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Guest jagsaw singh

Some Home Truths

169 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

You needn't worry there are plenty of broad minded, highly educated and sharp Sikh women over here that will shut her up and put her in her place. I feel sorry for the people of Kashmir having to put up with her underclass behaviour. Sikhi frees us from uncouthness, it doesn't seem to have sunk in yet, it seems, in her case.

You know nothing about her and how much she is respected. Someone should shut you up and put you in your place for disrespecting someone you know nothing about. Underclass behaviour? For pointing out what Sikh rehet Maryada says? You have no idea what underclass means.

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15 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

You know nothing about her and how much she is respected. Someone should shut you up and put you in your place for disrespecting someone you know nothing about. Underclass behaviour? For pointing out what Sikh rehet Maryada says? You have no idea what underclass means.

Your posts tell me all I need to know. Stop insulting the SGGS, The DASAM Granth,  the Sikh panth, taksaals, the Sikh mariyaada and the Sikh women all over the world!  

Why should I shut up?

I AM NOT THE ONE CRITICISING OR RAISING DOUBTS AS TO THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE  SIKH FAITH OR ITS HOLY SCRIPTURE OF THE DASAM GRANTH. I AM NOT THE ONE PROMOTING THE IDEA OF WOMEN SERVING AS THE FIVE BELOVEDS! YOU BOTH ARE. I AM AN AMRITDHARI SIKH not some illiterate rustic pindoo from Kashmir!  Don't you DARE insult the sanctity of the Amrit Sanchaar marayaada, or the SGGS OR THE DASAM GRANTH. If your wife is not happy with Sikhi as it stands she can get lost. I will not stand FOR ANY TOM, PLAIN JANE AND HARRY SHOWING DISRESPECT TO MY FAITH FOR WHICH MY GURUS HAVE MADE HUGE SACRIFICES. I OWE MY SIKHI TO THEM. And, you ought to be ashamed of yourself that I have to remind you of this and for allowing her to behave like this.

The Sikh Rehat Maryada addresses key issues such as the definition of a Sikh, personal and communal obligations such as meditation and volunteer service, rules for gurdwara services to include appropriate music and festivals, and the conduct of assorted Sikh ceremonies.[16]

 

STOP PRIVOKING PEOPLE OVER HERE. THERE ARE MANY ANRITDHARRY SIKHS USING THIS FORUM and  I AM ONE OF THEM.

Edited by sikhojaago

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5 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

Your posts tell me all I need to know about you two nincompoops!  Shut up both of you and stop insulting the SGGS, The DASAM Granth,  the Sikh panth, taksaals, the Sikh mariyaada and the Sikh women all over the world! 

As I said, there are plenty of Sikh women here that will shut you both up and put you both in your place.

Is there no end to your foolishness?  Why are you so henpecked by the convert?

Your behaviour shows me all I need to know about your childish and unsikhlike behaviour. We have done nothing to insult SGGSJ show me where! I dare you! Neither the panth, and as far as Taksalis are concerned all I said was there are several lineages claiming the same. Aside from that my wife said they limit women from seva. Which they do so how is that an insult when they openly admit it? And we uphold the Sikh Rehet Maryada. If you are looking for someone who insults it you better look at those who say it was forced on them and put it down like that Chatanga who insulted me. 

You are so close minded it's not even worth trying to have a sane discussion. 

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No, she said why are women not allowed to do the sewa of the Five Beloveds!  Who does she think she is to QUESTION Sikhi, the Sikh  Gurus, the Sikh taksaals and the rights of the Sikh women? The SIKH GURUS HAVE TAKEN CARE OF EVERYTHING FOR US, FOR THOSE  BORN AS SIKHS.  WE DO NOT NEED ANYONE LIKE YOU BOTH TO INSULT SIKHI OR THE SIKH WOMEN. The Panth is also made up of women in case you have forgotten.

It is BETTER TO have a Sikh mind that is well disciplined than to have an untamed, totally dissipated, all over the place, running hither and thither, uncontrolled and shallow mind! Stop behaving like busy bodies, stop meddling with Sikh issues that are beyond your comprehension.

Edited by sikhojaago
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13 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Your behaviour shows me all I need to know about your childish and unsikhlike behaviour. We have done nothing to insult SGGSJ show me where! I dare you! Neither the panth, and as far as Taksalis are concerned all I said was there are several lineages claiming the same. Aside from that my wife said they limit women from seva. Which they do so how is that an insult when they openly admit it? And we uphold the Sikh Rehet Maryada. If you are looking for someone who insults it you better look at those who say it was forced on them and put it down like that Chatanga who insulted me. 

You are so close minded it's not even worth trying to have a sane discussion. 

