tired to home. I was depressed. I remember , the next day was a sunday. I still remember it so vividly , I was sitting on sofa with a sad look on my face. 

Mom came up and said "I am going to gurudwara. Might as well do sewa there rather than sitting sadly here". I was reminded of that 11-week-sewa vow. 

So I served langar and did cleaning of big cauldrons. And while watching one dark with "soot" , I still remember my heart prayed "Oh lord, as I clear away the dark soot from this , please clear darkness from my life."

Somewhere , at some point in my life, someone had perhaps taught me that if u feel alone and need some guidance of guru sahib, u can always take a hukam after doing ardas.

I did ardas in front of SGGS. In the ardas , I mistakenly said "I did sewa guru sahib. you please bless me with a job".

I was surprised by the shabad that came :

Quote


ਮਃ ੩ ॥

Third Mehl:

ਆਪੇ ਸੇਵਾ ਲਾਇਅਨੁ ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸ ਕਰੇਇ ॥

He Himself enjoins us to serve Him, and He Himself blesses us with forgiveness.

ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਮਾ ਪਿਉ ਆਪਿ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਸਾਰ ਕਰੇਇ ॥

He Himself is the father and mother of all; He Himself cares for us.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਨਿ ਤਿਨ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਸੋਭਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

O Nanak, those who meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, abide in the home of their inner being; they are honored throughout the ages. ||2||

So it was like Guru ji said "Beta, u didn't do sewa. I made u do it and I will bless u (baksh) for it". My heart lit up. And to be honest, this was only the starting of what followed.

Long story short : My job offer letter was kept on hold. I kept waiting for one and a half month. Later I came to knew the company had some internal restructuring and therefore the offer got canceled. I became sad . But guru ji were to bless me with something far bigger ! 

I went to all these interviews via the placement agency that is attached to the place where I did my course from.

The guy there sympathized with my cause because I kept waiting for 1 and a half month but didn't get it. He said he will recommend me to whichever client (company) came next to him. He told me "tomorrow , some other company is coming". It was my sanjog that they were offering the same job profile what I wanted and better pay than the job I had earlier kept my hope on.

NOW , you won't believe how things unfolded . Its as if universe conspired to get me in that office and fulfil my desire.

The next day , I went to their placement agency. I remember they made a list of freshly graduated 25 engineering graduates and they had only 4 vacancies . I on the other hand wasn't even on the list. I was only being recommended by this placement guy. The HR manager saw my resume and told the placement guy "I don't see any merit in him."

But due to insistence, they finally agreed to take me in interview rounds. First it was written test. I was sure I am gonna not make it even through the first round . 

I kept randomly answering each MCQ. I was told I had cleared round 1 . I was shocked ! 

Then round 2 happened same day. It was personal interview with manager and one senior software developer. 

I was later informed I had cleared round 2. I was stunned ! 

I had to go a couple of days later to their office (where I work now since 1 year 7 months) for machine test round. I still remember I was still depressed and couldn't bring myself to study anything. I finally, with little courage, read one page of the book.

I remember going to machine round with surety that I will not miraculously clear this one unlike the ones I cleared previously. 

As I started typing the source code, I was amazed from where I got all the intelligence to finally clear it . I was stunned ! What I had read on that one page, that alone came in test. 

I came out of the office with a smile on my face ! 

One final round was still remaining. personal interview with managing director .

For some reason, after talking with me, the MD was impressed and decided to hire me. The HR manager told him not to be in a hurry and that he had more candidates. But the MD didn't care. The HR manager came inside and said "We were going to think of whom to select , in the evening, but I can tell you , you're selected."

I can't tell the amount of joy I had that day as I left the office and knowing god has blessed me with such a beautiful and grand workplace ! 

As I came back , I again did shukrana ardas to guru ji and shabad came once again (which had come previously to me several times before )

Quote
ਟੋਡੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

Todee, Fifth Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨ ਰਿਦੈ ਉਰ ਧਾਰੇ ॥

I have enshrined the Lord's Feet within my heart.

ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅਪੁਨਾ ਕਾਰਜ ਸਫਲ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Contemplating my Lord and Master, my True Guru, all my affairs have been resolved. ||1||Pause||

Later on i got to know that there was an existing high performance sardar guy in office and because of impression he created on manager and md, i got through. So much kamaal of turban. 


