Guest jagsaw singh

Some Home Truths

149 posts in this topic

Re; the Ranjit Singh Boparan - Owner of Halal Chicken Factory thread on the News and Current Affairs page:

"He'll meet the same fate later in narakh"

This man and his family have already been finding out how his £200 Million is not enough to sheild him away from natural justice. Has a turnover of £3 Billion a year but what use is £3 billion when you have one son and that son is now in prison for his second 'leaving someone almost dead'  after previously being in jail for leaving a baby brain damaged.

 

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Do you remember my thread last year about Singhs skirting close to the edge of copyright infringements and how it won't be long before they start receiving court summons ?

Well, I must say Sainsburys' lawyers took their time with this one but the BBC today reports that its now the talk of the town :  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-38529780

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Re; The Moral Decline in Society thread on the main page:

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What are the reasons and causes for moral decline in society?

Lets use any society as an example....lets use our UK society: 100 years ago robbery and murder were commonplace on the streets of London. Now they are rare. 20 years ago peadophilia was considered so acceptable it was out in the open. Now it is not.  That is not a decline in morals.......It is an enhancement.

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Alcohol/drug abuse adictions increasing

60 years ago, our grandfathers in Punjab regularly took opium and other drugs. 20 years ago our weddings here in the UK were full of blind drunken fights. Now, you will never ever see a person drinking to excess at our wedding.  This is not a sign of alcohol culture getting worse. its a sign that things are actually so much better than they used to be.

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divorce/extra martial affairs increasing

Everything that is happening today also happened yesteryear.

 

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Gambling out of control

60 years ago our grandfathers used to gamble their family's wealth away playing cards under the pippal tree in the centre of the pend. Now it is rare. That is not a "decline". That is an enhancement.

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Soaring crime rates: Various types frauds/thefts ect

Victorian London, for example, was many hundreds of times more dangerous than it is now. Every generation always thinks crime was less yesteryear but that it very rarely the case.
 

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General distrust of one man against another. Youngsters not respecting elders. Kids behaving badly.

 

What I used to get up to as a kid with my mates in west London back in the day would get me locked up today.

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young women dressing half naked. Hanging outside clubs in the early hours drunk with no care for themselves. Complete loss of self respect. Having sexual relations before marriage. (please note this goes for males to) Not just women) before we get women complaing that why cant they act like a sl@pper if a man can 😩

ummm........:ghost:

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In addition. People have becime so materialistic. All they care about is wealth, cars and status

No worse today than it was yesteryear.

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. Instead if helping the poor, doing charitable work. There is no sence of community. We have lost good old community spirit. Instead we isolate ourselves and have lost love and compassion for one another. 

No. Actually, you'll find so many good young people in the UK and especially America they go out of their way to help others, fight for the poor and disenfranchised etc.

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Re; The "Police with shoes enter darbar sahib" thread on the main page:

http://files.sikhsangat.com/uploads/monthly_2017_01/FB_IMG_1485894202259.thumb.jpg.3a96eca1d58762d016b92ca93033fea5.jpg

Lets be clear about 2 things:

1) We need to stop having this inferiority complex about "fighting in our gurdwaras. It happens in every major faith group and none of the others make a song or dance about it or imagine it is the end of days because of it even though they, unlike us, have a place of worship concept that dictates those place be serene, quiet places whereas our concept of it is as a place where we gather, fully armed and prepare our bodies and minds for the art of war. Let me give you an example of how we keep crying and feeling embarrassed about the littlest of things while the Christians don't seem all that bothered about regular fisticuffs in their most holy of holy's.  The Church in Bethlehem where Jesus was born. There's 2 different Christian groups that control the Church and because the priests and religious leaders have regularly been having fist fights inside the crypt for the last 70 years they have had to give the keys to the ancient doors to a local Muslim family in order to keep the peace. So, each day, when its time to open the door, the different Christian groups have to go to the Muslim family - seperately and away from each other because all the priests start punching each other if they are within 2 feet of the other - and the Muslim opens the doors, and likewise locks them at night. 2 years ago, Jesus' crypt was opened and cleaned for the first time in 70 years. The motion to clean the crypt was passed 70 years ago but it took 70 years to actually go about doing it because each time they set a date previously the day turned into an all-out street fight with fists, feet, chairs and rocks between the priests. So, every single day, Christian priests in the most holy church of their religion, punch each other, kick each other, throw chairs and tables at each other and throw rocks and stones at each other. But when have you ever heard a Christian have an inferiority complex about it and say "oh my god....this is terrible....it's so embarrassing.....its making us look bad....what will the Hindus and Sikhs think about us?" :ehhh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shFA_H8e11E

