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Shaheedi - Are there times when it is not worth it?


Ranjeet01
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In any act of the past of Sikh heroism/bravery, sacrifice and charity it is vital that we explore the contexts.

So for example we got this trend at the moment where village mentality simpleton youths are going around in UK gurdwara's making videos and shaming sewadars (like one who don't serve a homeless drunk white women) because that gurdwara has had problems with homeless non-sikhs coming in and causing a nuisance and not respect guru's home by covering their heads or his sangat and demanding food and stuff. These apnay youth idiots are now posting videos on facebook and youtube not giving the chance for the sikh sewadaars to explain their decisions in a calm rational and respect manor rather they launch suprise attacks on them video mobile phones recording and shouting at them trying to look clever by trying to shame them....

These jumped up little idiots should be looking out for their own sikh brother first rather than the rights and demands of a drunk homeless non-sikh person who does not care or will be any use for the sikh community who has limited resources in the first place. We are not a charity we are not a government we dont have any country we have just about have enough resources for our own people how we going to help others if we cant help ourselves or treat our own sikhs good first? This is why theres so many fights and hate between some Sikhs because they do not treat the Sikh brother and sister better than the non-sikh. In ancient times our Sikhs rallied behind sikhs first policy and then help the non-sikhs in trouble nowadays its opposite its like help the non-sikh who will smash your community apart against your own sikh bro/sis.

Also Look at "khalsa aid" run by ravi singh they do some admirable things but then they go off on a tangent and start having sewa/holidays in Bosnia, haiti, iraq, libya helping the "poor" moslems and christians out and meanwhile they aint converting to sikhi for jack they gonna use up our hard earned sangat aid and forget about us. Meanwhile the Sikhs who really need our help in afghanistan, pakistan, kashmir and punjab are suffering and getting converted by muslim and christians by force and financial pressures.  In what context in sikh history is aid given to non-sikhs like this? there is none.... its made up by people who think "sarbat da bhalla" means go around helping never ending non-sikh needy of the world and drain our communities resources. The actual meaning of sarbat da bhalla is wishing everyone well it doesnt mean you go around and helping them while neglecting your own......... especially as they never asked for Sikhs help in the first place and after your gone they wont care sikhs helped them either its business as usual for them. As for those who bring up bhai lehna's case who gave water to the enemies of sikhs on the battlefield that was exceptional circumstances during war that you give aid to you enemy if they ask for it. And in present times we have no country, we have no government we cant raise an army to help establish khalsa raj so that everyone is treated well we live in non-sikh nations that dont care for our community. Muslims/Christians have 100+ nations, huge oil regions, huge populations for creating charity wealth..... in what context are we going to help others when we cant even help our own first?

Also when we look at the sacrifices our Sikhs made for hindus by saving their women, they did so not only for the good will towards another dharmic faith but to teach the oppressor muslim invader abdali a lesson that sikhs are not a soft touch and will carry out militant ambush attacks on him and his army and by doing so they liberated his captured war booty that was stolen from lands of indian subcontinent. It was making a stand that he couldn't just come in our homeland and think he owns the place and so he got rushed and harassed by our fearless ancestors on horseback ...that violent brave-heart mentality securing our own lands was how they achieved greatness they were acts of self preservation of the sikh community securing their future by challenging the authority of who ruled the land ...and many of these poor hindu women later went on to marry their sikh rescuers as the hindu communities they were looted from shunned them as they had been defiled by the afghan muslim hordes.

If we look at the sacrifice guru teg bahadhur ji made for cowardly brahmin kashmiri hindu pandits it wasn't just for them but it was making a stand that he and Sikhs will not be dictated to by a non-sikh foreign power/occupier or told what to do or say in their own religion. Had he changed the Sikh religion to suit the needs and requirements of the mughul muslim authorities at the time it would have collapsed the Sikh religion as it would have shown the guru to be a fake and a coward thats easily manipulated by the ruler of the time. The Guru was a higher power and he knew his sacrifice would hold the honour of Sikhs high that so that they do not collapse and get swallowed up into one of the sects of islam and so by making that stand he embolden the more right wing and military minded sikhs to take action and thus his son Guru Gobind singh ji raised many militant Sikh orders to combat the muslim oppressors and orders to attack the mughul government were sanctioned which if we fast forward ultimately led to banda singh bahadhur smashing mughul power-bases like sirhind and creating the first sikh nation and after followed the 12 sikh misls and ultimately the conquesting sikh empire. Without Guru tej bahadurs sacrifice, the Sikhs would have been finished so in that context we can see that it was an act of self preservation for his beloved Sikh community and religion and not only to stand shoulder to shoulder with the pandits in their time of need.

