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Beadbi Ramgarhia Sikh temple .. Again !!!

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iaree Sadh Sangat ji 

Wahe guru ji ka Khalsa Wahe Guru ji Ke Fateh

They are at it again  . Thread on here back in 2010 

Please see letter attached .

Basically RST are considering in using the hall opposite the Gurudawara for Social Functions ( meat and Alcohol will be served)

Sikh Council UK are on the case 

We need to put pressure on the committee so that they think twice and put a stop to it.

Please email info@rstbirmingham.com or call 0121 233 2647 /5435 and voice your concerns ( politely and peacfully of course)

The more pressure put on the committee the better. Need to be done before 14th september

Lets apply as much pressure as possible ( again peacefully and politely of course) so this can be stopped.

letter.png

rst_letter2016.pdf

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Despite the efforts of a few sikhs trying to make the management see sense , as not to serve Meat and Alcohol at the hall owned by the Gurudawara , they still went ahead and passed their agenda amongst themselves and the first party where meat and alcohol was served ocurred on the 24th February 2017 and many more to come !!!!

Many attempts were made to contact the current management committee , trying to explian to them that no one is against any individual wishing to consume meat and alcohol , but rather the issue being these events should not happen in Gurudawara or Gurudawara buildings as its against Gurmat principles.

So sangat ji , need help as what steps to take next . The thread above( back in 2010/2011) , stating Satkaar committee wrote them a letter , held peaceful demonstrations , Sikh Channel broadcasted panth time from the hall and the management stated on 12th march 2011 that no more consumption of meat , alcohol and tobacco from there on .

 

But still it is happening today !!!!!!!!!!!!

We have approached the management committee , Sikh Council UK , Satkaar Committee , Ramgarhia Sikh Council UK ........ they do their little bit then it all fizzles out . Theres no real body that has influence over these few Gurudawaras. 

Sangat Ji , is this issue a non entity, a non issue ?

Not worth fighting for ?

OR should we make a stand and try to reverse their decision ?

 

 

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That's disgusting, using Gurdwara buildings like that.  The organisations you've quoted should be the ones that sort this out. I'm surprised that they don't do enough to put things right. What exactly are their roles, and why set up these groups if they aren't doing what they are supposed to? Like who else is going to do it, if they can't get through to them, and maybe the committees should attend some communication skills classes, as it looks like from what you have said they aren't communicating properly. 

Edited by simran345
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That's disgusting, using Gurdwara buildings like that.  The organisations you've quoted should be the ones that sort this out. I'm surprised that they don't do enough to put things right. What exactly are their roles, and why set up these groups if they aren't doing what they are supposed to? Like who else is going to do it, if they can't get through to them, and maybe the committees should attend some communication skills classes, as it looks like from what you have said they aren't communicating properly. 

I think its more of protecting your own back. Make sure you dont make the wrong move as we know the people in charge get Solicitors involved , make allegations against you , etc.... but they dont see that a Gurudawara is a central hub for sikhs and non sikhs to get enlightened from the teachings of Dhan Dhan sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj , but they dont see that , they see a building and profit.

Sadly its all a numbers game, a few of us have been trying since August 2016 to have dialogue with the management , but they dont want to discuss.

Back in 2010/2011 ( see thread attached) response was good . People called the gurudawara made their point , Satkaar committee wrote them a letter , held peaceful demonstrations and got them to stop using the hall from 2011 for consuming meat and alcohol . Now in 2017 same this is happening again and response is very poor.

I personally believe sangat needs to apply pressure in numbers , bombard them with their presence be it on the phone, letters or in person, hence why i see it as a numbers game .... in order for them to respond.

But the sangats views even on this thread is very minimal , which then makes me think , the cause we are fighting for is it a worthy cause .

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Guest Jacfsing2

Just looking st the name of the Gurdwara, you can tell it's not legit. (I'd like to see those 3% or less Brahmin Sikhs make a "Brahmin Sikh Temple", and see how everyone else reacts). Jatts and Khatris make-up a larger percentage of Sikhs than the Ramgharias, (and if we include the uncounted Vanjaria Sikhs the population goes up the roof), but I've never heard of a Jatt Gurdwara, a Khatri Gurdwara, or a Vanjaria Gurdwara, (unless the last one opens these Gurdwaras in their own social clubs). As long as you let these people make their own caste-gurdwara we will only have us vs them, and not a unity among all castes. 