2) The photograph on display in the Coventry Gurdwara is quite clearly wrong and those of you here seeking to justify it really need to self-examine just how far you have sunk down into the bottomless pit of cult of personality. Regardless of whether or not you have respect for Thakur Singh he is a man. No man, woman or child should have his photograph on display like that alongside Sri Guru Gobind Singh jee and the 4 sahibzade and Mata Gujri.

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This was a great thread. A really great thread.

I'm bringing it back up again because I recently listened to a few speeches of the great Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and other parcharaks from the Damdami Taksal. When questioned about their ban on Sikh females doing kirtan, wearing dastars etc I notice that they use the word 'kuri' in order to justify their stance on females. In their speeches, writings and websites etc they say the punjabi word for girl 'kuri' comes from the definition of koor, which means jhoot (falsehood) and dirt. :@

I'm not singling out Damdami Taksal here because on so many occassions I am equally as critical about parcharaks affiliated to AKJ, especially here in the UK, who rely on the ignorance and uneducated nature of the sangat to say and espouse things that have absolutely no basis in historical fact. I am hoping my contributions to the 'Punjabi Language' thread (above) will be enough for many of you to be able to respect the knowledge I have about the history of the Punjabi language so I wish to articulate this fact:

After Alexander the Great's men decided they wanted to go no further than Punjab and setlled there, Punjab went through a phase lasting 300 years whereby the Greeks ruled the Punjab and the Greek language made inroads not only into the psyche of political and critical thinking of Punjabis but also in terms of everyday speech. It is no coincidence then that while every nation and language on all sides of Punjab have a word for 'girl', such as ladki etc, that has its roots in the sub-continent, Punjabi is the only language that has a word for girl (kuri) that has its roots firmly thousands of miles away in Greece. The punjabi word for girl is exactly the same as the Greek word for girl : Kuri.  People, groups and parcharaks that want to justify their low opinion of females will always find a way of justifying it. As a rule, they rely on your ignorance and un-educated nature in order to get away with it.

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Re; the 'Sikh Gori Argues with Punjabi Bibian' thread on the main page:

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i saw this video the other day, 1st thing thatcame into my mind was....oh gawd not another eco-warrior!

Our 7th master, Sri Guru Har Rai ji was the world's foremost eco-warrior. We would do well to remember what he taught us and the whole world about the relationship between man, animals and nature.

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And when the police come, they're going to ask:

Police - "what's the problem?". 

Loud lady - "arrest them all, they're using Fairy Liquid"

Police - " 🤔😏, what do you think we are, the Ecover Squad or wat? " 

 

From the video, it looks as though it is the 'Punjabi bibian' threatening to involve the police regarding the issue of 'fairy liquid'. Not the Singhni.

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She clearly doesn't seem all there. And if she is, what is there to learn from the video? Zilch. Why circulate such a video?

3 points: Yes, she could have handled her point alot better, without making herself look emotionally and mentally out of control. Her point however, is a valid one, i.e. when a supermarket own label washing up liquid is not tested on animals why do we take to our Guru's abode a washing up liquid that is tested on animals. In other words, she is forcing us to think about what we do. She is forcing us to think about whether or not it is ethically correct for us to wash dishes in the langar hall - dishes that the sangat will eat langar from - with a product that many innocent animals will be killed for. Her point (which she makes very badly) is actually a VERY VERY valid one, i.e we are actually sullying our Guru and langar by doing things without thinking, even though we belong to the faith that broke free from mindless ritualness and embraced free thought and critical thinking.

 

 

Re; the 'Scary Demographics Change in Punjab' thread on the main page :

Every thing you guys have said on that thread...turn it around and imagine it was a white Englishman or a white Canadian saying it. They'd be saying it about YOU and YOUR FAMILY and they would be racist, ignorant and frightened of the future people for saying it.

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Sikhs fell from 61% share of punjab demography in 2001 to 57% in 2011 survey.

