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What was Guru Ji's rational behind the commandment Sikh daughters should only be given to Sikhs for marriage?

135 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, akaltaksal said:

Akaal Purakh is not within the bounds of right and wrong. Everything is in his Hukam, yes. The Mool Mantar is the essence of Sikhi, that's also true. But you forgot about the last word in the Mool Manatar , 'Gurprasad', "with the grace of the Guru".  Gurprasad is achieved after submitting to the Guru and following the bachans, hukams, and dictums given by Akaal Purakh via Gurshabad-Dhur Ki Bani.  

We accept everything is in the Hukam of Waheguru and Waheguru emanates within all, However, that doesn't mean we accept all actions, beliefs, and people without any regard to morality, ethics, and utmost Gurmat.  The statement you made would directly conflict with certain places in Bani and Hukams of Guru Sahib Ji. 

For example, a criminal commits a crime.  Now, we see that person as a human being with equal potential and Jyot.  However, that doesn't mean we stop using our Bibek Budhi and apprehend that criminal or legally restrict him from being in certain places and engaging in certain activities.  This is to ensure public safety and assure oneself that the likelihood of a crime is decreased.  

Now to further elucidate my point, there is a criteria for the eligibility of doing certain sevas, and holding certain sanskars such as Degh-Panchamrit Karah Prashad, langar seva, Panj Pyare seva, Granthi Seva, Amrit Sanskar, Charan Pahul sanskar, and Anand Karaj Sanskar. For example, in a military inauguration ceremony, there are certain requirements for being inaugurated, such as being a soldier of a certain rank. Now would it be logical and practical for a postman or a non-government or non-military personnel to partake in such a ceremony? Definitely not.  It doesn't mean that those people aren't equal or inferior. They simply do not meet the criteria and logically have no service or place there.  In that same line of logic, ceremonies such as Anand Karaj, Degh-Langar preparation, and administering Pahul have requirements and criteria that need to be met. 

Thank you very much this reply. This is a most welcome response. One clearly articulated and providing me with much to consider and think about. For that I am very grateful.

Sukh

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18 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

it was quite obvious when he made the classic mistake of parsad versus parshad and his dismissive attitude

I think you'll find I didn't make any mistake in what I was articulating.

And to clarify I haven't deleted my Facebook account. I'm very flattered that some people here have visited it. My name is sukh Virk. Not some made up tag to hide behind, I'm not one of the types of people who would mask up, pick up a sword and go down the gurdwara with my 'boys' giving it the 'big one' . I came to this site because it is called sikh sangat. And I am a member of said community. I voice my opinion because I have one and it is both a moral and ethical duty to call out against something which 'I' believe to be wrong. I will not be cowed or silenced. I will however listen and contemplate and consider different views and respect them regardless of whether I agree or disagree with them.

I'm here for civil discourse, I sometimes fall short of the high standards I wish I could live by and when I do I am my own biggest critic. I have been a sikh all my life and I am lucky enough to have guru sahib and gurbani to help me through life. Not that that means I know all of Gurbani or even understand it. But I want to learn more and more. I study lots of things art, philosophy, history, culture, theology, sikhi, gurbani, music, gurmat sangeet.

S

 

Edited by Sukhvirk76
Correction

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On 08/01/2016 at 10:37 PM, jkvlondon said:

nobody needs more headcases Hehe ... honestly I did nothing just looked hard and passed the whole thing to Guru ji's hand I would have been content to be single and do sewa of panth ... if Guru ji had made it so . Angelo is more sikhi khial than your average person , a real family person who understood that being a sikh is a hard choice and doesn't let up on the kids if they try slacking . In his words 'they will be better christians as Gursikhs, because they will have structure and method to their spiritual life' . He understands our struggles in Punjab and the evil nature of GOI. He's been to Amritsar Harimandir Sahib , Dhubri Sahib , Assam , ChungThan , SIkkim he believes in Guru Sahiban .

So JKV am I right in my understanding that your husband is not sikh? Did you get married in the gurdwara?

I'm not sure how to reconcile some of your opinions with this?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

So JKV am I right in my understanding that your husband is not sikh? Did you get married in the gurdwara?

I'm not sure how to reconcile some of your opinions with this?

