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Why Banda Singh Bahadur Kingdom Ended?

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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Something Daas wanted to know was how exactly from Banda Singh Bahadur having a kingdom and freeing Sirhind; was he forced to live in the jungles? Daas tried searching for an answer, but found very little details. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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Banda Singh Bahadur had no kingdom as he wasn't a king. The anti-Sikh notion of a monarchy wouldn't infect/spoil the Sikhs until much later.

Baba Ji minted his own coins but the proto-state he created was not really a proper nation, something which is coherent and functioning. It's life was too short for it to establish its authority in any real way , and it lacked an actual government to preside over laws, justice or politics, mainly because Banda Singh Bahadur was constantly on the move, never remaining long enough in one place to establish a new order. Once he liberated a settlement he would proclaim a governor then quickly move on to take the battle elsewhere. Let's be realistic, this is not what a nation looks like, this was a rebellion and Baba Ji was a rebel leader, not a king or ruler. When we acknowledge this it becomes much easier to answer your question and comprehend how he was forced to live in the jungles - this is something you might expect of rebels.

The dominion of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur was a tract of land which existed outside the authority of the Mughal Empire, and in a protracted state of guerilla conflict. It laid the foundation for the later Sikh kingdoms, but it can't be called one itself.

Edited by Balkaar
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Banda Singh Bahadur had no kingdom as he wasn't a king. The anti-Sikh notion of a monarchy wouldn't infect/spoil the Sikhs until much later.

Baba Ji minted his own coins but the proto-state he created was not really a proper nation, something which is coherent and functioning. It's life was too short for it to establish its authority in any real way , and it lacked an actual government to preside over laws, justice or politics, mainly because Banda Singh Bahadur was constantly on the move, never remaining long enough in one place to establish a new order. Once he liberated a settlement he would proclaim a governor then quickly move on to take the battle elsewhere. Let's be realistic, this is not what a nation looks like, this was a rebellion and Baba Ji was a rebel leader, not a king or ruler. When we acknowledge this it becomes much easier to answer your question and comprehend how he was forced to live in the jungles - this is something you might expect of rebels.

The dominion of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur was a tract of land which existed outside the authority of the Mughal Empire, and in a protracted state of guerilla conflict. It laid the foundation for the later Sikh kingdoms, but it can't be called one itself.

Thanks; that seems to make sense

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There is no sikh historic granth written in 18th century or before that praises banda bahadur. Suraj Parkash granth even compared banda bahadur to Abdali and claimed he wanted to be Guru. Same reference can be found in Prachin Panth Parkash of Rattan Singh Bhangu.

Edited by jassa

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Wow, must be a record!

Only third reply and we start Banda (Ji) bashing :-((

Edited by Bundha
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You are welcome to cross check the information provided.

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The only information I need is that Baba Ji was a mahaan mahapurkh and a true son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

All dusht who spew rubbish against Baba Ji can all go to hell !

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These Dushats are Rattan Singh Bhangu writer of Panth Parkash grandson of Mehtab Singh who killed Massa rangar and ‘Kavi Churamani’ Bhai Santokh Singh ji whose 2 Granths Nanak Parkash and Suraj Parkashs katha is done every day in all Gurdwaras around the globe. They might be RSS agents who knows.

And one of the very first person in punjab to write glories of Banda Bahadar was gujrati aray samaji dayanand saraswati who was also the writer of book "sikh hindu hai".

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These Dushats are Rattan Singh Bhangu writer of Panth Parkash grandson of Mehtab Singh who killed Massa rangar and Kavi Churamani Bhai Santokh Singh ji whose 2 Granths Nanak Parkash and Suraj Parkashs katha is done every day in all Gurdwaras around the globe. They might be RSS agents who knows.

And one of the very first person in punjab to write glories of Banda Bahadar was gujrati aray samaji dayanand saraswati who was also the writer of book "sikh hindu hai".

Where did that dusht dayanand write praise of Baba Ji? You are confusing him with Parmanand an Arya Samaji who wrote a book called Banda Bairagi or something like that. And the reason he wrote praise of him was because Sikhs had foolishly disowned Baba Banda Singh Bahadur (who in my opinion was one of the greatest Sikhs ever). So Punjabi Hindus who had no historical hero of their own started to steal our historical heroes like Baba Banda Singh Bahadur as their own. This guy Parmanand was the first of a long line of authors to write lies like saying Baba ji did not take Amrit and remained a Hindu and that it was a Hindu who gave the Sikhs freedom from the Mughals.