(Why are people proud of their low castes? Heck on Wikipedia some Ramgharia had to lie about the caste of his people for some odd reason) "The Ramgarhia are a community of Indo Aryan Khatri Sikhs from the Punjab region of northwestern India.[1]

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Its so sad i know , but the point here is not about whether they are ramgarhia, jatt ,or whatever ... but do we say what they are doing as conforming to the Gurmat Marayada ?

The understanding I have is that Gurdawaras are registered charities,

Charity commission who register the Gurdawaras as charities have a set of rules and regulations they need to abide by . For example , charity name, the charity structure , who are the owners , what their objectives are etc...

This is where you have trustees, committee which should be selected from the sangat , but rather its more of an election , where only members can vote.... then it becomes a numbers game.

Gurudawaras commitee, trustees should be those who believe in Gurus teachings and want to provide a platform for the sangat to learn and take somehting away in order to make that spiritual journey.

Where these things happen and in this instance meat and alcohol are served in the hall owned by the Gurudawara which is about 50 yards away ? , Should we " the sangat" regardless of background, caste, colour , who believe in Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and its teachings to be the living guru for the Sikhs especially in Gurudawaras  make a stand or let it be ?

 

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4 hours ago, DSG said:

Its so sad i know , but the point here is not about whether they are ramgarhia, jatt ,or whatever ... but do we say what they are doing as conforming to the Gurmat Marayada ?

The understanding I have is that Gurdawaras are registered charities,

Charity commission who register the Gurdawaras as charities have a set of rules and regulations they need to abide by . For example , charity name, the charity structure , who are the owners , what their objectives are etc...

This is where you have trustees, committee which should be selected from the sangat , but rather its more of an election , where only members can vote.... then it becomes a numbers game.

Gurudawaras commitee, trustees should be those who believe in Gurus teachings and want to provide a platform for the sangat to learn and take somehting away in order to make that spiritual journey.

Where these things happen and in this instance meat and alcohol are served in the hall owned by the Gurudawara which is about 50 yards away ? , Should we " the sangat" regardless of background, caste, colour , who believe in Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and its teachings to be the living guru for the Sikhs especially in Gurudawaras  make a stand or let it be ?

 

Firstly I don't support community based Gurdwara's whether it's Ramgarhia or any other. 

Secondly they should be ignored just like Cults.

Thirdly if the hall isn't in Temple compound then why create a fuss ? Everyone knows how religious places are established & funded, why fake a moral high ground !

 

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Guest Jacfsing2
10 hours ago, DSG said:

Its so sad i know , but the point here is not about whether they are ramgarhia, jatt ,or whatever ... but do we say what they are doing as conforming to the Gurmat Marayada ?

The understanding I have is that Gurdawaras are registered charities,

Charity commission who register the Gurdawaras as charities have a set of rules and regulations they need to abide by . For example , charity name, the charity structure , who are the owners , what their objectives are etc...

This is where you have trustees, committee which should be selected from the sangat , but rather its more of an election , where only members can vote.... then it becomes a numbers game.

Gurudawaras commitee, trustees should be those who believe in Gurus teachings and want to provide a platform for the sangat to learn and take somehting away in order to make that spiritual journey.

Where these things happen and in this instance meat and alcohol are served in the hall owned by the Gurudawara which is about 50 yards away ? , Should we " the sangat" regardless of background, caste, colour , who believe in Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and its teachings to be the living guru for the Sikhs especially in Gurudawaras  make a stand or let it be ?

 

Don't make any caste Gurdwaras!

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Don't make any caste Gurdwaras!

Where there is prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj , is it termed as caste based Gurdawara ? .... No

Again I think we are failing to understand that where there is Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj , and practices are not according to Gurmat , sikhi principles then :-

a) do we just keep quiet and let it be

b) try to make a difference and keep knocking at their door .

Quote

Thirdly if the hall isn't in Temple compound then why create a fuss ?

Interesting comment . The Hall is owned by the Gurudawara , daswand of the sangat. So do you not think the hall should be used to tell the sangat about Sikhi , abide by Gurmat principles. In Bradford near a Gurdawara a slaughter house was opened , sikhs rallied, petitioned to get this closed or moved away from the Gurudawara. In fact the Sikhs believe Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj as the living Guru. If in physical form Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was present at the Gurudawara and these things were happening , would it be acceptable ? ( the fact is Guru Maharaj is present , but we dont acknowledge it ) .

