Is Sikhism A Organised 'religion' If So Is That Antithetical To The Teaching Of Gurmat?

[singhbj singh]

"I have always felt that the teachings of guru Granth Sahib ji is a message that provides a message that espouses a truth which transcends religion, is inclusive. Yet I feel that in the last 30 years especially we have seen a desire of the sikh community to develop a formalised structure which is problematic because of its inherent aversion to dogmatism?"  - Sukh Singh

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/is-sikhism-a-organised-religion-and-if-so-is-that-antithetical-to-the-teaching-of-gurmat.49457/

I agree with Sukh Singh would like to know how can a lay man avoid dogmatism ?

[dallysingh101]

I agree too. But I think the dogmatism started way earlier. It stemmed from the introduction of British/western conceptualisations on Sikhs during the colonial period that we haven't shaken off yet. Somehow we incorporated an Abrahamic framework on Sikhi and created 'Sikhism'. 

[jkvlondon]

It's simple remove the political interference on the gurdwarey  and then return to sangat led smaller gurdwarey/dharamshaley model where the local sangat make the decisions under panj piare of rehitvaan gursikhs ...but first remove the Golak mechanism as this what is the government keeps looting . Maybe instead have Khalsa Credit unions Branches which sikhs have accounts which they deposit their savings and daswand , so instead of funding sinful endeavours like weapons development, conflict metals/gems, etc and gaining bad karma from that. The money could be used to set up to give interest free loans to poor , this will help remove the exploitation of the poor and debt slaves . Slavery is what we are meant to remove from the planet , because Guru Nanak Dev ji went to Rome to tell the Pope that slavery is a sin against God's children . The Credit unions could also build school classrooms, akhardey/gyms  in villages and towns to provide free education and martial arts/sports  training , initial teachers will train first generation , then they the next generation and so on down the line , no-one should be uneducated in this day and age.  Business start-up loans could help develop green technologies and programs  which could be sold/taught world wide e.g. moisture capture , pollution reduction tested out on Punjab's soil first .

[MisterrSingh]

This is something I've been thinking repeatedly for the past few months. On one hand structure and organisation is needed, particularly for the "admin" aspects of ensuring a faith continues to function; there must be a certain amount of systems in place. But equally the Sikh faith has grown to become the very thing it rallied against.

[Akalifauj]

12 hours ago, singhbj singh said:

"I have always felt that the teachings of guru Granth Sahib ji is a message that provides a message that espouses a truth which transcends religion, is inclusive. Yet I feel that in the last 30 years especially we have seen a desire of the sikh community to develop a formalised structure which is problematic because of its inherent aversion to dogmatism?"  - Sukh Singh

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/is-sikhism-a-organised-religion-and-if-so-is-that-antithetical-to-the-teaching-of-gurmat.49457/

I agree with Sukh Singh would like to know how can a lay man avoid dogmatism ?

The poster has not stated any reasons on how Sikhi is an organized religion.  What formalized structure has the Sikh community created in the last 30 years?  He has not provided any Gurbani that his ideas are right.  We have Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaar saying Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji started the Nirmal Panth.  Throughout Gurbani, the word Sikh is used for a person who follows the Guru/Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  Instead this character, Sukh Singh, has gone against this definition and said everyone is a Sikh who has the desire to contemplate.  Contemplate/explore what, the stars, the Koran, or explore polar bears?  Clearly he doesn't accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji's definition.  Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji from the beginning gave instructions on what to do and what not to do.  First order is to accept One creator, second order is to understand this One Creator through the only Guru accepted by Akal Purakh.  Gurbani says fold your hands together and do ardas before Akal Purakh.  Is this not an order; dogma?  Hate dogma all you like, Gurbani is full of dogma because Gurbani is Supreme and will give his Sikh orders as Sikhs need to be instructed.   Every Sikh in Gurbani is given the same principles (dogma) to follow.  Short Sikhs don't have different principles to follow from the tall ones.  All are equal in the eyes of Gurbani. 

The problem is not dogma in Gurbani, but those who don't khoj Gurbani and then want to make false claims on what Gurbani is.  Sri Anand Sahib says, come Sikhs and sing the Guru's Bani.  If the Gurus were adverse to dogma and organized religion, they would have not given their followers the title Sikhs.  The Gurus created the Akal Takht and gave orders to all Sikhs in the form of Hukams.  These Hukams included the instructions not to associate with certain people in the past.  This is called running a Panth and saving the Sikhs from falling into hell.  The Guru instructs and we follow, it's very simple. 

Gurbani says, some people like to excite their minds with creating false discussions and arguments.  They don't go to the Guru for the true teachings, but they sure like to discuss false books and boost their name and claim fame.   

