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Beadbi Ramgarhia Sikh temple .. Again !!!


DSG
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Guru Nanak Dev ji conceded in Japji Sahib that even negative & lowly people are Akal Purakh's creation n whatever pleases Waheguru is good done.

https://gurbaninow.com/shabad/18/149

It is their Karma !

I agree , but do we just let them carry on and say its karma , or do we make a stance and try to educate them , make them see sense . If an individual dont want to then its their prerogative , but i think we should not just let it be but try our best , especially when Guru Maharaj has given each one of us a choice , make a stance where things are wrong , wherever there is injustice , you will see a sikh .

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Guest Jacfsing2
59 minutes ago, DSG said:

Where there is prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj , is it termed as caste based Gurdawara ? .... No

Again I think we are failing to understand that where there is Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj , and practices are not according to Gurmat , sikhi principles then :-

a) do we just keep quiet and let it be

b) try to make a difference and keep knocking at their door .

You can't compare normal Gurdwaras to things that these folks are building. The caste is in the name of the Gurdwara, first we have to stop them from doing that and then fight the rest of the issues. If they wanted an alternative name to respect their people, they could've named it anything else: Jassa Singh Gurdwara could be a good example. You will never see any other caste build Gurdwaras with their caste name in front of the Gurdwara name. Caste is more Anti-Gurmat than anything else: you can see, that the old name of this place was Jassa Singh related. We can tell what group still goes the most, but at least it seems inclusive instead of this exclusive title. If someone named a Gurdwara, Sodhi Gurdwara or Bedi Gurdwara, I'd react the same way, when you got so many options, why pick the Anti-Gurmat title?

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49 minutes ago, DSG said:

I agree , but do we just let them carry on and say its karma , or do we make a stance and try to educate them , make them see sense . If an individual dont want to then its their prerogative , but i think we should not just let it be but try our best , especially when Guru Maharaj has given each one of us a choice , make a stance where things are wrong , wherever there is injustice , you will see a sikh .

"Change what you can, accept what you can't"

https://gurbaninow.com/shabad/33/317

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"Change what you can, accept what you can't"

With Guru Maharajs kirpa , we are trying ... nut no one is listening :rofl , as i already mentioned sadly its a numbers game , need the sangat to wake up and provide support , the more people knocking at their door , hopefully they will listen , one or two then they will carry on with their own agenda.

 

 

 

 

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On 4/20/2017 at 0:02 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Just looking st the name of the Gurdwara, you can tell it's not legit. (I'd like to see those 3% or less Brahmin Sikhs make a "Brahmin Sikh Temple", and see how everyone else reacts). Jatts and Khatris make-up a larger percentage of Sikhs than the Ramgharias, (and if we include the uncounted Vanjaria Sikhs the population goes up the roof), but I've never heard of a Jatt Gurdwara, a Khatri Gurdwara, or a Vanjaria Gurdwara, (unless the last one opens these Gurdwaras in their own social clubs). As long as you let these people make their own caste-gurdwara we will only have us vs them, and not a unity among all castes. 

(Why are people proud of their low castes? Heck on Wikipedia some Ramgharia had to lie about the caste of his people for some odd reason) "The Ramgarhia are a community of Indo Aryan Khatri Sikhs from the Punjab region of northwestern India.[1]

Don't be a naive. Other jaats have their own Gurdwaras too. Ramgarhias are either too dumb to be subtle about it like some others (by blatantly putting their name on it). Or are being brazenly open about it, when some others like to pretend they don't have caste preferences in their committees. 

 

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Guest Jacfsing2
42 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Don't be a naive. Other jaats have their own Gurdwaras too. Ramgarhias are either too dumb to be subtle about it like some others (by blatantly putting their name on it). Or are being brazenly open about it, when some others like to pretend they don't have caste preferences in their committees. 

Whenever a Chamar makes a Gurdwara they are practical enough to call it Ravidas Gurdwara, (or something like that), the name of Bhagat Ravidas sounds inclusive, so nobody goes to say anything about the Gurdwara. Now these Ramgharias are being extremely obvious, (at least with the first one it's not obvious and the name is actually in-line with Gurmat), and they just pump their caste. A Khatri could make a Gurdwara named Hari Singh Nalwa or maybe Char Sahibzade Gurdwara, and it's not promoting any caste. A Jatt could make a Baba Buddha or Baba Deep Singh Gurdwara and it's not promoting any caste. Why can't Ramgharias do the same and be inclusive with their name like their original name: Jassa Singh Ramgharia Gurdwara, (take out the Maharaja), and it would be a Gurdwara I wouldn't accuse of castism. But if some guy out of nowhere started creating a Sodhi or a Bedi Gurdwara, I can bet you by tomorrow some SJWs would be trying to shut that Gurdwara down by tomorrow, (unlike this Ramgharia Gurdwara).