 

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10 minutes ago, DSG said:

Where there is prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj , is it termed as caste based Gurdawara ? .... No

Again I think we are failing to understand that where there is Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj , and practices are not according to Gurmat , sikhi principles then :-

a) do we just keep quiet and let it be

b) try to make a difference and keep knocking at their door .

Interesting comment . The Hall is owned by the Gurudawara , daswand of the sangat. So do you not think the hall should be used to tell the sangat about Sikhi , abide by Gurmat principles. In Bradford near a Gurdawara a slaughter house was opened , sikhs rallied, petitioned to get this closed or moved away from the Gurudawara. In fact the Sikhs believe Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj as the living Guru. If in physical form Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was present at the Gurudawara and these things were happening , would it be acceptable ? ( the fact is Guru Maharaj is present , but we dont acknowledge it ) .

 

Guru Nanak Dev ji conceded in Japji Sahib that even negative & lowly people are Akal Purakh's creation n whatever pleases Waheguru is good done.

https://gurbaninow.com/shabad/18/149

It is their Karma !

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Guru Nanak Dev ji conceded in Japji Sahib that even negative & lowly people are Akal Purakh's creation n whatever pleases Waheguru is good done.

https://gurbaninow.com/shabad/18/149

It is their Karma !

I agree , but do we just let them carry on and say its karma , or do we make a stance and try to educate them , make them see sense . If an individual dont want to then its their prerogative , but i think we should not just let it be but try our best , especially when Guru Maharaj has given each one of us a choice , make a stance where things are wrong , wherever there is injustice , you will see a sikh .

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Guest Jacfsing2
59 minutes ago, DSG said:

Where there is prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj , is it termed as caste based Gurdawara ? .... No

Again I think we are failing to understand that where there is Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj , and practices are not according to Gurmat , sikhi principles then :-

a) do we just keep quiet and let it be

b) try to make a difference and keep knocking at their door .

You can't compare normal Gurdwaras to things that these folks are building. The caste is in the name of the Gurdwara, first we have to stop them from doing that and then fight the rest of the issues. If they wanted an alternative name to respect their people, they could've named it anything else: Jassa Singh Gurdwara could be a good example. You will never see any other caste build Gurdwaras with their caste name in front of the Gurdwara name. Caste is more Anti-Gurmat than anything else: you can see, that the old name of this place was Jassa Singh related. We can tell what group still goes the most, but at least it seems inclusive instead of this exclusive title. If someone named a Gurdwara, Sodhi Gurdwara or Bedi Gurdwara, I'd react the same way, when you got so many options, why pick the Anti-Gurmat title?

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49 minutes ago, DSG said:

I agree , but do we just let them carry on and say its karma , or do we make a stance and try to educate them , make them see sense . If an individual dont want to then its their prerogative , but i think we should not just let it be but try our best , especially when Guru Maharaj has given each one of us a choice , make a stance where things are wrong , wherever there is injustice , you will see a sikh .

"Change what you can, accept what you can't"

https://gurbaninow.com/shabad/33/317

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"Change what you can, accept what you can't"

With Guru Maharajs kirpa , we are trying ... nut no one is listening :rofl , as i already mentioned sadly its a numbers game , need the sangat to wake up and provide support , the more people knocking at their door , hopefully they will listen , one or two then they will carry on with their own agenda.

 

 

 

 

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On 4/20/2017 at 0:02 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Just looking st the name of the Gurdwara, you can tell it's not legit. (I'd like to see those 3% or less Brahmin Sikhs make a "Brahmin Sikh Temple", and see how everyone else reacts). Jatts and Khatris make-up a larger percentage of Sikhs than the Ramgharias, (and if we include the uncounted Vanjaria Sikhs the population goes up the roof), but I've never heard of a Jatt Gurdwara, a Khatri Gurdwara, or a Vanjaria Gurdwara, (unless the last one opens these Gurdwaras in their own social clubs). As long as you let these people make their own caste-gurdwara we will only have us vs them, and not a unity among all castes. 

(Why are people proud of their low castes? Heck on Wikipedia some Ramgharia had to lie about the caste of his people for some odd reason) "The Ramgarhia are a community of Indo Aryan Khatri Sikhs from the Punjab region of northwestern India.[1]

Don't be a naive. Other jaats have their own Gurdwaras too. Ramgarhias are either too dumb to be subtle about it like some others (by blatantly putting their name on it). Or are being brazenly open about it, when some others like to pretend they don't have caste preferences in their committees. 

 

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