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Where did that dusht dayanand write praise of Baba Ji? You are confusing him with Parmanand an Arya Samaji who wrote a book called Banda Bairagi or something like that. And the reason he wrote praise of him was because Sikhs had foolishly disowned Baba Banda Singh Bahadur (who in my opinion was one of the greatest Sikhs ever). So Punjabi Hindus who had no historical hero of their own started to steal our historical heroes like Baba Banda Singh Bahadur as their own. This guy Parmanand was the first of a long line of authors to write lies like saying Baba ji did not take Amrit and remained a Hindu and that it was a Hindu who gave the Sikhs freedom from the Mughals.

I might be confusing the name thanks for correcting me up. My concern is not what Banda Bahadur did. My concern is why great sikh scholars of 17 th and 18 th century didnt wrote what we are reading today.

Kavi Santokh Singh writes that when Mata ji wrote letter to Banda Bahadur to stop after he conquered Sirhand. Banda Bahadar ignored and wrote back he is not sikh anymore but a bairagi. After this Tat khalsa left and stop giving him any military support and shifted their base to Amritsar Sahib where as Banda Bahdaur shifted to gurdas nangal. I am not saying it its written in our historic granths.

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I make no apologies. I make absolutely no apologies !!!

Even these Vidhwaans have made mistakes, there is a concerted effort to bring down Baba Ji.

Any Tom, D*ck or Harry can right a book and a half and purport to be an expert. They know nothing.

Baba Banda Singh Ji is up there with our glorious sahibzadahi and Baba Deep Singh Ji.

The Sikhs would say that it was "Khalsa Dhi Fateh", Baba Banda Singh Ji had darshan of Guru Gobind Singh Ji 24/7 and he would say "Guru Dhi Fateh".

We cannot sing Baba Ji's praises enough. Shame on you fools who thing the contrary.

It makes my blood boil!

I namaskar a thousand times to the charan of Baba Banda Singh Ji.

Edited by Bundha
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I might be confusing the name thanks for correcting me up. My concern is not what Banda Bahadur did. My concern is why great sikh scholars of 17 th and 18 th century didnt wrote what we are reading today.

Kavi Santokh Singh writes that when Mata ji wrote letter to Banda Bahadur to stop after he conquered Sirhand. Banda Bahadar ignored and wrote back he is not sikh anymore but a bairagi. After this Tat khalsa left and stop giving him any military support and shifted their base to Amritsar Sahib where as Banda Bahdaur shifted to gurdas nangal. I am not saying it its written in our historic granths.

We have been brainwashed from that time to modern times. The only contemporary historical accounts we have of Banda Singh Bahadur are from Muslim and Mughal sources. After that the Sikhs who had abandoned Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in the fort of Gurdas Nangal and took benefits from the Mughals had to justify their treachery, and so they concocted lies about Baba Banda Singh Bahadur like saying he disobeyed Mata ji, he wore red, called himself a Guru etc. These traitors had then spread these lies to all Sikhs who unfortunately started to believe this as fact. It is only until the Singh Sabha movement that these lies were challenged and dispelled and Baba jee is now once again upheld as a Sikh Hero as he ought to be. Edited by Jonny101

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Bundha first of all remove this from mind that I am disrespecting Banda Bahadur. I was just asking a question that our history says this till 1900 after that in 1920 it started saying this. Why is so. If you can understand this we will be on same page.

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We have been brainwashed from that time to modern times. The only contemporary historical accounts we have of Banda Singh Bahadur are from Muslim and Mughal sources. After that the Sikhs who had abandoned Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in the fort of Gurdas Nangal and took benefits from the Mughals had to justify their treachery, and so they concocted lies about Baba Banda Singh Bahadur like saying he disobeyed Mata ji, he wore red, called himself a Guru etc. These traitors had then spread these lies to all Sikhs who unfortunately started to believe this as fact. It is only until the Singh Sabha movement that these lies were challenged and dispelled and Baba jee is now once again upheld as a Sikh Hero as he ought to be.

