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Guest jagsaw singh

Some Home Truths

149 posts in this topic

PLEASE ENOUGH !!!!

Admin close the topic ...bahut hogeha ...you guys are going against your better selves on both sides of this discussion. No sikh male or female should be this nasty to others ...it is better to stop talking altogether and spend time with Guru ji instead

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Just now, jkvlondon said:

PLEASE ENOUGH !!!!

Admin close the topic ...bahut hogeha ...you guys are going against your better selves on both sides of this discussion. No sikh male or female should be this nasty to others ...it is better to stop talking altogether and spend time with Guru ji instead

 

One reason why this forum is so dead is because of this obsession with closing topics.

What's wrong with a vigorous discussion?  If you don't like a particular discussion, you don't have to be in that thread.

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1 minute ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

One reason why this forum is so dead is because of this obsession with closing topics.

What's wrong with a vigorous discussion?  If you don't like a particular discussion, you don't have to be in that thread.

There's talking and there is slandering  this is tipping heavily in favour of the second .  If it was a real discussion that would be evident for anyone to see. Nothing positive is being achieved .

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3 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

There's talking and there is slandering  this is tipping heavily in favour of the second .  If it was a real discussion that would be evident for anyone to see. Nothing positive is being achieved .

OMG are you serious????????????

JKV - you are the one that slandered the disabled people who took wolverhampton gurdwara to court for discrimnating. Sangat - please check "Discrimination in the gurdwara" for this poster's behvkoofi.......

In fact, it wasnt slander, it was downright libellous..........

Yet again, your hypocrisy is unbelievable...........

Utter disgrace.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, whaeguru ji ki fateh

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7 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

PLEASE ENOUGH !!!!

Admin close the topic ...bahut hogeha ...you guys are going against your better selves on both sides of this discussion. No sikh male or female should be this nasty to others ...it is better to stop talking altogether and spend time with Guru ji instead

No !!!   Close ALL of YOUR topics.  This is my one and only thread and you come along and ask that it closes simply because discourse and reasoning scares you even though discourse and reasoning is a fundamental part of every other faith out there and a fundamental pre-requisite of human development.  I'm not even part of this side conversation going on but like thousands of others I'm glad for the opportunity to listen to differing points of view.  The way that so many here scream like a baby "close the topic NOW " every time a discussion takes place makes me extremely worried about the kind of people that will be steering Sikhi in the future.  I don't know if you guys know this but even the radical Muslims in this country, just like the Christians and Rastafarians etc, absolutely love having discussions where different viewpoints and interpretations are put across or, as they are known 'reasoning sessions'. They love them because it exercises and developments the mind.......improves critical thinking capabilities and empowers individuals. It is absolutely scandalous that anyone should be asking for a topic to be closed down simply because one individual on it feels incredibly strongly that Gurbani espouses gender equality. To crucify someone for that, whilst there are multitudes of our brethren and sistren out there stealing, drug-taking, killing and destroying makes me very fearful for our future.

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4 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

One reason why this forum is so dead is because of this obsession with closing topics.

What's wrong with a vigorous discussion?  If you don't like a particular discussion, you don't have to be in that thread.

I am glad you have mentioned this. How can any one in their wildest dreams or imagination think that they can change the the Amrit Sanchar ceremony as laid down by the Tenth Guru in 1699? Do they think that they are above or superior to Him because they are white/Caucasians converted to Sikhi? Who gives them this idea? Where do they get this idea from?

Amrit Sanchar ceremony is the most  sacrosanct ceremony for a Sikh.  And a true Sikh looks forward to going through with this ceremony in its most original form. You change this, you change everything. 

Edited by sikhojaago
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12 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

I am glad you have mentioned this. How can any one in their wildest dreams or imagination think that they can change the the Amrit Sanchar ceremony as laid down by the Tenth Guru in 1699? Do they think that they are above or superior to Him because they are white/Caucasians converted to Sikhi? Who gives them this idea? Where do they get this idea from? Amrit Sanchar ceremony is the most  sacrosanct ceremony for a Sikh.  And a true Sikh looks forward to going through with this ceremony in its most original form. You change this, you change everything. 

