13Mirch

Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and the Akali-Dal

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On 30/12/2016 at 5:43 PM, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

Even if you go by khalras numbers I don't think even close to 100k people were killed by Punjab police. 

 

How did you reach the conclusion using Khalra's numbers that not even close to 100k people were killed?

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1 hour ago, jashb said:

 

How did you reach the conclusion using Khalra's numbers that not even close to 100k people were killed?

he has a complex about numbers being high ...how about questioning  vadda and chotte ghalughara figures too while you are at it since you don't have an official figure from the government confirming them ?

Khalra had the figures for one crematorium out of three in the dist extrapolate across the district , then other districts  and cross check against the reports of missing family members and you can easily hit 100,000 over the decade .In delhi the official figure was only 540 odd as opposed to the conservative figure of three thousand that's a miscount of over 550%

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11 hours ago, jashb said:

 

That's just politically naive. The criminal does not simply incriminate himself.

Yet multiple officers have given great interviews, and quite unbiased. Obviously I'm not expecting gen Brar to come out and admit more than 400 died. 

11 hours ago, jashb said:

 

How did you reach the conclusion using Khalra's numbers that not even close to 100k people were killed?

General accepted figure for police killings in Amritsar district is appox 6,000 from 84 to 95. Amritsar (included Tarn Taran back then) was the district that saw the most action, was and is a highly Sikh populated district, more so than the others. I don't believe you can simply than multiply 6000x13(or 15, # of districts), as not all districts saw the level of action that Amritsar did. Until about 89 majority of activity was along border districts, later on a few Malwa districts saw heavy action as well. 

9 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

he has a complex about numbers being high ...how about questioning  vadda and chotte ghalughara figures too while you are at it since you don't have an official figure from the government confirming them ?

Khalra had the figures for one crematorium out of three in the dist extrapolate across the district , then other districts  and cross check against the reports of missing family members and you can easily hit 100,000 over the decade .In delhi the official figure was only 540 odd as opposed to the conservative figure of three thousand that's a miscount of over 550%

Is that supposed to be an insult towards me? It's a topic I'm passionate about and I want to know as many details as possible. Sorry I'm not willing to run around like an <banned word filter activated> and spout off random numbers. You have always been a very emotional poster and don't use logic much, wouldn't expect you too understand. 

 

"But we have not had the practice or training of keeping a complete record of that oppression. About 50,000, about 1 million – we say all of that. The educated people of the world do not trust that, they need exact figures. And for that, I also say, that you all should unite on this issue"

Edited by KhoonKaBadlaKhoon

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18 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

Yet multiple officers have given great interviews, and quite unbiased. Obviously I'm not expecting gen Brar to come out and admit more than 400 died. 

General accepted figure for police killings in Amritsar district is appox 6,000 from 84 to 95. Amritsar (included Tarn Taran back then) was the district that saw the most action, was and is a highly Sikh populated district, more so than the others. I don't believe you can simply than multiply 6000x13(or 15, # of districts), as not all districts saw the level of action that Amritsar did. Until about 89 majority of activity was along border districts, later on a few Malwa districts saw heavy action as well. 

Is that supposed to be an insult towards me? It's a topic I'm passionate about and I want to know as many details as possible. Sorry I'm not willing to run around like an <banned word filter activated> and spout off random numbers. You have always been a very emotional poster and don't use logic much, wouldn't expect you too understand. 

 

"But we have not had the practice or training of keeping a complete record of that oppression. About 50,000, about 1 million – we say all of that. The educated people of the world do not trust that, they need exact figures. And for that, I also say, that you all should unite on this issue"

given that I know that they rounded people by the truckload , this is from my nanake in jagroan district , it was only intervention via my Mama in the army that saved them from death. I can believe that you can pick up 50 odd people at a time that way and given the huge number of villages and lack of paperwork from back then any number is possible . Operation woodrose and all the other sweeps are you forgetting them also ? Emotions are fine when tempered with knowledge ... 

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4 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

given that I know that they rounded people by the truckload , this is from my nanake in jagroan district , it was only intervention via my Mama in the army that saved them from death. I can believe that you can pick up 50 odd people at a time that way and given the huge number of villages and lack of paperwork from back then any number is possible . Operation woodrose and all the other sweeps are you forgetting them also ? Emotions are fine when tempered with knowledge ... 