The education institution created by Vaheguru himself was clearly insulted by none other than Pro-Female Punj Pyare fanatics. Insulting the institution Vaheguru made himself is the same Beadbi to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as well. Only in Punj Pyare is such a gender-based Seva required, also that Punj Pyare member from that Kashmir Amrit Sanchar also gave false hopes in promoting Pakhand when he said he would want to see females in Punj Pyare now your wife somehow thinks she would have that opportunity. Did any Jathedar of SGPC get Shaheed? Badal and Gurbachana would be friends with each other, SGPC Maryada hasn't even been Amended to include the 7 banis of Nitnem. (If your Amrit Sanchar was still according to SGPC Maryada it's still true, so nobody is insulting that, but once any of the Punj Pyare are woman, you should really question the Gurdwara committee.) As long as 5 pyare are men and provide Nitnem, Khanda Amrit and Sarbloh Batta it's official.

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15 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 

If you had any imagination you would know in what/which context the word "underclass behaviour' was used. It was used as in 'trash' behaviour! It has nothing to do with your wealth or status here.  The Sikh Rehat Maryada addresses key issues such as the definition of a Sikh, personal and communal obligations such as meditation and volunteer service, rules for gurdwara services to include appropriate music and festivals, and the conduct of assorted Sikh ceremonies. You might both be King and queen of Booffa, for all I care!  You are NOT ABOVE the SGGS JI, ITS TAKSAALS, REHAT MARIYAADA OR ANYTHING that falls within the teachings of the Sikh Gurus and IS CLASSED AS SIKHI. The Sikh women are perfectly content with Sikhi. What a shame you have no imagination whatsoever!  Pindoo lot!

Edited by sikhojaago
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2 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

You know nothing about her and how much she is respected. Someone should shut you up and put you in your place for disrespecting someone you know nothing about. Underclass behaviour? For pointing out what Sikh rehet Maryada says? You have no idea what underclass means.

Respected by whom? No one seems to be doing so here! Besides no one will respect a person or persons who insults or insult the Sikh Scripture or the Sikh  institutions! Whether they be white, black or brown! You both come across as very hateful, insecure and immature people. What are your reasons to be so? I notice they have finally managed to shut the blasphemous ones up. Good riddance to ....... 

Edited by CHaamCHrick

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3 hours ago, chatanga said:

Dont move this creature onto Dasam Granth!!

She has absolutely no aware of Dasam Granth. She is the same poster who started the topic on Sri Charitropakhyan about a month ago, showing her ignoracne on it.

 

ਬਲਬੀਰ ਸਿਆ, ਤੁਸੀ ਕਿਹੜੇ   ਮਗਰ ਲਗੇ ਹੋਏ ਹੈ? ਗ੍ਰੀਨ ਕਾਰਡ ਲੇਈ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਕੁਛ? 

Oh!!! Now we understand, the man's sold his soul for the Green Card, lol!

 

Edited by CHaamCHrick

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2 minutes ago, CHaamCHrick said:

Oh!!! Now we understand, the man's sold his soul for the Green Card, lol!

I genuinely thought she had some Lesbian Anand Karaj since "she" was talking about a wife, especially with everyone she was talking about.

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PLEASE ENOUGH !!!!

Admin close the topic ...bahut hogeha ...you guys are going against your better selves on both sides of this discussion. No sikh male or female should be this nasty to others ...it is better to stop talking altogether and spend time with Guru ji instead

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Just now, jkvlondon said:

PLEASE ENOUGH !!!!

Admin close the topic ...bahut hogeha ...you guys are going against your better selves on both sides of this discussion. No sikh male or female should be this nasty to others ...it is better to stop talking altogether and spend time with Guru ji instead

 

One reason why this forum is so dead is because of this obsession with closing topics.

What's wrong with a vigorous discussion?  If you don't like a particular discussion, you don't have to be in that thread.

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1 minute ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

One reason why this forum is so dead is because of this obsession with closing topics.

What's wrong with a vigorous discussion?  If you don't like a particular discussion, you don't have to be in that thread.

There's talking and there is slandering  this is tipping heavily in favour of the second .  If it was a real discussion that would be evident for anyone to see. Nothing positive is being achieved .

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3 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

There's talking and there is slandering  this is tipping heavily in favour of the second .  If it was a real discussion that would be evident for anyone to see. Nothing positive is being achieved .

OMG are you serious????????????

JKV - you are the one that slandered the disabled people who took wolverhampton gurdwara to court for discrimnating. Sangat - please check "Discrimination in the gurdwara" for this poster's behvkoofi.......

In fact, it wasnt slander, it was downright libellous..........