Context is everything! And that is why whenever we look back at great and good deeds in sikh history by our Guru's and heros we need to understand the deep and complicated circumstances and contexts behind them.

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4 hours ago, genie said:

Also Look at "khalsa aid" run by ravi singh they do some admirable things but then they go off on a tangent and start having sewa/holidays in Bosnia, haiti, iraq, libya helping the "poor" moslems and christians out and meanwhile they aint converting to sikhi for jack they gonna use up our hard earned sangat aid and forget about us. Meanwhile the Sikhs who really need our help in afghanistan, pakistan, kashmir and punjab are suffering and getting converted by muslim and christians by force and financial pressures.  In what context in sikh history is aid given to non-sikhs like this? there is none.... its made up by people who think "sarbat da bhalla" means go around helping never ending non-sikh needy of the world and drain our communities resources. The actual meaning of sarbat da bhalla is wishing everyone well it doesnt mean you go around and helping them while neglecting your own......... especially as they never asked for Sikhs help in the first place and after your gone they wont care sikhs helped them either its business as usual for them. As for those who bring up bhai lehna's case who gave water to the enemies of sikhs on the battlefield that was exceptional circumstances during war that you give aid to you enemy if they ask for it. And in present times we have no country, we have no government we cant raise an army to help establish khalsa raj so that everyone is treated well we live in non-sikh nations that dont care for our community. Muslims/Christians have 100+ nations, huge oil regions, huge populations for creating charity wealth..... in what context are we going to help others when we cant even help our own first?

 

I agree with you that Sikhs shouldnt shame other sikhs, and sikhs should stand up for one another through the good n bad. Our trust on one another is gone, thats why we arent willing to sacrifice for one another. Watch simon sinek on this.

But, what u said about Ravi Singh is wrong. First saying they go on holiday was an insult. Second saying he is gonna use up sangat hard earned money is offensive. The sangat gave that money to him for that very purpose. That is wat they want him to use it for. Also its extra money, not money they needed to survive. Money the sangat can afford to donate. Many ppl do fundraisers but ppl xhoose to donate to khalsa aid out of all other sikh charities for a reason, they want to support that specific seva in wateveristan.Thirdly, ppl do care if u help them out. A gora who Ravi singh helped out in floods in UK, that gora went to help out in panjab.

And most importantly, i hate to be so selfish, but it seems the norm to ppl. Even trump felt no shame saying America first, the rest of the world may starve. It really is kalyug, me, mine reign supreme. Anyway u must have seen Ravi Singh documentary on BBC? That was priceless PR, other religions would give anything to have a piece like that. In america, sikh coalition spends alot of money trying to put sikhs on TV and give positive PR and spread awareness that we r not muslim. That documentary did all that for free and reached more ppl then we Sikhs could have.

Why dont u guys realize that there is a religious competition going on? All religions r being judged and those who do good deeds or good PR are winning? Thats why islam and buddhism is winning. And most religions seem to be dwindling, so we must do our part to insure Sikhs come out shining in this competition. I hate to put it so mercenary and missionary, because Ravi singh certainly doesnt do seva for PR, but payback of PR we get is amazing. And before u say, PR is not needed, basicsofsikhi created Sikh PA for that much needed Public Relations.in the documentary, the best part is when Ravi says, "Not one member of my community said, dont help them out they're Muslims. Not even one, Im so proud of my community" and throughout it Ravi said, "it is my religion that teaches me to do this"

5 hours ago, genie said:

In any act of the past of Sikh heroism/bravery, sacrifice and charity it is vital that we explore the contexts.

Also when we look at the sacrifices our Sikhs made for hindus by saving their women, they did so not only for the good will towards another dharmic faith but to teach the oppressor muslim invader abdali a lesson that sikhs are not a soft touch and will carry out militant ambush attacks on him and his army and by doing so they liberated his captured war booty that was stolen from lands of indian subcontinent. It was making a stand that he couldn't just come in our homeland and think he owns the place and so he got rushed and harassed by our fearless ancestors on horseback ...that violent brave-heart mentality securing our own lands was how they achieved greatness they were acts of self preservation of the sikh community securing their future by challenging the authority of who ruled the land ...and many of these poor hindu women later went on to marry their sikh rescuers as the hindu communities they were looted from shunned them as they had been defiled by the afghan muslim hordes.