Nobody should be insulting people personally on this site, not everyone has to agree with everything people do on this site. (Like if you decided to go under the "GUPT" section and said that you liked a Non-Sikh people would be assisting you, not throwing more weight. Also from what she has stated in previous posts; her husband has already been someone trying to follow Sikhi, and her kids are Sikhs.

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5 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Nobody should be insulting people personally on this site, not everyone has to agree with everything people do on this site. (Like if you decided to go under the "GUPT" section and said that you liked a Non-Sikh people would be assisting you, not throwing more weight. Also from what she has stated in previous posts; her husband has already been someone trying to follow Sikhi, and her kids are Sikhs.

I agree with you entirely. However, I believe my last post and the questions I posed have a certain validity. For someone who:

a) is quite happy to voice some very strong opinions against so called 'interfaith marriage' in a gurdwara but is someone who is in what some may call a 'interracial' marriage or 'interfaith' marriage. I'm curious to understand what subjective criteria they have used as a yardstick to measure why it is ok for them and not others..

Just to clarify my point and to speak hypothetically further, one may well say she did not have a marriage in a gurdwara.. However if we follow the argument and train of thinking that 'interfaith marriage' is proscribed by guru hukumnama, and a sikh should marry only another sikh then surely by not marrying in a gurdwara is just a way subvert your own belief system ie. To tell myself that I haven't done 'beadbi' (a term which I think is used far too loosely and conveniently) I'll not get married in the gurdwara.. This throws up many other moral, ethical and spiritual problems. As a sikh where you recognise sache-padsha, as the ultimate truth and to whom you have submitted to. Yet you haven't had the strength to undertake anand karaj then surely this is truly a sham marriage?

The question that one can then pose is in the eyes of guru sahib is that marriage valid?

B) if you are someone who interprets bani and hukumnama that a sikh should only happen between two 'Sikhs' then whether you do it before guru sahib or have a civil ceremony then according to this interpretation of Sikhi it is equally invalid?

Finally I would like to just say..

These are questions I have elucidating the problematic nature of this particular issue. My own desire is to want to explore and discuss and to contribute to a healthy discussion.

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1 minute ago, pardesanbibbi2 said:

I was elsewhere but I was redirected here to educate an oaf like you.  What a dunce!

Rise above it don't let the negativity of others drag you down.. It's bait I keep taking

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8 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Rise above it don't let the negativity of others drag you down.. It's bait I keep taking

I have noticed. You have my sympathies. Thanks for your help. 

1 person likes this

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2 minutes ago, pardesanbibbi2 said:

I have noticed. You have my sympathies. Thanks for your help. 

Hehe ☺

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2 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

So JKV am I right in my understanding that your husband is not sikh? Did you get married in the gurdwara?

I'm not sure how to reconcile some of your opinions with this?

 

 

my definition of sikh proper is Khalsa , however my husband is coming from another culture and so would fall in sehajdhari category and no I do not mean mona , he has full kesh , keeps dharda parkash, has learnt gurmukhi and can read, obviously doesn't have a massive vocab (in terms of bani) but still learning , goes to Gurdwara , gives daswand, doesn't eat meat eggs etc and supports his sons who are amritdhari 100% . He is torn as his family guilt trip him on his changes/lifestyle but he is being pulled by sikhi strongly. When we got engaged it was in Guru ji Hazoori and the same for our marriage , we have worked through life together with Guru ji as our guide , we have taught our children about sikhi  as we were supposed to. We are sikhs . You come across a little like the teacher who told me your kid is half brazilian and half sikh ...you are either sikh or not it has nothing to do with birth, nationality or colour.

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1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

my definition of sikh proper is Khalsa , however my husband is coming from another culture and so would fall in sehajdhari category and no I do not mean mona , he has full kesh , keeps dharda parkash, has learnt gurmukhi and can read, obviously doesn't have a massive vocab (in terms of bani) but still learning , goes to Gurdwara , gives daswand, doesn't eat meat eggs etc and supports his sons who are amritdhari 100% . He is torn as his family guilt trip him on his changes/lifestyle but he is being pulled by sikhi strongly. When we got engaged it was in Guru ji Hazoori and the same for our marriage , we have worked through life together with Guru ji as our guide , we have taught our children about sikhi  as we were supposed to. We are sikhs . You come across a little like the teacher who told me your kid is half brazilian and half sikh ...you are either sikh or not it has nothing to do with birth, nationality or colour.

