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WJKK WJKF,

 Ever since I've gotten into sikhi I have started thinking their isn't much use in education. Im not saying education is useless and everyone should not go to school. Im trying to say people put too much stress on education than sikhi. The things we learn in school arnt going to be of any use after we die, but the naam we japed and the things we learned from bani will. For example ever since I was young my parents said their is only use in education and nothing else, but if they had put that much emphasize on sikhi than education who knows where i would be.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think I am wrong? Do you think I am right?

Honestly I dont know if I am right or wrong. Sometimes I think I am right; sometimes wrong.

 

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You aren't the first to have this thought and you certainly won't be the last. From my experience this "realisation" occurs to young people who can't be bothered to put in the effort to get stuff done anymore. They think if they give some vague, spiritually "enlightened" justification as to why education is futile, they'll somehow appear to be special beings who've transcended the norms of the grind of daily life; the kind of grind that the kaljugi rabble are just too foolish and unblessed to relinquish.

Great stuff if you're looking to see out your years unmarried and genuinely devoted to Sikhi and seva and related things until your dying day; not so great if mummy and daddy expect a respectable career, a married partner, and a few kids from their offspring.

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58 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

You aren't the first to have this thought and you certainly won't be the last. From my experience this "realisation" occurs to young people who can't be bothered to put in the effort to get stuff done anymore. They think if they give some vague, spiritually "enlightened" justification as to why education is futile, they'll somehow appear to be special beings who've transcended the norms of the grind of daily life; the kind of grind that the kaljugi rabble are just too foolish and unblessed to relinquish.

Great stuff if you're looking to see out your years unmarried and genuinely devoted to Sikhi and seva and related things until your dying day; not so great if mummy and daddy expect a respectable career, a married partner, and a few kids from their offspring.

So you disagree with this thought. 

Im not saying education is futile, its just people put it over sikhi and give too much emphasis to it.

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1 hour ago, Arshdeepsingh said:

So you disagree with this thought. 

Im not saying education is futile, its just people put it over sikhi and give too much emphasis to it.

I know where you're coming from and I'm inclined to agree with you on principle. We can't detach ourselves from the world by eschewing education that leads to fields where we should be functioning in order to help the faith to grow, because that would be a death sentence for our future as a people. Yet our predisposition towards materialism is what I think you're alluding to, in terms of how our people view education as a means to reach a certain status and the financial rewards it brings, whilst neglecting other important yet intangible avenues of interest.

I think it's a balancing act, brother. Find the sweet spot that works for you and keep at it. Don't renounce the world and its mundanities like a sanyasi. It seems cool when you're young, but without even a basic education things will be tough. Unfortunately, people don't see the soul within most of the time. 

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2 hours ago, Arshdeepsingh said:

So you disagree with this thought. 

Im not saying education is futile, its just people put it over sikhi and give too much emphasis to it.

I'd say that Guru Gobind Singh ji himself placed a very high value on a rounded education. It has its obvious advantages. I think they wanted us to be intellectually sharp as well as spiritual. The amount of emphasis Guru ji placed on educating oneself and becoming familiar with the world and literature, a part of which is exemplified in the Dasam Granth and the extant manuscripts of kavis who were part of his darbar for whatever time, point at this. 

It isn't the be all or end all, but it has its importance. Sikhs becoming a detached, purely spiritual community was never on the cards. Our ancestors engaged with their environment and even remoulded it. 

Lots of different types of education was essential for Sikhs to do this, including military, strategic, statecraft and a general understanding of the literature and society of the time. 

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16 hours ago, Arshdeepsingh said:

WJKK WJKF,

 Ever since I've gotten into sikhi I have started thinking their isn't much use in education. Im not saying education is useless and everyone should not go to school. Im trying to say people put too much stress on education than sikhi. The things we learn in school arnt going to be of any use after we die, but the naam we japed and the things we learned from bani will. For example ever since I was young my parents said their is only use in education and nothing else, but if they had put that much emphasize on sikhi than education who knows where i would be.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think I am wrong? Do you think I am right?

Honestly I dont know if I am right or wrong. Sometimes I think I am right; sometimes wrong.

 

Brother,

education is necessary to live and earn our daily bread, generally speaking.

Sikhee is essential for cutting our bonds from mayavee creation to become free, merge in Him and become one with Him.

Both can coexist at the same time, and are necessary in their respective fields, and as far as we know our limits and  goals.