Yet again, your hypocrisy is unbelievable...........

Utter disgrace.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, whaeguru ji ki fateh

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7 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

PLEASE ENOUGH !!!!

Admin close the topic ...bahut hogeha ...you guys are going against your better selves on both sides of this discussion. No sikh male or female should be this nasty to others ...it is better to stop talking altogether and spend time with Guru ji instead

No !!!   Close ALL of YOUR topics.  This is my one and only thread and you come along and ask that it closes simply because discourse and reasoning scares you even though discourse and reasoning is a fundamental part of every other faith out there and a fundamental pre-requisite of human development.  I'm not even part of this side conversation going on but like thousands of others I'm glad for the opportunity to listen to differing points of view.  The way that so many here scream like a baby "close the topic NOW " every time a discussion takes place makes me extremely worried about the kind of people that will be steering Sikhi in the future.  I don't know if you guys know this but even the radical Muslims in this country, just like the Christians and Rastafarians etc, absolutely love having discussions where different viewpoints and interpretations are put across or, as they are known 'reasoning sessions'. They love them because it exercises and developments the mind.......improves critical thinking capabilities and empowers individuals. It is absolutely scandalous that anyone should be asking for a topic to be closed down simply because one individual on it feels incredibly strongly that Gurbani espouses gender equality. To crucify someone for that, whilst there are multitudes of our brethren and sistren out there stealing, drug-taking, killing and destroying makes me very fearful for our future.

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4 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

One reason why this forum is so dead is because of this obsession with closing topics.

What's wrong with a vigorous discussion?  If you don't like a particular discussion, you don't have to be in that thread.

I am glad you have mentioned this. How can any one in their wildest dreams or imagination think that they can change the the Amrit Sanchar ceremony as laid down by the Tenth Guru in 1699? Do they think that they are above or superior to Him because they are white/Caucasians converted to Sikhi? Who gives them this idea? Where do they get this idea from?

Amrit Sanchar ceremony is the most  sacrosanct ceremony for a Sikh.  And a true Sikh looks forward to going through with this ceremony in its most original form. You change this, you change everything. 

Edited by sikhojaago

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3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

There's talking and there is slandering  this is tipping heavily in favour of the second .  If it was a real discussion that would be evident for anyone to see. Nothing positive is being achieved .

Bit rich coming from you my friend 

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12 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

I am glad you have mentioned this. How can any one in their wildest dreams or imagination think that they can change the the Amrit Sanchar ceremony as laid down by the Tenth Guru in 1699? Do they think that they are above or superior to Him because they are white/Caucasians converted to Sikhi? Who gives them this idea? Where do they get this idea from? Amrit Sanchar ceremony is the most  sacrosanct ceremony for a Sikh.  And a true Sikh looks forward to going through with this ceremony in its most original form. You change this, you change everything. 

I never thought I'd ever use this term but in this particular situation it seems apt: it's white privilege. Hate to say it, but there's an element of that at play. 

Whether it's warranted or not isn't quite clear to me. Neither side seems to be doing themselves justice. The naturalised Punjabis seem quite jumpy and dictatorial, whilst the converts and their supporters refuse to concede the middle ground.

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That's why the vazooragh loke use to say don't let the malesh come near your dharam they will malign and corrupt it with their dirty minds.

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The Sikh Code of Conduct

The Sikh Code of Conduct is known as the Sikh Rehat Maryada. It is based upon the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib and Sikh traditions and conventions. These rules are meant for carrying out religious ceremonies and enforcing the discipline of the faith in a uniform manner throughout the world.

No individual or organisation, whosoever important as it may be, has a right to either amend these rules or to frame new ones. This power rests with the Panth (the whole community) acting through their Panj Pyare (five beloved ones). Any rule which overrides the basic teachings of the Faith is ignored.

All intoxicants such as alcohol and tobacco, trimming hair (keshas), and eating meat are forbidden. Adultery and pre-marital relations are considered a sin. A Sikh should regard another man’s wife as his sister or mother and another man’s daughter as his own daughter. The same rule is applicable to women as well.

  http://www.sikhism101.com/the-sikh-code-of-conduct/    

 

Edited by sikhojaago

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8 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

I am sorry to offend you but no, it is not their privilege at all. It is OUR privilege to love and respect our Sikhi till death do us part. It is OUR PRIVILIGE, as born Sikhs to protect it with our lives. Yes, it is MY PRIVILGE to preserve Sikhi from these outsiders. As far as I am concerned they are outsiders, and have no love or loyalty towards their adopted religion. 

Please note: No one is superior to my Gurus, Their Banies and Their Teachings!  

I am the privileged one to have been born as a Sikh to Sikh parents with Sikh siblings and Sikh relatives, not them. 

