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'Armed' men storm occupy in Leamington Spa, say police

110 posts in this topic

10 minutes ago, genie said:

I always used to think lemmington spa was a strong hold of Sikhs but apparently its a strong hold of atheist punjabi pendu's posing as Sikhs.

You’re forgetting that Leamington is home to idiots like Aman Hayer and Notorious Jatt.

It’s definitely a Punjabi stronghold, nothing Sikh about them there.

Edited by MrDoaba

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2 hours ago, DhadrianwaleZindabad said:

What is the eventual long term goal of protesting at Anand Karaj's in western countries where 99% of the population are non-Sikhs? It is totally inevitable that 1% demographic minorities will intermarry.

Why are we not focussing on bigger issues that pose far bigger threats to the community?

Let's say, for example, every generation the protestors manage to block 20% of Anand Karaj's and successfully push the brides and grooms away from Sikhi ... how many generations will it be that the population of future Sikhs even willing to get an Anand Karaj will be left utterly negligible?

In the UK there might be 50,000 of marriageable age in 2016.

Block 20% from an Anand Karaj and you are left with 40,000

Next generation another 25% of the 40,000 left are blocked

... and so on increasing each following generation.

... until eventually the Sikh community in a Diaspora country is left demographically insignificant.

Surely, it would be better to try use someone's willing participation in an Anand Karaj as an acceptance that they are new Sikhs - as those who bow down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj are.

And to use this blessed occasion to integrate these new (Sikh) spouses within the fold of the Sikh Panth.

Obviously it is important the spouse rejects anti-Sikh concepts supported by Abrahamic religions such as slavery, pedophilia and violence against women as these are anti-Sikh concepts that no Sikh could tolerate being imposed on their own daughter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what you are forgetting is that is Guru Nank Dev ji , Guru Angad Dev ji, Guru Amar Das ji , Guru Ram Dasji, Guru Arjun Dev ji , up to Guru Gobind Singh ji sitting there in Darbar would you have the besharami to try telling them this stuff about numbers ? Who is to say that people will become less sikh ? Maybe for once, you could realise the sikh panth is not any different from other paths in this respect , in fact if our bibian do marry to those or hindu muslim faith they are than likely to never have sikh children as opposed to those marrying a christian (who have no strict rules on children, they too have to pick and submit) . There are many people who are of other faiths who have said what happened wasn't any different to theirs so what's the big deal . If these people have no concept of respect for Guru ji  they are better off going to a registry office.

an atheist will not be signifying joining sikhi, neither will a muslim or a christian or any other faith unless they are explicit and go through learning and attending gurdwara weekly for say a year ....should sort the wheat from the chaff. (most guys aren't that good at acting)

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1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

Although I support the protests, I feel they’re beginning to do more harm than good. The negative media attention is destructive (and cringeworthy); the news today has made us out to be knife wielding criminals. And the popular but extremely ignorant opinion of liberal “Sikhs” doesn’t seem to help. This recent episode makes me think Kirpana are going to get banned if they carry on like this.

The protests aren’t really working IMO or if they are considered to be working, their overall effect is definitely detrimental.

Anyway, protesting in places like Leamington, which is full of atheist Punjabi phudus, is an exercise in futility.

This has been a problem for Sikhs for decades. Whenever Sikhs stand up for Sikhi anywhere in the world, the media presents it in a negative way with half truths and lies.

 

Point is, the dogs(the media) are going to continue to bark, but Singhs need to ignore their barks and continue standing up for Sikhi. This Dunya will never stand in solidarity with Sikhs, never has and never will.  So we need not care for what they think of us.

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1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

You’re forgetting that Leamington is home to idiots like Aman Hayer

U r being bit harsh there, alot of aman hayers band frm the mid-2000s have become amritdhari sikhs in recent yrs. Infact quite few bhangra artists have, including specialist, ambi bilga, kaka mohanwalia, bally rai, ks makhan. Theres probably more i missed out. But yea, that lem spa gurdwara is 1 poisoned filled gurdwara, death to all committee h@ramis. Sikh council just released a video, sayin how the cops told them, the nakli lem spa committee, told police singhs were threatening sangat with guns, bats n weapons....complete utter lies. Thanks to those sons of b!tches, the headlines have been made to look million times more sinister than it was.