The key is logic, sense and balance.

Sat Sree Akal.

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19 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

You aren't the first to have this thought and you certainly won't be the last. From my experience this "realisation" occurs to young people who can't be bothered to put in the effort to get stuff done anymore. They think if they give some vague, spiritually "enlightened" justification as to why education is futile, they'll somehow appear to be special beings who've transcended the norms of the grind of daily life; the kind of grind that the kaljugi rabble are just too foolish and unblessed to relinquish.

Great stuff if you're looking to see out your years unmarried and genuinely devoted to Sikhi and seva and related things until your dying day; not so great if mummy and daddy expect a respectable career, a married partner, and a few kids from their offspring.

 

16 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I know where you're coming from and I'm inclined to agree with you on principle. We can't detach ourselves from the world by eschewing education that leads to fields where we should be functioning in order to help the faith to grow, because that would be a death sentence for our future as a people. Yet our predisposition towards materialism is what I think you're alluding to, in terms of how our people view education as a means to reach a certain status and the financial rewards it brings, whilst neglecting other important yet intangible avenues of interest.

I think it's a balancing act, brother. Find the sweet spot that works for you and keep at it. Don't renounce the world and its mundanities like a sanyasi. It seems cool when you're young, but without even a basic education things will be tough. Unfortunately, people don't see the soul within most of the time. 

 

15 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I'd say that Guru Gobind Singh ji himself placed a very high value on a rounded education. It has its obvious advantages. I think they wanted us to be intellectually sharp as well as spiritual. The amount of emphasis Guru ji placed on educating oneself and becoming familiar with the world and literature, a part of which is exemplified in the Dasam Granth and the extant manuscripts of kavis who were part of his darbar for whatever time, point at this. 

It isn't the be all or end all, but it has its importance. Sikhs becoming a detached, purely spiritual community was never on the cards. Our ancestors engaged with their environment and even remoulded it. 

Lots of different types of education was essential for Sikhs to do this, including military, strategic, statecraft and a general understanding of the literature and society of the time. 

 

1 hour ago, harsharan000 said:

Brother,

education is necessary to live and earn our daily bread, generally speaking.

Sikhee is essential for cutting our bonds from mayavee creation to become free, merge in Him and become one with Him.

Both can coexist at the same time, and are necessary in their respective fields, and as far as we know our limits and  goals.

The key is logic, sense and balance.

Sat Sree Akal.

Thank you all for your wonderful replys and teaching me not to renounce the world, but create a balance for myself of education and sikhi and that education is essential for sikhi to exist.

 

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1 hour ago, Arshdeepsingh said:

Thank you all for your wonderful replys and teaching me not to renounce the world, but create a balance for myself of education and sikhi and that education is essential for sikhi to exist.

 

You recognise there's a problem. That's a very good thing. Most of our people go through life without attaining such a realisation. 

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I think education is very important, especially for Sikhs. Without education, u will either have to do unskilled jobs, be on welfare, or live as a baba which is freeloading off of gurudwaras. The thing with unskilled jobs is that they r disappearing fast, not enough to go around, machines replacing them, and u might be mistreated. And u might nor earn enough to support yourself and ur parents. Also it will create an image that sikhs are an uneducated lot, which alot of sikhs ppl care about as they have spent their lives creating the opposite image.

Being on welfare is really bad for a sikh. First they will not be following hukam of doing kirt. Second society will look at you n sikhs as undesirables. This is becoming more important as most countries are becoming anti-immigrant. So if ur a load on the country, they might get rid of you. Also welfare and benefits could be cut off anytime. And hardearned money of ppl is being taken away from them thru taxes to be given to u. 

Thirdly, living as a baba has the disadvantages of both above things. Not enough positions to go around, low pay, benefits cut off any time etc. Also in the past being a granthi was a respected position because the granthi was educated, and would provide tutoring in gurmukhi etc. 

Fourth, if u r uneducated u cant help make decisions that sikh ppl will need to in the future. Such as can kirpaans be allowed in spaceships, can we eat synthesized meat, can we genetically engineer our babies, is capitalism and democracy the best types of governments/economies, should gmo be allowed in langars, should all langar be gluten free as gluten intolerance is increasing, should sarbat khalsa be online etc., should there be a sikh colony on mars,  To help with these n other problems that sikhs will be facing, we need educated, informed, part of society sikhs.

