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Guest jagsaw singh

Some Home Truths

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Guest Jacfsing2
13 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Your behaviour shows me all I need to know about your childish and unsikhlike behaviour. We have done nothing to insult SGGSJ show me where! I dare you! Neither the panth, and as far as Taksalis are concerned all I said was there are several lineages claiming the same. Aside from that my wife said they limit women from seva. Which they do so how is that an insult when they openly admit it? And we uphold the Sikh Rehet Maryada. If you are looking for someone who insults it you better look at those who say it was forced on them and put it down like that Chatanga who insulted me. 

You are so close minded it's not even worth trying to have a sane discussion. 

The education institution created by Vaheguru himself was clearly insulted by none other than Pro-Female Punj Pyare fanatics. Insulting the institution Vaheguru made himself is the same Beadbi to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as well. Only in Punj Pyare is such a gender-based Seva required, also that Punj Pyare member from that Kashmir Amrit Sanchar also gave false hopes in promoting Pakhand when he said he would want to see females in Punj Pyare now your wife somehow thinks she would have that opportunity. Did any Jathedar of SGPC get Shaheed? Badal and Gurbachana would be friends with each other, SGPC Maryada hasn't even been Amended to include the 7 banis of Nitnem. (If your Amrit Sanchar was still according to SGPC Maryada it's still true, so nobody is insulting that, but once any of the Punj Pyare are woman, you should really question the Gurdwara committee.) As long as 5 pyare are men and provide Nitnem, Khanda Amrit and Sarbloh Batta it's official.

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15 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 

If you had any imagination you would know in what/which context the word "underclass behaviour' was used. It was used as in 'trash' behaviour! It has nothing to do with your wealth or status here.  The Sikh Rehat Maryada addresses key issues such as the definition of a Sikh, personal and communal obligations such as meditation and volunteer service, rules for gurdwara services to include appropriate music and festivals, and the conduct of assorted Sikh ceremonies. You might both be King and queen of Booffa, for all I care!  You are NOT ABOVE the SGGS JI, ITS TAKSAALS, REHAT MARIYAADA OR ANYTHING that falls within the teachings of the Sikh Gurus and IS CLASSED AS SIKHI. The Sikh women are perfectly content with Sikhi. What a shame you have no imagination whatsoever!  Pindoo lot!

Edited by sikhojaago
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2 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

You know nothing about her and how much she is respected. Someone should shut you up and put you in your place for disrespecting someone you know nothing about. Underclass behaviour? For pointing out what Sikh rehet Maryada says? You have no idea what underclass means.

Respected by whom? No one seems to be doing so here! Besides no one will respect a person or persons who insults or insult the Sikh Scripture or the Sikh  institutions! Whether they be white, black or brown! You both come across as very hateful, insecure and immature people. What are your reasons to be so? I notice they have finally managed to shut the blasphemous ones up. Good riddance to ....... 

Edited by CHaamCHrick

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3 hours ago, chatanga said:

Dont move this creature onto Dasam Granth!!

She has absolutely no aware of Dasam Granth. She is the same poster who started the topic on Sri Charitropakhyan about a month ago, showing her ignoracne on it.

 

ਬਲਬੀਰ ਸਿਆ, ਤੁਸੀ ਕਿਹੜੇ   ਮਗਰ ਲਗੇ ਹੋਏ ਹੈ? ਗ੍ਰੀਨ ਕਾਰਡ ਲੇਈ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਕੁਛ? 

Oh!!! Now we understand, the man's sold his soul for the Green Card, lol!

 

Edited by CHaamCHrick

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Guest Jacfsing2
2 minutes ago, CHaamCHrick said:

Oh!!! Now we understand, the man's sold his soul for the Green Card, lol!

I genuinely thought she had some Lesbian Anand Karaj since "she" was talking about a wife, especially with everyone she was talking about.

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PLEASE ENOUGH !!!!

Admin close the topic ...bahut hogeha ...you guys are going against your better selves on both sides of this discussion. No sikh male or female should be this nasty to others ...it is better to stop talking altogether and spend time with Guru ji instead

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Just now, jkvlondon said:

PLEASE ENOUGH !!!!

Admin close the topic ...bahut hogeha ...you guys are going against your better selves on both sides of this discussion. No sikh male or female should be this nasty to others ...it is better to stop talking altogether and spend time with Guru ji instead

 

One reason why this forum is so dead is because of this obsession with closing topics.

What's wrong with a vigorous discussion?  If you don't like a particular discussion, you don't have to be in that thread.

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1 minute ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

One reason why this forum is so dead is because of this obsession with closing topics.

What's wrong with a vigorous discussion?  If you don't like a particular discussion, you don't have to be in that thread.

There's talking and there is slandering  this is tipping heavily in favour of the second .  If it was a real discussion that would be evident for anyone to see. Nothing positive is being achieved .

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Guest london jwaan
3 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

There's talking and there is slandering  this is tipping heavily in favour of the second .  If it was a real discussion that would be evident for anyone to see. Nothing positive is being achieved .

OMG are you serious????????????