If the trend continues, the day is not far when sikhs will become a minority in their own state and hindutva brigade will have a field day

 

In a united Punjab we were just 14% of the population and during our glory days of the Khalsa Raj we were just 5 to 8% of the Population of the Punjab Kingdom.  Another stat: In a united Punjab we were just 20% of the population of our most holiest city: Amritsar. It is easy to be negative. But a Sikh should always look on the positive.

 

Clarification of something I said in my previous post before this one. As the Greek influence on Punjab and Punjabi occurred around 300BC we are of course talking about Classical Greek rather than Modern Greek. Therefore, when I say that Punjabi and Greek share the same word for the word girl (Kuri) I am of course talking about the Greek language that existed at that time. Since that time, the word Kuri has taken a slight variation in modern Greek  but of course none of that detracts from the facts that parcharaks that attempt to justify gender discrimination by equating the word kuri to dirt and falsehood are plain and simple wrong and lying.

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On 04/02/2017 at 3:13 PM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

This was a great thread. A really great thread.

I'm bringing it back up again because I recently listened to a few speeches of the great Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and other parcharaks from the Damdami Taksal. When questioned about their ban on Sikh females doing kirtan, wearing dastars etc I notice that they use the word 'kuri' in order to justify their stance on females. In their speeches, writings and websites etc they say the punjabi word for girl 'kuri' comes from the definition of koor, which means jhoot (falsehood) and dirt. :@

I'm not singling out Damdami Taksal here because on so many occassions I am equally as critical about parcharaks affiliated to AKJ, especially here in the UK, who rely on the ignorance and uneducated nature of the sangat to say and espouse things that have absolutely no basis in historical fact. I am hoping my contributions to the 'Punjabi Language' thread (above) will be enough for many of you to be able to respect the knowledge I have about the history of the Punjabi language so I wish to articulate this fact:

After Alexander the Great's men decided they wanted to go no further than Punjab and setlled there, Punjab went through a phase lasting 300 years whereby the Greeks ruled the Punjab and the Greek language made inroads not only into the psyche of political and critical thinking of Punjabis but also in terms of everyday speech. It is no coincidence then that while every nation and language on all sides of Punjab have a word for 'girl', such as ladki etc, that has its roots in the sub-continent, Punjabi is the only language that has a word for girl (kuri) that has its roots firmly thousands of miles away in Greece. The punjabi word for girl is exactly the same as the Greek word for girl : Kuri.  People, groups and parcharaks that want to justify their low opinion of females will always find a way of justifying it. As a rule, they rely on your ignorance and un-educated nature in order to get away with it.

How many Greeks/Macedonians did settle in Punjab.

They had their a*** handed to them in Multan and a lot of the Greek/Macedonians wanted go back.

We hear a lot of contradictory stuff that does not make sense.

On one hand we hear that he defeated Porus and Porus went on all fours whilst Alexander used him as a footstool.

In other accounts, apparently Porus defeated Alexander.

Then we hear that Alexander was warned not to venture further east because of even bigger kingdoms and armies in the Gangetic plains.

Punjab always seems to be Greek or Persian or Arab or Turkish or some other culture. Have we anything original about ourselves. Do we even influence anyone else? 

Are there are any Punjabi words that originate in Punjab that have made their way into Persian or Arabic or Greek?

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Punjab always seems to be Greek or Persian or Arab or Turkish or some other culture. Have we anything original about ourselves. Do we even influence anyone else? 

Best thing said on this forum in a long while. 

I tell you, some of us Sikh Panjabis are a bunch of insecure w**kers, who've internalised such a low opinion of themselves in relation to certain other communities, that they have wet dreams of these foreigners' blood flowing in their veins. 

What clowns. 

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I want to respond to a post in a thread on the main site, but the buggy formatting rules prevent me from doing so. The post in question mentions a giani / kathavacak saying, I'm assuming, on stage that the Christian faith only has one martyr. It's the equivalent of stating that the only martyrs in the Sikh faith are the two Guru Sahibs who gave shaheedi, conveniently ignoring the thousands of others we venerate daily during the Ardaas. Anyone who's briefly flicked through a book on Christianity will know that's patently false. There's hordes of Christian martyrs throughout their history. It's that kind of misinformation that will create doubts in the mind of any Sikh who has even an iota of knowledge of history and critical thinking. The average aunty and uncle might believe that to be true, but anyone else will come away thinking, "If giani is wrong about something like that, what else does he not know?" You can't sit on a stage, get caught up in the moment, and add your own masale to make any such arguments ring true. Soon enough people will start calling that stuff out, or even worse, will just walk away thinking the sangat is being lied to. 

