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Marrying from back home

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Guest Wondering   
Guest Wondering

Hi all.

I just want to ask how comman is this thinking in Punjabi communities or is it just a mindset my own family and extended has.

basically everyone in my family and extended family have a mindset that Punjabi/ Sikh girls that are from UK are somewhat not marriages material and it's best to avoid getting there sons married to Sikh girls from UK and instead invest £££ in a girl from india!

last year I had an argument with my mum regarding this topic, my eldest sister is happily married to a mona Punjabi guy who is uk born and they have been happily married for 3 years no problem. Last year my mum wanted my brother to get married, she insisted that she only wants a girl from India for her beloved son as U.K born girls are not worthy of marriage (regardless of the fact my mum has me and my sister as daughters!)

my brother also holds the same views, I objected and said it would be much easer to marry a girl from uk as she can:-

1)understand the cultur better, she has lived here all her life she knows the rules, ways of life. A girl from India will need time to settle and ajust/adapt, she will have problems understanding things and be dependent on my brother.

2) a U.K. Born girl has been educated here, would most likely have a job in place and has a right to drive. She would have no money issues and would not be dependent on her hubby, however a girl from India will be dependent, may take years to find a decent job, would have to learn to drive from scratch, would not be established here.

3) a girl born here would have more in comman with my brother than a girl from India.

after giving my points and views in why I want my brother to marry a girl from here my mum took my brother to see some rishtsa from uk, however I think my mum purposely took my brother to see girls that my brother would not like.

me and my sister have been raised very strict, we never went out, never wore revealing clothes, were escorted to and from school/ high school/ collage and never had mobile phones or internet connection!

thes girls my mum was showing my brother were the opposite of how me and my sister are, I'm sure there are plenty of well brought up uk Punjabi girls yet my mum found the worst types!!

anyway, my mum got her way and my brother is married to a Punjabi girl from India. After declaring income and all the procedures and money being thrown at her  to come here she is finally here, she seems confused and home sick. My mum treats her a bit like a maid and my brother is at the moment in the honeymoon stage, she is all ji ji and hanji for now. 

My question is, why do Punjabi people think uk born girls are not good engough? Why is it worth being a girl from back home? Is it for controll? 

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sikhni777    551

We were in the same position but learnt to adjust. 

In a successful marriage adjustments have to be constantly made. Don't worry too much about them.  People are able to get on with their lives without interference. 

Worry about yourself and don't give others ideas especially your new bhabhi about her being sad and homesick. Your thoughts will transfer to her. Always be positive and positiveness will flow from you to others.

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Cloud    12

When your parents came to UK for 25+ years ago. Alot of things were different then in Punjab compared to their new country. 

Usually when any family moves to another country, one coping defense mechanism to deal with the situation is to hold on tradition and values. That is basically what your parents have done. This will affect your parents and your brothers judgement when selecting a partner for your brother. 

Mostly they think that if they can choose a country girl that does not have access to internet they can then "mold" that country girl to your brothers future with that girl. Unfortunetly that country girl after getting married to your brother then want to go to Paris fashion week 2018 and become a modern sikh woman.

This is a example what your parents see when they think of women in UK, US, CANADA etc.

https://www.youtube.com/v/LFebWgqUtRY?start=27&end=420

Watch this until 7:17. Safe for work.

That said I would just like to give you a word of advice.

Right now in India was not what is what 25+ years ago. What is going on is a "Woodstock sexual revolution" were young teenage girls have to choose between view of women in India which has been so distorted by the moghals for 800-1000 years which treat them like cattle or like a group of consumers in the modern consumer culture which is right now consuming the consciousness of mankind.

Most of them will choose the consumer ones of course. They will think this is 2017!

They do not know of the "bad" sides of consumer culture like Bibi Sat Kirin Kaur.

 

Good luck penji

VVJK VJKF

Edited by Cloud
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simran345    2,417
14 hours ago, Guest Wondering said:

 

My question is, why do Punjabi people think uk born girls are not good engough? Why is it worth being a girl from back home? Is it for controll? 

It's because they still hold the views that they had 20-40yrs ago, when they came to UK. They think the youth are still the same there as back then, but unfortunately things have changed. And that happens with time. 

Its also because the girls here are more independent, stand on their own feet quicker, more job opportunities here and the culture and environment is less strict. So this makes them afraid that they are so successful that they will have there own ways and take over the whole house, thus restrict their freedom. 

She maybe a good for your brother, you never know. Not all girls from India have negative qualities. It's the same as here, they are being active in their decision making nowadays. 

Edited by simran345

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Jacfsing2    1,831
30 minutes ago, simran345 said:

It's because they still hold the views that they had 20-40yrs ago, when they came to UK. They think the youth are still the same there as back then, but unfortunately things have changed. And that happens with time. 

Its also because the girls here are more independent, stand on their own feet quicker, more job opportunities here and the culture and environment is less strict. So this makes them afraid that they are so successful that they will have there own ways and take over the whole house, thus restrict their freedom. 

She maybe a good for your brother, you never know. Not all girls from India have negative qualities. It's the same as here, they are being active in their decision making nowadays. 