Edited by StarStriker

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57 minutes ago, Jonny101 said:

This has been a problem for Sikhs for decades. Whenever Sikhs stand up for Sikhi anywhere in the world, the media presents it in a negative way with half truths and lies.

 

Point is, the dogs(the media) are going to continue to bark, but Singhs need to ignore their barks and continue standing up for Sikhi. This Dunya will never stand in solidarity with Sikhs, never has and never will.  So we need not care for what they think of us.

I agree. My point was that we should be wiser as collective Sangat in tackling various issues and make small but effective inroads to implement change no matter how difficult it may be, instead of protesting. The way I see it is that many of our Guru Ghars are under control by non-Sikhs. If we (Diaspora GurSikhs) retake control, things will change apne aap, we just need to keep the bigger picture in mind.

 

54 minutes ago, StarStriker said:

U r being bit harsh there, alot of aman hayers band frm the mid-2000s have become amritdhari sikhs in recent yrs. Infact quite few bhangra artists have, including specialist, ambi bilga, kaka mohanwalia, bally rai, ks makhan. Theres probably more i missed out. But yea, that lem spa gurdwara is 1 poisoned filled gurdwara, death to all committee h@ramis. Sikh council just released a video, sayin how the cops told them, the nakli lem spa committee, told police singhs were threatening sangat with guns, bats n weapons....complete utter lies. Thanks to those sons of b!tches, the headlines have been made to look million times more sinister than it was.

My bad, brother, it’s been a very long time since I kept up with the Bhangra scene. I was referring to the overall mindset of the Leamington community, the typical “chak de phatte” attitude there. Sikhi is pretty much dead in those ends. Kanjar khanna prevails in Leam, strongly.

Edited by MrDoaba
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The hypocritical police comes out when they want to beat down common Sikhs, who include those with haircuts.  What did these Sikhs do wrong?  They stood up for the respect of the Guru.  The facts surrounding this incident are not important because the hypocritical police are flat out against standing up for Guru Sahib.  The news outlets will spread propaganda.  Nothing new and this should not stop good behaviour.  Not too long ago the hypocritical police were pulling at every torn string to save their baba.  Their Baba, Baba Balbir Singh (so called Hazuri Ragi) bowed at the feet of Ashutosh, a fake dehdhari Guru.  The whole event was recorded on video and is on youtube for everyone.  Yet the hypocritical police went on the defense and stood for the actions of Baba Balbir Singh.  Even the corrupt Jathedars summoned Baba Balbir Singh for his wrong actions, but for the hypocritical police, he was in the right.  The hypocritical police in Baba Balbir Singh case were also jumping to say let's wait and see for the full video before rushing to judgement.  In this case, Sikhs protesting, the hypocritical police jumped on the Sikhs without any video, or an accurate news article of the events.  Starting to sound like the Punjab police, right!!  Additionally, the hypocritical police made it all about themselves.  Stating how baba Balbir Singh helped him in his depressed times and I don't care what he does on his spare time.  Although this is completely irrational because a Sikh of the Guru is always a Sikh of the Guru whether hes on his free time or not.  But was a similar excused by this hypocritical police made for the Sikhs protesting?  No, instead the hypocritical police, much like the Punjab police started swearing at the Sikhs.  Would a person be more mad a Sikhs who try to follow Sikhi to their best and stand up for their Guru.  Or a person who deceived the whole Khalsa Panth by sitting on stage singing Gurbani, taking the Guru ki sangat money, along with funds given from the Gurdwaras and at the end bows down to a fake dehdhari Guru, named Ashutosh?  Who is the real thief here.

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/16980-shocking-video-of-bhai-balbir-singh/?page=1 

Before looking at others actions and calling them hypocritical.  Look closer to home and see, if the partner you have married is amritdhari and why do I have kids with a woman who is not amritdhari and broke you away from the Guru by making you into a patit. 

    

Edited by Akalifauj

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I forgot to mention.  Since the hypocritical police wants to hold the common Sikhs in contempt for good actions.  He should resign from the position of Root Admin of the website Sikhawareness.com because he is a total hypocrite for running a Sikh forum when he is a patit and supports the bowing down to fake dehdhari Gurus like ashutosh.  How can a person ever take this guy seriously ever?  From now on to put a point across.  I recommend we all start posting the one message when the hypocritical police post any type of post here.  You are a patit, you support bowing down to dehdhari Gurus, therefore you have no right to tell others to practice Gurmat. 