Edited by MisterrSingh
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How many Greeks/Macedonians did settle in Punjab.

After Alexander left, Eudemus ruled vast tracts of Punjab north of the Beas (everything that includes Amritsar and Lahore today) and after him Peithon (another Greek general) ruled Punjab until 316bc. Another Greek, Sophytes, also established another independent nation within Punjab and crowned himself the Prince of
 

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They had their a*** handed to them in Multan and a lot of the Greek/Macedonians wanted go back.

 

No. You need to brush up on your motherland's history. Alexander got his a*s kicked in Multan after his men abandoned him on the banks of the Beas, halfway between Jalandhar and Amritsar, and Alexander was on his way home (through Multan).

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Punjab always seems to be Greek or Persian or Arab or Turkish or some other culture. Have we anything original about ourselves. Do we even influence anyone else?

 

We have influenced EVERYBODY around us in the sub-continent. Punjabi is the mother of Hindi, Urdu and a plethora of their north Indian languages. Contrary to what some believe it is actually Punjabi that came before Sanskrit. Not the other way around. For Prakit.....the ancient 'language of the rural folk' as prescribed in the Rig Vedas in reference to the area we know as Punjab, is none other than Punjabi, and that came before Sanskrit.

Hope that clears up any queries you had Ranjeet. Don't be afraid to ask if you have any other questions.

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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

that they have wet dreams of these foreigners' blood flowing in their veins.

What's wrong with knowing where our ancestors came from? Unless we were Adivasi our ancestors probably came somewhere else than the Indian subcontinent. As long as it doesn't actually lead to discrimination; then it's all good to know where our ancestors came from.

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28 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

What's wrong with knowing where our ancestors came from? Unless we were Adivasi our ancestors probably came somewhere else than the Indian subcontinent. As long as it doesn't actually lead to discrimination; then it's all good to know where our ancestors came from.

Punjab was ruled by the British Raj for almost a century. I am certain that there are English words that are in the Punjabi vocabulary.

I am sure we have British ancestry. 

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The Hebrew word for 'paradise' (relating to the Bible's Garden of Eden) is a word familiar to Punjabis: pardes. Of course, it went through many forms such as Greek, Old Iranian, and Assyrian. It's a word I've heard mentioned most of my life (in various songs or conversations), so to learn that its modern Punjabi usage has connotations relating to a timeless, heavenly place, is quite amusing.

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1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Punjab was ruled by the British Raj for almost a century. I am certain that there are English words that are in the Punjabi vocabulary.

I am sure we have British ancestry. 

You seem to be forgetting the fact that, "Satguru Nanak Pargateya", so all the post 1469 Punjab conquerors won't likely be in Punjabi genes. The Sikh religion also gave the Punjabis the will to stand-up to outside oppression. Also I never mentioned literature or grammer as a form of genetic similarity. Who stood-up to the Mughals since the reign of Babur? Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji! (Everything before 1469 still stands, and Punjabis are probably a mix og every conqueror pre-1469.

 

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1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

You seem to be forgetting the fact that, "Satguru Nanak Pargateya", so all the post 1469 Punjab conquerors won't likely be in Punjabi genes. The Sikh religion also gave the Punjabis the will to stand-up to outside oppression. Also I never mentioned literature or grammer as a form of genetic similarity. Who stood-up to the Mughals since the reign of Babur? Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji! (Everything before 1469 still stands, and Punjabis are probably a mix og every conqueror pre-1469.

 

I reckon we influenced their cuisine and there is quite a lot of similarity in between the two cultures attitudes to family honour and loyalty, extended family, sense of humour.

Maybe it's me but after Alexander died there seemed to be cooling of the whole bro-mance scene ...could this be conservative hetero attitude from Punjab?

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Maybe it's me but after Alexander died there seemed to be cooling of the whole bro-mance scene ...could this be conservative hetero attitude from Punjab?

Have you not scene the way apnay walk around smiling and holding hands like proper gaylords in Panjab???

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On 2/6/2017 at 8:56 PM, jkvlondon said:

I reckon we influenced their cuisine and there is quite a lot of similarity in between the two cultures attitudes to family honour and loyalty, extended family, sense of humour.