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10 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Whenever a Chamar makes a Gurdwara they are practical enough to call it Ravidas Gurdwara, (or something like that), the name of Bhagat Ravidas sounds inclusive, so nobody goes to say anything about the Gurdwara. Now these Ramgharias are being extremely obvious, (at least with the first one it's not obvious and the name is actually in-line with Gurmat), and they just pump their caste. A Khatri could make a Gurdwara named Hari Singh Nalwa or maybe Char Sahibzade Gurdwara, and it's not promoting any caste. A Jatt could make a Baba Buddha or Baba Deep Singh Gurdwara and it's not promoting any caste. Why can't Ramgharias do the same and be inclusive with their name like their original name: Jassa Singh Ramgharia Gurdwara, (take out the Maharaja), and it would be a Gurdwara I wouldn't accuse of castism. But if some guy out of nowhere started creating a Sodhi or a Bedi Gurdwara, I can bet you by tomorrow some SJWs would be trying to shut that Gurdwara down by tomorrow, (unlike this Ramgharia Gurdwara).

I don't know what it's like where you live. In England it's common as heck to have caste based Gurdwaras. People in local areas usually know clearly which Gurdwara is affiliated to which jaat even if the affiliation is not emblazoned on the sign infront of the Gurdwara. Like I said, everyone is doing it but some are just doing it openly. 

Lately I'm beginning to think it is good that there is diversity myself. Especially given what we've learned about the Singh Sabha movement being historically compromised by Christianity (and freemasons for all we know), Anglophile to sycophantic degrees and overly-politicised.  Plus the way it has just become another platform for some Jut agenda in modern times despite all the attempts to try and deny this. But that's a whole different topic.  

That all being said, this Ramgarhia Gurdwara is a disgrace if they are serving alcohol on Gurdwara premises. 

 

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Guest Jacfsing2
47 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I don't know what it's like where you live. In England it's common as heck to have caste based Gurdwaras. People in local areas usually know clearly which Gurdwara is affiliated to which jaat even if the affiliation is not emblazoned on the sign infront of the Gurdwara. Like I said, everyone is doing it but some are just doing it openly. 

 

Growing-up there wasn't a huge choice of Gurdwaras to choose from, so if someone was being castist, I wouldn't have noticed since for the most part the Gurdwaras were integrated. (But with the rise of Sikh in my general area there has been more choices, and from what I see my Rishtadhars basically go to almost all the Gurdwaras locally). The first time I actually noticed this was in India not the U.S. where people build caste-gurdwara, (with my own eyes, I saw some people wearing Gatras and Kirpans talking amount caste like it was some t.v. show that they just watched). Also I wouldn't know, because the extent of my involvement in the Gurdwara is at most some Seva, and not lot's of chit-chat,(which I've also seen in the Darbar hall).

47 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Lately I'm beginning to think it is good that there is diversity myself. Especially given what we've learned about the Singh Sabha movement being historically compromised by Christianity (and freemasons for all we know), Anglophile to sycophantic degrees and overly-politicised.  Plus the way it has just become another platform for some Jut agenda in modern times despite all the attempts to try and deny this. But that's a whole different topic.  

I think in terms of the caste system in Gurdwaras this was mostly started by Ranjit Sio's empire when he allowed Brahmins to taje over Gurdwaras. But I don't think we should argue on this point. That said I do think it's good to know who your ancestors were, and what they did for a living, but not in the Houses of Worship, (any religious place, since these places you are describing certainly aren't Gurdwaras if they discriminate).

But why is it the "low-castes", making their own Gurdwaras and not the "high-castes"?

50 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

That all being said, this Ramgarhia Gurdwara is a disgrace if they are serving alcohol on Gurdwara premises. 

Totally right, any Gurdwara with a caste name and serving alcohol is a disgrace. 

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4. If a large paercentage of Tharkhans, Bhatre, Ravidassia voluntarily go to apartheid based Gurdwara's then inevitably that strengthens the hands of castist Jatts that you oppose in other Gurdwara's. We need united Gurdwara's in the next 4 years in the UK as a pre-cursor to the same drive being led at pind level in Punjab if we don't want to become a minority even in little east Punjab. I see no reason why we can't have Panj Piare leading the merged Gurdwara's (even if that means taking one Panj Pyara each from the erstwhile apartheid committee Gurdwara's).

