Guest jagsaw singh

Some Home Truths

169 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Have you not scene the way apnay walk around smiling and holding hands like proper gaylords in Panjab???

seen it more in Pakistan then in Punjab , even pakistani /Indian freshies I've seen doing this in Green Street , but they soon stop . What's with the long painted pinky fingernail ? is that some kind of drug implement or code like the pierced ear in guys( meaning guy likes guys)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

What has happened is that the majority of apnay have jettisoned the traditional Indic caste system of varna, and replaced with a new one they've created themselves.

but it doesn't stop them criticising and belittling those of lesser opportunities than themselves in life which is so Antigurmat . Honestly, I would take all those jaaat named gurdwarey and rename them Gurdwara Naam Niwas ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

seen it more in Pakistan then in Punjab , even pakistani /Indian freshies I've seen doing this in Green Street , but they soon stop . What's with the long painted pinky fingernail ? is that some kind of drug implement or code like the pierced ear in guys( meaning guy likes guys)

So gay culture would've come from the Middle Eastern invaders? They'd be having very strange Kaamic interests, http://postober.com/general/top-10-countries-that-watch-the-most-porn/ since the southern bible belt watches more porn, I think it has something to do with the forbidden factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

So gay culture would've come from the Middle Eastern invaders? They'd be having very strange Kaamic interests, http://postober.com/general/top-10-countries-that-watch-the-most-porn/ since the southern bible belt watches more porn, I think it has something to do with the forbidden factor.

Islam is the only faith promoting the idea of 'serving boys' 'virgins' in jannat to do with what you will ...and I seem to remember a musalah comeback to Jagraj Veer ji if there isn't that but only Bhagti in Jannat then why would I want to go ? (hyde park series). Looking at the popular sites names list in Pakistan there seem to be a lot of incest related ones ...sick puppies . Yeah could be the strictness of purdah turns them into raving maniacs ...but methinks the faith doesn't help with so much kaamic thought encouragement  both in this  lok and the next.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

My first ever job, many decades ago was in a macho as hell Panjabi warehouse. Those guys there weren't remotely ashamed to tell it like it was in the villages of back home regarding homosexuality. And they were all married with kids. To them it was all acceptable.  

I wonder if the brothers who came over to the UK during the work permit craze of the Noughties partook in some of those shenanigans, what with 6 or more guys to a room, little to no female contact for a considerable period of time, etc. Actually, I should stop wondering about stuff like that, lol. There's got to be a reason why they don't get worked up about stuff like that, as opposed to guys like us who get uncomfortable when another fella's glance lingers longer than what's normally acceptable. There's got to be some historic cultural precedence from ages ago that informs that kind of carry on.

Edited by MisterrSingh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I wonder if the brothers who came over to the UK during the work permit craze of the Noughties partook in some of those shenanigans, what with 6 or more guys to a room, little to no female contact for a considerable period of time, etc. Actually, I should stop wondering about stuff like that, lol. There's got to be a reason why they don't get worked up about stuff like that, as opposed to guys like us who get uncomfortable when another fella's glance lingers longer than what's normally acceptable. There's got to be some historic cultural precedence from ages ago that informs that kind of carry on.

What you posted reminded me of some funny old stories from back in the day: During the late 80s at that first job I mentioned, I remember this other young guy there (an apna too, who was a couple of years older than me), he used to smoke hash hardcore, but he was cool. 

Anyway, some of the older blokes in the warehouse lived 'on premises' and in the evenings (after the warehouse closed) would have the typical drink 'session' now and then (it was a booze warehouse). This other young brother must have joined them one day and started to get stoned and plastered. Then he never came in the day after (which was weird)  and when he did, he came to me all wild eyed and paranoid (he was generally like that from all the ganja I guess?), and told me that 'mad things' happened that night he had a drink up. 

