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Some Home Truths


Guest jagsaw singh
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43 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Im not too familiar with the workings of SAS, although I'm aware they perform admirable seva. I was just wondering, whenever SAS do whatever it is to retrieve these girls, do they make a distinction between a vulnerable girl from an unstable familial situation who was manipulated and groomed, and on the other end of the spectrum a brazen thrill seeker who bit off more than she could chew, and ended up in dire straits due to her own hubris? Or do they treat them all with the same touch? Is there an aftercare policy in place? 

well the bibi above had mentioned she was given counselling by the police and social services but it didn't help as much as talking to apne under SAS umbrella. Veer ji has mentioned there is definitely a spectrum , both in the types of girls  and their reactions to being rescued  (some are violent towards him because they are so brainwashed and under the influence of drugs) so he tailors his approach

 

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8 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

well the bibi above had mentioned she was given counselling by the police and social services but it didn't help as much as talking to apne under SAS umbrella. Veer ji has mentioned there is definitely a spectrum , both in the types of girls  and their reactions to being rescued  (some are violent towards him because they are so brainwashed and under the influence of drugs) so he tailors his approach

 

That's good to hear. The reason I asked the question was due to the thought of how each of these situations is incredibly unique despite the desired end result being the same. I'd like to think those girls who have been raised in a home that is lax on discipline and certain positive Punjabi cultural norms, should be made aware that those undertaking this seva are putting a lot on the line to extricate them from a situation that is mostly self-inflicted. I'd hate to think the naive Sikh girl who is preyed upon by opportunists is treated the same as the Sikh girl who escapes to uni in the hope of sleeping with as many guys she can get her hands on. There's a marked difference between the two, and I'd hope the situational approach from SAS reflects that difference. That's not to say I'd expect SAS to wag their finger in disapproval at those girls, especially during a traumatic period of time regardless of blame, but ultimately considering the service being provided for these girls and their families, I would think SAS are well within their rights to impress the need for certain religious values to prevent any future misshaps. 

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh

Well now. If anyone ever wanted proof of why other communities paint we Sikhs as simple people incapable of intellectual thinking, the last 2 pages of this thread are it. This is what we've learned about ourselves from the second half of page 2 to here:

1) Ignore and forget the fact that our 7th Guru (Sri Guru Har Rai Ji) was the world's foremost and greatest 'eco'warrior' and start labelling others as 'ecowarriors' as a term of insult. And then start talking continously about gay men.

2) Just ignore and pretend that you're not being told that animals are killed in order to make 'Fairy-Liquid' whilst there are some supermarket own label ones out there that animals did not die for. Just ignore the fact that langar in the gurdwara is being served in dishes washed with the dead animal product and instead just start abusing the lady that should have made you think why we make that decision to take the dead animal one to the Gurdwara like un-padhs incapable of thinking. And then start talking continously about gay men. 

 

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Guest Jacfsing2
On 2/10/2017 at 5:07 PM, jkvlondon said:

My lads can understand more than they speak because the lingua franca is english in the house but I insist on throwing in the punjabi idioms and phrases to get them used to conversational Punjabi they feel embarassed that they don't know more vocab but I have gotten in english-punjabi koshs and conversational punjabi  practice cds . My Mum's great she's always challenging them to learn more ... They have a strong identification with Sikhi more so than their other grandparent's culture because they don't like the falseness of the behaviour and speech , just to flatter and preen in front of others . They like like plain talking and what you is what you get ... They've never had a problem picking up languages so I can't see them not being fluent soon .

What I have experienced in my life is that if sikhi becomes part of their natural being , you cannot shake it ... big one because he was traumatised by apnay when he was tiny has trust issues with other sikhs but he still hasn't stopped being normal with me , we have major discussions about spirituality.

Yes gursikhs will be of every hue and world culture , and in that will be our strength provided we make proper preps now and be welcoming and fully in sikh culture including martial arts

Do they speak more Punjabi or Portuguese, (since your husband is from Brazil?)

 

On 2/10/2017 at 3:34 PM, dallysingh101 said:

Wow, 6 years old and you have to talk about that stuff....

I don't think the touching was sexual by the boy (unless he is getting abused himself or acting from what he sees at home - vicarious learning), but your approach was smart. 

I've got a few mixed race kids in my family, but they seem a bit confused as to identity, what with their 'Sikh' <cough, cough> parent being totally apathetic (maybe even holding covert feelings of antipathy towards their roots due to past bad experiences). Can your kids talk Panjabi? Someone overheard one of my mixed-race nephews talking about feeling stupid because he couldn't talk to his granddad in Panjabi. When you have coconut parents, it sadly leaves the kids a bit adrift. 

People talk about 'love conquers all' and all that, but often the kids from certain unions (when not given a strong identity) are put in a very sorry place. They usually end up either 'white' or converting to some other religion or generally irreligious. Unless the other partner is Muslim - them lot almost invariably seem to ensure the kids have a Muslim identity. At least the kids perceived themselves as Muslim. Our lot are pretty tough to get assimilated into when you're an outsider. 

In future we might see a wave of the offspring of mixed unions exploring their Sikh roots, I hope we are ready and capable of integrating them into our community by then. 

 

By the way, blokes can tease girls too, when they know they like them. You know, play dumb to what's going on. 

If people of 2 religions marry then the person whose religion is more dominant in the house usually becomes the religion of the kids. (A hypothetical example of this is if a Easter-Christmas Christian were to marry an Orthodox Heredi Jew, then the kids for their childhood raising purposes will be raised Jewish, maybe even more othodox then the father himself.) In terms of Sikhi if a Sunday-Day Sikh were to marry another faith, the child will belong to the other faith, but if someone becomes a really Rehitvale Gursikh who does Nitnem, Amritvela, Seva, but for some reason or another married a non-Sikh, then the kids will pick that-up, (this is a rare thing, but it does happen).