So it came to pass ! I will not forget this incident my whole life. To this day, in form of shukrana , I keep my dasvand, because this rizak was given to me by god .

I can never thank him enough . I really hope he does something similar miracle for me in terms of my sexuality.

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi
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RIght now I am leaving for job. Will take again on this topic with you guys , in this thread. I have to ..

thank you so much for your help . 

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4 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

and considering marriage is for lifetime . Before you accuse me of basing marriage on lust, like I was accused so in another thread, let me ask you "Would you marry , or expect any heterosexual to marry someone blindly, just for sake of reproducing? Do you call a young person lustful when they seek good partners for marriage ?"

You want a companion like rest of the heterosexual sikh couples?  There are many examples of sikhs who don't get married and absorb themselves in seva.  Read the life story of Bhagat Puran Singh ji.  Moh and kaam go hand in hand when talking about life companionship.  

Guru sahib teaches us, look for that companion who will join us to Akal Purakh.  You have many worldly desires and they are mentally blocking you from seeing the infinity knowledge in the few Gurbani lines you provided.

Quote
ਟੋਡੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

Todee, Fifth Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨ ਰਿਦੈ ਉਰ ਧਾਰੇ ॥

I have enshrined the Lord's Feet within my heart.

ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅਪੁਨਾ ਕਾਰਜ ਸਫਲ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Contemplating my Lord and Master, my True Guru, all my affairs have been resolved. ||1||Pause||

Ask yourself, how does a person behold the Gurus feet in their mind?  What actions do i need to do?  From the time you open your eyes to the time you get into bed.  Analyze your entire day and thoughts.  Read Gurbani and gain the tools to analyze your thoughts.  Read Anand Sahib.  Study this paath, analyze each word and search for a deeper meaning than you hold in your mind.  A good student always practice pronunciation of Gurbani and learns the deeper meaning.  Singing Gurbani with proper pronunciation develops satisfaction in a person.  

 

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If i do believe in karma, u might be aware of karmas full theory

 

karma is not just ehat u do, u will get

karmas can de edited, deleted and make, by naam simran, guru sahibs while baani says that naam can delete bad karma

 

thanks

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On 1/29/2017 at 10:43 PM, MisterrSingh said:

That's something to build on.

You've had a spiritual experience - I'm assuming - which has given you this insight. That's something regular religious people crave, and yet it never comes to most. If you believe God has extended his hand of support to you, then why do you run in the opposite direction? If you have an inkling of what He expects from you, then why spurn the opportunity?

If I thought you were capable I'd give you a 5 point plan of action that would go some way to solving most of your issues. The problem is, and this is not a joke, I don't think you're strong enough yet. You've not felt the kind of pain that would automatically re-order and re-prioritise your thoughts, your outlook on life, and your plans for the future, without the need for any third party to say a word to you in support. You're still straddling the line between hoping for a respectable and brighter future but also wanting to indulge yourself like your peers.

The parents and marriage angle is an added complication. On that front I suggest you not drag an innocent girl into matters. When she discovers your sexuality - and she will sooner or later; don't for a moment assume you'll be able to live a double life - things will get very messy. That's one thing I can recommend with certainty. 

For the record, if I was you, I'd walk away from everything. I'd become Gursikh, take a vow of celibacy (and that means ALL forms of saucy business), and dedicate my life to seva. Just don't expect any "rewards" or such things. A life of honour, respect, and self-sacrifice. You would need to put a leash on your wandering mind and prove to yourself that you're better than the majority of people who flap their gums about being "true" Sikhs. But I don't think you've reached that place where you've developed the mental toughness and determination to live out your days in that manner. It's not fair, but then life never is.

I don't wish to spurn the opportunity but i can't bring myself to that strict,  disciplined lifestyle of a dedicated gursikh either . 

Why would i bring an innocent girl in this matter. I m already reaping fruit of watever horrible i might have done in my past life. 

Sometimes when i look at seriousness of things, i find myself having a very serious and holistic view of life. Holistic because then i feel life is not only this birth, rather even wat is after death is life too. And considering i hv burnt my hands once already,  i don't wish to do it again knowingly or unknowingly. 

I fear for my karams.  On an advice of gursikh i started taking out my dasvand as well 

When i die, i don't wanna half cart load of bad karams with me. 

Whatever mistakes of bad karma gave me this homosexual birth forces me to review life and tread very carefully in this garden full of roses and landmines. 