Apparently, some of the olders (who were mostly married and not at all camp - they were very masculine and mad fighters actually - and known for it), must have misread this young guy and thought he was up for some backdoor partying causing him to flee the warehouse in alarm! lol

That's how it goes. They sorted it out as a 'misunderstanding' afterwards but......

 

Same firm, a few years later, and some Pakistani family have persuaded the bosses to give their confused, camp a55 son a job there. Presumably to de-gayafy him in that hyper-masculine environment? But he'd bowl around the warehouse topless, mincing about saying things  like 'Tu mery bh**d maar ne aa?" 

He went missing for a few days too. When he came back he was all subdued and wasn't saying what he'd been saying previously. The story doing the rounds in the warehouse at the time was that some older sardar (he was from backhome, an archetype Jut uncle, big, greying beard, mooch vhut, hardworking as hell - I thought he was a nice guy myself), grabbed him in some quiet area when he kept saying what I quoted above, and the sardar stuck something up his jacksy, warning him next time he said what he'd been saying, he'd actually get what he wanted. 

I think there is a lot more gandu action going on in the community than we'd imagine. And from people we'd least imagine it from. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

...I think there is a lot more gandu action going on in the community than we'd imagine. And from people we'd least imagine it from. 

Oh man, that whole post you wrote was dank. I had an inkling things were bubbling under the surface, but not to that extent. They're like Romans... or Spartans, at least. They've got a wife and kids at home for the sake of appearances, but when the gaandu fever strikes all bets are off. Never mind lock up your daughters, it's protect your sons, with those kind of Punjabis on the loose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Oh man, that whole post you wrote was dank. I had an inkling things were bubbling under the surface, but not to that extent. They're like Romans... or Spartans, at least. They've got a wife and kids at home for the sake of appearances, but when the gaandu fever strikes all bets are off. Never mind lock up your daughters, it's protect your sons, with those kind of Punjabis on the loose.

No need to get paranoid. The simple truth is that we've got our own fair share of gandus like everyone else. One way in which we've effed up as a community is not making our kids 'streetwise' to these common human things (in my opinion). That's why you get our lot (especially the girls)  walking into all kinds of dumb ish with their eyes wide shut.

We as parents, and as a wider community need to take extra care of our vulnerable. Because parents do eff up sometimes, and whilst they are struggling to deal with their own crap, their kids are vulnerable as hell. Both from predatory forces within our community, as well as those outside. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

No need to get paranoid. The simple truth is that we've got our own fair share of gandus like everyone else. One way in which we've effed up as a community is not making our kids 'streetwise' to these common human things (in my opinion). That's why you get our lot (especially the girls)  walking into all kinds of dumb ish with their eyes wide shut.

We as parents, and as a wider community need to take extra care of our vulnerable. Because parents do eff up sometimes, and whilst they are struggling to deal with their own crap, their kids are vulnerable as hell. Both from predatory forces within our community, as well as those outside. 

if people ACTUALLY READ or listened to chaitropakiyan they would wake up a bit ...it is basically the warning we are meant to give our kids since we received it from our GuruPita ji too. We cannot afford to do the victorian thing and not tell our kids anything because it makes us uncomfortable only to have some miscreant do them over . I mean in my household we do not watch any bollywood stuff but hollywood and the music scene is bad enough to make my lads reckon there is something wrong unless they have girlfriend ... They seem to drop their heart easily and at the wrong type girl's feet ,I don't think I'm the only one seeing the blatant sexualising of everything and the age group getting lower and lower . The number of child on child sexual assaults are growing , the latest I read an 11 year old raped over five under 13s after getting influenced by porn and our kids can access it through their smartphones , forget about just policing the PCs. We need to talk to the lads just as much as the lasses, if the guys think it's OK to be loose morally they will not protect their sisters , because of the liberal agenda ....

