Proof that Sri Chand handed over his sect to Guru Hargobind Sahib Jee!

[Balkaar]

33 posts and nobody's thought to question the stunning leap of logic which maintains that the acceptance of Sikhi by one disciple of Sri Chand means that Sri Chand also accepted Sikhi?  It's like saying Jesus wore sneakers because some of his disciples today wear sneakers. 

The only proof of Sri Chand's acceptance of Sikhi would be Sri Chand's acceptance of Sikhi, not Mehar Chand's or anyone else's.

 

 

[Koi]

I for one do not care whether Baba Sri Chand Ji Maharaj accepted Sikhi in the conventional sense. They are to be given the utmost reverence as the Sahibzade of Jagat Guru Sri Satguru Nanak Sahib Ji. They were greatly respected by subsequent Gurus also.

[Kira]

1 hour ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

next time you at har mandir sahib go to the where the present day akhara is and speak to attendents. Also You have yet to provide any evidence baba sri chand asked for baba gurditta? in addition to my knowledge baba mohan eldest son of guru amar das ji also stayed with baba sri chand. Baba sri chand passed away at Kiratpur.... I just dont think it is as black and white as you seem to be presenting.

You just toldme don't  take others words for anything yet you'll take what someone else told you and treat it as fact? The actual fact is that Pritam Das Ji planted that tree, he's a well known Udasi and the same attendants who are telling you this are most likely nothing more than voicepieces who haven't done their own homework.  Further more Baba Sri Chand didn't pass away in kirtarpur, Comtemporary sources (and what the Udasis say) say that he disappeared near the chamba hills.

 

Further more if you want evidence of Baba Gurditta being given to Baba Sri Chand then I will refer to just about every history book around regarding the subject. Further more if you want proof from a more contemporary source read the literature by Teja Singh Ji which details this very incidence. 

 

 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

1 hour ago, Koi said:

I for one do not care whether Baba Sri Chand Ji Maharaj accepted Sikhi in the conventional sense. They are to be given the utmost reverence as the Sahibzade of Jagat Guru Sri Satguru Nanak Sahib Ji. They were greatly respected by subsequent Gurus also.

Would you respect Dhir Mal, Ram Rai, or any other random Sodhi today just for them being related to Guru Sahib in some way? You know who else is related to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Amitabh Bachchan. And if you go towards his physical ancestors, then you should be bowing to Ram. That is a weak logic to respect someone simply because of who they are related to. Datu kicked Guru Sahib do you support him as well?

[jkvlondon]

6 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Would you respect Dhir Mal, Ram Rai, or any other random Sodhi today just for them being related to Guru Sahib in some way? You know who else is related to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Amitabh Bachchan. And if you go towards his physical ancestors, then you should be bowing to Ram. That is a weak logic to respect someone simply because of who they are related to. Datu kicked Guru Sahib do you support him as well?

veer ji great point , Datu  assaults your Guru ji because of irka so do you support your Guru ji or say that Datu is his equal/better because Guru Amar Das ji showed him respect  and apologized with nimrata ?

Nobody worships Prithi Chand just because he was Guru Arjan Dev ji's older brother and Guru Ram Das ji's son too...why is that ? because despite being a son his conduct was not sikh like ...and that is the key those who acted like obedient sikhs they were drawn close , the disobedient distanced ...

[Kira]

2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

veer ji great point , Datu  assaults your Guru ji because of irka so do you support your Guru ji or say that Datu is his equal/better because Guru Amar Das ji showed him respect  and apologized with nimrata ?

Nobody worships Prithi Chand just because he was Guru Arjan Dev ji's older brother and Guru Ram Das ji's son too...why is that ? because despite being a son his conduct was not sikh like ...and that is the key those who acted like obedient sikhs they were drawn close , the disobedient distanced ...

ਬਾਲ ਜਤੀ ਹੈ ਸਿਰੀਚੰਦੁ ਬਾਬਾਣਾ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਬਣਾਇਆ।
Baal Jatee Hai Sireechandu Baabaanaa Dayhuraa Banaaiaa.
बाल जती है सिरीचंदु बाबाणा देहुरा बणाइआ ।
Sirichand ( the elder son of Guru Nanak) is celebate since childhood who has constructed the monument ( in memory) of Guru Nanak.
1 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੧

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ਲਖਮੀ ਦਾਸਹੁ ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਪੋਤਾ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਆਪੁ ਗਣਾਇਆ।
Lakhameedaasahu Dharamachand Potaa Hui Kai Aapu Ganaaiaa.
लखमीदासहु धरमचंद पोता हुइ कै आपु गणाइआ ।