But yet D spite knowing so much, my mind is not able to bring itself to commit to gursikhi lifestyle. The maya still lures 

🙁

 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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On 1/30/2017 at 1:37 AM, S4NGH said:

Why must he choose between sikhi and homosexuality?

Genuine humble question ji

I don't think issue is of gay, its of lust. Many ppl associate lust with homosexuality and vice versa when infact from a religious view point lust is anything that involves sex which doesn't lead to reproduction. So even heterosexual sex of a gursikh couple having it with contraceptives is haraam. Its not parvaan to guru. Its unnatural in exactly the same sense "holier than thou " ppl call homosexuality unnatural. Animals don't do it with contraceptives , neither do contraceptives grows on trees. Tell me how the hell is sex of such nature then "natural"? 

But i wouldn't be surprised if most of u disagree with me on this one because its heterosexual. We often don't see our own shortcomings as a group. I know u will probably think i m being arrogant now but i m just humbly pointing out the double standards we often unknowingly have.

 

Guru sahib has spoken against lust and in favor of monogamy . In olden days, ppl wud marry their kids at early age because they knew once teenage kicked in, they might commit adultery. 

Even guru sahib rejected the total rejection of sexuality. Within marriage, its not just acceptable, but honored. 

But million dollar question is What if marriage is not an option to someone like a poor homosexual man?  

Why would god judge his sexuality same way as he would to a heterosexual man who commits adultery even when he has a dharmic wife at home who feeds him well and does his chores. 

I have always felt (and i say this without any political intentions)  this is why waheguru supported the lgbt rights movement. Otherwise  i don't think they wud hv even succeeded so far with odds so badly stocked against them in west just till a few decades back. 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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On 1/30/2017 at 6:58 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

Nothing he mentioned said anything about him being celibate. He says that he wants to have kids and whatnot. Honestly don't think he's mentally strong enough at current moment for celibacy if his mind keeps going all over the place without the orientation problems, add that complication and he will be depressed without extremely high commitment. If he married an innocent girl and added her to the equation it would make his life totally difficult not just for himself but everyone else as well. 

@AjeetSinghPunjabi The only thing I can ask you to do at this point is keep following Gurmat to the best of your ability, with Bhagti and Amrit Vela, so even if you do fall; you won't go complete rock bottom, and DON'T go to clubs and all that, regardless if your straight or gay, as these clubs will only brainwash your jeevan to an extent that is even worse than if you hypothetically were staring at porn 24/7.

Veeeji,  and nowhere i said i am sleeping here and there. Well since u wondered, let me say i m 27 and a virgin in all possible ways. 

Yes, my idea is of amritvela and gurbani, i always desire to feel connected to guru in someway or other even if its a mere kada on my hand. 

Fighting all odds, i will try to establish an amritvela. And simran.

I wonder wat happens if one commits something as supposedly sinful as gay sex and amritvela and nam simran together. 

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2 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I don't think issue is of gay, its of lust. Many ppl associate lust with homosexuality and vice versa when infact from a religious view point lust is anything that involves sex which doesn't lead to reproduction. So even heterosexual sex of a gursikh couple having it with contraceptives is haraam. Its not parvaan to guru. Its unnatural in exactly the same sense "holier than thou " ppl call homosexuality unnatural. Animals don't do it with contraceptives , neither do contraceptives grows on trees. Tell me how the hell is sex of such nature then "natural"? 

But i wouldn't be surprised if most of u disagree with me on this one because its heterosexual. We often don't see our own shortcomings as a group. I know u will probably think i m being arrogant now but i m just humbly pointing out the double standards we often unknowingly have.

 

Guru sahib has spoken against lust and in favor of monogamy . In olden days, ppl wud marry their kids at early age because they knew once teenage kicked in, they might commit adultery. 

Even guru sahib rejected the total rejection of sexuality. Within marriage, its not just acceptable, but honored. 

But million dollar question is What if marriage is not an option to someone like a poor homosexual man?  

Why would god judge his sexuality same way as he would to a heterosexual man who commits adultery even when he has a dharmic wife. 