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

if people ACTUALLY READ or listened to chaitropakiyan they would wake up a bit ...it is basically the warning we are meant to give our kids since we received it from our GuruPita ji too. We cannot afford to do the victorian thing and not tell our kids anything because it makes us uncomfortable only to have some miscreant do them over . I mean in my household we do not watch any bollywood stuff but hollywood and the music scene is bad enough to make my lads reckon there is something wrong unless they have girlfriend ... They seem to drop their heart easily and at the wrong type girl's feet ,I don't think I'm the only one seeing the blatant sexualising of everything and the age group getting lower and lower . The number of child on child sexual assaults are growing , the latest I read an 11 year old raped over five under 13s after getting influenced by porn and our kids can access it through their smartphones , forget about just policing the PCs. We need to talk to the lads just as much as the lasses, if the guys think it's OK to be loose morally they will not protect their sisters , because of the liberal agenda ....

I've asked this before, at what age do bibian think it is appropriate to start broaching the subject matter of CP with the youth, especially young girls?

You have to be careful with your sons, especially if they are mixed race. We aren't in a position to dictate arrange marriages in this day and age. And frankly speaking, mums have to be careful of not being overbearing with their sons (many Panjabi Sikh women are like this, naturally, and they don't even perceive it!) because in the same way abusive dads become models for the types of men daughters go on to seek, an overbearing mom easily becomes the archetype for boys who become attracted to bossy, dominating women in adulthood - I've seen it umpteen times, even in my own family.  This continually locks males into dysfunctional relationships. 

The whole issue of attracting females is a big one for Sikh males in this day and age, where a failure to be able to do so leads to all manner of self-esteem issues and isolation. Especially when they grow up seeing umpteen Sikh females having relationships with all and sundry. 

 

For the record, I don't think them having 'girlfriends' makes them prone to be indifferent to protecting their sisters. If anything it may well give them an insight into female psychology that they wouldn't get otherwise.  

Edited by dallysingh101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I've asked this before, at what age do bibian think it is appropriate to start broaching the subject matter of CP with the youth, especially young girls?

You have to be careful with your sons, especially if they are mixed race. We aren't in a position to dictate arrange marriages in this day and age. And frankly speaking, mums have to be careful of not being overbearing with their sons (many Panjabi Sikh women are like this, naturally, and they don't even perceive it!) because in the same way abusive dads become models for the types of men daughters go on to seek, an overbearing mom easily becomes the archetype for boys who become attracted to bossy, dominating women in adulthood - I've seen it umpteen times, even in my own family.  This continually locks males into dysfunctional relationships. 

The whole issue of attracting females is a big one for Sikh males in this day and age, where a failure to be able to do so leads to all manner of self-esteem issues and isolation. Especially when they grow up seeing umpteen Sikh females having relationships with all and sundry. 

 

For the record, I don't think them having 'girlfriends' makes them prone to be indifferent to protecting their sisters. If anything it may well give them an insight into female psychology that they wouldn't get otherwise.  

Unfortunately I had to start talking to Isher when she was six because she was groped by a classmate (I told the school that I didn't want to traumatise either child and wanted to let them know so they could get the parents to advise their lad what is not allowed ) . The school was impressed at the method with which I dealt with it and Isher wasn't bothered by the lad ever again . We had to go through the whole talk about not accepting behaviour that makes us feel uncomfortable and how to be safe . Recently we had the full on talk she is approaching 9 and I can see that the fact she is in an 75% muslim dominant situ means she needs to be equipped with the truth( I never BS my kids ). 

The lads are good in terms of running stuff past me , My only take on the whole thing is to be discerning , not rush headlong into stuff as Girls are teases (the pure truth) and manipulate guy's emotions to bolster their own egos . They have seen the clash of cultures so they get it when I say go for someone who is into sikhi rather than other faiths , they've been told to stay away from musalmahs as they would look to convert rather than become gursikhs . They knwo colour is not an issue just the sikhi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

Unfortunately I had to start talking to Isher when she was six because she was groped by a classmate (I told the school that I didn't want to traumatise either child and wanted to let them know so they could get the parents to advise their lad what is not allowed ) . The school was impressed at the method with which I dealt with it and Isher wasn't bothered by the lad ever again . We had to go through the whole talk about not accepting behaviour that makes us feel uncomfortable and how to be safe . Recently we had the full on talk she is approaching 9 and I can see that the fact she is in an 75% muslim dominant situ means she needs to be equipped with the truth( I never BS my kids ). 

