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The Christian menace to Sikhi in Canada


Guest Jagsaw_Singh
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Guest Guest_Cndn
On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

Ooooh I dunno...maybe the bit when you said "Like c’mon.. Which kid wants to remember dates & names of panj takhts?"

I didn’t mean that they’re not happy to learn them; I just meant that it isn’t fun for most kids. Please stop being offended by something that your mind conjured up. Do you think that learning dates & names is fun for kids? What I meant (to spell it out for you) was that children, in general, approach things like dates & names with such disinterest, that it’s being proven to not sit in their memory banks. Such lessons have been found to be unmemorable, and ineffective for engaging children. Add this to the fact that it was about kids who attend the camp once a year. Is it not our responsibility to engage their interests in Sikhi? So.. Please express less sensitivity, and express more concern instead (I know you’re concerned), as I am discussing the failure within Sikh youth camps. If you’d like to discuss the factors we study to understand the developmental stages of cognition within children, we can do so in a different thread. (I know you’re concerned, but please don’t express more sensitivity than concern, as you did when jumping to conclusions about my dating life, and when you assumed that I think children shouldn't learn dates & names of the Panj Takhts.) To clarify again.. I never implied that they shouldn’t learn dates & names, nor that they’re not happy to do so—I only pointed out that children are uninterested in memorizing dates & names.

 

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

Look Guest Cndn,  let's get serious for a moment:

I know it’s just an expression, but I sincerely have been serious in my posts here.

 

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

The Sikh community is undeveloped mentally. It's behaving in the same way that Punjabi men used to behave in London and Birmingham back in the 1960s and 70s. It will mature. At the moment it is the epicentre of Punjabi culture throughout the globe but the Babylon of Sikhi.

I agree, and that’s why my first post in the thread outlined where I’m from. I dated a British Sikh in uni, and he always said that I was a breath of fresh air. That’s unfortunate, but he wasn’t wrong about Canadians lacking knowledge about Sikhi. (Btw, you didn’t respond to my response to your comments on me “dating so many guys”. I hope you changed your views on that to a far less Arab-Islamic outlook.)

 

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

Anyway......no offence to you....It's always nice to see a new face around here and I'm dead against the people that always make newcomers feel unwelcome and give them a hard time. That's not what I want to do at all.

Firstly, I didn’t feel offended— just disappointed in how you judged someone for simply dating, and also in how you ignored/ overlooked/ misconstrued my point on how children (naturally) dislike learning dates & names when it comes to things that they only come across once a year in youth camp.

Secondly, I’m not a new face here lol. I was a member for several years before I quit posting. Now, I only post in GUPT, less than once a year. Prior to posting in this thread this year, I hadn’t posted since 2016 I think.

 

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

I have previously explained, on other threads, that the white man (and you can easily substitute 'white man' with the word Christian) always finds a way of getting the brown and black man to blame themselves and start fighting their own. You may not realise it but that's exactly what you've done here on this thread.

Do you really think I’m fighting you, and/or that I’m blaming Sikhs? If so, you’re mistaken. By starting a dialogue about the mistakes that I’ve seen the Sikh immigrants make when running Sikh youth camps, you think I’m fighting someone here, or that I’m blaming Sikhs? C’mon now...

 

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

There are white christian movements based in Chicago, Toronto, Arizona and Kansas that are funding ways to erode the Punjab as we know and love it because they say we are backward an unenlightened.

Yes, I know this. It is due to the serious nature of this topic, that I joined the conversation in this thread.

 

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

Instead of fighting them and defeating them you've come along and done exactly what they want : You've come along and said the same thing, i.e. we are backward and unenlightened.

You’re thinking of someone else. Not once, have ever implied that Sikhs are backward, nor that Sikhs are unenlightened. In fact, you had stated something closer to what you’re accusing me of now:

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

The Sikh community is undeveloped mentally. It will mature. At the moment it is the epicentre of Punjabi culture throughout the globe but the Babylon of Sikhi. At the moment / [it] doesn't have the mental maturity to understand concepts such as collective morality.

