Guest jagsaw singh

Some Home Truths

169 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Sikh Rehet Maryada 

Read Article XXIV para b.

That's Where.

Speak against this and its YOU who are disrespecting Sikh Rehet Maryada, not me or my husband. 

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I should also point you to this? Unless things have changed...

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We also hold SGGSJ as highest authority in our lives. HIGHEST! To say we disrespect Gurbani somehow is an affront.  We actually FOLLOW what it instructs us to do. By disregarding the MANY shabads that day this exact same thing it's YOU who are disrespecting Gurbani, not us.  

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Gurbani tells you to see every human equally. There is no class or caste (gender is treated as a social class) and that the almighty is in every one of us. knowing this how can you limit some and privilege others based only on things they had no control over? Further Gurbani says we all should be judged on our MERITS and not our physical attributes. 

Finally, show us anywhere that Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that women are not allowed? Maybe it's YOU who are changing how he intended things to be by overlaying your own chauvinistic bias? Even his 52 hukams written AFTER 1699 and before he left this physical world, he never included anything to suggest that Amrit sanchars were a gender based duty.  Additionally, prior to 1699 women masands were given same Guru given authority to initiate Sikhs by charan Amrit in absence of the Guru. This is easily verified. There is no reason to believe all of a sudden Guru Gobind Singh Ji decided to hold a grudge against women that one day and for all time giving men perpetual privilege over women's spiritual advancement in this world, effectively making women entirely DEPENDENT on the male gender to advance spiritually?? What does that say about women's spiritual state? 

Its not us who are disrespecting anything it's you. We are simply following Rehet Maryada and living our lives in accordance with Gurbani. 

And one last thing if you follow taksal Maryada then this: pay particular attention to the note 22 it refers to. This is straight from vidhya.com: eliminated is a strong word! Not the gender but the DIFFERNCES meaning privileges or statuses that used to exist because of them. 

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Also I have never said anything so nasty as some of you have. Suggesting my husband only married me for a green card? Really you looking to try to hurt people? Is that really Sikh like? Shame on you all! Nasty vulgar people!!! 

I'm sympathize with you 

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7 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

How can you follow gurbani when you can't read Gurbani in gurmukhi and which means you can't understand Gurbani.

 

 

These are all lies.  Sant ji in a video gives a reason to why women are not in punj pyare.  The reason has nothing to do with women being pure or impure.  You stated in a later post, your husband checks to see what is said in punjabi because you can't understand punjabi.  Since you lied about what sant ji said, this mean your husband the punjabi interpreter also cant understand punjabi.  My initial assessment of you being worse than a blind Hindu is spot on.

 

Get off your high horse.. Even if you can read gursikhi doesn't mean you understand.. Bani is set to music written in a poetic meter there is not even one tuk shabd that can be defined.. Guru Sahib did this by design to stop all you absolutists 

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53 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

I'd How can you follow gurbani when you can't read Gurbani in gurmukhi and which means you can't understand Gurbani.

 

 

These are all lies.  Sant ji in a video gives a reason to why women are not in punj pyare.  The reason has nothing to do with women being pure or impure.  You stated in a later post, your husband checks to see what is said in punjabi because you can't understand punjabi.  Since you lied about what sant ji said, this mean your husband the punjabi interpreter also cant understand punjabi.  My initial assessment of you being worse than a blind Hindu is spot on.

 

I never said Jarnail Singh said anything about impurity. I said DDT teaches that (see the bits about women and seva during menstruation and especially the huge hari singh randhawa controversy in Canada). I never said he said that...Rather I said that he would have been brought up in that philosophy. Don't put words in my mouth!!!!

second my husband does speak Punjabi and we do nitnem etc together. He tells me the English meanings. 

I already refuted Jarnail singhs reasoning... to say that women for all time should be punished for what a few that day did or did not do is not a good reason. It was not a competition of genders. Secondly the atma is genderless and we don't choose which gender we are born. Discriminating because of gender is no different than discriminating because of caste. People should be judged on their actions and not their genitals (nor on the actions or inactions of others who happened to have the same genitals) Also if women are to be barred because 'none gave their head' that day then anyone from castes who did not give their heads should also be barred, also what about white men, black men? No white or black men gave heir heads that day. Men with different names? Different heights? From different places?? Nobody has ever answered why is it only gender which matters??? Especially when the atma is genderless!