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11 hours ago, StarStriker said:

 

Hes no longer the presenter anymore, various presenters r filling in for him.

He was the better of a terrible bunch.  He did show some personality at times. The rest are robotic and reading a left wing script. Nuresh puri Is the biggest left wing extremist out and very robotic.... Was it discussed? 

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1 hour ago, Hammertime007 said:

He was the better of a terrible bunch.  He did show some personality at times. The rest are robotic and reading a left wing script. Nuresh puri Is the biggest left wing extremist out and very robotic.... Was it discussed? 

The presenter was a kurri called sonali shah, pretty sure shes a hindu. Gurmel singh frm sikh council was on, n he did well. The presenter blatantly was biased in her thinking, n didnt show any neutral p.o.v. One guy rang up, who was supposedly there, and a relative of the bride, talked so much crap and misinformation on sikh history it was embarassing. He must of been 1 in a long line of panjabi hindus ringing up pretending to be sikh. He said things like, none of the gurus had anand karajs, sayin how sikhs have always married muslims n hindu in history and the protestors r like muslim wing isis of modern days sikhi........massive facepalm!

So much bollox said by him n others i wudnt know where to start correcting the k@njar budda. About 3 callers compared the protestors to isis.....yea coz every1 knows, once the protest was over, the singhs beheaded the giani n filmed it, took all the women frm sangat as sex slaves n forcefully converted the goreh wedding guests.....wat bandhar ppl we have in r community.

Edited by StarStriker

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53 minutes ago, StarStriker said:

The presenter was a kurri called sonali shah, pretty sure shes a hindu. Gurmel singh frm sikh council was on, n he did well. The presenter blatantly was biased in her thinking, n didnt show any neutral p.o.v. One guy rang up, who was supposedly there, and a relative of the bride, talked so much crap and misinformation on sikh history it was embarassing. He must of been 1 in a long line of panjabi hindus ringing up pretending to be sikh. He said things like, none of the gurus had anand karajs, sayin how sikhs have always married muslims n hindu in history and the protestors r like muslim wing isis of modern days sikhi........massive facepalm!

So much bollox said by him n others i wudnt know where to start correcting the k@njar budda. About 3 callers compared the protestors to isis.....yea coz every1 knows, once the protest was over, the singhs beheaded the giani n filmed it, took all the women frm sangat as sex slaves n forcefully converted the goreh wedding guests.....wat bandhar ppl we have in r community.

sonali was getting funny, guy from sikh council uk smashed it!

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1 hour ago, StarStriker said:

The presenter was a kurri called sonali shah, pretty sure shes a hindu. Gurmel singh frm sikh council was on, n he did well. The presenter blatantly was biased in her thinking, n didnt show any neutral p.o.v. One guy rang up, who was supposedly there, and a relative of the bride, talked so much crap and misinformation on sikh history it was embarassing. He must of been 1 in a long line of panjabi hindus ringing up pretending to be sikh. He said things like, none of the gurus had anand karajs, sayin how sikhs have always married muslims n hindu in history and the protestors r like muslim wing isis of modern days sikhi........massive facepalm!

So much bollox said by him n others i wudnt know where to start correcting the k@njar budda. About 3 callers compared the protestors to isis.....yea coz every1 knows, once the protest was over, the singhs beheaded the giani n filmed it, took all the women frm sangat as sex slaves n forcefully converted the goreh wedding guests.....wat bandhar ppl we have in r community.

It's retarded how people use these terms without even knowing what it means. Sometimes you get these types using terms like Taliban or KHaliban and now these fools are using terms like ISIS for Sikhs who stand up for Sikhi. 

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14 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

what you are forgetting is that is Guru Nank Dev ji ,

>not at all JKV Ji. I am saying we need to follow the Gurmat example of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj and countless puratan shaheeds who married spouses (like Mata Sulakhni) of an erstwhile non-Sikh background and brought them into the fold of the Sikh Panth via Anand Karaj.

Guru Angad Dev ji, Guru Amar Das ji , Guru Ram Dasji, Guru Arjun Dev ji , up to Guru Gobind Singh ji sitting there in Darbar would you have the besharami to try telling them this stuff about numbers?