Here, ? we can see that YOU did what you accused me of doing. (Not only did I not do what you accuse me of, but you’re blaming me in the same context of what you’re suggesting we shouldn’t........) Please don’t accuse others of something they, not only, didn’t do..but also, something that you’ve done. I don’t know why you’re now condemning what you did, while blaming me for it.

I’ve never suggested that Sikhs/Sikh communities are backward or unenlightened. YOU have. And then you falsely accuse me of the very thing which you condemned... Why?


 

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

The problem is not us, my canuck friend.

I was never one of the people in this thread who suggested that we are the problem.

 

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

Open your eyes and identify the enemy. You, as a Sikh, have a fight on your hands. And when I say 'you' I mean the collective 'we'.

That’s why I’m discussing it with the online sangat. I don’t know why you’re going about this in a way that suggests I’m blind to the facts (specifically, the ones presented in this thread.) It’s honestly beyond me why you’re jumping to conclusions about me.

 

You have been a bit unkind to me dear brother, and you’ve definitely passed prejudgments on me, and now, have even been hypocritical by projecting your own actions onto me while condemning them.

So, to you, I wish to say: 

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

the white man / (Christian) always finds a way of getting the brown and black man to blame themselves and start fighting their own. You may not realise it but that's exactly what you've done here on this thread. / Instead of fighting them and defeating them you've come along and done exactly what they want : You've come along and said the same thing, i.e. we are backward and unenlightened.


 

I don’t even know if you’ll see this or reply. Just thought I’d put my two cents in.
 

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Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh

4 Years.  That's the gap between me telling everyone here what's going on and the worldwide Sikh social media community finally 'becoming suddenly aware' of what's going on. 4 years is an awful long time to be napping. 

 

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Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh

Some valid and some ignorant and 4 years too late  points being made on the new thread on the main page:

 

Some things I've said here on this thread over the last few years that should now belatedly be considered, even if you have all been asleep for 4 years:

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Yeah it's nearly all American and Canadian (mostly American). If you take a closer look at how they're operating in rural Doaba it's actually really very interesting. I've constantly said on this thread that they're gowing at a rapid pace because we, as a community, are literally too dumb to even notice their operations. 

When you take a closer look at their (the Christians) modus operandi in Doaba you notice 2 things. Firstly, they have deliberately chosen not to build their churches in the centre of the villages. They have specifically targeted land around the Firnis of each village and being very careful to choose land that can be clearly viewed from all main paved roads. They have done this to ensure that the church and the large cross on top of it is the first thing that passing motorists notice when they look to their side at the village in the distance. This is a very calculated initiative by them. They understand well how the power of perception can change the whole character of a region.  They also understand that in today's buyers market in Punjab, where sellers are finding it impossible to find buyers for their land, they can very quickly, in the space of a few years, change the whole landscape of Punjab.

 

 

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Tell you what Ranjeet, you know how, on this forum, over the course of many years, I have consistently been saying how much it makes me cringe when Sikh organisations constantly and consistently say "our feelings and sentiments have been hurt" like immature children ?  Well the sad irony is that the thing we have been consistently using to prevent other groups saying anything against us is now being used by Christians as a tool against us - i.e. it's our own fault. The pathetic monster we created and then over-used to make it a criminal offence to hurt our feelings also means that nothing can be said or done against the Christians. This is a mess well and truly of our own making.

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Of course it's something else Ranjeet. The discussion taking place here among a couple of posters about caste is like someone that's never been to Portugal delivering a lecture about The Hills and Lakes of Portugal. The guy delivering the lecture needs to visit Portugal and the people talking about caste here need to get out there into the pends and cities of Doaba and see what's happening on the ground. There are Jatts, Tarkhans, Khatris, Churus and Chamars all becoming Christian (btw many of them still retain their kes and turban after conversion because the Christians preach the Nazerite gospel to them) and yet, even after conversion, each of those groups still only marry into their own groups etc. The grouping system (or caste - whatever you want to call it) remains intact even after they become Christian.  None of this has anything (hardly) to do with caste. The few here still talking about it are embarrassing themselves with their lack of knowledge of what's happening on the ground.  We all knew and accepted that the one trick pony Dallysingh101 was always going to take the discussion in that direction but the rest of the posters should have been intelligent enough not to fall in his trap.