I think the majority of dharmic Juts became shaheed during the 1700 and 1800s hundreds. Lots of adharamic Juts also came into the movement during this time too because of obvious financial benefits. These people have no real feeling for Sikhi and and just see it as a useful cow to milk and exploit. They are actually more loyal to their culture than dharam and have done everything possible to ensure their key cultural values of alcohol loving, ostentatious posing, bhangra, as well as some falsely perceived caste based sense of privilege and general low IQ, raucous penduness have become equated with Sikhi through numerical strength. They've been consistently following a stratagem of infiltrating any Sikh institutes (especially where money is collected) and then twisting them into some Jut agenda tool (look at SGPC and Akal Takhat as examples), though they try and be very devious and sly about this (that infamous pendu cunningness). Any community outside of them (within the quom) who wants to save themselves from these kartootan need to keep a distance from them. I remember watching a documentary about some so-called 'low caste' apnay and discrimination,  and one of them made a really profound point that the development of the Sikh community has traditionally been centred around the Gurdwara. So when any one caste dominates Gurdwaray and then uses the funds disproportionately for their own jaat only, that jaat gets further developed at the expense of the others. Juts are intellectually slow too, and easy to manipulate against other Sikhs by outsiders. Look at their history at the  hands of Anglos for a perfect example. So if any other subcommunity in the quom doesn't want their Gurdwara contributions to be diverted to essentially prop up Jut cultural practices, they are better off keeping a distance. I'm not saying every last Jut is the way I've described above, and there are good individual Juts, but as a society they are rotten to the core. 

Regarding the Singh Sabha lehar. Okay, I concede that it did attempt some good things, especially in the field of literature, although their western/Christian influenced paradigm is now not only obviously inadequate but also downright destructive. They oversaw our sycophancy to the anglos (and mentality most of us still struggle to shake off), and didn't even support the brave brothers who were trying to fight to free Panjab from the white invaders. Instead they meekly accepted (now outdated) racial theories (scythian jut bull5hit, martial race theory and all that aryan/dravidian rubbish you still get dull witted apnay spouting), despite it being clearly in contradiction to the whole ethos of  the Khalsa and its clear demarcation along meritocracy principles - completely independent from race. 

All that being said, no Gurdwara should be distributing booze from Gurdwara premises in my opinion. But our position as a community is so comical in this respect because here we are talking about this, when our very own premier religious institutes in Panjab itself routinely busts out the bottles to get people's votes. Which is yet another example of jut cultural practices (the infamous boozy hospitality) becoming normalised amongst Sikhs. You just couldn't make it up!

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43 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think the majority of dharmic Juts became shaheed during the 1700 and 1800s hundreds. Lots of adharamic Juts also came into the movement during this time too because of obvious financial benefits. These people have no real feeling for Sikhi and and just see it as a useful cow to milk and exploit. They are actually more loyal to their culture than dharam and have done everything possible to ensure their key cultural values of alcohol loving, ostentatious posing, bhangra, as well as some falsely perceived caste based sense of privilege and general low IQ, raucous penduness have become equated with Sikhi through numerical strength. They've been consistently following a stratagem of infiltrating any Sikh institutes (especially where money is collected) and then twisting them into some Jut agenda tool (look at SGPC and Akal Takhat as examples), though they try and be very devious and sly about this (that infamous pendu cunningness). Any community outside of them (within the quom) who wants to save themselves from these kartootan need to keep a distance from them. I remember watching a documentary about some so-called 'low caste' apnay and discrimination,  and one of them made a really profound point that the development of the Sikh community has traditionally been centred around the Gurdwara. So when any one caste dominates Gurdwaray and then uses the funds disproportionately for their own jaat only, that jaat gets further developed at the expense of the others. Juts are intellectually slow too, and easy to manipulate against other Sikhs by outsiders. Look at their history at the  hands of Anglos for a perfect example. So if any other subcommunity in the quom doesn't want their Gurdwara contributions to be diverted to essentially prop up Jut cultural practices, they are better off keeping a distance. I'm not saying every last Jut is the way I've described above, and there are good individual Juts, but as a society they are rotten to the core. 

Regarding the Singh Sabha lehar. Okay, I concede that it did attempt some good things, especially in the field of literature, although their western/Christian influenced paradigm is now not only obviously inadequate but also downright destructive. They oversaw our sycophancy to the anglos (and mentality most of us still struggle to shake off), and didn't even support the brave brothers who were trying to fight to free Panjab from the white invaders. Instead they meekly accepted (now outdated) racial theories (scythian jut bull5hit, martial race theory and all that aryan/dravidian rubbish you still get dull witted apnay spouting), despite it being clearly in contradiction to the whole ethos of  the Khalsa and its clear demarcation along meritocracy principles - completely independent from race. 

All that being said, no Gurdwara should be distributing booze from Gurdwara premises in my opinion. But our position as a community is so comical in this respect because here we are talking about this, when our very own premier religious institutes in Panjab itself routinely busts out the bottles to get people's votes. Which is yet another example of jut cultural practices (the infamous boozy hospitality) becoming normalised amongst Sikhs. You just couldn't make it up!

How does the Jut jaat get developed to the expense of others?

Can also please explain how Jats are intellectually inferior?

Also, if Jats have low IQ and non-Jats have higher IQ, how have these non-Jats allowed to lower themselves to level of Jats and pick up these cultural traits. Surely being intellectually superior this should have not have been the case.

Why do you hate Jats so much?

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