What was Guru Ji's rational behind the commandment Sikh daughters should only be given to Sikhs for marriage?

[StarStriker]

4 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Thanks for your kind words, I really don't think I'm asking for very much..  Please provide me with a reference to gurbani where it is proscribed.. Can you please provide me with the text you have read so that I can refer to it, study and learn from it.  To progress this conversation could you please supply me with the source reference and any translation you are using. This will help us understand whether in the first instance we can be sure to be talking about the same thing. I am not looking for for 'evidence' as you say but for your assertion to be qualified I would say it is pretty standard practice to provide references. I have the greatest respect for Guru Granth Sahib Ji and would never wish to misinterpret the divine words nor accuse any one else of. I think rather than make judgements about me let's go through the text you are using and let's talk about it. I think we are getting closer you have referred me to first laava can you please illustrate to me how the bani here proscribes interfaith marriage.

Right.....so having told u where it is written, u STILL cant force urself to simply google translations? U really need to b babysat thru this? Ridiculous, u probably cant bring urself to the truth and realisation.

 

 

ਹਰਿ ਪਹਿਲੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਪਰਵਿਰਤੀ ਕਰਮ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

Har Pehilarree Laav Paravirathee Karam Dhrirraaeiaa Bal Raam Jeeo ||

हरि पहिलड़ी लाव परविरती करम द्रिड़ाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥

In the first round of the marriage ceremony, the Lord sets out His Instructions for performing the daily duties of married life.

ਬਾਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਵੇਦੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਹੁ ਪਾਪ ਤਜਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

Baanee Brehamaa Vaedh Dhharam Dhrirrahu Paap Thajaaeiaa Bal Raam Jeeo ||

बाणी ब्रहमा वेदु धरमु द्रिड़हु पाप तजाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥

Instead of the hymns of the Vedas to Brahma, embrace the righteous conduct of Dharma, and renounce sinful actions.

ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ॥

Dhharam Dhrirrahu Har Naam Dhhiaavahu Simrith Naam Dhrirraaeiaa ||

धरमु द्रिड़हु हरि नामु धिआवहु सिम्रिति नामु द्रिड़ाइआ ॥

Meditate on the Lord's Name; embrace and enshrine the contemplative remembrance of the Naam.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਆਰਾਧਹੁ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥

Sathigur Gur Pooraa Aaraadhhahu Sabh Kilavikh Paap Gavaaeiaa ||

सतिगुरु गुरु पूरा आराधहु सभि किलविख पाप गवाइआ ॥

Worship and adore the Guru, the Perfect True Guru, and all your sins shall be dispelled.

ਸਹਜ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਹੋਆ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਇਆ ॥

Sehaj Anandh Hoaa Vaddabhaagee Man Har Har Meethaa Laaeiaa ||

सहज अनंदु होआ वडभागी मनि हरि हरि मीठा लाइआ ॥

By great good fortune, celestial bliss is attained, and the Lord, Har, Har, seems sweet to the mind.

ਜਨੁ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਲਾਵ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਆਰੰਭੁ ਕਾਜੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

Jan Kehai Naanak Laav Pehilee Aaranbh Kaaj Rachaaeiaa ||1||

जनु कहै नानकु लाव पहिली आर्मभु काजु रचाइआ ॥१॥

Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the first round of the marriage ceremony, the marriage ceremony has begun. ||1||

ਹਰਿ ਦੂਜੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥

[kangw]

Sukhvirk76     10

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Thank you. I appreciate the link and comments. I can only apologise for being annoying unfortunately for me it appears to be about the only thing I'm any good at.

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I didn't mean it in a bad way. Good luck with your khoj.

[simran345]

Anyone else see the pattern that I can? ? Daal ch Kuch kala lagda. 

Mircha Baut a, par thorka jalgea. 

[StarStriker]

11 minutes ago, simran345 said:

Anyone else see the pattern that I can? ? Daal ch Kuch kala lagda. 

Mircha Baut a, par thorka jalgea. 

 

i dont even know, y i even bothered tbh.

[jkvlondon]

12 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

1. Could you explain why "broad beautiful" is a incongruous as a characteristic Sikhi?

the path is narrow and specific , it may be beautiful but only after dedicating one's all to it ... it's not empty headnodding  but from the heart/soul

 

3. I humbly request that you may share with me your thoughts as to how I am confused.

 

you are not humble and certainly not open to learning anything 

 

 

I thank you in advance. I believe that It is with gur-prasad that truth is revealed. And I am hungry.