I started this thread a long time ago hoping it would provoke some serious intelligent thinking and, if you look back at the first couple of pages, I've pointed out a few times that the Christians are finding it easy in Punjab because we, the Punjabis, are just too unintelligent to figure simple things out. Nothing to do with caste...….especially as the new mass of converts in Punjab are mostly high ranking Jatts and Khatris. It has everything to do with education and intelligence. When you have a society in which 99.9% of the decent schools in the state are Christian schools, it paints a picture in simple minds that being a Christian is associated with higher intelligence. And this brings us to the wider subject of intelligence itself :

The late great comedian once insulted his live show audience by calling them brainless dogs. They were laughing at his jokes and they found them really funny but Bill Hicks was a man that demanded more than that. He knew they were genuinely laughing because they genuinely thought the jokes funny but he also knew that they were not fully understanding the long preamble that was setting up the jokes and to Bill, that was more important than the punchline itself. So, he likened them to dogs watching a magician perform a magic card trick. The intelligent mind goes to a magic trick show knowing that the whole point is to be deceived. He knows he's about to be duped and simply finds it entertaining watching the magician dupe him. To the brainless dog however, the 7 of spades and the jack of hearts are both nothing but images on a piece of card. They watch the trick and they like it but they are not being duped because they don't even have the basic understanding to know that there is deceit and dupeness happening. Same with the masses in Punjab. They are not being deceived because they don't have the mental faculty to understand deceit. Like Bill Hick's brainless audience and the Dog watching the magic trick show they are simply appreciating and then swallowing everything that is thrown at them. To them, it's a simple question of maths that adds up. To them, the equation that makes sense is this:  Best schools are Christian + Rich western world is Christian + Nazerite gospels preach not cutting hair = Successful life. No dupeness going on. It's just that Bill Hicks's proverbial 'brainless dogs' reside in the state of Punjab.

 

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Any solutions?  Yes....we start with something simple - This is an ideal opportunity for all Punjabi Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus (including ravidassias) to come together, unite and work together.  Every Panchayat in every village in Punjab need to have discussions with their corresponding Tehsildars - make their concerns heard, i.e be on the look-out for and nip in the bud all attempts by Christians to purchase land around the firnis of each village. My understanding is that the land for these churches that have been springing up all over the place are being purchased by NRIs from North America who are very anxious and zealot about 'spreading the gospel of jesus' in Punjab.  When warning signs are triggered, i.e. the land is visible from main passing paved routes, the family are known to be Christian etc, the panchayat and tehsildar together must act to question the sale. None of this is new....What the Christians are doing in Punjab and how they're operating is not something new. I mentioned a few times on this thread - although nobody noticed - how the Christians in Punjab have taken a look at how the Sikhs have done things and copied the winning formula. Firstly, they took the  'our feelings and sentiments have been hurt' monster we created and ran with it for their own benefit, ensuring any criticism of them falls foul of criminal laws. Secondly, they looked at the purpose and position of the Nishan Sahib atop Gurdwaras across rural Punjab and ran with that too. They understood that by positioning the church and cross in strategic positions they could alter perceptions about the character of rural Punjab and by altering perceptions they were halfway there to conquering the mind. None of this is rocket science but all you guys on this thread talking absolute garbage need to start opening your eyes.

 

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Guest jigsaw_puzzled-singh

Actually, you know what, just refer back to something I wrote here in 2015 when Trump was just a TV reality show host and the right wing were looking for someone to be the front man of the new facist method. Here, in 2015, on the following thread, I warned all of you that the right wing are about to unleash a new type of politics and in this new politics the divisions between right and wrong...good and bad will be deliberately so obscured that you will not know what time it is. Indeed the politics will be so bad that what time it is will be more important to you. And herein lies a warning of the dire situation that will cause havoc for the entire world this November, December and January 2021.  Trump's made it clear that he won't necessarily accept the outcome of November's election and he's made it clear that postal votes is his reason. Anyone that knows anything about the mechanics of American 'democracy' knows that postal votes will be the deciding factor of the forthcoming US election and so Trump has already told us what he's going to do. And the connection between Trump and the Christian menace in Punjab ?   Every single Christian cross going up in Punjab is being funded by Trump supporting evangelicals in Texas, Kansas and Utah.