JKV - you are the one that slandered the disabled people who took wolverhampton gurdwara to court for discrimnating. Sangat - please check "Discrimination in the gurdwara" for this poster's behvkoofi.......

In fact, it wasnt slander, it was downright libellous..........

Yet again, your hypocrisy is unbelievable...........

Utter disgrace.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, whaeguru ji ki fateh

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
7 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

PLEASE ENOUGH !!!!

Admin close the topic ...bahut hogeha ...you guys are going against your better selves on both sides of this discussion. No sikh male or female should be this nasty to others ...it is better to stop talking altogether and spend time with Guru ji instead

No !!!   Close ALL of YOUR topics.  This is my one and only thread and you come along and ask that it closes simply because discourse and reasoning scares you even though discourse and reasoning is a fundamental part of every other faith out there and a fundamental pre-requisite of human development.  I'm not even part of this side conversation going on but like thousands of others I'm glad for the opportunity to listen to differing points of view.  The way that so many here scream like a baby "close the topic NOW " every time a discussion takes place makes me extremely worried about the kind of people that will be steering Sikhi in the future.  I don't know if you guys know this but even the radical Muslims in this country, just like the Christians and Rastafarians etc, absolutely love having discussions where different viewpoints and interpretations are put across or, as they are known 'reasoning sessions'. They love them because it exercises and developments the mind.......improves critical thinking capabilities and empowers individuals. It is absolutely scandalous that anyone should be asking for a topic to be closed down simply because one individual on it feels incredibly strongly that Gurbani espouses gender equality. To crucify someone for that, whilst there are multitudes of our brethren and sistren out there stealing, drug-taking, killing and destroying makes me very fearful for our future.

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4 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

One reason why this forum is so dead is because of this obsession with closing topics.

What's wrong with a vigorous discussion?  If you don't like a particular discussion, you don't have to be in that thread.

I am glad you have mentioned this. How can any one in their wildest dreams or imagination think that they can change the the Amrit Sanchar ceremony as laid down by the Tenth Guru in 1699? Do they think that they are above or superior to Him because they are white/Caucasians converted to Sikhi? Who gives them this idea? Where do they get this idea from?

Amrit Sanchar ceremony is the most  sacrosanct ceremony for a Sikh.  And a true Sikh looks forward to going through with this ceremony in its most original form. You change this, you change everything. 

Edited by sikhojaago
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12 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

I am glad you have mentioned this. How can any one in their wildest dreams or imagination think that they can change the the Amrit Sanchar ceremony as laid down by the Tenth Guru in 1699? Do they think that they are above or superior to Him because they are white/Caucasians converted to Sikhi? Who gives them this idea? Where do they get this idea from? Amrit Sanchar ceremony is the most  sacrosanct ceremony for a Sikh.  And a true Sikh looks forward to going through with this ceremony in its most original form. You change this, you change everything. 

I never thought I'd ever use this term but in this particular situation it seems apt: it's white privilege. Hate to say it, but there's an element of that at play. 

Whether it's warranted or not isn't quite clear to me. Neither side seems to be doing themselves justice. The naturalised Punjabis seem quite jumpy and dictatorial, whilst the converts and their supporters refuse to concede the middle ground.

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Guest punjab

That's why the vazooragh loke use to say don't let the malesh come near your dharam they will malign and corrupt it with their dirty minds.

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The Sikh Code of Conduct

The Sikh Code of Conduct is known as the Sikh Rehat Maryada. It is based upon the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib and Sikh traditions and conventions. These rules are meant for carrying out religious ceremonies and enforcing the discipline of the faith in a uniform manner throughout the world.

No individual or organisation, whosoever important as it may be, has a right to either amend these rules or to frame new ones. This power rests with the Panth (the whole community) acting through their Panj Pyare (five beloved ones). Any rule which overrides the basic teachings of the Faith is ignored.

All intoxicants such as alcohol and tobacco, trimming hair (keshas), and eating meat are forbidden. Adultery and pre-marital relations are considered a sin. A Sikh should regard another man’s wife as his sister or mother and another man’s daughter as his own daughter. The same rule is applicable to women as well.

  http://www.sikhism101.com/the-sikh-code-of-conduct/    

 

Edited by sikhojaago

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Guest Jacfsing2
8 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

I am sorry to offend you but no, it is not their privilege at all. It is OUR privilege to love and respect our Sikhi till death do us part. It is OUR PRIVILIGE, as born Sikhs to protect it with our lives. Yes, it is MY PRIVILGE to preserve Sikhi from these outsiders. As far as I am concerned they are outsiders, and have no love or loyalty towards their adopted religion. 

Please note: No one is superior to my Gurus, Their Banies and Their Teachings!  

I am the privileged one to have been born as a Sikh to Sikh parents with Sikh siblings and Sikh relatives, not them. 

So you don't believe people should be allowed to convert? Also where was it mentioned that they were white?

