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Why Banda Singh Bahadur Kingdom Ended?


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8 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Baba Banda Singh was the first to admit he took things further than was needed, which is a remarkable act of frankness considering the savagery of the Mughal administration of the time. He acknowledged the fact that God was going to rein him in for his excesses, and that any punishment - be it temporal or in the hereafter - was entirely justified.

I find it interesting how certain sections of our people either can't reconcile themselves with the fact that morally questionable acts are committed during times of conflict (YES, even the "good guys" get their hands dirty; it's called fighting darkness with darkness), or flat out castigate Baba Ji as un-Sikh. I tell you, if I was around at the time and seeing Sikh babies torn from limb to limb and placed around their mother's throats as necklaces, I'd have been praying for someone like Baba Ji to emerge. Hindsight is great isn't it?

This would only be true if he actually did anything wrong, if he did ever commit a mistake in his life It's killing that pregnant deer and testing Guru Sahib. Him bringing Sharia Fanatics to justice was a very great deed. He was not sinning when he brought Jalad-Un-Din, (executioner of 9th Guru, Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji), as well as Gangu Brahmin, (Ghadar-traitor of Sahibzade). If you consider him bringing these men to justice as a Sin, then explain whatever Sins he did? Nindak-Slander is not encouraged in Gurmat, and even as a worldly person nobody likes that one who constantly insults others.

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7 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

This would only be true if he actually did anything wrong, if he did ever commit a mistake in his life It's killing that pregnant deer and testing Guru Sahib. Him bringing Sharia Fanatics to justice was a very great deed. He was not sinning when he brought Jalad-Un-Din, (executioner of 9th Guru, Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji), as well as Gangu Brahmin, (Ghadar-traitor of Sahibzade). If you consider him bringing these men to justice as a Sin, then explain whatever Sins he did? Nindak-Slander is not encouraged in Gurmat, and even as a worldly person nobody likes that one who constantly insults others

I suppose he was being modest and self-effacing when HE said this about himself in a conversation with the Mughal administrator responsible for his capture... actually, no, I'm not going to bother correcting you. I'm not interested in putting in the legwork and correcting laziness. I'll just ignore your posts from now on. No loss.

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On 7/13/2016 at 9:03 AM, Jonny101 said:

We have been brainwashed from that time to modern times. The only contemporary historical accounts we have of Banda Singh Bahadur are from Muslim and Mughal sources. After that the Sikhs who had abandoned Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in the fort of Gurdas Nangal and took benefits from the Mughals had to justify their treachery, and so they concocted lies about Baba Banda Singh Bahadur like saying he disobeyed Mata ji, he wore red, called himself a Guru etc. These traitors had then spread these lies to all Sikhs who unfortunately started to believe this as fact. It is only until the Singh Sabha movement that these lies were challenged and dispelled and Baba jee is now once again upheld as a Sikh Hero as he ought to be.

Jonny, on a personal level I have never had any problems with you on this forum. However when you start constructing "facts" to build a theory, I am sure more than one individual desires to silence you.

Number 1: Dr. Ganda Singh's work is not without error and here's why:

 

1.) He is of the mind (or this is the impression we get) that Ratan Singh Bhangu exacerbated certain elements in his Sri Gur Panth Prakash to paint Baba Banda Singh as a villain. He contends that Banda did not desire to be sovereign, but himself admits:

'With the establishment of his power, Banda Singh assumed regal state.'

-'Life of Banda Singh Bahadur,' 1935, pg. 80.

Jagjit Singh touches upon this point, in his 'Percussions of History, and elaborates that in a period of ideological ascendancy the Khalsa would have never tolerated individual leadership as the entire Panth was sovereign and not just one Sikh. Why the Doctor doesn't touch upon this point is a bit of a mystery.

2.) He asserts that the salutation of "Fateh Darshan" adopted by Banda was a war cry ('A Short History of the Sikhs,' vol. I, pg. 92). This then was abandoned as it was feared that it might replace the Khalsa greeting. There is nothing provided to substantiate the premises of such a fear; why would the Khalsa abandon it's Guru given greeting? The Doctor doesn't say.