[jkvlondon]

one man's dogma, another's discipline ?

organised religion = special buildings for worship , priest class, missionaries/recruitment agency, exclusivity, political agenda

sikhi :

1. 'ghar, ghar andar dharamshal hoe kirtan sada vasoa' in every home is a place of dharam where praises always abides .... gurbani gives our true home as nijj ghar the heart  so no buildings are not necessary just the company of others in like frame of mind.

2. No formal priestly class like brahmins , catholic/anglican priests/pastors/vicars, mauvli/imam   just Gursikhs who do sewa of Guru ji on behalf of sangat in Gurdwarey can be informal arrangement of a member of sangat even children.

3. No formal recruition agency just word of mouth , example and parcharik teaching and discussing Gurbani.

4. Sikhi doesn't have exclusivity on Heaven like most other faiths , any one who is graced will achieve 

5. Political agenda is to bring food and justice to all  , this not contingent on a piece of land or border labelled in sikhs favour  look at our history.

 

[singh598]

Sikhism is not a religious mafia

it has basic structures in place such as panj piare, sadh sang at, kathavachak, 25 Singh, mukhi sevadaar, langeri Singh, Granthi Singh head Granth 5 takhat etc

 

all of the above are created by Guru Sahib to promote the Sri Guru Granth Sahib 

however Badal controlled SGPC and the weak Delhi and Haryana SGPC are nothing more than taking Sikhism towards a systematic religion not to mention sant deras 

[jkvlondon]

16 minutes ago, singh598 said:

Sikhism is not a religious mafia

it has basic structures in place such as panj piare, sadh sang at, kathavachak, 25 Singh, mukhi sevadaar, langeri Singh, Granthi Singh head Granth 5 takhat etc

 

all of the above are created by Guru Sahib to promote the Sri Guru Granth Sahib 

however Badal controlled SGPC and the weak Delhi and Haryana SGPC are nothing more than taking Sikhism towards a systematic religion not to mention sant deras 

so the best thing to happen to sikhi is the removal of the Government's legislation to control  gurdwarey , and the internal decisions of the sgpc. even dissolving the Sgpc

 

[MisterrSingh]

The root of the problem is twofold: the corrupt, irreligious, out of touch religious hierarchy for whom Sikhi is a money-making exercise like any other business, and secondly the adverse and malign influence of certain entrenched cultural norms and attitudes that followers of the religion refuse to relinquish. Add a few uniquely Western issues facing the Sikh faith in the diaspora (orthodoxy vs a flexible interpretation of the faith), and we're staring at some pretty major issues that are being allowed to fester. And that's all without mentioning the recruitment of young Sikhs into the various sect-like institutions, headed by savvy business men masquerading as holy men, that foster division instead of unity. Shall I stop?

[Akalifauj]

Since the above poster has taken the thread off topic.  The problem starts with not accepting Gurbani.  Read this pauri and never doubt it.

ਮਃ ੩ ॥     Mėhlā 3.   Third Mehl:

ਧੁਰਿ ਖਸਮੈ ਕਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਇਆ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਚੇਤਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥       Ḏẖur kẖasmai kā hukam pa▫i▫ā viṇ saṯgur cẖeṯi▫ā na jā▫e.   From the very beginning, it has been the Will of the Lord Master, that He cannot be remembered without the True Guru.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਿਆ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥     Saṯgur mili▫ai anṯar rav rahi▫ā saḏā rahi▫ā liv lā▫e.   Meeting the True Guru, he realizes that the Lord is permeating and pervading deep within him; he remains forever absorbed in the Lord's Love.

ਦਮਿ ਦਮਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਮਾਲਦਾ ਦੰਮੁ ਨ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਇ ॥     Ḏam ḏam saḏā samālḏā ḏamm na birthā jā▫e.   With each and every breath, he constantly remembers the Lord in meditation; not a single breath passes in vain.

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਗਇਆ ਜੀਵਨ ਪਦਵੀ ਪਾਇ ॥     Janam maran kā bẖa▫o ga▫i▫ā jīvan paḏvī pā▫e.   His fears of birth and death depart, and he obtains the honored state of eternal life.

ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਮਰਤਬਾ ਤਿਸ ਨੋ ਦੇਇ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੨॥     Nānak ih marṯabā ṯis no ḏe▫e jis no kirpā kare rajā▫e. ||2||   O Nanak, He bestows this rank upon that mortal, upon whom He showers His Mercy. ||2|| ang 556

 

There is only one interpretation for the first line.  There is only one Guru, from Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  Others can accept any prophet, messenger, devi, devta, false Guru as their teacher and they will not get anywhere close to Akal Purakh.  This is the reality, this is the flexible interpretation of Gurbani and the orthodox interpretation.  Only after meeting Satguru does a person realize Vaheguru is in him and his concentration stays on Vaheguru. No other method, path, philosophy, way of life, religion, teacher can provide you with anything.