Maybe it's me but after Alexander died there seemed to be cooling of the whole bro-mance scene ...could this be conservative hetero attitude from Punjab?

Our Pre-Sikh ancestors were probably so liberal that they make Badal look like some Mahapurukh. Punjab as a whole only became conservative once the Sikh Empire had fell; (if you looked at their Keskis they look like they could be taken off very easily by the enemy). Also many Spartans, (who were Ksychatrias of Greece), wouldn't even know who their families were; if you compared that to Hindu Ksychatria clans then they'd probably know their relatives in and out. Also some of the stuff Subcontinental people would be considered gay in the West.

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56 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Have you not scene the way apnay walk around smiling and holding hands like proper gaylords in Panjab???

Does that kind of stuff still go on over there?

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31 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Does that kind of stuff still go on over there?

I'm actually more worried about the way I wrote 'scene' instead of 'seen' right now...... dementia cometh! lol

But yeah, as far as I'm aware they still do this with gay abandon. 

To the unfamiliar eye it looks like they are off to find somewhere quiet for some gay shenanigans. 

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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

I'm actually more worried about the way I wrote 'scene' instead of 'seen' right now...... dementia cometh! lol

But yeah, as far as I'm aware they still do this with gay abandon. 

To the unfamiliar eye it looks like they are off to find somewhere quiet for some gay shenanigans. 

"Gay abandon." That's exactly what it is, lol.

I reckon there's a considerable number of bisexuals back home, but there's none of that labelling that goes in the West. They seem to have a very fluid perception of such things. 

The things that people get-up to over there that are never mentioned... you'd be surprised. And it's not just limited to the guys. Oh no, not at all. It all goes down in a hush-hush manner. 

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3 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

"Gay abandon." That's exactly what it is, lol.

I reckon there's a considerable number of bisexuals back home, but there's none of that labelling that goes in the West. They seem to have a very fluid perception of such things. 

The things that people get-up to over there that are never mentioned... you'd be surprised. And it's not just limited to the guys. Oh no, not at all. It all goes down in a hush-hush manner. 

My first ever job, many decades ago was in a macho as hell Panjabi warehouse. Those guys there weren't remotely ashamed to tell it like it was in the villages of back home regarding homosexuality. And they were all married with kids. To them it was all acceptable. 

I think our communities approach is to 'hear no evil, see no evil'. It's like an unwritten rule to let things be as long as they don't emerge about the surface conservatism we have going on. 

Edited by dallysingh101
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On 2/6/2017 at 10:31 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

What's wrong with knowing where our ancestors came from? Unless we were Adivasi our ancestors probably came somewhere else than the Indian subcontinent. As long as it doesn't actually lead to discrimination; then it's all good to know where our ancestors came from.

You know what the problem is:

 

That messing around in this territory has been the number one cause of disunity since Anglos introduced all these dubious theories of Aryan invasions and Scythians and what not. Our lot are too egotistical not to twist things into some stupid caste system from it all. Better to emphasise what we have in common as Sikhs instead, and promote Sikh values instead of divisive, outsider racialised theories.  

Edited by dallysingh101

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35 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

You know what the problem is:

 

That messing around in this territory has been the number one cause of disunity since Anglos introduced all these dubious theories of Aryan invasions and Scythians and what not. Our lot are too egotistical not to twist things into some stupid caste system from it all. Better to emphasise what we have in common as Sikhs instead, and promote Sikh values instead of divisive, outsider racialised theories.  

If Punjab was never invaded by anyone; that land would be called today Madra Desha; from the ancient times. Also Punjabis don't bow to Ksychatrias and Brahmins; so I highly doubt they actually believe in the caste system; (Jaats are equal to Shudras according to it), also even Guru Sahib knew who his physical ancestors were; even though he didn't really recommend too much expansion on it, (Ram from Ramayana), do you believe most Punjabis are somehow Adivasi; cause they don't look Adivasi to me. (They are the original Subcontinentals).

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2 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

If Punjab was never invaded by anyone; that land would be called today Madra Desha; from the ancient times. Also Punjabis don't bow to Ksychatrias and Brahmins; so I highly doubt they actually believe in the caste system; (Jaats are equal to Shudras according to it), also even Guru Sahib knew who his physical ancestors were; even though he didn't really recommend too much expansion on it, (Ram from Ramayana), do you believe most Punjabis are somehow Adivasi; cause they don't look Adivasi to me. (They are the original Subcontinentals).