You are just another nasty name calling person with an agenda. You can't do anything but name call and parrot one video. The real reason is your own chauvinism. 

According to SRM women ARE in Panj Pyaras!!!!! You actually think that because you have the same gentials it makes you better and more superior to do that seva? YOU were not there to give your head either that day. But just because you happened to be born with the same genitals it makes you good to go?? It's about avastha and the light within NOT the genitals!!!! But Jarnail Singh could only speak for damdami taksal anyway. And even he upheld the SRM while at Harmandir Sahib. SRM says straight out that women as well as men can do that seva (and any other). You might not agree with it but that is just your own opinion. Instead of parroting one video where he gives HIS opinion why not try to resolve it with Gurbani yourself?? Would our Guru hold grudges against anyone with a certain genitals or would he rather judge someone on their own actions? 

I can easily understand what shabads are saying when my husband tells me the English translation. The context are easily seen. 

 

Edited by HarkiranKaur

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18 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

You know nothing about her and how much she is respected. Someone should shut you up and put you in your place for disrespecting someone you know nothing about. Underclass behaviour? For pointing out what Sikh rehet Maryada says? You have no idea what underclass means.

 

I know ALL about asatkiran. I have been witness to her crass and erratic behavour for time. She was put in her place on Sikhawareness forum and no dount the time has come for her to be put in her place here. It was long overdue.

 

And if you are wondering why she is called asatkiran, it's because she is truly a ray of falsehood.  Even then she didn't know what the word "asatkiran" meant. Someone else had to point it out to her. So much for 20+ years of studying sikhi as she likes to claim.

 

Asatkiran created a topic and tried to insult Sri Charitropakhyan, but I knew it was her straightaway, and then when I called her out and told everyone here her real identity, lo and behold, who pops up to defend herself? Claiming that the OP "found" her on another forum and informed her about this topic? What rot. What nonsense. That is truly underclass behaviour.

 

 

17 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 We have done nothing to insult SGGSJ show me where! I dare you! 

Aside from that my wife said they limit women from seva.

 

This again is a trait of asatkiran. Sentences with exclamation marks continously. Then she tries to pretend it's her horse of a husband. She tried the same on Sikhawareness and here as well.

 

16 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I genuinely thought she had some Lesbian Anand Karaj since "she" was talking about a wife, especially with everyone she was talking about.

Don't be fooled by it. It's not her husband.

 

10 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Sikh Rehet Maryada 

Read Article XXIV para b.

That's Where.

Speak against this and its YOU who are disrespecting Sikh Rehet Maryada, not me or my husband.

 

This is A Sikh rehet maryada. It is only a recent invention that was forced on the panth.

 

9 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

People should be judged on their actions and not their genitals (nor on the actions or inactions of others who happened to have the same genitals)

 

Yes thy should. But for the purposes of panj pyareu sewa, only males woith complete bodies are allowed to it. That means no women, no transgenders, no eunuchs as well as people who have any limbs or digits missing.

 

If your precious fools who gave you amrit said that women should also be allowed to do this sewa, then you should have struck a blow for ALL people of all genders and no-genders alike, by stating that eunuchs should also be allowed to do it.

Seeing as you are in Kashmir, go ot the place where you took amrit and ask them to include eunuchs and people of no genders in the panj. let's see where that gets you. take your horse husband as well, he sounds like he needs a thappar.

And film it, so we can see. Come on ! I dare you! Balbir Singh you as well! Go and try it!

 

9 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 Would our Guru hold grudges against anyone with a certain genitals or would he rather judge someone on their own actions?

 

That will be the next step of your journey. let us know how it works out.

 

 

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miss harkiran ji.

You better stop chasing the dogtail with your same ol song and stop getting the kacheras in a twist.