ਬਾਲ ਜਤੀ ਹੈ ਸਿਰੀਚੰਦੁ ਬਾਬਾਣਾ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਬਣਾਇਆ।
Baal Jatee Hai Sireechandu Baabaanaa Dayhuraa Banaaiaa.
बाल जती है सिरीचंदु बाबाणा देहुरा बणाइआ ।
Sirichand ( the elder son of Guru Nanak) is celebate since childhood who has constructed the monument ( in memory) of Guru Nanak.
1 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੧

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ਲਖਮੀ ਦਾਸਹੁ ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਪੋਤਾ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਆਪੁ ਗਣਾਇਆ।
Lakhameedaasahu Dharamachand Potaa Hui Kai Aapu Ganaaiaa.
लखमीदासहु धरमचंद पोता हुइ कै आपु गणाइआ ।
Dharam chand son of Laksami Das ( second son of Guru Nanak) also made display of his egotism.
2 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੨

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ਮੰਜੀ ਦਾਸੁ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ ਦਾਤਾ ਸਿਧਾਸਣ ਸਿਖਿ ਆਇਆ।
Manjee Daasu Bahaaliaa Daataa Sidhaasan Sikhi Aaiaa.
मंजी दासु बहालिआ दाता सिधासण सिखि आइआ ।
Guru Angad's one son Dasu was made to sit on the seat of Guruship and the second son Data also learnt to sit in the siddh posture i.e. both the sons of Guru Angad Dev were pretender Guru and during the time of third Guru Amar Das they tried their best to
3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੩

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ਮੋਹਣੁ ਕਮਲਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਚਉਬਾਰਾ ਮੋਹਰੀ ਮਨਾਇਆ।
Mohanu Kamalaa Hoiaa Chaoubaaraa Moharee Manaaiaa.
मोहणु कमला होइआ चउबारा मोहरी मनाइआ ।
Mohan (son of Guru Amar Das) got afflicted and Mohart (the second son) lived in a lofty house and started getting served by the people.
4 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੪

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ਮੀਣਾ ਹੋਆ ਪਿਰਥੀਆ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਟੇਢਕ* ਬਰਲੁ ਚਲਾਇਆ।
Meenaa Hoaa Piradeeaa Kari Kari Tonddhak Baralu Chalaaiaa.
मीणा होआ पिरथीआ करि करि तोंढक बरलु चलाइआ ।
Prithichind (son of Guru Ram Das) came out as dissembling scoundrel and using his oblique nature spread his mental sickness all round.
5 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੫

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ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਅਹੰਮੇਉ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਬੇਮੁਖੁ ਕੁਤਾ* ਭਉਕਾਇਆ।
Mahaadayu Ahanmayu Kari Kari Baymoukhu Poutaan Bhaoukaaiaa.
महादेउ अहंमेउ करि करि बेमुखु पुतां भउकाइआ ।
Mahidev (another son of Guru Ram Das) was egotist who was also led astray.
6 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੬

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ਚੰਦਨ ਵਾਸੁ ਨ ਵਾਸ ਬੋਹਾਇਆ ॥੩੩॥
Chandan Vaasu N Vaas Bohaaiaa ॥33॥
चंदन वासु न वास बोहाइआ ॥३३॥
They all were like bamboos who though lived near sandal – Guru, yet could not become fragrant.
7 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੭

son of Laksami Das ( second son of Guru Nanak) also made display of his egotism.
2 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੨

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ਮੰਜੀ ਦਾਸੁ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ ਦਾਤਾ ਸਿਧਾਸਣ ਸਿਖਿ ਆਇਆ।
Manjee Daasu Bahaaliaa Daataa Sidhaasan Sikhi Aaiaa.
मंजी दासु बहालिआ दाता सिधासण सिखि आइआ ।
Guru Angad's one son Dasu was made to sit on the seat of Guruship and the second son Data also learnt to sit in the siddh posture i.e. both the sons of Guru Angad Dev were pretender Guru and during the time of third Guru Amar Das they tried their best to
3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੩

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ਮੋਹਣੁ ਕਮਲਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਚਉਬਾਰਾ ਮੋਹਰੀ ਮਨਾਇਆ।
Mohanu Kamalaa Hoiaa Chaoubaaraa Moharee Manaaiaa.
मोहणु कमला होइआ चउबारा मोहरी मनाइआ ।
Mohan (son of Guru Amar Das) got afflicted and Mohart (the second son) lived in a lofty house and started getting served by the people.
4 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੪

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ਮੀਣਾ ਹੋਆ ਪਿਰਥੀਆ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਟੇਢਕ* ਬਰਲੁ ਚਲਾਇਆ।
Meenaa Hoaa Piradeeaa Kari Kari Tonddhak Baralu Chalaaiaa.
मीणा होआ पिरथीआ करि करि तोंढक बरलु चलाइआ ।
Prithichind (son of Guru Ram Das) came out as dissembling scoundrel and using his oblique nature spread his mental sickness all round.
5 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੫