Isn't Sikhi egalitarian though? So women should be allowed to be given the same opportunity and freedom men would have? (Unless these Punjabis actually view themselves as sub-continentals instead of Sikhs?)

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dallysingh101    1,582
1 hour ago, simran345 said:

It's because they still hold the views that they had 20-40yrs ago, when they came to UK. They think the youth are still the same there as back then, but unfortunately things have changed. And that happens with time. 

Its also because the girls here are more independent, stand on their own feet quicker, more job opportunities here and the culture and environment is less strict. So this makes them afraid that they are so successful that they will have there own ways and take over the whole house, thus restrict their freedom. 

She maybe a good for your brother, you never know. Not all girls from India have negative qualities. It's the same as here, they are being active in their decision making nowadays. 

Come on, it's not only that.

Promiscuity isn't a small issue in the west.

 

But that all said and done, like others have alluded to - parents often have a totally (unrealistic and) idealised conception of what things are like in Panjab. Most of the second generation there that I know of haven't had arranged marriages. Dating isn't uncommon either. 

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simran345    2,417
2 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Come on, it's not only that.

Promiscuity isn't a small issue in the west.

 

But that all said and done, like others have alluded to - parents often have a totally (unrealistic and) idealised conception of what things are like in Panjab. Most of the second generation there that I know of haven't had arranged marriages. Dating isn't uncommon either. 

If you read my first paragraph, that's exactly what I'm saying. Things have moved on, but the elders here are under the impression that it's still like 40yrs ago. They don't see the other side of it, where there are boyfriends and girlfriends or even as friends. 

But still in some pinds it's still arranged marriage, as in the boy and girl are introduced to each other by a middle somebody and then they get to know each other and decide to get married if they wish to, but they can also say no. 

Some parents here think the girls and guys are there like gold compared to here which they would class as silver. That's because they either fail to accept the truth of what it's like or because they simply must be under the impression that you have given paji. 

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simran345    2,417
1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Isn't Sikhi egalitarian though? So women should be allowed to be given the same opportunity and freedom men would have? (Unless these Punjabis actually view themselves as sub-continentals instead of Sikhs?)

Yes that is the Sikh view, but unfortunately not everybody follows Sikhi teachings. 

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dallysingh101    1,582
11 minutes ago, simran345 said:

Some parents here think the girls and guys are there like gold compared to here which they would class as silver. That's because they either fail to accept the truth of what it's like or because they simply must be under the impression that you have given paji. 

Bhen ji, I'm saying that the concern they have (although it doesn't apply towards all apneean) isn't an irrational one when it comes to girls who have grown up here. There are serious issues we are all aware of, in this respect. We have been trying to deal with this for a few decades now. 

But back to parents, what is strange is their idealisation of back home, which has its own issues. They play down all the 'getting a passport stamp and going missing', they ignore the umpteen people who've married someone from here and then later suddenly left to be with their bf/gf from back home. They ignore the rampant drugs issue from back home. My sister-in-law (who is from back home) , told me that people start taking all sorts of drugs in college over there. It's like you said: it appears to be some sort of psychological defence mechanism by parents in the face of disorientating change and uncertainty. Also, people brought up over here are much more likely to call out parents who act shady. I know parents often seem to prefer some sort of docile, subservient daughter in law, who never questions anything. 

Edited by dallysingh101
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simran345    2,417
3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Bhen ji, I'm saying that the concern they have (although it doesn't apply towards all apneean) isn't an irrational one when it comes to girls who have grown up here. There are serious issues we are all aware of, in this respect. We have been trying to deal with this for a few decades now. 

But back to parents, what is strange is their idealisation of back home, which has its own issues. They play down all the 'getting a passport stamp and going missing', they ignore the umpteen people who've married someone from here and then later suddenly left to be with their bf/gf from back home. They ignore the rampant drugs issue from back home. My sister-in-law (who is from back home) , told me that people start taking all sorts of drugs in college over there. It's like you said: it appears to be some sort of psychological defence mechanism by parents in the face of disorientating change and uncertainty. Also, people brought up over here are much more likely to call out parents who act shady. I know parents often seem to prefer some sort of docile, subservient daughter in law, who never questions anything. 

Yes I agree. 

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Guest singhperspective   
Guest singhperspective

I'm going to say something which you may not like bit I think it's important I put this out there for people to read.

I'm a 27 year old amritdhari singh (unmarried) from the uk. I'm quite "active" in religious circles and have many Singh friends similar to me aging from 20-30. We all feel the same way about most Singhnia we see in the UK. Primarily that they are very western in negative ways. Now we are western too and there is nothing wrong with taking the good bits of western culture, but we feel alot of kaurs these days take the wrong bits -mainly that they are not very family orientated and have a bit of an attitude. I'm really sorry if that offends but it is truly how ALOT of us feel.