I never thought I'd ever use this term but in this particular situation it seems apt: it's white privilege. Hate to say it, but there's an element of that at play. 

Whether it's warranted or not isn't quite clear to me. Neither side seems to be doing themselves justice. The naturalised Punjabis seem quite jumpy and dictatorial, whilst the converts and their supporters refuse to concede the middle ground.

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That's why the vazooragh loke use to say don't let the malesh come near your dharam they will malign and corrupt it with their dirty minds.

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The Sikh Code of Conduct

The Sikh Code of Conduct is known as the Sikh Rehat Maryada. It is based upon the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib and Sikh traditions and conventions. These rules are meant for carrying out religious ceremonies and enforcing the discipline of the faith in a uniform manner throughout the world.

No individual or organisation, whosoever important as it may be, has a right to either amend these rules or to frame new ones. This power rests with the Panth (the whole community) acting through their Panj Pyare (five beloved ones). Any rule which overrides the basic teachings of the Faith is ignored.

All intoxicants such as alcohol and tobacco, trimming hair (keshas), and eating meat are forbidden. Adultery and pre-marital relations are considered a sin. A Sikh should regard another man’s wife as his sister or mother and another man’s daughter as his own daughter. The same rule is applicable to women as well.

  http://www.sikhism101.com/the-sikh-code-of-conduct/    

 

Edited by sikhojaago

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8 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

I am sorry to offend you but no, it is not their privilege at all. It is OUR privilege to love and respect our Sikhi till death do us part. It is OUR PRIVILIGE, as born Sikhs to protect it with our lives. Yes, it is MY PRIVILGE to preserve Sikhi from these outsiders. As far as I am concerned they are outsiders, and have no love or loyalty towards their adopted religion. 

Please note: No one is superior to my Gurus, Their Banies and Their Teachings!  

I am the privileged one to have been born as a Sikh to Sikh parents with Sikh siblings and Sikh relatives, not them. 

So you don't believe people should be allowed to convert? Also where was it mentioned that they were white?

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30 minutes ago, sikhojaago said:

I am sorry to offend you but no, it is not their privilege at all. It is OUR privilege to love and respect our Sikhi till death do us part. It is OUR PRIVILIGE, as born Sikhs to protect it with our lives. Yes, it is MY PRIVILGE to preserve Sikhi from these outsiders. As far as I am concerned they are outsiders, and have no love or loyalty towards their adopted religion. 

Please note: No one is superior to my Gurus, Their Banies and Their Teachings!  

I am the privileged one to have been born as a Sikh to Sikh parents with Sikh siblings and Sikh relatives, not them. 

I hope I haven't hurt your feelings by saying all this.

It's a term... never mind. 

Edited by MisterrSingh

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21 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Respectfully, I follow Gurbani which is our living Guru and not any human 'sant' who can have their own opinion.

How can you follow gurbani when you can't read Gurbani in gurmukhi and which means you can't understand Gurbani.

He would have been brought up and instructed in DDT philosophy which as pointed out keeps women from most seva not just Panj Pyaras. And the reasoning has to do with impurity and menstruation.

These are all lies.  Sant ji in a video gives a reason to why women are not in punj pyare.  The reason has nothing to do with women being pure or impure.  You stated in a later post, your husband checks to see what is said in punjabi because you can't understand punjabi.  Since you lied about what sant ji said, this mean your husband the punjabi interpreter also cant understand punjabi.  My initial assessment of you being worse than a blind Hindu is spot on.

 

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18 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

You know nothing about her and how much she is respected. Someone should shut you up and put you in your place for disrespecting someone you know nothing about. Underclass behaviour? For pointing out what Sikh rehet Maryada says? You have no idea what underclass means.

 

I know ALL about asatkiran. I have been witness to her crass and erratic behavour for time. She was put in her place on Sikhawareness forum and no dount the time has come for her to be put in her place here. It was long overdue.