>not at all JKV Ji - wanting Sikhi to expand demographically is nothing to be ashamed of. We are currently 0.3% of the human race and instead of trying to welcome people into Sikhi, we are alienating and estranging them away. That's a recipe for disaster. Even in India, self-declared Sikhs were down to 1.7% of the population by 2011 and even in Punjab (if our community continues to do nothing to address the challenges facing us - which I should add you have put forward some brilliant idea's towards over the years) we are at risk of becoming a minority in the 2021 Punjab census (as a result of millions of Sikhs from so-called Ravidassia and Rangreta backgrounds being told to declare themselves as non-Sikhs by new apartheid-oriented Mandirs funded by anti-Sikh enemies).

Who is to say that people will become less sikh?

>Simple mathematics. If we continue to ban, estrange and alienate 20-25% of Sikhs from Anand Karaj in ever increasing numbers every generation it's a demographic inevitability that the Sikh population will dwindle if we continue like this. Respectfully sister, you should understand this better than most on this site.

Maybe for once, you could realise the sikh panth is not any different from other paths in this respect , in fact if our bibian do marry to those or hindu muslim faith they are than likely to never have sikh children as opposed to those marrying a christian (who have no strict rules on children, they too have to pick and submit).

>Not at all. Sikh ik vakhri Qaum ne. I sincerely believe that any child educated equally about Sikhi and the gods/goddesses of Hinduism or Islam's support for slavery/pedophilia or Christianity's support for slavery/genocide would automatically choose Sikhi provided we welcome them into the Sikh Panth as opposed to banning their parents from an Anand Karaj. 

There are many people who are of other faiths who have said what happened wasn't any different to theirs so what's the big deal.

>Let the Jews, Muslims and Christians do what they do. If they do not allow such couples to marry in their places of worship but we do - then the Sikh Panth would be the bigger beneficiaries. As Sikhi would be seen as the true and welcoming path it is embracing all humanity. Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is Jagat Guru for the whole world.

If these people have no concept of respect for Guru ji  they are better off going to a registry office.

>Who are we to judge who does or doesn't have respect? Let Maharaj be the Judge. Even if a couple might not necassarily be into Sikhi, who are we to effectively consequently deny and alienate their children away from Sikhi? How can we possibly benefit by forcing Sikh spouses to marry in Mandirs and Churches?

an atheist will not be signifying joining sikhi, neither will a muslim or a christian or any other faith unless they are explicit and go through learning and attending gurdwara weekly for say a year ....should sort the wheat from the chaff. (most guys aren't that good at acting)

>I absolutely support that all couples should commit to learning about Sikhi and the meaning of Anand Karaj prior to marriage. Our aim should fundamentally be to ensure that the children of such couples understand that they are Sikhs and feel welcome as part of the Sikh Panth. Obviously if a person supports slavery, genocide and violence against women as the Bible and Christians do or supports slavery, pedophilia and violence against women as the Quran and Muslims support, then extensive vetting of erstwhile Abrahamic faith grooms needs to take place.

> Every single person on this website has ancestors who entered the Sikh Panth via Anand Karaj and that's a fundamental historic truth about the Sikh Panth that we need to realise in order to deal with present circumstances in the Diaspora and outside of east Punjab.

Percentage of Sikhs in population:

India 1.7%

Canada 1.4%

UK 0.7%

Australia 0.3%

USA 0.1%

 

 

 

 

Edited by DhadrianwaleZindabad
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19 hours ago, DhadrianwaleZindabad said:

What is the eventual long term goal of protesting at Anand Karaj's in western countries where 99% of the population are non-Sikhs? It is totally inevitable that 1% demographic minorities will intermarry.

Why are we not focussing on bigger issues that pose far bigger threats to the community?

Let's say, for example, every generation the protestors manage to block 20% of Anand Karaj's and successfully push the brides and grooms away from Sikhi ... how many generations will it be that the population of future Sikhs even willing to get an Anand Karaj will be left utterly negligible?

In the UK there might be 50,000 of marriageable age in 2016.

Block 20% from an Anand Karaj and you are left with 40,000

Next generation another 25% of the 40,000 left are blocked

... and so on increasing each following generation.

... until eventually the Sikh community in a Diaspora country is left demographically insignificant.

Surely, it would be better to try use someone's willing participation in an Anand Karaj as an acceptance that they are new Sikhs - as those who bow down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj are.