If we look at the sacrifice guru teg bahadhur ji made for cowardly brahmin kashmiri hindu pandits it wasn't just for them but it was making a stand that he and Sikhs will not be dictated to by a non-sikh foreign power/occupier or told what to do or say in their own religion. Had he changed the Sikh religion to suit the needs and requirements of the mughul muslim authorities at the time it would have collapsed the Sikh religion as it would have shown the guru to be a fake and a coward thats easily manipulated by the ruler of the time. The Guru was a higher power and he knew his sacrifice would hold the honour of Sikhs high that so that they do not collapse and get swallowed up into one of the sects of islam and so by making that stand he embolden the more right wing and military minded sikhs to take action and thus his son Guru Gobind singh ji raised many militant Sikh orders to combat the muslim oppressors and orders to attack the mughul government were sanctioned which if we fast forward ultimately led to banda singh bahadhur smashing mughul power-bases like sirhind and creating the first sikh nation and after followed the 12 sikh misls and ultimately the conquesting sikh empire. Without Guru tej bahadurs sacrifice, the Sikhs would have been finished so in that context we can see that it was an act of self preservation for his beloved Sikh community and religion and not only to stand shoulder to shoulder with the pandits in their time of need.

Context is everything! And that is why whenever we look back at great and good deeds in sikh history by our Guru's and heros we need to understand the deep and complicated circumstances and contexts behind them.

My brother, no, please dont change sikhi to your limited view. It actually hurt to read this. Pearls before swine. That is wat happens when God actually sends down his true message to us petty humans. We distort it to fit our needs and times. Now i must say no religion, no matter how perfect can save humans, because it is so easy to change it to fit our narrative. We r not even goin through hard times now, no starvation, no hiding in jungles, and facts show Sikhs are most educated n wealthy and still we find it hard to be open minded, to follow vand ke shakna. I wont say more cuz i already wrote two long posts above n i think they explain wat i mean.

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6 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

I agree with you that Sikhs shouldnt shame other sikhs, and sikhs should stand up for one another through the good n bad. Our trust on one another is gone, thats why we arent willing to sacrifice for one another. Watch simon sinek on this.

But, what u said about Ravi Singh is wrong. First saying they go on holiday was an insult. Second saying he is gonna use up sangat hard earned money is offensive. The sangat gave that money to him for that very purpose. That is wat they want him to use it for. Also its extra money, not money they needed to survive. Money the sangat can afford to donate. Many ppl do fundraisers but ppl xhoose to donate to khalsa aid out of all other sikh charities for a reason, they want to support that specific seva in wateveristan.Thirdly, ppl do care if u help them out. A gora who Ravi singh helped out in floods in UK, that gora went to help out in panjab.

And most importantly, i hate to be so selfish, but it seems the norm to ppl. Even trump felt no shame saying America first, the rest of the world may starve. It really is kalyug, me, mine reign supreme. Anyway u must have seen Ravi Singh documentary on BBC? That was priceless PR, other religions would give anything to have a piece like that. In america, sikh coalition spends alot of money trying to put sikhs on TV and give positive PR and spread awareness that we r not muslim. That documentary did all that for free and reached more ppl then we Sikhs could have.

Why dont u guys realize that there is a religious competition going on? All religions r being judged and those who do good deeds or good PR are winning? Thats why islam and buddhism is winning. And most religions seem to be dwindling, so we must do our part to insure Sikhs come out shining in this competition. I hate to put it so mercenary and missionary, because Ravi singh certainly doesnt do seva for PR, but payback of PR we get is amazing. And before u say, PR is not needed, basicsofsikhi created Sikh PA for that much needed Public Relations.in the documentary, the best part is when Ravi says, "Not one member of my community said, dont help them out they're Muslims. Not even one, Im so proud of my community" and throughout it Ravi said, "it is my religion that teaches me to do this"

My brother, no, please dont change sikhi to your limited view. It actually hurt to read this. Pearls before swine. That is wat happens when God actually sends down his true message to us petty humans. We distort it to fit our needs and times. Now i must say no religion, no matter how perfect can save humans, because it is so easy to change it to fit our narrative. We r not even goin through hard times now, no starvation, no hiding in jungles, and facts show Sikhs are most educated n wealthy and still we find it hard to be open minded, to follow vand ke shakna. I wont say more cuz i already wrote two long posts above n i think they explain wat i mean.

Politically correctness and liberalism is a disease that Sikhs and Sikhi can not afford to indulge in any more.

All that I wrote I wrote because of truth and ground realities as I and many Sikhs see it. Everything we do must be looked at with Sikh historical context, we cant just start neglecting and killing off indirectly our own community to save others, I'm not going to support the liberal narrative of Sikhi any more that kinda approach has seen things like our guru's beadhi go on with mixed religion anand karaj for past few years resulting in negative sikh growth and demographics. That kinda nonsense and all the idiotic decisions our community has take to help non-sikhs and getting slapped in the face for it has to come to a stop asap.