The lads are good in terms of running stuff past me , My only take on the whole thing is to be discerning , not rush headlong into stuff as Girls are teases (the pure truth) and manipulate guy's emotions to bolster their own egos . They have seen the clash of cultures so they get it when I say go for someone who is into sikhi rather than other faiths , they've been told to stay away from musalmahs as they would look to convert rather than become gursikhs . They knwo colour is not an issue just the sikhi

Wow, 6 years old and you have to talk about that stuff....

I don't think the touching was sexual by the boy (unless he is getting abused himself or acting from what he sees at home - vicarious learning), but your approach was smart. 

I've got a few mixed race kids in my family, but they seem a bit confused as to identity, what with their 'Sikh' <cough, cough> parent being totally apathetic (maybe even holding covert feelings of antipathy towards their roots due to past bad experiences). Can your kids talk Panjabi? Someone overheard one of my mixed-race nephews talking about feeling stupid because he couldn't talk to his granddad in Panjabi. When you have coconut parents, it sadly leaves the kids a bit adrift. 

People talk about 'love conquers all' and all that, but often the kids from certain unions (when not given a strong identity) are put in a very sorry place. They usually end up either 'white' or converting to some other religion or generally irreligious. Unless the other partner is Muslim - them lot almost invariably seem to ensure the kids have a Muslim identity. At least the kids perceived themselves as Muslim. Our lot are pretty tough to get assimilated into when you're an outsider. 

In future we might see a wave of the offspring of mixed unions exploring their Sikh roots, I hope we are ready and capable of integrating them into our community by then. 

 

By the way, blokes can tease girls too, when they know they like them. You know, play dumb to what's going on. 

Edited by dallysingh101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Wow, 6 years old and you have to talk about that stuff....

I don't think the touching was sexual by the boy (unless he is getting abused himself or acting from what he sees at home - vicarious learning), but your approach was smart. 

I've got a few mixed race kids in my family, but they seem a bit confused as to identity, what with their 'Sikh' <cough, cough> parent being totally apathetic (maybe even holding covert feelings of antipathy towards their roots due to past bad experiences). Can your kids talk Panjabi? Someone overheard one of my mixed-race nephews talking about feeling stupid because he couldn't talk to his granddad in Panjabi. When you have coconut parents, it sadly leaves the kids a bit adrift. 

People talk about 'love conquers all' and all that, but often the kids from certain unions (when not given a strong identity) are put in a very sorry place. They usually end up either 'white' or converting to some other religion or generally irreligious. Unless the other partner is Muslim - them lot almost invariably seem to ensure the kids have a Muslim identity. At least the kids perceived themselves as Muslim. Our lot are pretty tough to get assimilated into when you're an outsider. 

In future we might see a wave of the offspring of mixed unions exploring their Sikh roots, I hope we are ready and capable of integrating them into our community by then. 

 

By the way, blokes can tease girls too, when they know they like them. You know, play dumb to what's going on. 

My lads can understand more than they speak because the lingua franca is english in the house but I insist on throwing in the punjabi idioms and phrases to get them used to conversational Punjabi they feel embarassed that they don't know more vocab but I have gotten in english-punjabi koshs and conversational punjabi  practice cds . My Mum's great she's always challenging them to learn more ... They have a strong identification with Sikhi more so than their other grandparent's culture because they don't like the falseness of the behaviour and speech , just to flatter and preen in front of others . They like like plain talking and what you is what you get ... They've never had a problem picking up languages so I can't see them not being fluent soon .