Thank you for your reply. Let me please clarify, at no point would I identify with the teacher who told you that that your child is half Brazilian and half sikh.. I find it difficult to understand why with the expression of the opinions I have made you could possibly think that.

I also feel that you haven't responded to the questions I actually asked. Which is your prerogative.

I have a very open opinion of Sikhi and what a sikh is. My definition of a sikh is that there is no definition, whatsoever. We are all sikh each and every human being, whether we know it or not, and 'Truth' RESONATES within all and everything.

whilst we don't agree on many things we have discussed to date, I can say that I do agree with you with at least one thing, that your husband is a sikh.

I would also in my opinion say that he was a sikh before you ever met him and was even before he was even aware of 'sikhi' as way of life or 'religion'.

I have to say that I am actually quite relieved by the fact we have found common ground.

But I have to ask if you would be so kind as to consider the actual specific question I posed?

 

Edited by Sukhvirk76
Grammatical correction and revision of sentence structure.

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20 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Thank you for your reply. Let me please clarify at no point would I identify with the teacher who told you that that your child is half Brazilian and half sikh.. I find it difficult to understand why with the expression of the opinions I have made you could possibly think that.

I also feel that you haven't responded to the questions I actually asked. Which is your prerogative.

I have a very open opinion of Sikhi and what a sikh is. My definition of a sikh is that there is no definition whatsoever. We are all sikh each and every human being, whether we know it or not. So whilst we don't agree on many things I do agree with you with one thing that your husband is a sikh.

I would also in my opinion say that he was a sikh before you ever met him and was even before he was even aware of 'sikhi' as way of life or 'religion'.

I have to say that I am actually quite relieved by the fact we have found common ground.

But I have to ask if you would be so kind as to consider the actual specific question I posed?

 

Just one more point to add.. You open your reply with  "my definition" which suggests that the definition is subjective..?

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3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

my definition of sikh proper is Khalsa , however my husband is coming from another culture and so would fall in sehajdhari category and no I do not mean mona , he has full kesh , keeps dharda parkash, has learnt gurmukhi and can read, obviously doesn't have a massive vocab (in terms of bani) but still learning , goes to Gurdwara , gives daswand, doesn't eat meat eggs etc and supports his sons who are amritdhari 100% . He is torn as his family guilt trip him on his changes/lifestyle but he is being pulled by sikhi strongly. When we got engaged it was in Guru ji Hazoori and the same for our marriage , we have worked through life together with Guru ji as our guide , we have taught our children about sikhi  as we were supposed to. We are sikhs . You come across a little like the teacher who told me your kid is half brazilian and half sikh ...you are either sikh or not it has nothing to do with birth, nationality or colour.

Curious..

Either "sikh or not" ..

That is pretty unequivocal and definitive.

Yet at the very beginning of your post you chose to make a distinction by stating that your husband falls into the category of sehajdhari sikh, whilst you also define a proper sikh as khalsa.. So which is it?

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7 hours ago, pardesanbibbi2 said:

I was elsewhere but I was redirected here to educate an oaf like you.  What a dunce! I say this due to strange peculiarities of your mind in which it works, and fat determination on your part, not to learn any theories or doctrines presented by sharp and highly developed intelligent individuals or human beings they instructed  me to visit this exclusive website... nincompoop! 

Here is your reading list for the next two weeks:

Cinderella and her ugly stepsisters, Snow White and the seven Dwarfs, Three little Pigs.

Make sure you memorise spellings and new words too.

 

What else can be expected from a dumbo like you  who who does not even know what to post and where.

And also learn from the presented nonsense presented by your "highly developed intelligent individuals" 

who according to you has stated,"Religion is an opiate of the poor, uneducated, oppressed and the ignorant masses!”

and stop visting this website which is based on RELIGION.

I know it is a big ask but do try to get well soon.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, kangw said:

Omg, the fool never understood the post. You need a brain transplant to replace your penddu fudhu brain. Did you fall off the back of the lorry or what? As someone mentioned too many DDBz and FOBz all over the place. Scram and take your dung with you lowbrow trash, straight  from the pendd! Stop your trouble making.

Mind your langauage here retard.

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