 

you realise that was not funny at all

gurparsad is WaheGuru's kirpa/grace  not Karah Parshad .

 

 

 

[akaltaksal]

On 7/31/2016 at 0:32 PM, genie said:

In one of the 52 commandments Guru Gobind Singh Ji left for the Sikhs he stated that a daughter of the Sikhs should only have her hand in marriage given to another Sikh family. But he did not say the same for Sikh sons for them only given to Sikhs for marriage. Why was this? 

This question is mainly for the liberal lefties to ponder on.

Because to majority of learned and right thinking Sikhs he is clearly showing us how there is a difference between the genders when it comes to procreation and relationships. Sikh Men are like rocks in the ground they will usually stick to their reiligion. And Guru Ji knows the condition of men of all backgrounds are that they are tribal so its a given that sons will not let the Sikh side down. But most women are like sheep they will be lead to whatever religion their partner is a believer in. So if they are married off to non-sikhs then she will become that non-sikh and her offsping 9/10 times will be non-sikhs. For a pularistic faith like Sikhi it is especially dangerous for our demographics sake that Sikh women are raised in the belief that they only want to marry a fellow Sikh believer.

We can see countless examples of non-abrahmic faith communities whose populations have been destroyed because they did not control their womens choice of partner. We can look at the kalaesh of northern pakistan who are almost extinct due to muslims converting their women and creating more muslims. We can see zoroesterian persians who had a huge mighty empire that used to invade other lands but now are no where to be found only small communities scattered around the world because muslims forced islam on them and bred with their women creating muslims only. 

Which is why we know muslims try their best to groom and convert kafir non-muslim women especially those who they view they are in war in to get 1 over the kufr. And if you ever seen a marriage between a girl from Sikh background to a non-sikh groom you will find most of the time the kids are born as non-sikhs. So there is no equality in nature & biology nor in Sikhi nor in most human soceities that want to exist and excel when it comes to relationships there are clear set out rules.

 

In accordance with Authentic Puraatan Rehatname, men and women are both commanded to marry Sikhs. The Hukam applies to both genders.  A Sikh should marry a Sikh only.

Bhai Gurdas Sahin Jio says "Eik Sikh, Dohey sadh sang, panchi parmesar." 

It takes one person to be a Sikh, another to form sangat, and five to makes it the physical manifestation of Guru-Sarroop/Sri Akaal Purakh Bhagauti Mayee Waheguru Ji (hence Panj Pyare). 

This applies to marriage in the fact that when a Sikh (sahajdhari or Khalsai) is married, he/she has sangat. They have someone to do Bibeka and Gurmat Vichar with, someone to help them with Rehat, and someone to do Naam and Bani Abhyaas with.  Both genders are also then given Hukam to educate instill Gurmat and Gursikhi Jeevan within their children, especially the girls as Dasmesh Ji says "Yuvti Sut Vidya Bahu Bhai" and "Sikh Sikhni mil bahi charcha karhi apaar, bhajan sikhavahi putar ko, nit bhaj barang baar".

By marrying a manmukh, bemukh, asikh, kurehatiya, or durjan, one won't be able to live in accordance with Guru Sahib's Bachans and will. 

ਸਿੱਖ ਕੋ ਸਿੱਖ ਪੁਤ੍ਰੀ ਦਈ, ਸੁਧਾ ਸੁਧਾ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਇ।
ਦਈ ਭਾਦਣੀ ਕੋ ਸੁਤਾ, ਅਹਿ ਮੁਖ ਅਮੀ ਚੁਆਇ। 

"A Sikh should give his daughter (in marriage) to a Sikh. Thus Gurmukh meets a Gurmukh. Giving a daughter to a Bhadni (non-Sikh) is like giving nectar to a snake."-Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh.

One of the greatest techniques used by the Turkus against the infidels was attacking the women. Kidnapping, forced conversion and marriage, subjugation, and sexual crimes were used to down-size, intimidate, and decrease the population of infidels. This is evident in history, look at the Tatar raids on Poland, their actions in India, the action of the Turks in the Balkans, and so on. The Pathans and northern Punjabi Muslims are infamous for this. To protect against this, Guru Sahib Ji gave this Hukam as well as the Hukam for women to be armed. 