It's a shame cuz looking at your activities on the forums, your sikhi has improved very little over the 3-4 years. Are you gonna just keep doing the same cuz you certainly aint helping yourself or raisng your consciousness. You've been welcomed into sikhi and instead of having humility, dignity and respect, you've just been enforcing your feminist views which btw are nothing to do with equality.

You from Canada, so maybe you should read and see some Jordan Peterson lectures/videos.. That professor's views are more in line with sikhi, for someone who doesn't speak about the faith.. You may learn the difference between what inequality is and how feminism is not the solution and can only make matters worse. 

seriously, >>> you've got to try and swallow some of the points that have been addressed to you over the years. ..Swallow them, meditate on them and let them sprout with knowledge. Swallow them, don't spit.

 

Edited by JUSTAJATT

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21 minutes ago, chatanga said:

 

I know ALL about asatkiran. I have been witness to her crass and erratic behavour for time. She was put in her place on Sikhawareness forum and no dount the time has come for her to be put in her place here. It was long overdue.

 

And if you are wondering why she is called asatkiran, it's because she is truly a ray of falsehood.  Even then she didn't know what the word "asatkiran" meant. Someone else had to point it out to her. So much for 20+ years of studying sikhi as she likes to claim.

 

Asatkiran created a topic and tried to insult Sri Charitropakhyan, but I knew it was her straightaway, and then when I called her out and told everyone here her real identity, lo and behold, who pops up to defend herself? Claiming that the OP "found" her on another forum and informed her about this topic? What rot. What nonsense. That is truly underclass behaviour.

 

 

 

This again is a trait of asatkiran. Sentences with exclamation marks continously. Then she tries to pretend it's her horse of a husband. She tried the same on Sikhawareness and here as well.

 

Don't be fooled by it. It's not her husband.

 

 

This is A Sikh rehet maryada. It is only a recent invention that was forced on the panth.

 

 

Yes thy should. But for the purposes of panj pyareu sewa, only males woith complete bodies are allowed to it. That means no women, no transgenders, no eunuchs as well as people who have any limbs or digits missing.

 

If your precious fools who gave you amrit said that women should also be allowed to do this sewa, then you should have struck a blow for ALL people of all genders and no-genders alike, by stating that eunuchs should also be allowed to do it.

Seeing as you are in Kashmir, go ot the place where you took amrit and ask them to include eunuchs and people of no genders in the panj. let's see where that gets you. take your horse husband as well, he sounds like he needs a thappar.

And film it, so we can see. Come on ! I dare you! Balbir Singh you as well! Go and try it!

 

 

That will be the next step of your journey. let us know how it works out.

 

 

They didn't say women 'should be' rather they said women ARE allowed. And to not let anyone tell us otherwise. These were five Singh's too! Yes there were Amrit sanchars here with Kaur's as Panj Pyaras. Don't worry we will get you photo but does it matter? You'll just say who cares it was following SRM anyway and then dismiss it. 

By the way your mouth could use some soap. Your mother should have taught you better manners than to resort to name calling years ago. Notice I still have not called you any names? And I will never stoop to your low level either. 

And bye you won't get any fans for Charitropakhyan in this part of India. 

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7 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

By the way your mouth could use some soap. Your mother should have taught you better manners than to resort to name calling years ago. Notice I still have not called you any names? And I will never stoop to your low level either. 

And bye you won't get any fans for Charitropakhyan in this part of India. 

Oh>>> no names. you say you don't call names and have never called any >>>but throwing sticks and stones is less than names then?

(just realised maybe canucks don't do the sticks and stones may break my bones..... rhyming)

Edited by JUSTAJATT

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5 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Yes there were Amrit sanchars here with Kaur's as Panj Pyaras. Don't worry we will get you photo but does it matter?

 

Thats not what i asked you for and you know it.  I'll repeat again:

32 minutes ago, chatanga said:

Seeing as you are in Kashmir, go ot the place where you took amrit and ask them to include eunuchs and people of no genders in the panj. let's see where that gets you. take your horse husband as well, he sounds like he needs a thappar.

And film it, so we can see. Come on ! I dare you! Balbir Singh you as well! Go and try it!