What I have experienced in my life is that if sikhi becomes part of their natural being , you cannot shake it ... big one because he was traumatised by apnay when he was tiny has trust issues with other sikhs but he still hasn't stopped being normal with me , we have major discussions about spirituality.

Yes gursikhs will be of every hue and world culture , and in that will be our strength provided we make proper preps now and be welcoming and fully in sikh culture including martial arts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Wow, 6 years old and you have to talk about that stuff....

I don't think the touching was sexual by the boy (unless he is getting abused himself or acting from what he sees at home - vicarious learning), but your approach was smart. 

I've got a few mixed race kids in my family, but they seem a bit confused as to identity, what with their 'Sikh' <cough, cough> parent being totally apathetic (maybe even holding covert feelings of antipathy towards their roots due to past bad experiences). Can your kids talk Panjabi? Someone overheard one of my mixed-race nephews talking about feeling stupid because he couldn't talk to his granddad in Panjabi. When you have coconut parents, it sadly leaves the kids a bit adrift. 

People talk about 'love conquers all' and all that, but often the kids from certain unions (when not given a strong identity) are put in a very sorry place. They usually end up either 'white' or converting to some other religion or generally irreligious. Unless the other partner is Muslim - them lot almost invariably seem to ensure the kids have a Muslim identity. At least the kids perceived themselves as Muslim. Our lot are pretty tough to get assimilated into when you're an outsider. 

In future we might see a wave of the offspring of mixed unions exploring their Sikh roots, I hope we are ready and capable of integrating them into our community by then. 

 

By the way, blokes can tease girls too, when they know they like them. You know, play dumb to what's going on. 

I think even 6 years old might be too late. There was a post on langar hall blog by a guy who hates babas and bana and goin to gurudwara because he was abused by a baba. His dad helped out at the gurudwara n let the kid run around. Another kid told him to go play in the van, and thats where the baba was hiding and trapped him. The baba had used the other kid to lure him to the van. I think he was younger than 5. Of course the baba said if u tell ur dad, he will be mad at u. So he kept quiet for years. And now he has trust n anxiety issues with gurudwaras etc

So, I think its really important to build confidence in kids, and teach them that adults even authority figures can be bad and if u feel uncomfortable, its ok to run away, scream and tattle. And man, we need to fear ppl in our community as well not just muslims. Especially babe, who become  babe for very shady reasons these days.  

My parents always had a suspicion of the priestly class. Never let the girls stay at gurudwara for too long, go alone, and were encouraged to stay away from babe. As i think panjabis fear the celibates, rightly so as the Catholic priests showed. But it was only the girls they were worried about, never the boys....

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

My parents always had a suspicion of the priestly class. Never let the girls stay at gurudwara for too long, go alone, and were encouraged to stay away from babe. As i think panjabis fear the celibates, rightly so as the Catholic priests showed. But it was only the girls they were worried about, never the boys....

Do you think there's ulterior motives in sections of the contemporary younger generation of Sikhs in the West, particularly those who follow certain traditions and sects, who've latched onto the apparently self-sacrificing idea about wishing to stay celibate and "serve the panth", in order to shield themselves from the pressure of getting married, allowing them to indulge their homosexual desires behind closed doors whilst presenting an image of religious piousness to their families and the community? 

Edited by MisterrSingh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that is the main reason that Guru ji rejected celibacy as a pathway , because they said it plain Kaam will NEVER be conquered that way . Plus Guru ji also explodes the whole danda of the brahmins and imams who trick the general population . Sikhi does NOT have priests , traditionally every gursikh was trained to be able to read larivaar so they could do their sehaj paat themselves so this whole substantard celibate granthi scene is a product of our own laxness.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

I think that is the main reason that Guru ji rejected celibacy as a pathway , because they said it plain Kaam will NEVER be conquered that way . Plus Guru ji also explodes the whole danda of the brahmins and imams who trick the general population . Sikhi does NOT have priests , traditionally every gursikh was trained to be able to read larivaar so they could do their sehaj paat themselves so this whole substantard celibate granthi scene is a product of our own laxness.