But the few singhs who left Banda Bahadur under the leadership Of Baba Binod Singh ( One of 5 sikhs sent along with Banda Bahadur and 1st Jathedar of Budhadal ) were like Shaheed Baba Deep Singh, Shaheed Bhai Chitar Singh ( Son of Bhai Mani Singh ) etc. Do you still think they did treachery and spread concocted lies ? I doubt that.

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But the few singhs who left Banda Bahadur under the leadership Of Baba Binod Singh ( One of 5 sikhs sent along with Banda Bahadur and 1st Jathedar of Budhadal ) were like Shaheed Baba Deep Singh, Shaheed Bhai Chitar Singh ( Son of Bhai Mani Singh ) etc. Do you still think they did treachery and spread concocted lies ? I doubt that.

Binod Singh is nothing like Baba Deep Singh jee. Binod Singh even received land or sone kind of benefit from the Mughals for abandoning Baba Banda Singh Babahdur. What is interesting is, even Binod Singh's nephew had refused to follow his treacherous way and remained in Gurdas Nangal with Baba Banda Singh Babahdur. Later when all the Singhs along with Banda Singh Bahadur were caught alive and we're being sent to Delhi, Binod Singh used his influence with the Mughals and saved his nephew from execution. Binod Singh was basically the Santa Singh of his times or should I say Santa Singh was the Binod Singh of our times.

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It was his son kahan singh not nephew and Binod Singh ordered him to stay with Banda bahadur becuase he along with other 2 Singhs, Fathe Singh ( Singh who killed Wazir Khan in battle of Sirhand ) and Ram Singh were leaving him. So Binod Singh ordered Baaj Singh and Kahan Singh to stay with Banda bahadur even though they wanted to leave as well. So 3 Singhs out of 5 sent by Guru Gobind Singh ji along with Shaheeds like Baba Deep Singh ji and Chitar Singh Ji left.

Ok even If I agree Binod singh was not a Good despite being made head of these 5 singhs by Guru Gobind Singh ji and had full support of Mata ji bhai Mani Singh ji. Why Baba Deep Singh left banda bahadur ?

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It was his son kahan singh not nephew and Binod Singh ordered him to stay with Banda bahadur becuase he along with other 2 Singhs, Fathe Singh ( Singh who killed Wazir Khan in battle of Sirhand ) and Ram Singh were leaving him. So Binod Singh ordered Baaj Singh and Kahan Singh to stay with Banda bahadur even though they wanted to leave as well. So 3 Singhs out of 5 sent by Guru Gobind Singh ji along with Shaheeds like Baba Deep Singh ji and Chitar Singh Ji left.

Ok even If I agree Binod singh was not a Good despite being made head of these 5 singhs by Guru Gobind Singh ji and had full support of Mata ji bhai Mani Singh ji. Why Baba Deep Singh left banda bahadur ?

My mistake since I thought Buddha Dal Jathadar are not allowed to be married so I assumed it was his nephew and not son. So this proves Buddha Dal Jathadar can be married and have kids.

Now think logically, how can a collaborator of the Mughals be a good Singh? He saved his own son from execution while letting all the other Singhs die. While those that proved their faith in Guru Sahib became Shaheed in Delhi but did not collaborate with the enemy. This is what Banda Singh Bahadur did. Had his son killed in front of his eyes in the most horrible way, had his own body go through the most painful torture imagination but did not become a collaborator like binod singh, you still think negatively of this great Sikh of the Guru? C'mon Singh, use some Bibek Budhi here.

Look at our own modern times where we have propaganda against Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale by Hindus and even by Sikhs. Same was done with Baba Banda Singh Babahdur by Mughals and collaborating Sikhs.

The sad thing is, due to us abandoning our first great ruler who gave us the first ever Sikh state, we now have thieving Hindu propagandists who are now trying to claim this great Sikh as a Hindu just like what they did with Haqiqat Singh who the falsely call as Haqiqat Rai.

Edited by Jonny101

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First of all your logic dont hold any value because it was Mata ji who wanted to save Baba Baj Singh and Baba Kahan Singh the only reason being they were the 2 of 5 peyars sent by Guru Gobind Singh. Mata ji was in delhi when this execution took place. She couldnt save everyone yet she tried to save these 2 singhs and offered money to Farakhshir. By the time she could reach some sort of agreement with the Mughal ruler Baj Singh was already executed. She paid 12000 rs at that time for Baba Kahan Singh life.