Fifth, you can help out more people if u r educated n wealthy. Also it isnt easy to focus on bhagti all day, all the time. Try it. On a weekend, try this suggestion given by bhai pinderpal singh: do ishnaan dress all in white, go to a clean, quiet place where u cant be disturbed. And do nitnem then do simran all the way until its rehraas time. Take a pillow or gadhi for ur back n butt. Also keep a water bottle nearby. And u get 15 min lunch. Thats it. Try it. 

Sixth, lots of ppl think sikhi is incompatible with modern life. And u dont want to spread such misrepresentation, i hope.

 

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1 hour ago, Arshdeepsingh said:

 

Thank you all for your wonderful replys and teaching me not to renounce the world, but create a balance for myself of education and sikhi and that education is essential for sikhi to exist.

 

Just one point, education is not essential for sikhee to exist.

It is like saying, I am a teacher,  and this is essential for being a football player, for example. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Sikhee is complete by itself as per Gurmat, it needs no complements.

Sikhee to be fully realized needs only love, faith and regular devotion.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

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28 minutes ago, harsharan000 said:

Just one point, education is not essential for sikhee to exist.

It is like saying, I am a teacher,  and this is essential for being a football player, for example. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Sikhee is complete by itself as per Gurmat, it needs no complements.

Sikhee to be fully realized needs only love, faith and regular devotion.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

Exactly

 

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Education and sikhi both need to be balanced for a successful personality. If you never learnt English. .. like my grandmum you would not be able to communicate on this website.  If you never learnt punjabi then you would not be able to read and fully understand gurbani. 

If you are not properly educated then you will not be able to earn your livelihood which is important as Guru Nanak dev ji tells us kirat karo. If you are not earning enough then can you wand chako... if you are not having any spare? 

If we are not doing any naam japna whilst getting our education then education alone does not proove to be fruitful.  

Therefore we need to balance our education with naam japna... and teach our kids the importance of both as well.  

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Although education and wealth (and status) aren't mutually exclusive, there's katha out there which discusses how Man finds himself completely entangled in the accumulation of money once he starts upon that road. Many say, "I'll be different. I'll know when to stop. I'll use my money for the betterment of my fellow man." And it never happens. Even when he or she is sleeping their soul is lost in how much must be made, or worried about not losing what they have. When you listen to something like that from a Gurmat perspective it hits you what a burden excessive wealth can be. Heck, even Charles Dickens did an admirable job of broaching a similar subject in A Christmas Carol. Definitely worth a read.

Of course, education and wealth, as I said, aren't always the best of bedfellows. Education for self betterment is one of the best things a person can do for themselves.

 

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10 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Although education and wealth (and status) aren't mutually exclusive, there's katha out there which discusses how Man finds himself completely entangled in the accumulation of money once he starts upon that road. Many say, "I'll be different. I'll know when to stop. I'll use my money for the betterment of my fellow man." And it never happens. Even when he or she is sleeping their soul is lost in how much must be made, or worried about not losing what they have. When you listen to something like that from a Gurmat perspective it hits you what a burden excessive wealth can be. Heck, even Charles Dickens did an admirable job of broaching a similar subject in A Christmas Carol. Definitely worth a read.

Of course, education and wealth, as I said, aren't always the best of bedfellows. Education for self betterment is one of the best things a person can do for themselves.

 

Some piercing truths there. Seen this happen with people I've grown up with.

I've got to check out A Christmas Carol soon. Been on Bleak House for a while now. 

 

George Orwell's Animal Farm is also VERY relevant to our community. It shows how an egalitarian movement becomes corrupted just like ours has been these days. 

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16 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

Just one point, education is not essential for sikhee to exist.

It is like saying, I am a teacher,  and this is essential for being a football player, for example. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Sikhee is complete by itself as per Gurmat, it needs no complements.

Sikhee to be fully realized needs only love, faith and regular devotion.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

I understand your point on a purely spiritual plain. But from what I can see, Sikhi itself has a broad education embedded within. If we look at bani (including the Dasam Granth), we see that it does cover a broad expanse of subject matter (i.e. not just spiritual). If we also look at dasam pita's early life, we also see some serious and sustained effort being made to raise the intellectual levels of his Sikhs through literature. If we perceive this as a whole (Sikhi from our Guru Granth and Dasam Granth as well as irrefutable historical evidence), it doesn't appear as if there is a line between Sikhi as a spiritual endeavour and Sikhi as a vehicle for intellectual and social (and even societal) development. 

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