The thing that gets to me is the organised nature of it. They think they're being so smart about it, but anyone who can see through bull in general can immediately detect what's transpiring. It's incredibly cynical, but nobody is prepared to confront it. The elders give it a pass because either they're incredibly naive that such things are occurring, or because they've been completely hoodwinked. Give it another few decades and there'll be scandal after scandal emerging. All it takes is a couple of people breaking their silence, and it'll be laid bare.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Do you think there's ulterior motives in sections of the contemporary younger generation of Sikhs in the West, particularly those who follow certain traditions and sects, who've latched onto the apparently self-sacrificing idea about wishing to stay celibate and "serve the panth", in order to shield themselves from the pressure of getting married, allowing them to indulge their homosexual desires behind closed doors whilst presenting an image of religious piousness to their families and the community? 

I think a certain portion of people definitely do this. 

 

Abuse is going on everywhere - including within our own community, within families. 

 

 

Edited by dallysingh101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not too familiar with the workings of SAS, although I'm aware they perform admirable seva. I was just wondering, whenever SAS do whatever it is to retrieve these girls, do they make a distinction between a vulnerable girl from an unstable familial situation who was manipulated and groomed, and on the other end of the spectrum a brazen thrill seeker who bit off more than she could chew, and ended up in dire straits due to her own hubris? Or do they treat them all with the same touch? Is there an aftercare policy in place? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Im not too familiar with the workings of SAS, although I'm aware they perform admirable seva. I was just wondering, whenever SAS do whatever it is to retrieve these girls, do they make a distinction between a vulnerable girl from an unstable familial situation who was manipulated and groomed, and on the other end of the spectrum a brazen thrill seeker who bit off more than she could chew, and ended up in dire straits due to her own hubris? Or do they treat them all with the same touch? Is there an aftercare policy in place? 

well the bibi above had mentioned she was given counselling by the police and social services but it didn't help as much as talking to apne under SAS umbrella. Veer ji has mentioned there is definitely a spectrum , both in the types of girls  and their reactions to being rescued  (some are violent towards him because they are so brainwashed and under the influence of drugs) so he tailors his approach

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

well the bibi above had mentioned she was given counselling by the police and social services but it didn't help as much as talking to apne under SAS umbrella. Veer ji has mentioned there is definitely a spectrum , both in the types of girls  and their reactions to being rescued  (some are violent towards him because they are so brainwashed and under the influence of drugs) so he tailors his approach

 

That's good to hear. The reason I asked the question was due to the thought of how each of these situations is incredibly unique despite the desired end result being the same. I'd like to think those girls who have been raised in a home that is lax on discipline and certain positive Punjabi cultural norms, should be made aware that those undertaking this seva are putting a lot on the line to extricate them from a situation that is mostly self-inflicted. I'd hate to think the naive Sikh girl who is preyed upon by opportunists is treated the same as the Sikh girl who escapes to uni in the hope of sleeping with as many guys she can get her hands on. There's a marked difference between the two, and I'd hope the situational approach from SAS reflects that difference. That's not to say I'd expect SAS to wag their finger in disapproval at those girls, especially during a traumatic period of time regardless of blame, but ultimately considering the service being provided for these girls and their families, I would think SAS are well within their rights to impress the need for certain religious values to prevent any future misshaps. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well now. If anyone ever wanted proof of why other communities paint we Sikhs as simple people incapable of intellectual thinking, the last 2 pages of this thread are it. This is what we've learned about ourselves from the second half of page 2 to here:

1) Ignore and forget the fact that our 7th Guru (Sri Guru Har Rai Ji) was the world's foremost and greatest 'eco'warrior' and start labelling others as 'ecowarriors' as a term of insult. And then start talking continously about gay men.