 

And if you are wondering why she is called asatkiran, it's because she is truly a ray of falsehood.  Even then she didn't know what the word "asatkiran" meant. Someone else had to point it out to her. So much for 20+ years of studying sikhi as she likes to claim.

 

Asatkiran created a topic and tried to insult Sri Charitropakhyan, but I knew it was her straightaway, and then when I called her out and told everyone here her real identity, lo and behold, who pops up to defend herself? Claiming that the OP "found" her on another forum and informed her about this topic? What rot. What nonsense. That is truly underclass behaviour.

 

 

17 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 We have done nothing to insult SGGSJ show me where! I dare you! 

Aside from that my wife said they limit women from seva.

 

This again is a trait of asatkiran. Sentences with exclamation marks continously. Then she tries to pretend it's her horse of a husband. She tried the same on Sikhawareness and here as well.

 

16 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I genuinely thought she had some Lesbian Anand Karaj since "she" was talking about a wife, especially with everyone she was talking about.

Don't be fooled by it. It's not her husband.

 

10 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Sikh Rehet Maryada 

Read Article XXIV para b.

That's Where.

Speak against this and its YOU who are disrespecting Sikh Rehet Maryada, not me or my husband.

 

This is A Sikh rehet maryada. It is only a recent invention that was forced on the panth.

 

9 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

People should be judged on their actions and not their genitals (nor on the actions or inactions of others who happened to have the same genitals)

 

Yes thy should. But for the purposes of panj pyareu sewa, only males woith complete bodies are allowed to it. That means no women, no transgenders, no eunuchs as well as people who have any limbs or digits missing.

 

If your precious fools who gave you amrit said that women should also be allowed to do this sewa, then you should have struck a blow for ALL people of all genders and no-genders alike, by stating that eunuchs should also be allowed to do it.

Seeing as you are in Kashmir, go ot the place where you took amrit and ask them to include eunuchs and people of no genders in the panj. let's see where that gets you. take your horse husband as well, he sounds like he needs a thappar.

And film it, so we can see. Come on ! I dare you! Balbir Singh you as well! Go and try it!

 

9 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 Would our Guru hold grudges against anyone with a certain genitals or would he rather judge someone on their own actions?

 

That will be the next step of your journey. let us know how it works out.

 

 

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miss harkiran ji.

You better stop chasing the dogtail with your same ol song and stop getting the kacheras in a twist.

It's a shame cuz looking at your activities on the forums, your sikhi has improved very little over the 3-4 years. Are you gonna just keep doing the same cuz you certainly aint helping yourself or raisng your consciousness. You've been welcomed into sikhi and instead of having humility, dignity and respect, you've just been enforcing your feminist views which btw are nothing to do with equality.

You from Canada, so maybe you should read and see some Jordan Peterson lectures/videos.. That professor's views are more in line with sikhi, for someone who doesn't speak about the faith.. You may learn the difference between what inequality is and how feminism is not the solution and can only make matters worse. 

seriously, >>> you've got to try and swallow some of the points that have been addressed to you over the years. ..Swallow them, meditate on them and let them sprout with knowledge. Swallow them, don't spit.

 

Edited by JUSTAJATT

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7 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

By the way your mouth could use some soap. Your mother should have taught you better manners than to resort to name calling years ago. Notice I still have not called you any names? And I will never stoop to your low level either. 

And bye you won't get any fans for Charitropakhyan in this part of India. 

Oh>>> no names. you say you don't call names and have never called any >>>but throwing sticks and stones is less than names then?

(just realised maybe canucks don't do the sticks and stones may break my bones..... rhyming)

Edited by JUSTAJATT

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5 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Yes there were Amrit sanchars here with Kaur's as Panj Pyaras. Don't worry we will get you photo but does it matter?

 

Thats not what i asked you for and you know it.  I'll repeat again:

32 minutes ago, chatanga said:

Seeing as you are in Kashmir, go ot the place where you took amrit and ask them to include eunuchs and people of no genders in the panj. let's see where that gets you. take your horse husband as well, he sounds like he needs a thappar.