So you don't believe people should be allowed to convert? Also where was it mentioned that they were white?

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The trump police in full effect.. And yet as gursikh we supposed to fearless.. 

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30 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

I am sorry to offend you but no, it is not their privilege at all. It is OUR privilege to love and respect our Sikhi till death do us part. It is OUR PRIVILIGE, as born Sikhs to protect it with our lives. Yes, it is MY PRIVILGE to preserve Sikhi from these outsiders. As far as I am concerned they are outsiders, and have no love or loyalty towards their adopted religion. 

Please note: No one is superior to my Gurus, Their Banies and Their Teachings!  

I am the privileged one to have been born as a Sikh to Sikh parents with Sikh siblings and Sikh relatives, not them. 

I hope I haven't hurt your feelings by saying all this.

It's a term... never mind. 

Edited by MisterrSingh

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1 hour ago, sikhojaago said:

I am glad you have mentioned this. How can any one in their wildest dreams or imagination think that they can change the the Amrit Sanchar ceremony as laid down by the Tenth Guru in 1699? Do they think that they are above or superior to Him because they are white/Caucasians converted to Sikhi? Who gives them this idea? Where do they get this idea from?

Amrit Sanchar ceremony is the most  sacrosanct ceremony for a Sikh.  And a true Sikh looks forward to going through with this ceremony in its most original form. You change this, you change everything. 

Sikh Rehet Maryada 

Read Article XXIV para b.

That's Where.

Speak against this and its YOU who are disrespecting Sikh Rehet Maryada, not me or my husband. 

IMG_0654.thumb.PNG.6d50c2849b862c77e6b310763ab67ea8.PNG

I should also point you to this? Unless things have changed...

IMG_0687.PNG.22342577b692cadedcb903844b917739.PNG

We also hold SGGSJ as highest authority in our lives. HIGHEST! To say we disrespect Gurbani somehow is an affront.  We actually FOLLOW what it instructs us to do. By disregarding the MANY shabads that day this exact same thing it's YOU who are disrespecting Gurbani, not us.  

IMG_0683.PNG.3e94467f11451e346abdde87c79e5a6b.PNG

IMG_0685.PNG.77a2dd9e59869baf65107e6152e3f3ed.PNG

Gurbani tells you to see every human equally. There is no class or caste (gender is treated as a social class) and that the almighty is in every one of us. knowing this how can you limit some and privilege others based only on things they had no control over? Further Gurbani says we all should be judged on our MERITS and not our physical attributes. 

Finally, show us anywhere that Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that women are not allowed? Maybe it's YOU who are changing how he intended things to be by overlaying your own chauvinistic bias? Even his 52 hukams written AFTER 1699 and before he left this physical world, he never included anything to suggest that Amrit sanchars were a gender based duty.  Additionally, prior to 1699 women masands were given same Guru given authority to initiate Sikhs by charan Amrit in absence of the Guru. This is easily verified. There is no reason to believe all of a sudden Guru Gobind Singh Ji decided to hold a grudge against women that one day and for all time giving men perpetual privilege over women's spiritual advancement in this world, effectively making women entirely DEPENDENT on the male gender to advance spiritually?? What does that say about women's spiritual state? 

Its not us who are disrespecting anything it's you. We are simply following Rehet Maryada and living our lives in accordance with Gurbani. 

And one last thing if you follow taksal Maryada then this: pay particular attention to the note 22 it refers to. This is straight from vidhya.com: eliminated is a strong word! Not the gender but the DIFFERNCES meaning privileges or statuses that used to exist because of them. 

IMG_0656.PNG.565c50d135369196b4af618e40f0d6ae.PNG

Also I have never said anything so nasty as some of you have. Suggesting my husband only married me for a green card? Really you looking to try to hurt people? Is that really Sikh like? Shame on you all! Nasty vulgar people!!! 

Edited by HarkiranKaur

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21 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Respectfully, I follow Gurbani which is our living Guru and not any human 'sant' who can have their own opinion.

How can you follow gurbani when you can't read Gurbani in gurmukhi and which means you can't understand Gurbani.

He would have been brought up and instructed in DDT philosophy which as pointed out keeps women from most seva not just Panj Pyaras. And the reasoning has to do with impurity and menstruation.

These are all lies.  Sant ji in a video gives a reason to why women are not in punj pyare.  The reason has nothing to do with women being pure or impure.  You stated in a later post, your husband checks to see what is said in punjabi because you can't understand punjabi.  Since you lied about what sant ji said, this mean your husband the punjabi interpreter also cant understand punjabi.  My initial assessment of you being worse than a blind Hindu is spot on.

 

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