3.) In a transliteration of Banda's edict, dated Poh 12; Sammat 1, the Doctor touches upon Banda's following injunction:

'Do not eat meat, fish or onion...'

He elaborates that: 'this injunction, for which there is no sanction in Sikhism, shows some of the old predilections lurking in Banda's mind.' (Ibid, pg. 92). We are never told how the Khalsa received this edict, and what it made out of these "old predilections."

(It is crucial to note here that in the above point, there is subtle concurrence with Bhangu).

Dr. Dhillon, another Banda scholar, would assert that prior researchers (including Dr. Ganda Singh) never provided or even utilized a full index of primary sources to narrate Banda's life but rather regurgitated familiar sources.

Kudos to Dr. Ganda Singh for his research, but he was a man of facts and sometimes the facts flabbergasted him to such a level that he had to provide assertions, rather than evidence, to attempt to verify his own standing.

 

Number 2:

Here is a recording of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Jarnail_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/41_Questions_with_Sant_Jarnail_Singh_Ji_Bhindrawalae/Sant.Jarnail.Singh.(Bhindra.wale)--41.Questions.with.Sant.Jarnail.Singh.Ji.Bhindrawalae.Part.01.mp3

What are his exact words?

"When Baba Banda Singh Ji- in error- expressed a desire to have his persona worshiped, Baba Deep Singh Ji opposed him..."

This is also verified by the Sri Panth Prakash. Several prominent jathas, under the command of Baba Binod Singh, left Banda owing to religious differences. However the Panth Prakash, for all its faults, also states that Banda himself then accepted the error of his ways during the last days of the Gurdas Nangal siege. His shaheedi and remorse so impressed the Khalsa, that the Panth held an ardass at Sri Darbar Sahib and forgave him. I do not know what you think about Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, but from what I have witnessed Hari Singh Randhavewale is a charlatan. Our differing views aside, hopefully this audio puts the matter to the rest and prevents you from slagging off more Gursikhs?

Nor do you provide any substantiation of how Binod Singh constructed the canards, and how they proliferated to such a degree in the Panth. Usually when cornered, your type claim either brainwashing or RSS.

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8 hours ago, 5akaalsingh said:

Santa Singh of his times? Let me correct you....Akali Baba Santa Singh ji may have agreed to repair the Akaal Takhat but that does not mean he was a traitor to the Sikh Panth. In fact, traditionally Nihangs were the Guardians of Akaal Takhat. Baba Santa Singh and Nihangs generally had close ties with the Taksal. Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Bhindranwale often brought goats for Jhatka whenever visiting a Nihang shauni. Baba Santa Singh had advised Sant Jarnail Singh ji not to be very close to Akalis, but at that time Sant Bhindranwale were already one front with them. So, Nihangs deserted Bhindranwale. 

Same thing happened with Baba Banda Singh. According to History of The Sikhs by Ganda Singh  & Teja Singh, THERE WAS NO FRICTION BETWEEN SIKHS. THERE WAS ONLY A CHANGE OF PLANS. BABA BINOD SINGH DID NOT AGREE WITH BANDA SINGH 'S STRATEGY AND DESERTED. THERE IS NO PROOF THAT HE JOINED MUGHAL ARMY. IN FACT, THE LETTER OF BHAI MANI SINGH TO MATA SUNDRI CLEARLY STATES THE SYMPATHY TO BANDA SINGH. THE BANDAI KHALSA APPEARED AFTER THE EXECUTION OF BANDA SINGH BECAUSE SOME SIKHS THOUHT HE WAS THEIR 11TH GURU.

Typical Jonny; if other threads are anything to go by, then he has run off now.

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On 13/07/2016 at 8:21 PM, Jonny101 said:

Yes you are right according to the lies spread by Binod singh about this great shaheed. Binod singh spread these lies in order to justify his own treason. All of these criticisms have been answered by Dr Ganda Singh in his book.

The way Baba Banda Singh Bahadur attained Shaheedi is the agni pariksha that proved beyond a doubt who is the true Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh jee and binod singh's collaboration with the mughals is proof of his double face. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur followed the the example set by Guru Gobind Singh jee and sacrificed his own son for the Panth while binod singh used his influence with his Mughal allies to free his son while all the other 700 Singhs attained shaheedi.