In regards to Ravi Singh and khalsa Aid, I admire him and his work. I think what he is doing is wonderful as a humanitarian but as a Sikh he and his org is not doing much in what is required of him for his religions prosperity. He should be in afghan, paki, kashmir and punjab helping our oppressed and depressed Sikhs. Why arent you and fellow liberal Sikhs helping them rather than non-sikhs? Whats wrong with us that we do not see the crying and pain of our brothers and sisters in faith but we are ready to help Abrahamic communities that hate us and dont want to convert to sikhi but rather they want our people to convert to their backward medieval cults.

The only non-sikhs that deserve sikhs help are those who genuinely have no1 standing up for them like the yazadi's (as ravi singh is doing which is good). They are probably the only group I would say Sikhs should help they are like us  a people whose women were kidnapped and raped and their people beheaded and genocided against by salafi sunni muslims and no one in the world helped them apart from the other oppressed group the kurds.

 

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1 hour ago, genie said:

Politically correctness and liberalism is a disease that Sikhs and Sikhi can not afford to indulge in any more.

All that I wrote I wrote because of truth and ground realities as I and many Sikhs see it. Everything we do must be looked at with Sikh historical context, we cant just start neglecting and killing off indirectly our own community to save others, I'm not going to support the liberal narrative of Sikhi any more that kinda approach has seen things like our guru's beadhi go on with mixed religion anand karaj for past few years resulting in negative sikh growth and demographics. That kinda nonsense and all the idiotic decisions our community has take to help non-sikhs and getting slapped in the face for it has to come to a stop asap.

In regards to Ravi Singh and khalsa Aid, I admire him and his work. I think what he is doing is wonderful as a humanitarian but as a Sikh he and his org is not doing much in what is required of him for his religions prosperity. He should be in afghan, paki, kashmir and punjab helping our oppressed and depressed Sikhs. Why arent you and fellow liberal Sikhs helping them rather than non-sikhs? Whats wrong with us that we do not see the crying and pain of our brothers and sisters in faith but we are ready to help Abrahamic communities that hate us and dont want to convert to sikhi but rather they want our people to convert to their backward medieval cults.

The only non-sikhs that deserve sikhs help are those who genuinely have no1 standing up for them like the yazadi's (as ravi singh is doing which is good). They are probably the only group I would say Sikhs should help they are like us  a people whose women were kidnapped and raped and their people beheaded and genocided against by salafi sunni muslims and no one in the world helped them apart from the other oppressed group the kurds.

 

Genie 

I believe in enlightened self-interest. If we Sikhs are unable to help ourselves then we are not able to help others.

If we looked after ourselves first , non-Sikhs will quickly realise that the help we provide them should not go in vain which results in them treating us with contempt.

What you mention about Ravi Singh is very interesting. I have met Ravi Singh several times and he is a great guy, extremely positive and he has great energy, very chardikala.

You are not the only person to point out that Khalsa Aid does not really help other Sikhs.

But that is because it is the nature  of the organisation. It is predominantly an organisation that deals with natural disasters such as floods, earthquakes etc.

But when a Chardikala Singh meets another Singh, the positiveness increases and spreads the chardikala ness and inspires other Singhs to take action.

What Maharaj in his hukam does do is present an opportunity here and that is what you have noticed is that our brothers in Pakistan and Afghanistan and Punjab need help.

There is obviously a void there that needs to be filled.

 

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14 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

This is complete nonsense 

Your whole existence on this forum is a complete nonsense.

You have been outed long ago as a non-sikh peddling your atheist liberal views in here. You should have been banned long time ago for mocking Guru Ji's commandments for the Khalsa and advocating mixed faith marriages.

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9 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Selfless sewa to humanity, standing up for what is right should be exactly that.. Selfless. Not done for recognition. For me that is why guru jis sacrifice was a demonstration of the  beauty of 'truth'. Shaheedi is not a political tool to be deployed when we look at whether it is beneficial  

Ideally yes.

Problem is human nature. 

We can do Seva and not expect anything back. But we have to prepare ourselves to the fact that there are people will be ungrateful and do harm to you even if you help them and make sacrifices.

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God Is All- He came to Guruji in humility asking for help and it was granted. 

Langar was served to all castes and creeds, to sinners and saints. 

Sajaan Thug became a Bhagat of the Guru. 

 

Everyone's a potential Bhagat and everyone's learning as he wills them to learn. Sikhs need to practice a more advanced psychology.

 

He is All, God is One, and theres no Hindu and no Muslim.

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7 hours ago, Lionesswoman said:

 

 

He is All, God is One, and theres no Hindu and no Muslim.

Problem with this is that too many girls use a skewed version of this to date their pakistani boyfriend, who sees them coming and either uses them sexually and dumps them; converts them; or at worst pimps them out to his cousins and chachay. 

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