Please don't confuse this with having a strong personality. We are all for strong, confident and independent singhnia, but at the end of the day we are looking for caring and warm qualities in a singhni as well. Alot of us singhs find uk singhnia to be quite cold and aloof and not very approachable. I think alot of uk girls have wrongly taken the concept of feminism and being equal to just being rude to singhs - i know some marriages that have broken over this stuff. Singhnis need to realise that it does not make them weak to take some care over their Singh and cook for them, look after the home etc. These are qualities which will be greatly appreciated but the Singh and in return the Singh will guve a great deal of love and support.

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Guest Kato   
Guest Kato

I always thought "s" and "z" are the differences btween uk and Canadian English until i read ur post today of spelling "common as comman"

😂😂

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Akalifauj    782
13 hours ago, Guest singhperspective said:

I'm going to say something which you may not like bit I think it's important I put this out there for people to read.

I'm a 27 year old amritdhari singh (unmarried) from the uk. I'm quite "active" in religious circles and have many Singh friends similar to me aging from 20-30. We all feel the same way about most Singhnia we see in the UK. Primarily that they are very western in negative ways. Now we are western too and there is nothing wrong with taking the good bits of western culture, but we feel alot of kaurs these days take the wrong bits -mainly that they are not very family orientated and have a bit of an attitude. I'm really sorry if that offends but it is truly how ALOT of us feel.

Please don't confuse this with having a strong personality. We are all for strong, confident and independent singhnia, but at the end of the day we are looking for caring and warm qualities in a singhni as well. Alot of us singhs find uk singhnia to be quite cold and aloof and not very approachable. I think alot of uk girls have wrongly taken the concept of feminism and being equal to just being rude to singhs - i know some marriages that have broken over this stuff. Singhnis need to realise that it does not make them weak to take some care over their Singh and cook for them, look after the home etc. These are qualities which will be greatly appreciated but the Singh and in return the Singh will guve a great deal of love and support.

You are preaching to the wrong crowd.  No one can help these folks.  They will continue to aim the axe at their head repetitively.  It's like a drug, they know it is hurting them, but they continue to use because it's an addiction.   

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Akalifauj    782
18 hours ago, Cloud said:

When your parents came to UK for 25+ years ago. Alot of things were different then in Punjab compared to their new country. 

Usually when any family moves to another country, one coping defense mechanism to deal with the situation is to hold on tradition and values. That is basically what your parents have done. This will affect your parents and your brothers judgement when selecting a partner for your brother. 

Mostly they think that if they can choose a country girl that does not have access to internet they can then "mold" that country girl to your brothers future with that girl. Unfortunetly that country girl after getting married to your brother then want to go to Paris fashion week 2018 and become a modern sikh woman.

This is a example what your parents see when they think of women in UK, US, CANADA etc.

https://www.youtube.com/v/LFebWgqUtRY?start=27&end=420

Watch this until 7:17. Safe for work.

That said I would just like to give you a word of advice.

Right now in India was not what is what 25+ years ago. What is going on is a "Woodstock sexual revolution" were young teenage girls have to choose between view of women in India which has been so distorted by the moghals for 800-1000 years which treat them like cattle or like a group of consumers in the modern consumer culture which is right now consuming the consciousness of mankind.

Most of them will choose the consumer ones of course. They will think this is 2017!

They do not know of the "bad" sides of consumer culture like Bibi Sat Kirin Kaur.

 

Good luck penji

VVJK VJKF

You keep putting up these 3HO peoples videos.  How are they in anyway noble.  They get unmarried people to perform tantric sex positions and play Vaheguru simran.  They perform worship of idols.  What can they teach others? 

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MisterrSingh    2,802
19 hours ago, Guest singhperspective said:

I'm going to say something which you may not like bit I think it's important I put this out there for people to read.

I'm a 27 year old amritdhari singh (unmarried) from the uk. I'm quite "active" in religious circles and have many Singh friends similar to me aging from 20-30. We all feel the same way about most Singhnia we see in the UK. Primarily that they are very western in negative ways. Now we are western too and there is nothing wrong with taking the good bits of western culture, but we feel alot of kaurs these days take the wrong bits -mainly that they are not very family orientated and have a bit of an attitude. I'm really sorry if that offends but it is truly how ALOT of us feel.

Please don't confuse this with having a strong personality. We are all for strong, confident and independent singhnia, but at the end of the day we are looking for caring and warm qualities in a singhni as well. Alot of us singhs find uk singhnia to be quite cold and aloof and not very approachable. I think alot of uk girls have wrongly taken the concept of feminism and being equal to just being rude to singhs - i know some marriages that have broken over this stuff. Singhnis need to realise that it does not make them weak to take some care over their Singh and cook for them, look after the home etc. These are qualities which will be greatly appreciated but the Singh and in return the Singh will guve a great deal of love and support.

I'd like to hear more. I've heard murmurings from young, decent Singhs about these issues, but for some reason they've been led to believe that articulating these concerns makes them anti-Guru mysoginists who want a wife that'll be chained up in the kitchen all day. It seems there's no middle ground. The question remains: how has third wave feminism - for that's essentially what we're seeing in action - managed to gradually mesh itself with orthodox, timeless Sikh ideals (in the truest sense of the phrase) in the West?

 

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