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ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਅਹੰਮੇਉ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਬੇਮੁਖੁ ਕੁਤਾ* ਭਉਕਾਇਆ।
Mahaadayu Ahanmayu Kari Kari Baymoukhu Poutaan Bhaoukaaiaa.
महादेउ अहंमेउ करि करि बेमुखु पुतां भउकाइआ ।
Mahidev (another son of Guru Ram Das) was egotist who was also led astray.
6 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੬

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ਚੰਦਨ ਵਾਸੁ ਨ ਵਾਸ ਬੋਹਾਇਆ ॥੩੩॥
Chandan Vaasu N Vaas Bohaaiaa ॥33॥
चंदन वासु न वास बोहाइआ ॥३३॥
They all were like bamboos who though lived near sandal – Guru, yet could not become fragrant.
7 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੩੩ ਪੰ. ੭

[Kira]

3 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

i haven't taken anything as fact.. i don't know how you keep making these leaps...

I never suggested the pritam das planted the tree. I have said and i shall say it again is that the it is my understanding based on first hand itihass from harmandir sahib "Guru Arjun Div ji invited baba sri chand to during its constructions" and it is on the site where he stayed that the current akhara is built.

All the sources i have ever read have always suggested that shortly before his death at kiratpur sri chand handover to baba gurditta. I am happy to look at all sources. I have no vested interest in the history other than to gain a richer understanding of it!

 

Bro, you presented something someone else told you. That was disproved yet you still stuck to it, despite Varan and Gurbani painting a different picture. If that isn't you sticking to something you think is fact then I'm not sure what is.

 

and once again, as everyone in this entire topic has said time and time again that is false. You have the audacity to call others armchair historians but when a random person (who most likely doesn't even have a degree in history let alone proper taksali education) told you something, you believed it. Evidence points to something counter, as does Gurbani. Baba Sri Chand was never at Harmandir Sahib, that's a load of tosh. Nor was Mohan, Bhai Gurdas Ji calls them inadequate in his varan. You need to stop saying things aren't black and white and just stick to what proper Brahmgyanis have said. This isn't a case of Black and White, Sri Chand rejected Sikhi, Baba Gurditta didn't, so when Baba Gurditta was handed the leadership of the sect he declared Guru Nanak Dev Ji as the supreme light of god. 

 

History tells a different tale, but if you want to believe the babbling of someone who'll make stuff up just to get a paycheck then by all means go ahead.

[Kira]

11 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Can you provide me with a comprehensive list of vetted brahmgianis... I think I'll stick to researching and learning myself thanks but I do welcome any recommended reading.

Your research includes talking to random people who'll tell you something and you'll take their word for it. I don't think you're in any position to act snarky about people who've devoted their entire lives to Guru Sahib. On one hand you're telling people not to be armchair historians and on the other hand you'll take someone else's word, and parade it on a platform lol. If you genuinely want better understanding, read Bhai Gurdas Ji's varan.

Thus far all you've done in terms of learning from here is try to push something 1 person has told you (a narrative no historian accepted or found proof of) and now you're acting like you sit down and do your own research.  make up your mind bro. Anyways goodluck in your endeavours, I just pray someone now doesn't tell you that Prithi Chand trying to kill Guru Hargobind Ji with a snake wasn't all black and white now. Or even when Guru Tegh Bahadur got shot by Dhir Mal's men. That wasn't all black and white.

[Kira]

5 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

i think you'll find that even your research,  evidence is positioned on you looking at the merits of it. Your shrill tones tells me everything i need to about how discerning you maybe.

 

S

Bro you asked for evidence, got evidence and the you just ignored it all. On top of that you started making snarky comments about Brahmgyanis in an attempt to position yourself in a better situation than them. Further more you spent the last posts harping on about historical evidence but when it completely contradicts you, what did you do? Decide to stick to what some uneducated simpleton told you over actual facts, call me shrill all you want but all you've done is shown people you're nothing more than a hypocrite.

[jkvlondon]

3 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

i think you'll find that even your research,  evidence is positioned on you looking at the merits of it. Your shrill tones tells me everything i need to about how discerning you maybe.

 

S

bro , we are giving quotes from Gurbani and Bhai Gurdas vaaran which Guru ji approved of and still you are being funny about it ? I don't understand are you saying that Guru Sahiban and their Hazoori Sikhs are not telling the truth or are somehow distorting it as compared to your mortal historian speaking of events way before his time ?  There is a concerted effort by anti-sikh elements to insert and elevate Sri Chand's status within Sikhi to that competing with Gurmat as taught by Guru Sahiban , this is so wrong and people need to be careful that they don't end up falling for the cul-de-sac that is Sri Chand worship.