I have always felt (and i say this without any political intentions)  this is why waheguru supported the lgbt rights movement. Otherwise  i don't think they wud hv even succeeded so far 

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fateh ji

Marriage is not necessary! & there is no rule where it says gays cannot marry women. Im pretty sure everyone is bisexual to some extent anyways, since it is so silly for someone to say that they only can find love with a certain gender, now is that true love? Say someone's spouse's sex changed.. would they not accept them anymore? Anyways (to the point), in Sikhi we are actually trying to get rid of lust.. Marriage is ideal for men and women because that is the way procreation can happen, other than that, what else can a couple do that is exclusive to marriage? Love, which most couples have is related to moh, and moh is also something that is not needed.. Some say that marriage is not just for procreation, but for a life partner to travel in a spiritual journey with.. But we have the satsangat for that too. Are people in ashrams lacking spiritual partners? No!  You are very blessed to be born into a dharmic, financially stable, and healthy family! You have it all, but please don't compare the anand of sex+moh which does not last, with everlasting anand. Plenty of people who have sex+moh are still feeling the lack of something (aka dharma). Dharma is something that will diminish your yearning towards the 5 dukhs kaam/krodh/lobh/moh/ahankar. If you are not amritdhari, then maybe you should get a boyfriend, and realize that true happiness is from within, and not needed from something else who will also perish one day. 

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4 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Veeeji,  and nowhere i said i am sleeping here and there. Well since u wondered, let me say i m 27 and a virgin in all possible ways. 

Yes, my idea is of amritvela and gurbani, i always desire to feel connected to guru in someway or other even if its a mere kada on my hand. 

Fighting all odds, i will try to establish an amritvela. And simran.

I wonder wat happens if one commits something as supposedly sinful as gay sex and amritvela and nam simran together. 

The term celibate relates to a commitment; while Virginity is related to the current situation, also even if you were straight you shouldn't be going to clubs anyway. Your hypothetical question has no answer, each act is judged individually in the house of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, you will if you have Karmic Debt have to pay all your Karmic Debt, unless you get Guru's grace. You will rewarded for your Simran/Amritvela but separately will have to be punished for Kaam, the 2 are not mutually exclusive, and we are not Hindus that believe in such things.

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4 hours ago, Preeet said:

Im pretty sure everyone is bisexual to some extent anyways, since it is so silly for someone to say that they only can find love with a certain gender, now is that true love? 

I'm straight completely, have never wanted a Kaamic relationship ever with another man.

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Human Sexual Variants

In the Sikh scriptural literature we find use of six words – nipounsak, kaapurakh, baanjh, sanddhi, hijra and khusra – that reflect on the abnormalities in sexual state of the individual. The words baanjh and sanddhi are used in relation to females, and the other four mainly for males and sometimes for both sexes. The word nipounsak has been used in Akal Ustat and by Bhai Gurdas and the word kaapurakh has been used by Guru Arjan. The word hijra has been used by Bhai Gurdas. The word khusra has been used by Guru Nanak, Bhagat Kabir and Bhai Gurdas.

Let us now look at some quotes that may help us grasp the drift of Sikh view and provide any clues regarding societal attitudes towards or about persons who would have been labeled nipounsak, kaapurakh, baanjh, sanddhi, hijra or khusra.

Dasam Granth says in Akal Ustat that men, women and nipounsak, all have been created by God the same way as he has created several other living and sentient beings. The verse does identify nipounsak humans created by divine will as separate from and in addition to men and women, suggesting recognition of existence of a third sex other than male/female binary.

Bhai Gurdas has used the word purakh nipounsak for males in conjunction with baanjh and baanjh badhoo in two separate compositions. This suggests that purakh nipounsak [and not nipounsak alone] is the equivalent of baanjh among females, leaving the word nipounsak as an asexual expression for a third sex/gender. Witness the quotes: a purakh nipounsak does not know the joy of having progeny nor is a baanjh able to envision the peace that love of children brings. In a kabit he writes that neither baanjh badhoo [barren wife] nor purakh nipounsak can have children, asking how you can produce butter by churning water; both indicating that only purakh nipounsak corresponds to baanjh or baanjh wife i.e. word baanjh is for females but nipounsak needs to be qualified to be applied to the male gender.

The interpretation of the word kaapurakh presents relatively little complexity. It essentially is a word used for a male seen as being low, worthless, timid, impotent or inadequate man. It has been used only once in gurbani in a verse that says: ‘The servant of har does not associate with faithless cynic. One is in the clutches of vice, while the other is in love with Raam. It would be like the illusion of a rider riding a decked up horse, or a kaapurakh caressing a woman or tying an ox by the noose and trying to milk it or riding a cow to chase a tiger’ – all futile exercises.