Here, in 2014/ 2015, in this thread, I said the following about the politics of confusion that is about to hit us. So, while I was here in 2014 warning of what was about to come what were you doing apart from ignoring my messages, making a toast and scratching your skid-marked backside ?

https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/76173-ghar-wapsi-in-punjab/page/3/

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So, I'm reading through every single post in this thread and I've realised something....we, collectivey, are an incredibly uneducated community. We don't stand a chance. The right wing Hindu groups that are the catalyst for this thread must be reading all the posts here and laughing their heads off that they're facing such an easy opponent.

Nothing to do with the 'christian menace' as such....Thats another issue. The fact is we're not even clever enough to know what is being done to us right in front of our eyes.

Collectively,we're not well-read and intellectual enough to understand how Putin's new idea of politics by confusion is being embraced by organisations all over the world, incuding our own UK govt. In Russia, the way Putin did it was by actively supporting, both in principle and financially, a cross-section of groups totally at odds with each other such as neo-nazi skinheads AND anti-racism groups. The idea is that you make a series of contradictory statements...do a series of contradictory things thus ensuring your enemy is in such a constant state of confusion that he no longer knows who his enemies are, thus rendering him ineffective as an opponent. This is exactly what the right wing Hindu groups in Punjab, such as the RSS have done over the last couple of weeks. They've been doing things on behalf of Sikhs...and for the benefit of Sikhism....such as converting chrstians back to Sikhism not because they are nice people. Its because they are probably 2 or 3 steps intellectually ahead of us.

Let me eplain, this new 'Putin' way is spreading like wildfire across the globe. Governments and institutions (like the Hindu RSS) are embracing it fully. The beauty of it, from their point of view, is that it leaves those on the receiving end of it (as this thread demonstrates : us) so confused it (we) no longer can the good guys be distinguished from the bad guys. To find the beauty in it you have to look into the world of art, specificaly Putin's main political advisor Vladislav Surkov. Surkov came to Putin from the world of art, and he used deconstruction art principles in politics. In other worlds, he created unreal realities or real unrealities ....where good can be bad and bad can be good...so people won't even see or notice the bad things you do because you ensure their minds are permanently focussed on the good. So, no matter what you do, you will always be seen as good.

Read books my brothers and sisters. Get yourselves well-read. Follow current affairs. Make yourselves highly educated otherwise....as every single post in this thread clearly demonstrates......your enemies are going to easily run rings around you and make you impotent

 

 

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https://theprint.in/india/how-christianity-is-growing-among-mazhabi-sikhs-valmiki-hindus-in-punjabs-villages/775047/

How Christianity is growing among Mazhabi Sikhs & Valmiki Hindus in Punjab’s villages

Christianity is growing in Punjab, mirroring what states like Tamil Nadu experienced in the 1980s and 1990s. Small churches are springing up on the rooftops of many villages.

SHUBHANGI MISRA 2 December, 2021 10:44 am IST
A Catholic church in Fatehgarh Churian, Gurdaspur | Shubhangi Misra | ThePrint A Catholic church in Fatehgarh Churian, Gurdaspur | Shubhangi Misra | ThePrint

Amritsar/Gurdaspur: Atop a roof in an obscure gully in Fatehgarh Churian, a Pentecostal church is in full swing. “Rabba rabba rabba rabba, pita parmeshwar teri aatma rahe… rabba rabba rabba rabba rabba…” a young boy raps into the mic, boosted to its maximum volume, adding to the trippy and eerie mood. The pastor places his hand on the heads of disciples as they shake violently. Some faint, others cry. But all are waiting for a miracle. 

Christianity is growing in Punjab, mirroring what states like Tamil Nadu experienced in the 1980s and 1990s. Small churches are springing up on the rooftops of many villages in Gurdaspur. Tired of centuries of casteism and systemic oppression, many Dalits, belonging to the Mazhabi Sikh and Valmiki Hindu communities living in Punjab’s border belt, have started looking to Christianity in the hope of a dignified life and access to better education. 

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