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Some Home Truths

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Woman have the god given right to give human birth (miri) so God gave man the right to give Spiritual Birth (Piri). This way both sexes have the right and the choice to "give birth" so to speak and both are incomplete without the other. You can't become Amritdhari unless you are born and vice versa. This isn't sexism, its equality. 

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8 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Respectfully, I follow Gurbani which is our living Guru and not any human 'sant' who can have their own opinion. He would have been brought up and instructed in DDT philosophy which as pointed out keeps women from most seva not just Panj Pyaras. And the reasoning has to do with impurity and menstruation. The current DDT can't make any more claim to be 'THE' original started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself than any other and anyway aren't we supposed to be a panth and not split into jathas etc? The panthic Rehet Maryada states there is no difference with seva between male and female which are equals. Gurbani our only living guru says every human are to be treated equally. That is all we should go by. Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave the panth ability to make decisions and hence we have Sikh Rehet Maryada. The panth IS the word of the Guru, not just one jatha. 

The Panth Rehit Maryada was created in the 1930s, it took over 20 years (even longer than that maybe) to get it sorted and even then people bickered and walked out on it. The Rehit Maryada is extremely controversial and using it as a standard is alot like using Prithi Chand as an example of a model Gursikh.  

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6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

... show me where anywhere in Gurbani that it says women should have less rights in Sikhi.

It doesn't say it anywhere. Now you show us in Gurbani where it says to take "Khande di pahul".

 

8 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Respectfully, I follow Gurbani which is our living Guru and not any human 'sant' who can have their own opinion. He would have been brought up and instructed in DDT philosophy which as pointed out keeps women from most seva not just Panj Pyaras.

Taksal only at their own gurdwaras do their own sewa. They do not stop any women from doing sewa at any other gurdwaras so stop lying.

 

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

...  Remember I am married to a Punjabi Amritdhari Singh and I double check everything. He has yet to find any tuk in Gurbani to suggest that women should have less rights.

 

The same husband you looked on as ahorse on your wedding day. All you have to do is give him a nose-bag and a bucket of water and he will say what you want him to say.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

...  Besides that Sikh Rehet Maryada is EXPLICIT on the issue. It's a moot point as far as Akal Takht is concerned.

 

It was forced onto the Panth. Next time you go india, take your husband/horse and go to Sri Akal Takht Sahib and ask them to include women in their monthly sinchaars there.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

...  Sants from different jathas have disagreed with one another.

 

give one example.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

...

By the way his reasoning that 'no woman gave her head that day' doesn't make sense. No white man gave his head that day but you won't condemn all white male sikhs from ever being Panj payaras will you? No black man did either. How about Singh's with names different than the original five or castes different? They didn't give their head that day either so we should keep all of them from doing this seva as well? Ask yourself why only gender matters and has to be replicated as the original but no other aspect must be???? It's simply male bias and chauvinism. Nothing more. It's MALE ego and NOT our Guru who wants to limit women.

 

You have already had your answer to this.

Is this male bias and chauvinism:

 

 

ਜਿਉ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਘਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਅਤਿ ਲੋਚੈ ਭਗਤੀ ਭਾਇ
ਬਹੁ ਰਸ ਸਾਲਣੇ ਸਵਾਰਦੀ ਖਟ ਰਸ ਮੀਠੇ ਪਾਇ .
ਤਿਉ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਸਲਾਹਦੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ
 
੧੪੧੩

 

Now you will say "why isnt there a verse for men to serve their wives with the same devotion?"

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

.

I promise I will get my Punjabi husband to also read it.

 

He doesn't sound like someone who could read. neigh, whinny and trump yes.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

..

I am sure all of the other Kaurs on here would love to see solid evidence that we are to have lesser rights straight from our Guru... once and for all show us.

 

Speak for yourself. The other kaurs on this fourm have already tried to warn you from making an imbecile of yourself on another public forum. But you haven't listened. Stop trying to drag them into your stupidity and discussions.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

And once you do (if you can even find anything remotely suggesting that) I will post many many shabads which show the equality of ALL humans as equal carriers of the divine light. 

Humans?  Only humans?

Post them then.

I will post shabads which show that the divine light in carried in all vegetation, animal life, AND humans. Even stones. And more.

 

 

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7 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 

I promise I will get my Punjabi husband to also read it. 

I am sure all of the other Kaurs on here would love to see solid evidence that we are to have lesser rights straight from our Guru... once and for all show us. 

And once you do (if you can even find anything remotely suggesting that) I will post many many shabads which show the equality of ALL humans as equal carriers of the divine light. 