That will be the next step of your journey. let us know how it works out.

 

Plain and simple.

 

5 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

By the way your mouth could use some soap. Your mother should have taught you better manners than to resort to name calling years ago. Notice I still have not called you any names? And I will never stoop to your low level either. 

And bye you won't get any fans for Charitropakhyan in this part of India. 

 

Your mother should have taught you not to be so devious. Its your deviousness that you need to work on.

 

5 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

And bye you won't get any fans for Charitropakhyan in this part of India. 

 

Yes because you speak for all of them like you try and speak for all Sikh women.

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22 hours ago, chatanga said:

It doesn't say it anywhere. Now you show us in Gurbani where it says to take "Khande di pahul".

 

Taksal only at their own gurdwaras do their own sewa. They do not stop any women from doing sewa at any other gurdwaras so stop lying.

 

 

 

The same husband you looked on as ahorse on your wedding day. All you have to do is give him a nose-bag and a bucket of water and he will say what you want him to say.

 

 

It was forced onto the Panth. Next time you go india, take your husband/horse and go to Sri Akal Takht Sahib and ask them to include women in their monthly sinchaars there.

 

 

give one example.

 

 

You have already had your answer to this.

Is this male bias and chauvinism:

 

 

ਜਿਉ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਘਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਅਤਿ ਲੋਚੈ ਭਗਤੀ ਭਾਇ
ਬਹੁ ਰਸ ਸਾਲਣੇ ਸਵਾਰਦੀ ਖਟ ਰਸ ਮੀਠੇ ਪਾਇ .
ਤਿਉ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਸਲਾਹਦੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ
 
੧੪੧੩

 

Now you will say "why isnt there a verse for men to serve their wives with the same devotion?"

 

 

He doesn't sound like someone who could read. neigh, whinny and trump yes.

 

 

Speak for yourself. The other kaurs on this fourm have already tried to warn you from making an imbecile of yourself on another public forum. But you haven't listened. Stop trying to drag them into your stupidity and discussions.

 

Humans?  Only humans?

Post them then.

I will post shabads which show that the divine light in carried in all vegetation, animal life, AND humans. Even stones. And more.

 

 

If you weren't so devious you would have answered these points, instead of pretending to be a horse writing for you.

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1 minute ago, JUSTAJATT said:

miss harkiran ji.

You better stop chasing the dogtail with your same ol song and stop getting the kacheras in a twist.

It's a shame cuz looking at your activities on the forums, your sikhi has improved very little over the 3-4 years. Are you gonna just keep doing the same cuz you certainly aint helping yourself or raisng your consciousness. You've been welcomed into sikhi and instead of having humility, dignity and respect, you've just been enforcing your feminist views which btw are nothing to do with equality.

You from Canada, so maybe you should read and see some Jordan Peterson lectures/videos.. That professor's views are more in line with sikhi, for someone who doesn't speak about the faith.. You may learn the difference between what inequality is and how feminism is not the solution and can only make matters worse. 

seriously, >>> you've got to try and swallow some of the points that have been addressed to you over the years. ..Swallow them, meditate on them and let them sprout with knowledge. Swallow them, don't spit.

 

Here is why it matters:

atma is genderless - agree?

life is impermanent and this body is false - agree? (Meaning you can't take your <banned word filter activated> with you)

Given that other species procreate asexually, it's known humans reproduce sexually to prevent genetic abnormalities since we are more complex.

Hindus believe someone is born female as punishment for past deeds, must serve males for minimum 6 more lifetimes before being born male and being able to advance.

our Gurus killed this idea saying this HUMAN body is precious and every human has opportunity to merge back with Creator.

if the atma residing in the body is not being punished to be the gender they are, and the atma is genderless and every one is the same divine light then how can those souls in female bodies have to experience punishment while in this life? You have to then say why. 

Also, by saying ALL Sikhs must strive to take Amrit and saying that only males can initiate others then you are basically saying that those souls inhabiting frmale bodies are inherently lower avastha than those in male bodies. Because females would have to entirely rely on males for their spiritual advancement. This speaks as to something being wrong with female bodies or at the very least treating female bodies like a child compared to an adult in spiritual matters. You can't get around the fact that it means souls in female bodies are seen as lower. 