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If people of 2 religions marry then the person whose religion is more dominant in the house usually becomes the religion of the kids. (A hypothetical example of this is if a Easter-Christmas Christian were to marry an Orthodox Heredi Jew, then the kids for their childhood raising purposes will be raised Jewish, maybe even more othodox then the father himself.) In terms of Sikhi if a Sunday-Day Sikh were to marry another faith, the child will belong to the other faith, but if someone becomes a really Rehitvale Gursikh who does Nitnem, Amritvela, Seva, but for some reason or another married a non-Sikh, then the kids will pick that-up, (this is a rare thing, but it does happen).

From what I've seen (including in my family) is that it is not uncommon for both parents in such situations to be indifferent to their respective religions/heritage. What then appears to happen is that uncles and aunts who do have a connection to their faith/heritage (from both the mother's and father's side) try and pass on the kids heritage to him/her - but often the parents are either low key, or overtly resistant to this. The kids can pick on this and start to devalue what they are being taught as well.

Language is a big issue - because we know from linguistic studies that the tongue sort of forms to stick to the phonemes (the individual sounds of a language) one is exposed to at a relatively young age - so if they are not exposed to and practicing the words/sounds of a particular language from young, there is a cut off point where the person struggles or finds it impossible to pronounce the sounds properly when older. So then, even when they want to learn the language when older - it becomes 10x harder for them. 

That being said, the resources and knowledge about language acquisition has mushroomed in recent years (including within our panth). So if anyone is truly dedicated to the idea of picking up the language - they are in a better position to do so than ever . 

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Guest Jacfsing2
23 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

From what I've seen (including in my family) is that it is not uncommon for both parents in such situations to be indifferent to their respective religions/heritage. What then appears to happen is that uncles and aunts who do have a connection to their faith/heritage (from both the mother's and father's side) try and pass on the kids heritage to him/her - but often the parents are either low key, or overtly resistant to this. The kids can pick on this and start to devalue what they are being taught as well.

Language is a big issue - because we know from linguistic studies that the tongue sort of forms to stick to the phonemes (the individual sounds of a language) one is exposed to at a relatively young age - so if they are not exposed to and practicing the words/sounds of a particular language from young, there is a cut off point where the person struggles or finds it impossible to pronounce the sounds properly when older. So then, even when they want to learn the language when older - it becomes 10x harder for them. 

That being said, the resources and knowledge about language acquisition has mushroomed in recent years (including within our panth). So if anyone is truly dedicated to the idea of picking up the language - they are in a better position to do so than ever . 

I wouldn't want the true Gurus path to just be lost to someone I truly cared about either, in the same way a Christian or Muslim wouldn't want their Pakhandi Babas ways to die out either to someone they fake loved either. Hopefully those youth could be greater than I could imagine.

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On 04/02/2017 at 7:13 AM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

This was a great thread. A really great thread.

I'm bringing it back up again because I recently listened to a few speeches of the great Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and other parcharaks from the Damdami Taksal. When questioned about their ban on Sikh females doing kirtan, wearing dastars etc I notice that they use the word 'kuri' in order to justify their stance on females. In their speeches, writings and websites etc they say the punjabi word for girl 'kuri' comes from the definition of koor, which means jhoot (falsehood) and dirt. :@

I'm not singling out Damdami Taksal here because on so many occassions I am equally as critical about parcharaks affiliated to AKJ, especially here in the UK, who rely on the ignorance and uneducated nature of the sangat to say and espouse things that have absolutely no basis in historical fact. I am hoping my contributions to the 'Punjabi Language' thread (above) will be enough for many of you to be able to respect the knowledge I have about the history of the Punjabi language so I wish to articulate this fact:

Sant ji used the word bibi to answer whether women can do certain seva.  In that video sant ji says bibi can't do punj pyare seva but let us know if they are being stopped from doing any other seva as they are allowed.

Present the video you are refering too.

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2 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Do they speak more Punjabi or Portuguese, (since your husband is from Brazil?)

 

If people of 2 religions marry then the person whose religion is more dominant in the house usually becomes the religion of the kids. (A hypothetical example of this is if a Easter-Christmas Christian were to marry an Orthodox Heredi Jew, then the kids for their childhood raising purposes will be raised Jewish, maybe even more othodox then the father himself.) In terms of Sikhi if a Sunday-Day Sikh were to marry another faith, the child will belong to the other faith, but if someone becomes a really Rehitvale Gursikh who does Nitnem, Amritvela, Seva, but for some reason or another married a non-Sikh, then the kids will pick that-up, (this is a rare thing, but it does happen).

My lot speak more Punjabi than Portuguese , what little portuguese they have is learnt from myself as their Dad wasn't bothered and I knew I was getting the blame for their lack of understanding. Eldest studied Mandarin because he disliked French so much , twins studied Spanish at school.  I have schoolgirl German, French and Spanish  but can understand most romance languages because I use compare and contrast to link vocab across languages .

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
2 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Sant ji used the word bibi to answer whether women can do certain seva.  In that video sant ji says bibi can't do punj pyare seva but let us know if they are being stopped from doing any other seva as they are allowed.

Present the video you are refering too.

I said " In their speeches, writings and websites etc". I also specified how "they" refers to Damdami Taksal. Surely then, you'd be better off going onto Damdami websites, forums and reading their literature instead of asking someone for a non-existent imaginary video whose existence you yourself have made up in your head because nobody else has even mentioned one.

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