And film it, so we can see. Come on ! I dare you! Balbir Singh you as well! Go and try it!

That will be the next step of your journey. let us know how it works out.

 

Plain and simple.

 

5 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

By the way your mouth could use some soap. Your mother should have taught you better manners than to resort to name calling years ago. Notice I still have not called you any names? And I will never stoop to your low level either. 

And bye you won't get any fans for Charitropakhyan in this part of India. 

 

Your mother should have taught you not to be so devious. Its your deviousness that you need to work on.

 

5 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

And bye you won't get any fans for Charitropakhyan in this part of India. 

 

Yes because you speak for all of them like you try and speak for all Sikh women.

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22 hours ago, chatanga said:

It doesn't say it anywhere. Now you show us in Gurbani where it says to take "Khande di pahul".

 

Taksal only at their own gurdwaras do their own sewa. They do not stop any women from doing sewa at any other gurdwaras so stop lying.

 

 

 

The same husband you looked on as ahorse on your wedding day. All you have to do is give him a nose-bag and a bucket of water and he will say what you want him to say.

 

 

It was forced onto the Panth. Next time you go india, take your husband/horse and go to Sri Akal Takht Sahib and ask them to include women in their monthly sinchaars there.

 

 

give one example.

 

 

You have already had your answer to this.

Is this male bias and chauvinism:

 

 

ਜਿਉ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਘਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਅਤਿ ਲੋਚੈ ਭਗਤੀ ਭਾਇ
ਬਹੁ ਰਸ ਸਾਲਣੇ ਸਵਾਰਦੀ ਖਟ ਰਸ ਮੀਠੇ ਪਾਇ .
ਤਿਉ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਸਲਾਹਦੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ
 
੧੪੧੩

 

Now you will say "why isnt there a verse for men to serve their wives with the same devotion?"

 

 

He doesn't sound like someone who could read. neigh, whinny and trump yes.

 

 

Speak for yourself. The other kaurs on this fourm have already tried to warn you from making an imbecile of yourself on another public forum. But you haven't listened. Stop trying to drag them into your stupidity and discussions.

 

Humans?  Only humans?

Post them then.

I will post shabads which show that the divine light in carried in all vegetation, animal life, AND humans. Even stones. And more.

 

 

If you weren't so devious you would have answered these points, instead of pretending to be a horse writing for you.

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1 minute ago, HarkiranKaur said:

.

if the atma residing in the body is not being punished to be the gender they are, and the atma is genderless and every one is the same divine light then how can those souls in female bodies have to experience punishment while in this life? You have to then say why. 

Also, by saying ALL Sikhs must strive to take Amrit and saying that only males can initiate others then you are basically saying that those souls inhabiting frmale bodies are inherently lower avastha than those in male bodies. Because females would have to entirely rely on males for their spiritual advancement. This speaks as to something being wrong with female bodies or at the very least treating female bodies like a child compared to an adult in spiritual matters. You can't get around the fact that it means souls in female bodies are seen as lower. 

But doesn't Gurbani say that every human is equal and all contain the same divine light equally? How can souls in male bodies be higher spiritually speaking then? 

By sayng women can't do this seva you are saying women can't progress spiritually on their own and require males to pull them along. Nothing like being made to feel inadequate! Imagine that for a moment that the body you ended up with is defective and seen as a vehicle that will break down and never get you to the destination unless towed along by the opposite gender. 

 

Ok, so take these "facts" to the Gurdwara you ttok amrit in and ask them whether eunuchs/she-males/trans-genders  are included in being part of the Panj. Cite the aboive reason and then give us their response.

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7 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Here is why it matters:

atma is genderless - agree?

life is impermanent and this body is false - agree? (Meaning you can't take your <banned word filter activated> with you)

Given that other species procreate asexually, it's known humans reproduce sexually to prevent genetic abnormalities since we are more complex.