But doesn't Gurbani say that every human is equal and all contain the same divine light equally? How can souls in male bodies be higher spiritually speaking then? 

By sayng women can't do this seva you are saying women can't progress spiritually on their own and require males to pull them along. Nothing like being made to feel inadequate! Imagine that for a moment that the body you ended up with is defective and seen as a vehicle that will break down and never get you to the destination unless towed along by the opposite gender. 

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1 minute ago, HarkiranKaur said:

.

if the atma residing in the body is not being punished to be the gender they are, and the atma is genderless and every one is the same divine light then how can those souls in female bodies have to experience punishment while in this life? You have to then say why. 

Also, by saying ALL Sikhs must strive to take Amrit and saying that only males can initiate others then you are basically saying that those souls inhabiting frmale bodies are inherently lower avastha than those in male bodies. Because females would have to entirely rely on males for their spiritual advancement. This speaks as to something being wrong with female bodies or at the very least treating female bodies like a child compared to an adult in spiritual matters. You can't get around the fact that it means souls in female bodies are seen as lower. 

But doesn't Gurbani say that every human is equal and all contain the same divine light equally? How can souls in male bodies be higher spiritually speaking then? 

By sayng women can't do this seva you are saying women can't progress spiritually on their own and require males to pull them along. Nothing like being made to feel inadequate! Imagine that for a moment that the body you ended up with is defective and seen as a vehicle that will break down and never get you to the destination unless towed along by the opposite gender. 

 

Ok, so take these "facts" to the Gurdwara you ttok amrit in and ask them whether eunuchs/she-males/trans-genders  are included in being part of the Panj. Cite the aboive reason and then give us their response.

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7 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Here is why it matters:

atma is genderless - agree?

life is impermanent and this body is false - agree? (Meaning you can't take your <banned word filter activated> with you)

Given that other species procreate asexually, it's known humans reproduce sexually to prevent genetic abnormalities since we are more complex.

Hindus believe someone is born female as punishment for past deeds, must serve males for minimum 6 more lifetimes before being born male and being able to advance.

our Gurus killed this idea saying this HUMAN body is precious and every human has opportunity to merge back with Creator.

if the atma residing in the body is not being punished to be the gender they are, and the atma is genderless and every one is the same divine light then how can those souls in female bodies have to experience punishment while in this life? You have to then say why. 

Also, by saying ALL Sikhs must strive to take Amrit and saying that only males can initiate others then you are basically saying that those souls inhabiting frmale bodies are inherently lower avastha than those in male bodies. Because females would have to entirely rely on males for their spiritual advancement. This speaks as to something being wrong with female bodies or at the very least treating female bodies like a child compared to an adult in spiritual matters. You can't get around the fact that it means souls in female bodies are seen as lower. 

But doesn't Gurbani say that every human is equal and all contain the same divine light equally? How can souls in male bodies be higher spiritually speaking then? 

By sayng women can't do this seva you are saying women can't progress spiritually on their own and require males to pull them along. Nothing like being made to feel inadequate! Imagine that for a moment that the body you ended up with is defective and seen as a vehicle that will break down and never get you to the destination unless towed along by the opposite gender. 

You don't get it and keep repeating the same ol farts.

Where have I spoken about inequality? 

Is this all you are going to do here?>>>> just twist the kachas??   twist my words??

Why don't you pay some goddamned attention to what I said > and swallow what is being told.

You already seen Jordan Peterson lectures that fast???

Go back>>read your posts>> and see what off-tangent cuckoo you really are.

Pathetic

 

 

 

 

Edited by JUSTAJATT

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HARKIRAN SATKIRAN AKA WHATEVER

Seeing that you think you know so much about atma genders...answer me>>>>

WHAT IS THE DIFFERETNCE BETWEEN SOUL AND SPIRIT??

Edited by JUSTAJATT

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Note to Mods: Don't be supporting changes to Gurmat, for the love you may have Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji giving Amrit in the form of Khand-Di-Pahul ban that user who is attempting to change such a thing.