[akaltaksal]

16 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Firstly I don't understand the term 'interfaith' as being congruent with my understanding of Sikhi. I understand (and I may well be wrong) that EVERYTHING emanates and is created by  'ek oankaar' and that by not accepting that one doesn't accept the creative form 'Akaal'. To defend my view, as you say, or support my view/assertion, as I may, is the immutability of "ek oankaar". I think 'Mool mantar' is the very essence of Sikhi as expressed by guru nanak ji expresses this.

I have yet to be given any evidence that gurbani proscribed what you call 'interfaith' marriage. I am open minded and look forward to being corrected.

Sukh

Akaal Purakh is not within the bounds of right and wrong. Everything is in his Hukam, yes. The Mool Mantar is the essence of Sikhi, that's also true. But you forgot about the last word in the Mool Manatar , 'Gurprasad', "with the grace of the Guru".  Gurprasad is achieved after submitting to the Guru and following the bachans, hukams, and dictums given by Akaal Purakh via Gurshabad-Dhur Ki Bani.  

We accept everything is in the Hukam of Waheguru and Waheguru emanates within all, However, that doesn't mean we accept all actions, beliefs, and people without any regard to morality, ethics, and utmost Gurmat.  The statement you made would directly conflict with certain places in Bani and Hukams of Guru Sahib Ji. 

For example, a criminal commits a crime.  Now, we see that person as a human being with equal potential and Jyot.  However, that doesn't mean we stop using our Bibek Budhi and apprehend that criminal or legally restrict him from being in certain places and engaging in certain activities.  This is to ensure public safety and assure oneself that the likelihood of a crime is decreased.  

Now to further elucidate my point, there is a criteria for the eligibility of doing certain sevas, and holding certain sanskars such as Degh-Panchamrit Karah Prashad, langar seva, Panj Pyare seva, Granthi Seva, Amrit Sanskar, Charan Pahul sanskar, and Anand Karaj Sanskar. For example, in a military inauguration ceremony, there are certain requirements for being inaugurated, such as being a soldier of a certain rank. Now would it be logical and practical for a postman or a non-government or non-military personnel to partake in such a ceremony? Definitely not.  It doesn't mean that those people aren't equal or inferior. They simply do not meet the criteria and logically have no service or place there.  In that same line of logic, ceremonies such as Anand Karaj, Degh-Langar preparation, and administering Pahul have requirements and criteria that need to be met. 

[pardesanbibbi2]

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[pavitarsk]

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[Akalifauj]

35 minutes ago, pardesanbibbi2 said:

Karl Marx

Karl Marx, the great German philosopher says: 'Religion is the opium/opiate of the people/masses!'  

This is a very powerful statement, if you understand this, half your problem has been solved. 

Karl Marx viewed religion as a social control used to maintain status quo in a given society.

Religion is also a mechanism for social control. "Control" is the keyword here. I think,  his theory applies to every single religion as well as society. It has to, because, he was a great thinker and a philosopher!  When Guru Nanak came to this world religion was the monopoly of the Hindu priests. They controlled the masses with superstitions and black magic. They considered themselves to be the true followers of Hinduism. Satti was the norm. You are arguing with pupils from Kindergarten!

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Source: Boundless. “Religion and Social Control.” Boundless Sociology. Boundless, 08 Aug. 2016. Retrieved 07 Oct. 2016 from https://www.boundless.com/sociology/textbooks/boundless-sociology-textbook/religion-14/the-conflict-perspective-on-religion-107/religion-and-social-control-596-2095/

Image from Wikipedia

This poster has created multiple accounts. 

Karl Marx developed such ideas because he was heavily influenced by the Church.  Karl Marx spent most of his time in London, which was under the power of the Church.  The Church set laws by the standard of its religious doctrines.  Karl Marx saw how the Church controlled peoples lives and made a blanketed statement about religion.  He was a man with limited knowledge on religion.  You fail to mention how Karl Marx mentions religion is also good for those who are struggling to get out of poverty.  Karl Marx for the most part was not a troll like you.  If Karl Marx was here today, he would make the assessment how secular governments like France have turned into extremist to control what people wear.  Bikinis are forced on women by France like the Church forced laws on those who didn't follow the Church.  In conclusion, I am saying you are stup*d for thinking your mickey mouse arrogance can prove anything.  Keep going to school, you have not accomplished anything yet.