I've been too many villages myself, some states only 1-2 died from their village, others had 10+. I'm sure they did pick up by the truckload very often, but I'm not just going to multiply 50x12,000 and be satisfied. I will probably never have the answers to my questions, but I sure won't settle at some hearsay "facts." I'll spend many many more years trying, regardless if the answer is 25000 to 50000 to 100000. 

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8 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

I've been too many villages myself, some states only 1-2 died from their village, others had 10+. I'm sure they did pick up by the truckload very often, but I'm not just going to multiply 50x12,000 and be satisfied. I will probably never have the answers to my questions, but I sure won't settle at some hearsay "facts." I'll spend many many more years trying, regardless if the answer is 25000 to 50000 to 100000. 

I'm not saying just grab any old number , but crossreference to actual families with missing people ... I mean three thousand dead in three days of uncontrolled violence in Dehli , and the rapid removal of those bodies left people wondering . That was three days , whereas a decade and half of unmonitored police and army activity could do so much more since they already have the structure to support this activity and the image to hide behind if questioned. 
We need to support the NGOs which are trying to interview the remaining families and witnesses to get statements recorded .

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2 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

There are a few problems with this question please clarify.. 

I'm guessing you want death count of unnatural death? 

Please define the term 'sikh', is the death of a mona Hindu panjabi who goes gurdwara as well as mandir a Sikh? 

 

Anyone who was murdered by the state of India, whether Sikh or mistaken as Sikh is considered a murder at the hand of the state of India.  It becomes a genocide because of the amount and targeting a single group.  You are a troll. 

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15 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

My troll to your dimwit.. Please at least try and be coherent it's embarrassing to the term Sikh /student if one cannot develop rational propositions 

You can't understand accurate statements.  You even make ISIS suicide bombers look righteous.  You have no knowledge or never will you have knowledge on Sikhi or religion or philosophy.  You are a troll most likely on welfare, sucking up public funds because you can't function in the real world.  Even a homeless person won't hire you to collect pop cans.   

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14 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

There are a few problems with this question please clarify.. 

I'm guessing you want death count of unnatural death? 

Please define the term 'sikh', is the death of a mona Hindu panjabi who goes gurdwara as well as mandir a Sikh? 

Are those 'sikhs' killed in air India bombing shaheeds or are they murder/deaths 

 

Just a fyi, there was a very minimal number of Sikhs on that flight, very very few. Not too many Sikhs were taking Air India then. 

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Just now, Sukhvirk76 said:

And the point is? It wasn't the question I asked.. 

It was a shameful act 

Done by your masters the Indian government. 

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8 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Seriously! Lol dude I've done more political activism in a morning than a armchair conspiracy theorist, justifying the murder over 200 people.. Shame on you 

Obviously your masters the Indian government should be hanged for murdering over 200 people.  Making over 200 murders a political smear campaign is nothing to gloat on.  Then again, you are a troll.

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1 minute ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

The guy pleaded guilty what the heck are you going on about.. The best you can do is make ridiculous accusations against me... I mean how ridiculous! 

Check your head Bro 

 

The troll is getting upset.  I thought effective politicians are able to hold up their composure a lot better than this.  Just tells us the length this troll will go to lie and cheat.  He can't even run an effective smear campaign.  Indian government must have paid you in empty pop cans and still the homeless wouldn't hire you to collect for them.

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9 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

And the point is? It wasn't the question I asked.. 

It was a shameful act 

Like I said, an fyi. But, no, not martyrs. That term is thrown around too lonely. Should be reserved for those who are knowingly dying for their cause.  

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@SukhVirk76

Sikhi in no uncertain terms repudiates terrorism. The Khalsa Panth (that protects the innocent) was denigrated by the bombing of Air India 182. Thus it is absolutely clear that it was the work of RAW at the behest of the Indian Government.

There is no doubt that clearly it was a false flag bombing ordered by the Indian Government at the expense of innocent lives (many of whom were Sikh).

The GOI gained political capital from the tragic event whilst innocent Sikhs suffered more in the Genocide as a result of the cover that the anti-Sikh publicity the false flag operation gave the GOI.

The clowns living in mansions that claim responsibility and parade banners at Nagar Kirtans are on the payroll of RAW and the Government of India.

They do exactly what their handlers tell them and put up an act of pretending to be Sikh. RCMP exposed as much by failing to convict them.

There is nothing to discuss on it really as Sikhi totally repudiates and condemns terrorism (the unjustified targetting of civilians). The Indian Government and RAW carried out the bombing of Air India 182 as a blatant false flag operation in order to besmirch the Khalsa Panth and thereby justify the Genocide of innocent Sikhs they were carrying out back then.