Let us now look at the sense that the word hijra has been used to convey. We find that hijra has only been used by Bhai Gurdas twice in his vaars. In one instance the word comes in the title of pauri 11, vaar 36 which says: guru heen hijra hai – hijras are they who have no Guru or in obverse one who does not have the guidance of a guru is as bad as a hijra – such a man is just spinning wheels.
Then in another pauri he says: ‘Many are blind and many one-eyed. Many are small eyed and many suffer from night-blindness. Many are with clipped noses, many deaf and many are earless. Many are suffering from goiter, and many have tumors in their organs. Many are maimed ones, bald, without hands and stricken with leprosy. Many are suffering for being disabled, cripple and hunchback. Many khusray, many heejray, many are dumb and many stammer, – – away from the perfect Guru they will all remain in the cycle of transmigration.’ In this verse by Bhai Gurdas has mentioned khusras and hijras with those human beings who had either congenital defects or who otherwise suffered from an incurable or difficult to cure condition. In other words these people were seen as suffering from some manifest or internal malady or inadequacy. His concluding line may imply that many of these people in those times may have been drifting to various gods and goddesses and suggests that absent the true Guru, none of them could achieve liberation. 
Guru Nanak has used the word khusra, when he asks: what can deep water do to a fish or the vast sky do to a bird or cold do to a stone or married life [ghar vaas, grihast] to a khusra? He goes on to give many more examples in verses that follow and concludes that a fool similarly has a nature that does not discern wisdom and everything that he speaks is useless and a waste. This suggests that the Guru has likened state of grihasti in the life of a khusra as of no consequence the same way as the depth of water is to fish or expanse of sky is to a bird or cold weather is to stone.

A verse by Kabir that ‘if celibacy could have saved, why have khusras not obtained the state of supreme dignity’ also leaves the position of khusras in the realm of speculation. It seems that khusras as a group were bereft of any exemplars. Even the accounts of harem guards are more about the illicit liaisons of the rich rather than about the deeds of khusras as committed protectors of the virtues of harem ladies.

For women the words – baanjh and sanddhi – have been used to reflect either their inability to bear children or physical or psychological abhorrence to sex. An example of a verse using baanjh has been cited earlier. Witness some verses using the word sanddhi: ‘A sanddhi woman cannot have a son, nor can women enjoy sex with khusras.’ In another verse Bhai Gurdas is empathetic about infertility of sanddhis: ‘All the queens conceive and one or two come out to be barren. For this, no king or queen is to be blamed; all this is due to the writ of previous births.’ In yet another composition he has included sanddhi along with several others who have demerits; witness: ‘Millions of frogs, cranes, conches, desert cacti plants, camel, thorns (javas) black snakes; silk cotton trees, owls, ruddy sheldrakes, ladles, elephants, barren women; stones, crows, patients, donkeys, black blankets; seedless sesame plants, castor, colocynths; buds, oleanders are there (in the world). I have vices/inadequacies of all these in me.

Bhai Gurdas also says: ‘Wearing five garments one may assume the garb of a male person. He may have beautiful beard and moustaches and a slim body. Wielder of a hundred weapons he may be counted among prominent knights. He may be an adept courtier and widely known throughout the country. But without masculinity, of what use is he to a woman?’

From the above broad presentation we can deduce that in Sikhi grihast is created only by the union of man and woman. There is no suggestion that some people were created homosexual abhorring heterosexual relations. Even celibate sanyasi secretly pined for women. There were persons who were born other than man and woman, and there were men and women who suffered from sexual inadequacies or malfunctions but impotence and infertility were seen as a writ of past deeds. Same sex adulation was not an expression of sexual desire for the person of the same sex – it embellished friendship. 

We know very little if at all about hijras and khusras and their existence in early Sikh social and religious life. Hijras and khusras among Sikhs could have been living in the same kind of anonymity then as they do today. The tenor of these verses therefore should not be read as condemnatory or demeaning but possibly the quotes say the way things were then – these people were stigmatized and the hijras or their gurus obviously could not hold favor with the Sikhs subsumed in devotion of their Gurus and life of grihasti.

Source - http://www.sikhsandsociety.org/sex-marriages-lgbt-issues/

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