2) Just ignore and pretend that you're not being told that animals are killed in order to make 'Fairy-Liquid' whilst there are some supermarket own label ones out there that animals did not die for. Just ignore the fact that langar in the gurdwara is being served in dishes washed with the dead animal product and instead just start abusing the lady that should have made you think why we make that decision to take the dead animal one to the Gurdwara like un-padhs incapable of thinking. And then start talking continously about gay men. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/10/2017 at 5:07 PM, jkvlondon said:

My lads can understand more than they speak because the lingua franca is english in the house but I insist on throwing in the punjabi idioms and phrases to get them used to conversational Punjabi they feel embarassed that they don't know more vocab but I have gotten in english-punjabi koshs and conversational punjabi  practice cds . My Mum's great she's always challenging them to learn more ... They have a strong identification with Sikhi more so than their other grandparent's culture because they don't like the falseness of the behaviour and speech , just to flatter and preen in front of others . They like like plain talking and what you is what you get ... They've never had a problem picking up languages so I can't see them not being fluent soon .

What I have experienced in my life is that if sikhi becomes part of their natural being , you cannot shake it ... big one because he was traumatised by apnay when he was tiny has trust issues with other sikhs but he still hasn't stopped being normal with me , we have major discussions about spirituality.

Yes gursikhs will be of every hue and world culture , and in that will be our strength provided we make proper preps now and be welcoming and fully in sikh culture including martial arts

Do they speak more Punjabi or Portuguese, (since your husband is from Brazil?)

 

On 2/10/2017 at 3:34 PM, dallysingh101 said:

Wow, 6 years old and you have to talk about that stuff....

I don't think the touching was sexual by the boy (unless he is getting abused himself or acting from what he sees at home - vicarious learning), but your approach was smart. 

I've got a few mixed race kids in my family, but they seem a bit confused as to identity, what with their 'Sikh' <cough, cough> parent being totally apathetic (maybe even holding covert feelings of antipathy towards their roots due to past bad experiences). Can your kids talk Panjabi? Someone overheard one of my mixed-race nephews talking about feeling stupid because he couldn't talk to his granddad in Panjabi. When you have coconut parents, it sadly leaves the kids a bit adrift. 

People talk about 'love conquers all' and all that, but often the kids from certain unions (when not given a strong identity) are put in a very sorry place. They usually end up either 'white' or converting to some other religion or generally irreligious. Unless the other partner is Muslim - them lot almost invariably seem to ensure the kids have a Muslim identity. At least the kids perceived themselves as Muslim. Our lot are pretty tough to get assimilated into when you're an outsider. 

In future we might see a wave of the offspring of mixed unions exploring their Sikh roots, I hope we are ready and capable of integrating them into our community by then. 

 

By the way, blokes can tease girls too, when they know they like them. You know, play dumb to what's going on. 

If people of 2 religions marry then the person whose religion is more dominant in the house usually becomes the religion of the kids. (A hypothetical example of this is if a Easter-Christmas Christian were to marry an Orthodox Heredi Jew, then the kids for their childhood raising purposes will be raised Jewish, maybe even more othodox then the father himself.) In terms of Sikhi if a Sunday-Day Sikh were to marry another faith, the child will belong to the other faith, but if someone becomes a really Rehitvale Gursikh who does Nitnem, Amritvela, Seva, but for some reason or another married a non-Sikh, then the kids will pick that-up, (this is a rare thing, but it does happen).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

If people of 2 religions marry then the person whose religion is more dominant in the house usually becomes the religion of the kids. (A hypothetical example of this is if a Easter-Christmas Christian were to marry an Orthodox Heredi Jew, then the kids for their childhood raising purposes will be raised Jewish, maybe even more othodox then the father himself.) In terms of Sikhi if a Sunday-Day Sikh were to marry another faith, the child will belong to the other faith, but if someone becomes a really Rehitvale Gursikh who does Nitnem, Amritvela, Seva, but for some reason or another married a non-Sikh, then the kids will pick that-up, (this is a rare thing, but it does happen).