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This whole topic is a joke. All you feminist bandari's and their chumche supporters please explain the following;

Why were all 10 Gurus men? In some instances such as 8th Guru & 10th Guru the gurgaddi was passed to a male child but still no women?

Why are all the Bhagats with bani in SGGS men?

Why were all the Panj Pyare men?

Why has every major religion in the world always started by a man?

Anyone who thinks they are going to walk into our panth & change our traditions is having a laugh... you nindaks of the Gurus maryada are going to end up in one place & one place only... you know where it is.

Old Rehitname clearly say women are not to be given Khande bata Di pahul. There's no written historical evidence that any women were give Khande Di pahul in 1699.

feminist bandaris and their chumche men... here's an idea... take your views, opinions & changes you want to Hazur Sahib or Budha Dal.... will be good to see how many minutes it's takes before a A WOMAN from there gives you a slap in the face before kicking you out onto your backside.

Listen to Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwales katha of Sukhmani Sahib. Sant Ji clearly says any woman who reads Sukhmani Sahib with the desire to be reborn as a man her desire will be fulfilled. 

Just because Guru Sahib afforded women 'respect' that doesn't mean they are completely equal... how can they be when men & women were created to be different??

And all you chumche, pathetic excuse for men... mahraj told us to respect women, protect women & to honour them... we wasn't told to place women on our heads & give them the same tasks men have been assigned to do.

 

Edited by Mahakaal96

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Harkiran penji, you really do go OTT on the equality issue of women.  You keep stating the Rehat Maryada as an excuse I think for women equality, and that's the only thing you keep repeating again and again, theemia, women, janania, bibian.  Haven't you read the point c under it about disabled people, where are your thoughts, views, of equality then.  If I thought the way you did, I'd have written something about that, but have I ?  NO... I think you are just seeing the word woman as equality.  If you believed in equality so much, you'd be commenting on other clauses too. But for your own matlab, I think you're just using point b to your advantage and matlab.  

Bye...

Edited by simran345

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With "equal rights" come "equal responsibilities ".

With this so called privilege you need to stand up and be counted.

Neither can you hide behind your gender when it suits your purpose.

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6 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

With "equal rights" come "equal responsibilities ".

With this so called privilege you need to stand up and be counted.

Neither can you hide behind your gender when it suits your purpose.

That's why I have 20 years service to my country in the military, in one of the most difficult areas to serve... submarines. I always passed physical test just like any males, and had to be able to fire fight with over 50 lbs gear, turn every valve and react to any other emergencies just like the guys. Down there (below the surface of the ocean) there were no males or females, only crew. There I learned that gender truly does not matter only actions and will. I thought Sikhi was the same. 

For the one who mentioned Gurmat, I will point out what my husband found: 

IMG_0687.PNG.11f96dd3fc1b222828d32ea8afd76506.PNG

And this is what is in Sikh Rehet Maryada: hint look at Article XXIV para b. Second last sentence...

IMG_0654.thumb.PNG.3116d02e46b41e9d752dfa9b1fec00c8.PNG

Therefore I am not trying to change anything at all. Neither does SGGSJ say anything about one gender having privilege over the other. 

Taksali Rehet Maryada (male centric) is for Taksalis. Nihang Rehet Maryada is for Nihangs (including Jhatka). AKJ Rehet Maryada (with sarbloh bibek, keski, equality etc) is for AKJs. Sikh Rehet Maryada is for the bulk of the panth. Those of you who feel it was forced on you then choose your favourite jatha and be done with it. Those of you who say it was forced on the panth seem to want to do the exact same thing with the taksali Maryada and force that one on the panth? There is a word for that and it begins with H. Remember Hari Singh Randhawa? He got a taste of what happens when taksali Maryada is forced on a sangat who don't want it. That should be enough of a clue that it's not set to be a 'panthic' Maryada. So if you want to follow it then follow it. But please don't disrespect the panthic Rehet Maryada in the process. 

Edited by HarkiranKaur
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Can someone please help me with understanding exactly why a woman cannot be one of the panj pyare

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