And to use this blessed occasion to integrate these new (Sikh) spouses within the fold of the Sikh Panth.

Obviously it is important the spouse rejects anti-Sikh concepts supported by Abrahamic religions such as slavery, pedophilia and violence against women as these are anti-Sikh concepts that no Sikh could tolerate being imposed on their own daughter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no issue here to discuss, we have clear guidance from rehitnamas,rehit mayada and the 52 Hukums of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji maharaj. 

The very content and significance of the laavan themselves make it obvious that only 2 Sikhs on the path can possibly make such commitments. 

As Sikhs we follow rehit and hukum. It's as simple as that . 

Are you claiming to know better than maharaj that you want to change the conditions for Anand Karaj ?

So what if some atheist Punjabis are blocked. Sikhi is about quality not quantity . The required sacrifice is submission to maharaj offer your head to walk this path. We make no concessions for those who don't have the faith to walk this path.

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Just now, Cisco_Singh said:

There is no issue here to discuss, we have clear guidance from rehitnamas,rehit mayada and the 52 Hukums of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji maharaj. 

>Absolutely. Marriage via Anand Karaj signifies that two Sikhs are joining together in matrimony. The spouses of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, countless puratan shaheeds and indeed we as Sikhs all have ancestors that came into the Sikh Panth via Anand Karaj.

The very content and significance of the laavan themselves make it obvious that only 2 Sikhs on the path can possibly make such commitments.

>I agree with that. But are we going to become the thought police now and say who is or isn't Sikh? As opposed to trying to invite more people to Sikhi via positive encouragement and engagement with Sangat as opposed to alienation? 

As Sikhs we follow rehit and hukum. It's as simple as that.

>I agree. Puratan Maryada has always been that an Anand Karaj means that the two participants are (new) Sikhs. 

Are you claiming to know better than maharaj that you want to change the conditions for Anand Karaj?

>Not at all. I firmly believe in the Gurmat example of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj bringing Mata Sulakhni Ji into the Sikh Panth via Anand Karaj. I firmly believe that every Sikh should marry via Anand Karaj and I believe the more that do, the better for the demographics of the Sikh Panth going forward.

So what if some atheist Punjabis are blocked.

>But why do you (as a consequence) wish to lose all their future generations of children away from the Sikh Panth?

Sikhi is about quality not quantity.

>I agree with you in so far as that applies to the Khalsa Panth. But if a Sikh seriously wants to see an end to genocides against Sikhs, a future Khalsa Raj and Sarbat da Bhala throughout the world then numbers matter.

The required sacrifice is submission to maharaj offer your head to walk this path.

>I agree. Prostration before Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj has always been the first step of a Sikh.

We make no concessions for those who don't have the faith to walk this path.

>If one is willing to acknowledge that they are a new Sikh by bowing down before Maharaj, then who are we to judge what is in their heart (and thereby by denying them an Anand Karaj alienate them and their future children away from Sikhi). 

 

Edited by DhadrianwaleZindabad
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8 hours ago, StarStriker said:

The presenter was a kurri called sonali shah, pretty sure shes a hindu. Gurmel singh frm sikh council was on, n he did well. The presenter blatantly was biased in her thinking, n didnt show any neutral p.o.v. One guy rang up, who was supposedly there, and a relative of the bride, talked so much crap and misinformation on sikh history it was embarassing. He must of been 1 in a long line of panjabi hindus ringing up pretending to be sikh. He said things like, none of the gurus had anand karajs, sayin how sikhs have always married muslims n hindu in history and the protestors r like muslim wing isis of modern days sikhi........massive facepalm!

So much bollox said by him n others i wudnt know where to start correcting the k@njar budda. About 3 callers compared the protestors to isis.....yea coz every1 knows, once the protest was over, the singhs beheaded the giani n filmed it, took all the women frm sangat as sex slaves n forcefully converted the goreh wedding guests.....wat bandhar ppl we have in r community.

Not generalising but most of these Sikh liberal types/paki unity divs are usually from London or greater London. Jagsaw poster was a prime example.  However theres one singh I have met once whose  has a very strong East London accent,  is very strong on the subject of grooming and conversion,  and does alot of seva in.   Living in a cosmopolitan dump like London makes you weak, soft and tolerable to the intolerant. 