Neither the Brahmins or the kshtriyas had any bearing on Punjab. When it was called Sapta Sindhu it was known to disregard the Indian caste system. When it was known by its Greek name of Pento Potamia Greek travellers wrote how the people there do not adhere to India's traditional caste system. When the great Chinese traveller Hsuan Tsangs wrote of his travels in Punjab he wrote how the people there (in Punjab) have their own system of heirarchy and pay no heed to heed to the 'Indian' system. That is why, in the whole of the sub-continent, Punjab has always been the one place where 'Brahmins' have always hardly existed. In Alexander the Great's famous letter home to his mother in Greece he remarks how the Punjab is unlike any place he or his men have ever set foot in. He said the people there have such an egalitarian spirit that the women work the fields alongside the men. And lets end on what the actual Bhuddha himself said about Punjab. He said the people of that land are extremely free-spirited, fond of free speech and free thought and thus no one organized system of religion could flourish there for too long. 

The moral of the story is : You can't use India's caste system, India's history, India's culture as examples of anything when it comes to Punjab. Punjab has a history and culture of its own. A far richer and unique system. Just because the Greeks ruled over us it doesn't make us Greek. Just because the Mughals ruled over us it doesn't make us Mughals. Just because the British ruled over us it doesn't make us British. Just because India rules over us it doesn't make us Indian. Always remember that WE also ruled over OURSELVES and WE ARE WE !

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1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Also Punjabis don't bow to Ksychatrias and Brahmins; so I highly doubt they actually believe in the caste system;

What has happened is that the majority of apnay have jettisoned the traditional Indic caste system of varna, and replaced with a new one they've created themselves.

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      Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh, ji 1stly, I see a clear difference between amritdharis and hindus because our guru sahib jis have denied certain hindu practices (and if it ever felt like I have said there is no difference in the past then I am sorry for my mistake). 2ndly I agree with sikhs not wearing hindu threads. What I was saying in my post was that I have no objection with strangers in real life because who am I to advise a stranger since I don't know anything about them. Hindu threads are not gurmat.. practices that our guru sahib jis have not taken part of is not seen as part of sikhi to me. Sorry for the misunderstanding Singh ji.. There are a lot of things I've changed my mind on due to the cycle of learning. Another reason why I choose to not advise people to practice anything other than patth.  bhull chuk maaf kijye Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh
    • Bit of a leap your making my friend by implicitly saying all Hindus see shiva as a devta as 'god' Hindu philosophy has many congruent philosophical threads as sikhi. One of which is that there are many avatars or more accurately characteristics of Ongkaar. The term Vahiguroo is used in the Bhagat bani and to reduce it to a definable 'object'  is no different than idolatry ..  The dominant practices  of Hinduism as well as Islam is what was criticised and rejected.. Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught us to transcend narrow ideas, the foolishness in creating and trying to own the truth.. 
    • By saying the above she is trying to obscure the clear difference between Sikhs and Hindus.  If a person wants to worship the Gurus then worship the Gurus as they taught.  Instead these Hindus are worshipping in their manmat way.  Saying Vaheguru before an idol as a form of worship is no different for when Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji tells Hindus not to worship idols by saying a devi or devta name.  Vaheguru description and form of worship is given in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  If Hindus want to worship by saying Vaheguru then follow Gurbani instructions.  Gurbani uses the name shiva to describe an attribute of Vaheguru.  But Hindus are worshipping Shiva the devta who came down went against Vaheguru Hukam and died.  By saying vaheguru before a shivling the Hindus are calling shiva thee Vaheguru.  They are being clever by taking gullible people to worship a shivling of Shiva.   Sikhs do not wear Hindu threads.  These threads have some sort of manmat behind them.  This poster does not clearly say she objects to Sikhs wearing these threads because she thinks according to Gurmat wearing a thread is right.  Now in this topic she is going on about how she does not tell others what to do.  She is a bold face liar because anyone can see her objections to Sikhs eating meat on a different topic.  Also she is trying to give merit to wearing threads by saying a lot of people do it.  Again another Hindu fable to get others to follow them to reincarnation.  Sikhs will always have a problem with the Hindu thread because it creates some to be more deserving of Gods worship because they were born in a certain family than another who was born to a so called lower family lineage.  Some threads are worn to keep away evil spirits which is also against the Sikhs teaching.