Do you want me to apply the same logic over here as well ? Logic should be based on facts not Imagination.

You have still not answered my question why did baba Deep Singh left banda bahadur ?

Why did when Baba Deep Singh heard about beadbi of Harimander Sahib traveled around 180 Km with handful of sikhs but didnt went to help Banda Bahadur when he was just around 70 Km away and Baba ji had around 5000 singhs with him stationed at Amritsar Sahib.

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This is what Kahn Singh Nabha Wrote in Mahankosh. Keep in mind he same Person who wrote "Hum Hindu Nahi"

ਪਰਭੁਤਾ ਵਧ ਜਾਨ ਪਰ ਬੰਦਾ ਬਹਾਦੁਰ ਨੂੰ ਕੁਝ ਗਰਬ ਹੋਇਆ, ਆਪਣੀ ਗੁਰੂਤਾ ਕੀ ਅਭਿਲਾਖਾ ਜਾਗ ਗਈ | ਜਿਸ ਪਰ ਉਸ ਕੇ ਕਈ ਨਿਯਮ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵਿਰੁਧ ਪਰਚਾਰ ਕਰਨੇ ਚਾਹੇ ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਪੰਥ ਦਾ ਵਿਰੋਧ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਦੇ ਦੋ ਦਲ ਬਣ ਗਝ.....

This means After attaining popularity, Banda turned Egoistic and wished to become Guru. Under this Egotism, he preached his own Code of Conduct against Gurmat(i). Due to which Panth split into two parts. One Tat Khalsa(With Gur Gobind Singh) and other Bandai Khalsa (Khalsa of Banda Bahadur).

All early Sikh historical resources including Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Giani Gian Singh, Historian Karam Singh, Giani Kartar Singh, Nihang Dharam Singh etc. also mentioned these facts.

Copied from Wikipedia.

Edited by jassa

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First of all your logic dont hold any value because it was Mata ji who wanted to save Baba Baj Singh and Baba Kahan Singh the only reason being they were the 2 of 5 peyars sent by Guru Gobind Singh. Mata ji was in delhi when this execution took place. She couldnt save everyone yet she tried to save these 2 singhs and offered money to Farakhshir. By the time she could reach some sort of agreement with the Mughal ruler Baj Singh was already executed. She paid 12000 rs at that time for Baba Kahan Singh life.

Do you want me to apply the same logic over here as well ? Logic should be based on facts not Imagination.

You have still not answered my question why did baba Deep Singh left banda bahadur ?

Why did when Baba Deep Singh heard about beadbi of Harimander Sahib traveled around 180 Km with handful of sikhs but didnt went to help Banda Bahadur when he was just around 70 Km away and Baba ji had around 5000 singhs with him stationed at Amritsar Sahib.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what Kahn Singh Nabha Wrote in Mahankosh. Keep in mind he same Person who wrote "Hum Hindu Nahi"

ਪਰਭੁਤਾ ਵਧ ਜਾਨ ਪਰ ਬੰਦਾ ਬਹਾਦੁਰ ਨੂੰ ਕੁਝ ਗਰਬ ਹੋਇਆ, ਆਪਣੀ ਗੁਰੂਤਾ ਕੀ ਅਭਿਲਾਖਾ ਜਾਗ ਗਈ | ਜਿਸ ਪਰ ਉਸ ਕੇ ਕਈ ਨਿਯਮ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵਿਰੁਧ ਪਰਚਾਰ ਕਰਨੇ ਚਾਹੇ ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਪੰਥ ਦਾ ਵਿਰੋਧ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਦੇ ਦੋ ਦਲ ਬਣ ਗਝ.....

This means After attaining popularity, Banda turned Egoistic and wished to become Guru. Under this Egotism, he preached his own Code of Conduct against Gurmat(i). Due to which Panth split into two parts. One Tat Khalsa(With Gur Gobind Singh) and other Bandai Khalsa (Khalsa of Banda Bahadur).

All early Sikh historical resources including Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Giani Gian Singh, Historian Karam Singh, Giani Kartar Singh, Nihang Dharam Singh etc. also mentioned these facts.

Copied from Wikipedia.