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Leamington is an affluent small town, middle class white people and sikhs are the only sizeable ethnic group.Muslims numbers are low.Sikhi is always followed more passionately in areas with large muslims populations.Mona sikh and mona amrithari converts will always have more fight and passion for sikhi than people born amritharis

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22 hours ago, Cisco_Singh said:

There is no issue here to discuss, we have clear guidance from rehitnamas,rehit mayada and the 52 Hukums of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji maharaj. 

The very content and significance of the laavan themselves make it obvious that only 2 Sikhs on the path can possibly make such commitments. 

As Sikhs we follow rehit and hukum. It's as simple as that . 

Are you claiming to know better than maharaj that you want to change the conditions for Anand Karaj ?

So what if some atheist Punjabis are blocked. Sikhi is about quality not quantity . The required sacrifice is submission to maharaj offer your head to walk this path. We make no concessions for those who don't have the faith to walk this path.

There are many atheist Punjabi people that go to the gurdwara to eat just langar but don't want to know what our G. Maharaj JI says. 

Edited by silverSingh
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Both the committee and the protestors are clowns intent on maligning the Sikh faith.

Hope both sides would grow up and stop acting like village idiots.

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The things that are not clear are :-

 

1. The Mixed marriage couple were they approached by the committee or SCUK to discuss the Sikh Ananad Karaj marriage ?

2. Did the couple and family understand , what they were doing and willing to sit down and listen  ?

3. Did the couple agree to partake in Anand Karaj as SCUK created an Anand Karaj declaration form which both couples had to sign and abide by.

4. Did the couple understand Anand Karaj is not a ritual ?

5. Were other options made available to the couple and family ?

I think based on this , judgement can be made . I am pretty confident if a learned sikh explained the concept of Anand Karaj  to the couple and family they would have a different view on the message sikhs want to portray regarding mixed marriages, assuming they want to listen.

Education is the key , whether mixed marriage or same marriage all the sangat should make an effort to learn and educate. IF the couple/family dont agree then simple dont do an Anand Karaj . But if the committee dont want to listen either then the sangat needs to wake up bombard them with letters, petitions , rallies so that whenever they come to the Gurudawara they will automatically resign.

The thing that I dont understand is that why is it we react when damage is done , why not act they way we do now to make them understand , we have Sikh TV channels , where news can be spread to the sangat and sangat can advise according to sikhi teachings.   

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17 hours ago, DhadrianwaleZindabad said:

 

The girls side was from Luton , which is pretty far away from Leamington Spa. From prior experience of knowing families that have carried out interfaith sham anand karaj ceremonies, I would say that education is not always the answer.

They know perfectly well that they do not meet the criteria for Anand Karaj, so after being rejected by their local Gurdwaras they seem out the rogue corrupt Gurdwaras that book the sham weddings.

Atheist Punjabis think they can bend the rules to cover up their own lack of faith.

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    • A true "Sikh" is one who believes in Gurbani wholeheartedly, They also believe Guru Nanak Dev Ji is the only ship that can save you in Kalyug. A true Muslim believes in the Quran and Muhammad wholeheartedly. Similar concepts for a Christian, so tell me how Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Muhammad and Jesus are all on the same level. If only Guru Nanak Dev Ji can save someone in kalyug these figures can't do anything. So uhm no, its impossible to be both.    Mool Mantar says "Gur prasad", with the Grace of the GURU. So tell me is Muhammad a Guru now? The only Guru who's existed throughout the ages and who exists for anyone in Kalyug is Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Rather than repeating the same trash again and again and again I thought it would be smart to ask you a straightforward question but it seems that has either exploded your mind or (judging by the fact you can't seem to formulate your thoughts into 1 post) you just wish to talk out of your rear end all the time. I'll ask you again.  A Muslim who proclaims Muhammad is the only way to God. How can he also proclaim that Gurbani is a viable Option. The very core of any muslim is the fact that they all recite that Muhammad is the only way to God. SO tell me how someone can say 2 polar opposites and also be both. How can someone call something a lie and the truth at the same time. Gurbani also states that the Quran, Vedas etc are all incomplete, How can someone sit there and say that but also say "the Quran is perfect" . Yeah no. Nice try. 
    • So you don't agree with mool mantar? 
    • Gurbani is unique and the message transcends dogmatism.. 
    • Someone who is a true Muslim, true Christian, true 'sikh' doesn't get lost in communalism