Instead of getting somebody else to read Gurbani for you, why don't you try learning it yourself, so you can read it and understand it yourself too. 

 

Talk for yourself, as a female I accept the way the Panj Pyare are. And that doesn't make me have sheep mentality before you say that too. It's just that I don't make a song and dance about being a woman. I'm all for women's rights and defending ourselves, but if I can accept it, why can't you penji? Why would you want to change something that's been the same from beginning of Sikhi just to please yourself and that you have no understanding of. And you can stop insulting Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji, he had so much kamaiyee and you think you're avasta is better than his? 

Manu tha lagda hatna nai tu drame karn, par hun boring hogeyi a. Change the topic because I'm reading this on other posts too, that's all you go on out, the Panj Pyare, and mixing it in other posts too. Hor koi gal nai aundi? 

And which Sants of different jathas are you even on about ? I've never seen or heard any Sants or Mahapursh argue or debate with other or belittle anybody, so what exactly are you talking about? 

Edited by simran345
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4 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Bhen Ji 

dont paint yourself lower because of your gender and don't listen to these guys. Sikh Rehet Maryada says you are every bit as capable as they are. They love nothing more than to make you believe you deserve less than they do. But why? You have ask why? Only Hindu believe women were born that way as a punishment and that they have to do service of men (husband) to advance through this and the other 6 lifetimes before being born male and having privilege. Our Gurus did not think this way. You are not born in a lower body as some punishment where you have to do service of men and live a less life. In Kashmir here most families are Amritdhari much higher rate than in Punjab. You won't see cut hairs here or clean shaven. And we don't practice discrimination. Women have been president of Gurdwara, Panj Pyaras and everything in between. We follow only Sikh Rehet Maryada even in historical Gurdwaras here. World didn't shatter when Kaurs were Panj Pyaras. The men didn't feel stepped on or had something taken away because their egos were not so large here. Even the males who regularly do seva as Panj Pyaras tell at every sinchar to the Kaur's present that they want to see some of them do that same seva someday and to never let anyone tell them they have limitations for being female.  By the way you may have guessed this is not Harkiran but her husband. I fully support equality of women. I have told her it's not worth arguing with close minded backward people. 

Be quiet, I'm not painting myself lower than men. But I'm not going to belittle brothers that don't do what you make out. It's not about close minded people, it's about respect. Since I've been reading Harkiran's 10 page lectures, the only thing I'm reading is women this, women that, eh voh. Big deal she's a woman, but she's belittling  people on here and trying to brainwash women into thinking that Sikh men are discriminating against women. 

I haven't heard of any disputes of Panj Pyare seva in our area or anywhere for that matter. This is the first time I'm hearing it and to me it sounds you're both exaggerating something that isn't a big issue as you're making out to be. Good luck to you both in your sewa though. 

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Harkiran,

can you stop labelling women who accept the roles of men and women to different as "regarding" themselves lower.

can you stop forcing your ideas of feminism, since real feminists believe equality is only achieved when women don't have to do the historical works of men to feel equal

can you stop imposing the so called panthic maryada on all of us

can you stop criticising DAMDAMI TAKSAL, started by pita ji

 

can you basically keep quiet.

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4 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

As long as you don't force the Taksal Maryada on us you can follow whatever one you wish. By the way damdami taksal of today is not direct lineage. Anyone can use a name even Taksalis have several lineages laying claims. By the way this is not Harkiran, and yes you are falling for the lies fed to you. It's basically lip service to say hey your equal but in this life you have to live a life of less privilege and rights,  but it doesn't mean your lesser. Lip service. 

You just perfectly described your own situation. Blindly following whatever your panthic maryada. You need to listen to some katha of suraj parkash, guru nanak parkash and Dasam Granth. 

 

(No one believes that we need another life. Our Mata didnt, we don't either)

bring her to a hospital and have her checked. She needs help.

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1 hour ago, HarkiranKaur said:

2. If you truly understood that the divine light is in everyone you'd know that a husband's duty is to serve his wife with the same devotion as she is one and the same as he

So you came up with this list to avoid answering my previous post. Why are you so scared asatkiran of that, that you need to try and move the post onto something else?

 

45 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

By the way you may have guessed this is not Harkiran but her husband.

You are either asatkiran lying, or her horse-partner who has adopted her way of thinking?

 

By the way?....by the way?...by the way? Only asatkiran writes this over and over, if it is really her horse-partner, then the fool has become a parrot of her.

 

I don't beleive it is though. She used to make up guest posts and aliases on Sikhawareness as well.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Khalistanisinghni said:

Harkiran,

can you stop labelling women who accept the roles of men and women to different as "regarding" themselves lower.