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    • Ok, so it’s gone from rotian to daal/sabji to paneer to saag to smoothies to chywanprash to sukha to trolls to goreh to compromise. I wonder if it will go back to thorka again 🙃😏
    • Here is a pauri by Guru Nanak Dev ji which addresses some of these issues: ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੩੭    ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਆਪੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ The Immaculate Lord Himself, by Himself, created Himself. ਆਪੇ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇਓਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਸਬਾਇਆ ॥ He Himself created the whole drama of all the world's play. ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਆਪਿ ਸਿਰਜਿਅਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਇਆ ॥ He Himself formed the three gunas, the three qualities; He increased the attachment to Maya. ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਉਬਰੇ ਜਿਨ ਭਾਣਾ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ By Guru's Grace, they are saved - those who love the Will of God. ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਸਭ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ O Nanak, the True Lord is pervading everywhere; all are contained within the True Lord. ||1||   The shabad states that God created the creation and maya (illusion). The Guru grants Grace and saves those who love God's will. Those who love God's Will will be saved. Meanwhile, the likes of your "friend" will remain entangled in fruitless philosophical arguments. Note: I may quibble with the translation of the first line. Some scholars think that when Gurbani talks of God "creating Himself", it's referring to establishing himself in the Universe.
    • If your "friend" wants to know exactly "how" God created the creation, I would say that that's a totally worthless question. Why does he need to know "how" God created the world and infused with Maya (3 qualities and 5 vices)? Is he planning to create a universe anytime soon? About such philosophical exercises, Guru ji says: ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ 
      Hundreds of thousands of clever thoughts, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end. 
    • Your Christian "friend"''s multiple questions basically just boil down to this one question. The answer is simply that God desired to create the world (Maya) as his divine play, called "khel". Principal Sahib Singh, his his Darpan, quoted many lines from Gurbani that reference "khel": ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ ਖੇਲੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੰ੍ਰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿਚ ਕਈ ਵਾਰੀ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ; ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਵਜੋਂ 

      ਸੁਪਨੰਤਰੁ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਸਭੁ ਸਭੁ ਬਾਜੀ ਖੇਲੁ ਖਿਲਾਵੈਗੇ ॥ ਲਾਹਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਲੈ ਚਾਲਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪੈਧਾ 
      ਜਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੫॥੫॥ ਕਾਨੜਾ ਮ: ੪ ਅਸਟਪਦੀ 

      ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਰੁ ਹੈ ਊਤਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਇਕੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਵਰਤੈ ਸਭੁ 
      ਜਗਤੁ ਕੀਆ ਵਣਜਾਰਾ ॥੪॥ ਕਾਨੜੇ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ 

      ਜੈਸੇ ਹਰਹਟ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਟਿੰਡ ਲਗਤ ਹੈ ॥ ਇਕ ਸਖਨੀ ਹੋਰ ਫੇਰ ਭਰੀਅਤ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੀ ਇਹ ਖੇਲੁ 
      ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਜਿਉ ਉਸ ਕੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥੨॥੮॥ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ਮ: ੧ 

      ਆਪੇ ਭਾਂਤ ਬਣਾਏ ਬਹੁਰੰਗੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਏ ਸਰਬ 
      ਜੀਆ ਨੋ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਦੀਆ ॥੧॥੬॥ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ਮ: ੩ 

      ਪੀਤ ਬਸਨ ਕੁੰਦ-ਦਸਨ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਸਹਿਤ ਕੰਠ ਮਾਲ ਮੁਕਟੁ ਸੀਸਿ ਮੋਰ ਪੰਖ ਚਾਰਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਬੇਵਜੀਰ ਬਡੇ ਧੀਰ 
      ਧਰਮ ਅੰਗ ਅਲਖ ਅਗਮ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ਆਪਣੈ ਉਛਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥੮॥ ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਚੌਥੇ ਕੇ, 
      ਗਯੰਦ 

      ਕੀਆ ਖੇਲੁ ਬਡਮੇਲੁ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥ ਵਾਹਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਭ ਰਚਨਾ ॥ ਤੂ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਗਗਨਿ ਪਯਾਲਿ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਾ 
      ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਤੇ ਮੀਠੇ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬਚਨਾ ॥੩॥੧੩॥੪੨॥ ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਚੌਥੇ ਕੇ, ਗਯੰਦ 

      ਸੋ, 
      ਖੇਲੁ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਹੈ ਜਗਤ-ਰੂਪ ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ  In the end, he defines "khel" as the world drama. Note: In the pre-creation state, there was no sin, nor charity. From Sukhmani Sahib: ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥ When this world had not yet appeared in any form, ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ ਹੋਤਾ ॥ Who then committed sins and performed good deeds? ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥ When the Lord Himself was in Profound Samaadhi, ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥ Then against whom were hate and jealousy directed?   There are many lines that could be quoted, but this sums things up nicely (21st astpadi of Sukhmani): ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ Shalok: ਸਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਆਪਿ ॥ He possesses all qualities; He transcends all qualities; He is the Formless Lord. He Himself is in Primal Samaadhi. ਆਪਨ ਕੀਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਜਾਪਿ ॥੧॥ Through His Creation, O Nanak, He meditates on Himself. ||1||   And so, the command for us, too, is to meditate on God. And that's how your "friend's" questions will be answered, if he's sincere.
    • I wound up in your irc before finding this place. It was just empty at the time. 
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