From what I've seen (including in my family) is that it is not uncommon for both parents in such situations to be indifferent to their respective religions/heritage. What then appears to happen is that uncles and aunts who do have a connection to their faith/heritage (from both the mother's and father's side) try and pass on the kids heritage to him/her - but often the parents are either low key, or overtly resistant to this. The kids can pick on this and start to devalue what they are being taught as well.

Language is a big issue - because we know from linguistic studies that the tongue sort of forms to stick to the phonemes (the individual sounds of a language) one is exposed to at a relatively young age - so if they are not exposed to and practicing the words/sounds of a particular language from young, there is a cut off point where the person struggles or finds it impossible to pronounce the sounds properly when older. So then, even when they want to learn the language when older - it becomes 10x harder for them. 

That being said, the resources and knowledge about language acquisition has mushroomed in recent years (including within our panth). So if anyone is truly dedicated to the idea of picking up the language - they are in a better position to do so than ever . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • WJKK WJKF bhenji, as long as you are in chardikala now, everything should be. Though I am not sure how much of your past should you relieve to the individual?
    • Anyone else notice where these emergent trends will end? 
    • I don't remember who told me perhaps it was my uncle but the main problem with many Sikhs in the military is that in general we are honest and not cut throat. Someone mentioned that an individual in the military had noticed this and thus he claimed that one Sikh in particular along with other Sikhs weren't savvy enough with politics to rise the ranks even though that particular individual more than deserved it. This is an important tactic even more so than being able to shoot a gun.  What I'm saying is your service is what yoy personally make it because there are rules and regulations in every western country and if something occurs that isn't just, you have the power to shed light on it.  I agree with not being manipulated but I don't think the solution is to not join the military at all nor do I think it would help change that mentality. The thing about serving in military in USA GB Aus CAN ECT is that there are international laws and the discretion of ranks and foot soldiers on how they will carry out missions. Look at Harjit Sajjan he's representative of how Canada, a country who helped USA in the wars, helped carry out certain operations while saving troop and civilian lives. You underestimate the power of an independent thinking sovereign individual. No banner can change that. I dislike this deal making culture. A while back I tried to have a rational discussion about Gurdas Man's new song. The individual I disagreed with trying to rile up feminazis in hopes they would spearhead the crusade against Mann. The writer wrote that Mann's song was somehow sexist because it portrayed the mom neglecting her kids and having substance abuse problem. Point is his plan to make a silent deal of give and take in hopes that his begging to feminazis would help him crusade against Mann failed horribly.  This is the same mentality Sikh coalition type of orgs have they think bending over to Islamophobia brigade will end up helping somehow. Similar to how Muslims are using Sikhs and BLM to white wash their own image it's at the expense of us and I would argue other people allied in the silent deal of supporting each other.  I may be wrong but I think we should be above this for the issues that are most important for us. Instead of using service as a bargaining chip military service should be independent as a means of protecting your home and further becoming an asset to the Panth. In that process individuals automatically become powerhouse for pushing and acting on our narrative.  This applies to any field really but since we are talking about military service only mentioned that.    I don't disagree with much of what you say but I think there is a fundamental flaw in assuming that military service translates into what you're saying bro      
    • “Members of our sect are strictly forbidden from hosting a reception party and accepting gifts from relatives and friends. There is no dowry. The bride does not take anything with her to the in-laws’ house. We solemnise marriages en masse, at a cost equivalent to Re 1.20, ”   How hard would it really be for Sikhs to do this? It's a sad day when even Ghadars ; (naamdhari) are more loyal to their Ghadari than some who consider themselves Sikhs and not Ghadars, to their Sikhi, but everything else was completely wrong from the Havan to a false Anand Karaj focused on Dalip Singh instead of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.