 
Edited by SinghSabha1699
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All theories ^^^ zero evidence. Chances of them being govt agents is slim. On top of that none of them publicly take credit, in fact they fought a huge case saying they didn't do it.... Show where they claimed to do it.   

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24 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

So those murdered in the bombing were victims of terrorism 

Pretty much. Anger expressed in a way that simply ruins all credibility here in the West. 

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1 hour ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

Chances of them being govt agents is slim. On top of that none of them publicly take credit, in fact they fought a huge case saying they didn't do it.... Show where they claimed to do it.   

Of course it was the Government of India who bombed AI 182 as a false flag operation. Of course the Sikhs all found not guilty did not plant the bomb I agree. Of course Reyat is a paid chump for GOI who had to maintain a certain line so that it caused negative perception of Sikhs abroad whilst keeping his RAW handlers out of the limelight. How comes this clown Reyat has serious property assets in BC and the UK. How many real terrorists pay with their own bank cards and sign their own receipts Inderjit Reyat and then get released for doing their acting role in falsely associating this GOI bombing with Sikhs.

The whole context was that after June 1984 and then the November Genocide of Sikhs and ongoing murders of thousands of innocent Sikhs between then and June 1985, the Government of India needed to present Sikhs as deserving victims of Genocide on the false grounds that the Khalsa Panth are terrorists. No (patit) terrorist on this planet has the himmat to go to Harmandir Sahib and claim that they bombed a plane full of innocent. Reason being that such a terrorist would be called.

GOI had everything to gain from RAW's orchestrated bombing of AI 182

Sikhs had everything to lose and were the most over represented in the percentage of victims as compared to India's main demographic communities.

 

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4 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

So those murdered in the bombing were victims of terrorism 

Yes the victims of AI Flight 182 were victims of terrorism.

They were 100% clearly and emphatically the victims of Government of India sponsored RAW false flag terrorism.

Incidentally AI 182 also happens to be the largest loss of Sikh Canadian lives in a state funded GOI terrorist event with 35 Sikhs from Montreal along with dozens of other Sikhs and the Sikh pilot (Bhinder). Of course all victims of this terrorist act by RAW were equal victims of this GOI-sponsored bombing. GOI obviously felt killing a few hundred innocents was worth the valuable political cover such a despicable act could provide to a terrorist state-sponsored Genocide against thousands of innocent Sikhs ongoing at that time in the mid 1980's. 

Edited by SinghSabha1699
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6 minutes ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Of course it was the Government of India who bombed AI 182 as a false flag operation. Of course the Sikhs all found not guilty did not plant the bomb I agree. Of course Reyat is a paid chump for GOI who had to maintain a certain line so that it caused negative perception of Sikhs abroad whilst keeping his RAW handlers out of the limelight. How comes this clown Reyat has serious property assets in BC and the UK. How many real terrorists pay with their own bank cards and sign their own receipts Inderjit Reyat and then get released for doing their acting role in falsely associating this GOI bombing with Sikhs..

 

Reyat was already well established in BC prior to his conviction. In fact a lot of Sikhs were. But while he was in prison, his wife making chump change under the table and even on welfare. These guys are all quite guilty, the case was just severely fumbled by security agencies. 

Everyone makes mistakes, these guys were working class Sikhs who jumped head first into this mess. They didn't have any background in planning attacks, except for maybe one, possibly two. Even CSIS and RCMP made some very stupid mistakes back then. 

I don't know if they were played by RAW or not, but they were more than likely involved. No point living in denial. Some kharkus in Punjab also killed innocents. Ask those who were present or connected to the families. Regardless, I have and always will be pro Khalistan. 

 

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1 minute ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

These guys are all quite guilty, the case was just severely fumbled by security agencies. 

I don't know if they were played by RAW or not

No point living in denial. Some kharkus in Punjab also killed innocents.

 

 

That's thing how can any Sikh ever countenance an act of terrorism against innocents - it's simply not possible as Sikhi condemns it. The minute any individual even thinks along terrorist lines such a terrorist patit ought to be dealt with by us as ordinary Sangat.