No she can't because in her twisted little mind, she thinks she is here to save womankind in Sikhi.

Soon she will start saying that maybe sikhi isn't for her and she may leave it.

 

29 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

I have read her posts and nothing she said was belittling anyone. Rather she was only defending women from being belittled.

Women can defend themselves here thank you very much! asatkiran is not the saviour she wants to be. read the posts by the other women.

 

 

34 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 Please respect that someone from a completely different culture and language it is not easy to learn an entirely new language especially when it's not romanized. It takes years you can't expect someone to know an entire new language in a short time.

 

If this is Balbir Singh,  then you are a bigger fool for accepting her lies. She claims to have researched Sikhi for over 20 years. yet can speak less words than a 2 year old panjabi child. And look at your Balbir Singh, defending her lies on here. ਥੋੜੀ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਸ਼ਰਮ ਹੋਣੀ ਚਾਹੀਦੀ ਹੈ ਬੰਦੇ ਨੂੰ .

 

 

24 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 By the way this is not Harkiran, and yes you are falling for the lies fed to you.

 

Another "by the way".

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8 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

You should follow your own advice and by the way do you know what dasam Granth says about you (female)? 

Dont move this creature onto Dasam Granth!!

She has absolutely no aware of Dasam Granth. She is the same poster who started the topic on Sri Charitropakhyan about a month ago, showing her ignoracne on it.

 

ਬਲਬੀਰ ਸਿਆ, ਤੁਸੀ ਕਿਹੜੇ   ਮਗਰ ਲਗੇ ਹੋਏ ਹੈ? ਗ੍ਰੀਨ ਕਾਰਡ ਲੇਈ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਕੁਛ? 

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   HarkiranKaur 

 

WILL YOU STOP INSULTING THE DASAM GRANTH SAHIB JI?

Edited by sikhojaago

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15 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

You know nothing about her and how much she is respected. Someone should shut you up and put you in your place for disrespecting someone you know nothing about. Underclass behaviour? For pointing out what Sikh rehet Maryada says? You have no idea what underclass means.

Your posts tell me all I need to know. Stop insulting the SGGS, The DASAM Granth,  the Sikh panth, taksaals, the Sikh mariyaada and the Sikh women all over the world!  

Why should I shut up?

I AM NOT THE ONE CRITICISING OR RAISING DOUBTS AS TO THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE  SIKH FAITH OR ITS HOLY SCRIPTURE OF THE DASAM GRANTH. I AM NOT THE ONE PROMOTING THE IDEA OF WOMEN SERVING AS THE FIVE BELOVEDS! YOU BOTH ARE. I AM AN AMRITDHARI SIKH not some illiterate rustic pindoo from Kashmir!  Don't you DARE insult the sanctity of the Amrit Sanchaar marayaada, or the SGGS OR THE DASAM GRANTH. If your wife is not happy with Sikhi as it stands she can get lost. I will not stand FOR ANY TOM, PLAIN JANE AND HARRY SHOWING DISRESPECT TO MY FAITH FOR WHICH MY GURUS HAVE MADE HUGE SACRIFICES. I OWE MY SIKHI TO THEM. And, you ought to be ashamed of yourself that I have to remind you of this and for allowing her to behave like this.

The Sikh Rehat Maryada addresses key issues such as the definition of a Sikh, personal and communal obligations such as meditation and volunteer service, rules for gurdwara services to include appropriate music and festivals, and the conduct of assorted Sikh ceremonies.[16]

 

STOP PRIVOKING PEOPLE OVER HERE. THERE ARE MANY ANRITDHARRY SIKHS USING THIS FORUM and  I AM ONE OF THEM.

Edited by sikhojaago

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No, she said why are women not allowed to do the sewa of the Five Beloveds!  Who does she think she is to QUESTION Sikhi, the Sikh  Gurus, the Sikh taksaals and the rights of the Sikh women? The SIKH GURUS HAVE TAKEN CARE OF EVERYTHING FOR US, FOR THOSE  BORN AS SIKHS.  WE DO NOT NEED ANYONE LIKE YOU BOTH TO INSULT SIKHI OR THE SIKH WOMEN. The Panth is also made up of women in case you have forgotten.

It is BETTER TO have a Sikh mind that is well disciplined than to have an untamed, totally dissipated, all over the place, running hither and thither, uncontrolled and shallow mind! Stop behaving like busy bodies, stop meddling with Sikh issues that are beyond your comprehension.

Edited by sikhojaago
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