No wonder Sant jee had Darshan of Baba ji who was with Baba Deep Singh ji, Bhai Taru Singh jee and another great brahmgiani Shaheed Singh whose name I don't remember right now. This is the the high status of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in the divine Dargah. Doing Nindya of a Brahmgiani is Maha Paap. Just think, if you are wrong about Baba Ji, how much Paap you have put on yourself by doing his Nindya like this.

Jonny boy you are out of your depth on this one. There's a hukamnama from Mata Sundri Ji herself commanding that all sikhs abandon Banda because he had gone off the path of gurmat.

The only person who has done nindiya is you... saying those things about Baba Binod Singh... someone who stuck to gurmat & obeyed the command of Mata at all times... who the hell do you think you... read some books & think you know it all. 

For your information Baba Binod Singhs son was only released due to the intervention of Mata Sundri Ji herself.

And when Baba Mani Singh placed the two papers in the Harimandir Sahib sarovar to see which faction mahraj declared as the true Khalsa then it was Tat Khalsa under the command of Baba Binod Singh that mahraj chose & not Banda Khalsa (under command of Amar Singh if my memory serves me right)

In the future watch your mouth... reading a few books doesn't mean what you've read is the truth. And even if you wanted to express your views they could have been done politely 

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11 hours ago, 5akaalsingh said:

Santa Singh of his times? Let me correct you....Akali Baba Santa Singh ji may have agreed to repair the Akaal Takhat but that does not mean he was a traitor to the Sikh Panth. In fact, traditionally Nihangs were the Guardians of Akaal Takhat. Baba Santa Singh and Nihangs generally had close ties with the Taksal. Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Bhindranwale often brought goats for Jhatka whenever visiting a Nihang shauni. Baba Santa Singh had advised Sant Jarnail Singh ji not to be very close to Akalis, but at that time Sant Bhindranwale were already one front with them. So, Nihangs deserted Bhindranwale. 

Same thing happened with Baba Banda Singh. According to History of The Sikhs by Ganda Singh  & Teja Singh, THERE WAS NO FRICTION BETWEEN SIKHS. THERE WAS ONLY A CHANGE OF PLANS. BABA BINOD SINGH DID NOT AGREE WITH BANDA SINGH 'S STRATEGY AND DESERTED. THERE IS NO PROOF THAT HE JOINED MUGHAL ARMY. IN FACT, THE LETTER OF BHAI MANI SINGH TO MATA SUNDRI CLEARLY STATES THE SYMPATHY TO BANDA SINGH. THE BANDAI KHALSA APPEARED AFTER THE EXECUTION OF BANDA SINGH BECAUSE SOME SIKHS THOUHT HE WAS THEIR 11TH GURU.

Why are you trying to digress from the topic at hand? The so-called letter of Bhai Mani Singh Ji has already been proven to be a forgery done much later. We have more solid evidence in the form of Mughal communications (quoted in Gupta's 'History of the Sikhs,') the Sri Gur Panth Prakash, Suraj Prakash and so forth. 

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1 hour ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Jonny boy you are out of your depth on this one. There's a hukamnama from Mata Sundri Ji herself commanding that all sikhs abandon Banda because he had gone off the path of gurmat.

The only person who has done nindiya is you... saying those things about Baba Binod Singh... someone who stuck to gurmat & obeyed the command of Mata at all times... who the hell do you think you... read some books & think you know it all. 

For your information Baba Binod Singhs son was only released due to the intervention of Mata Sundri Ji herself.

And when Baba Mani Singh placed the two papers in the Harimandir Sahib sarovar to see which faction mahraj declared as the true Khalsa then it was Tat Khalsa under the command of Baba Binod Singh that mahraj chose & not Banda Khalsa (under command of Amar Singh if my memory serves me right)

In the future watch your mouth... reading a few books doesn't mean what you've read is the truth. And even if you wanted to express your views they could have been done politely 

Baba Baaz Singh Ji (son of Baba Binod Singh ji) was actually Shahid at Delhi. 

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