Whilst I do believe that Reyat is a clown being paid by RAW to denigrate Sikhs, I don't believe for a second that RCMP are so incompetent that they could not build a successful case involving the largest loss of Canadian lives in a terrorist act. I absolutely believe the cases brought were a face saving measure by RCMP who realised RAW orchestrated the bomb on flight 182 but could not openly expose as much given the billions of dollars of trade between India and Canada.

Any rare patit that deliberately targetted innocent civilians during the GOI-sponsored Sikh Genocide was clearly non-Sikh by virtue of their actions and of course for every innocent killed by those who you claim to be sincere kharku's over a thousand times more innocents were killed by the terrorist Government of India at the time. 

This has nothing to do with Khalistan - but every thing to do with Sikhi.

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15 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

I'm not sure I have ever seen any evidence to support this.. The current Canadian defense minister is sikh and also currently in India. He in the past has been a vocal opponent of GOI and supporter of Khalistan movement. He would be pretty well informed about any conspiracy... 

Are you suggesting The Canadian government with there vast resources were unable to uncover the GOI conspiracy in which hundreds of there citizens were killed? 

I'm pretty sure there isn't any evidence of a RAW conspiracy. Also we have the admission of guilt by one person 

Generally when well funded terrorist governments authorise their intelligence agencies to commit false flag actions such as the GOI-sponsored RAW bombing you wouldn't expect them to leave too much evidence. The CIA and KGB are smart too.

Yes Harjit Singh Sajjan most likely is aware that it was a Government of India funded bombing. However, it would hardly be prudent politically for Sajjan or Trudeau to bring up something that RCMP buried on behalf of RAW as Canada does billions of annual trade with India. Sajjan like Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale has only ever advocated the Anandpur Sahib resolution.

Most people are aware that with there is insufficient democratic demand for Khalistan in Punjab and with Sikhs projected to be a minority in Punjab by either the 2021 census or the 2031 census if we do not immediately start to fight the ongoing Genocide in the form of female infanticide, drugs, cancer, biraderi apartheid,illiteracy, poverty affecting Sikhs ... Khalistan is something that will not occur any time very soon (unless and until Pakistan disintegrates first). So no Sikh in any position of political of power in Canada (given that there are no Sikh MP's in the UK) will ever raise it as a subject when visiting India when not even Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale ever asked for it (they only ever asked for the Anandpur Sahib Resolution).

The fact that the RCMP could not directly convict anyone for the bombing obviously leads to the conclusion that RCMP did uncover the RAW (Government of India) hands behind the bombing but the best way to brush it under the carpet was via a clown like Reyat who has been well looked after by his RAW handlers in order to besmirch Sikhs via this evil bombing - as political cover for the Genocide that Indira+Rajiv Gandhi were perpetrating against Sikhs in 1984+1985 and the decade thereafter.

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24 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

So you are saying that the Canadian government is complicit in the conspiracy. 

Do you have any evidence to support your views other than circumstantial? 

Whilst I don't believe that the Canadian government had anything to do with the bombing, I totally do believe that once they discovered that it was RAW operatives behind the bombing of Air India flight 182, they did their absolute best via RCMP to assist in presenting the false flag GOI-sponsored bombing as somehow not being authorised by Rajiv Gandhi for trade related reasons.

Don't forget that USSR+UK+USA all actively and provably supported the GOI in their Genocide against Sikhs. Back when Mulroney was Prime Minister in 1985, there were less than 100,000 Sikhs in Canada amongst a population of 26 million Canadians ie less than 0.4% of the electorate so completely politically expendable in comparison to the billions of dollars of trade with Delhi Sarkar.

When Indira and Rajiv Gandhi happily killed thousands of innocent Sikhs with glee the murder of a few hundred innocents (including 35 Sikhs from Montreal as well as dozens more from BC and Ontario incidentally and the Sikh pilot) on AI 182 was no big deal. Sikhs cannot commit terrorist actions targetting innocents - those that may rarely have done so are clearly anti-Sikh patits.

The evidence is quite clear: 

- who benefitted? = Rajiv Gandhi and the Government of India (and Canada via trade deals)

- who lost out? = the innocent victims of the bombing among whom Sikhs were over-represented demographically ... as well as the tens of thousands of innocent Sikhs killed by Indira + Rajiv Gandhi under the pretext of political cover denigrating Sikhs as terrorists. When it was terrorists Indira+Rajiv who sent out Muhammad Izhar Alam and his Black Cats to murder innocent non-Sikhs as revealed on Wikileaks which I believe also corroborates the findings in Soft Target.

Edited by SinghSabha1699
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