Baaz Singh and Kahn Singh were both in Baba Banda Singh Bahadur jee's camp. They refused to follow binod singh's treacherous way of collaborating with the Mughals in return for some jagir. Binod Singh was part of the Panj Pyaras yet out of Buzdilli he fled which proved he acted alone without the council of the other pyaras. Kahn Singh and Baaz Singh remained with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. Both of these captured Singhs were ready to become Shaheed in Delhi but Kahn Singh was saved by Binod Singh who bribed his Mughal allies who had earlier bestowed a Jagir to him for betraying Baba ji. Does that befit the moral character of a Singh? While Baaz Singh died a heroic Shaheedi along with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur.

This is just like those traitorous Akalis who said they were with Sant Jarnail Singh jee but when the attack on Sri Darbar Sahib happened they all betrayed Sant ji and stood by the enemy of the Sikhs i.e. Indira Gandhi.

All these stories involving Mata ji, red clothing, claiming to be Guru, being killed because he married and had kids are propaganda spread by the ones who fled Gurdas Nangal and justified their treachery by these lies. The authors who have written negatively about Baba ji are not even contemporary sources. They were written generations after the said events. Bhangoo wrote his work during the time of M Ranjit Singh which is at least a 100 years after. Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha wrote his works based on Bhangoo at a time when much academic research was not done on Baba Banda Singh Bahadur as it was done when an academic like Dr Ganda Singh wrote his book on the life of Baba ji.

As for Baba Deep Singh jee, he was not in Gurdas Nangal so no point in trying to bring him in this discussion in order to justify the treachery of binod singh.

Edited by Jonny101

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You have still not answered my question why did baba Deep Singh left banda bahadur ?

Why did when Baba Deep Singh heard about beadbi of Harimander Sahib traveled around 180 Km with handful of sikhs but didnt went to help Banda Bahadur when he was just around 70 Km away and Baba ji had around 5000 singhs with him stationed at Amritsar Sahib.

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You have still not answered my question why did baba Deep Singh left banda bahadur ?

Why did when Baba Deep Singh heard about beadbi of Harimander Sahib traveled around 180 Km with handful of sikhs but didnt went to help Banda Bahadur when he was just around 70 Km away and Baba ji had around 5000 singhs with him stationed at Amritsar Sahib.

When did he "leave" him? This is the first I have heard this. Can you give a date for when this occured?

When the Mughal emperor came to Punjab with the full might of the Mughal army he scattered the Sikh warriors all over Punjab. Gurdas Nangal was surrounded by Mughals. It was impossible for Sikhs to go into the Fort. This is called siege warfare where a Fort is completely sealed from the outside world.

You are clutching at straws in order to defend a collaborator of the Mughals. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur died the most glorious Shaheedi as a faithful GurSikh. Among the Gupt Shaheed Fauj he is highly ranked. This is confirmed that even Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale had Darshan of Shaheed Baba Banda Bahadur who was with other Shaheed Singhs that also included Shaheed Baba Deep Singh ji.

Edited by Jonny101

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Baba Deep singh faught with Banda Bahadur in battle of Sirhand and Sadhaura before shifting to Amritsar with Baba Binod Singh. Google can help

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Baba Deep singh faught with Banda Bahadur in battle of Sirhand and Sadhaura before shifting to Amritsar with Baba Binod Singh. Google can help

Google what? Tell me, what are the historic sources saying Baba Deep Singh jee abandoned Baba Banda Singh Bahadur? If you want to believe google that says that Baba Deep Singh jee was close to a collaborator of the Mughals who got Jagir for abandoning Singhs and then saves his own son then go ahead. I will believe Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale over you and Google because Sant jee was the head of Baba Deep Singh jis Taksal and have had received divine Darshan of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur along with Baba Deep Singh ji together.

Edited by Jonny101

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Ok provide me a written (book) or recorded authentic taksali source (not some random website) which says Baba Gurbachan singh got darshans of Banda Bahadur and I will not debate on this topic again.

Edited by jassa

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Ok provide me a written (book) or recorded authentic taksali source (not some random website) which says Baba Gurbachan singh got darshans of Banda Bahadur and I will not debate on this topic again.

go to Gurmat Veechar. Under Katha of Sant Hari Singh Randhawawale listen to track number 17 about Khalsa raaj called Raj Karega Khalsa

Forward to 46 minutes onward to listen.

Edited by Jonny101

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