Hindus believe someone is born female as punishment for past deeds, must serve males for minimum 6 more lifetimes before being born male and being able to advance.

our Gurus killed this idea saying this HUMAN body is precious and every human has opportunity to merge back with Creator.

if the atma residing in the body is not being punished to be the gender they are, and the atma is genderless and every one is the same divine light then how can those souls in female bodies have to experience punishment while in this life? You have to then say why. 

Also, by saying ALL Sikhs must strive to take Amrit and saying that only males can initiate others then you are basically saying that those souls inhabiting frmale bodies are inherently lower avastha than those in male bodies. Because females would have to entirely rely on males for their spiritual advancement. This speaks as to something being wrong with female bodies or at the very least treating female bodies like a child compared to an adult in spiritual matters. You can't get around the fact that it means souls in female bodies are seen as lower. 

But doesn't Gurbani say that every human is equal and all contain the same divine light equally? How can souls in male bodies be higher spiritually speaking then? 

By sayng women can't do this seva you are saying women can't progress spiritually on their own and require males to pull them along. Nothing like being made to feel inadequate! Imagine that for a moment that the body you ended up with is defective and seen as a vehicle that will break down and never get you to the destination unless towed along by the opposite gender. 

You don't get it and keep repeating the same ol farts.

Where have I spoken about inequality? 

Is this all you are going to do here?>>>> just twist the kachas??   twist my words??

Why don't you pay some goddamned attention to what I said > and swallow what is being told.

You already seen Jordan Peterson lectures that fast???

Go back>>read your posts>> and see what off-tangent cuckoo you really are.

Pathetic

 

 

 

 

Edited by JUSTAJATT

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HARKIRAN SATKIRAN AKA WHATEVER

Seeing that you think you know so much about atma genders...answer me>>>>

WHAT IS THE DIFFERETNCE BETWEEN SOUL AND SPIRIT??

Edited by JUSTAJATT

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Note to Mods: Don't be supporting changes to Gurmat, for the love you may have Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji giving Amrit in the form of Khand-Di-Pahul ban that user who is attempting to change such a thing.

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This whole topic is a joke. All you feminist bandari's and their chumche supporters please explain the following;

Why were all 10 Gurus men? In some instances such as 8th Guru & 10th Guru the gurgaddi was passed to a male child but still no women?

Why are all the Bhagats with bani in SGGS men?

Why were all the Panj Pyare men?

Why has every major religion in the world always started by a man?

Anyone who thinks they are going to walk into our panth & change our traditions is having a laugh... you nindaks of the Gurus maryada are going to end up in one place & one place only... you know where it is.

Old Rehitname clearly say women are not to be given Khande bata Di pahul. There's no written historical evidence that any women were give Khande Di pahul in 1699.

feminist bandaris and their chumche men... here's an idea... take your views, opinions & changes you want to Hazur Sahib or Budha Dal.... will be good to see how many minutes it's takes before a A WOMAN from there gives you a slap in the face before kicking you out onto your backside.

Listen to Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwales katha of Sukhmani Sahib. Sant Ji clearly says any woman who reads Sukhmani Sahib with the desire to be reborn as a man her desire will be fulfilled. 

Just because Guru Sahib afforded women 'respect' that doesn't mean they are completely equal... how can they be when men & women were created to be different??

And all you chumche, pathetic excuse for men... mahraj told us to respect women, protect women & to honour them... we wasn't told to place women on our heads & give them the same tasks men have been assigned to do.

 

Edited by Mahakaal96

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Harkiran penji, you really do go OTT on the equality issue of women.  You keep stating the Rehat Maryada as an excuse I think for women equality, and that's the only thing you keep repeating again and again, theemia, women, janania, bibian.  Haven't you read the point c under it about disabled people, where are your thoughts, views, of equality then.  If I thought the way you did, I'd have written something about that, but have I ?  NO... I think you are just seeing the word woman as equality.  If you believed in equality so much, you'd be commenting on other clauses too. But for your own matlab, I think you're just using point b to your advantage and matlab.  

Bye...

Edited by simran345

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With "equal rights" come "equal responsibilities ".

With this so called privilege you need to stand up and be counted.

Neither can you hide behind your gender when it suits your purpose.

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