Jump to content

Sikhism On Vegan ?


thenormalguy
 Share

Recommended Posts

44 minutes ago, Singhni MiriPiri said:

Humans have the intelligence to understand right and wrong, unlike animals.

I agree humans do indeed have the intelligence to understand right and wrong but interpretations of right and wrong are not black and white. That’s why we have courts, judiciary committees, ombudsman, HR departments and debating platforms.

 

Quote

But why are you using a weak animal like a goat, why not kill a fierce animal like a lion? Probably because you would not survive. 

Using a lion for Jhatka would be counterproductive and negate the entire point of Jhatka.

 

Quote

Having more intelligence than an animal or having the highest Joon, does not justify why it is ok to kill a goat.

I did not say having more intelligence or a higher Joon justified why it is ok to Jhatka a goat, that comment was simply a rebuttal to a single point of yours not the crux of my whole argument.

 

Quote

But since you believe they are not on the same level, what is the point of trying to experience the feelings of murdering a goat or gaining more compassion through this process if you believe they are not comparable to a human?

That’s exactly the point of it. A goat is not even equal to us but killing one still prompts an emotional response so one has to be prepared to what emotional response will be evoked when killing humans.

 

Quote

Your compassion for animals is limited so you would not fully grasp all the challenges a warrior experiences. Why is it only important experiencing the pain given to another being, why not also experience the feelings of receiving the pain? That is another aspect of being a warrior too or is that too painful? You should learn the pain that is given to the goat.

Inflicting pain on oneself is not a prerequisite to being a warrior nor is it essential to a warrior lifestyle. In fact this would be highly detrimental to the physical and mental health of a warrior.  A warrior becomes a warrior knowing full well the risk of the pain that may be inflicted but that doesn’t mean they should regularly inflict pain on themselves for the sole purpose of experiencing pain. The same way a surgeon knows he may kill someone on his operating table one day and the same way a fire-fighter knows he may get burned, possibly to death but neither kill anyone or burn themselves for those sole purposes alone respectively.

 

Quote

You seem to think the pain experienced by the goat is unimportant.

Actually the goats feel very little pain as the head is severed almost instantaneously. There is no where for pain signals to go.

 

Quote

You think killing goats is propagating Dharam? That is actually spreading more violence and cruelty in the world. There is nothing pure in that action and it is unjust.

For the love of God, stop twisting my words. Where did I say killing goats is propagating Dharam??? I said it indirectly helps in propagating Dharam. But sorry I should have been clearer when I made the original comment, I should have said doing Jhatka not “killing” a goat indirectly helps propagate Dharam because straight up killing and Jhatka are two completely different things.


I have tried to explain using logic and I have provided many rational and logical arguments. You have provided nothing but emotions for the poor old chatanga.

Better get ready to make the naaraa "Jhatka Zindabaad" parvaan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

I agree humans do indeed have the intelligence to understand right and wrong but interpretations of right and wrong are not black and white. That’s why we have courts, judiciary committees, ombudsman, HR departments and debating platforms.

 

 

 

Using a lion for Jhatka would be counterproductive and negate the entire point of Jhatka.

 

I did not say having more intelligence or a higher Joon justified why it is ok to Jhatka a goat, that comment was simply a rebuttal to a single point of yours not the crux of my whole argument.

 

That’s exactly the point of it. A goat is not even equal to us but killing one still prompts an emotional response so one has to be prepared to what emotional response will be evoked when killing humans.

 

Inflicting pain on oneself is not a prerequisite to being a warrior nor is it essential to a warrior lifestyle. In fact this would be highly detrimental to the physical and mental health of a warrior.  A warrior becomes a warrior knowing full well the risk of the pain that may be inflicted but that doesn’t mean they should regularly inflict pain on themselves for the sole purpose of experiencing pain. The same way a surgeon knows he may kill someone on his operating table one day and the same way a fire-fighter knows he may get burned, possibly to death but neither kill anyone or burn themselves for those sole purposes alone respectively.

 

 

 

Actually the goats feel very little pain as the head is severed almost instantaneously. There is no where for pain signals to go.

 

For the love of God, stop twisting my words. Where did I say killing goats is propagating Dharam??? I said it indirectly helps in propagating Dharam. But sorry I should have been clearer when I made the original comment, I should have said doing Jhatka not “killing” a goat indirectly helps propagate Dharam because straight up killing and Jhatka are two completely different things.


I have tried to explain using logic and I have provided many rational and logical arguments. You have provided nothing but emotions for the poor old chatanga.

Better get ready to make the naaraa "Jhatka Zindabaad" parvaan.

Wow. "Poor old chatanga"?! Seems like you are now devoid of compassion.

Call it what you like but you are still a senseless murderer to me. And your actions are equivalent to a Muslim.

Anyway, we have our own opinions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest honest dave
11 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

 

 

 

 

Using a lion for Jhatka would be counterproductive and negate the entire point of Jhatka.

 

 

 

Could you please explain?

 

 

 

also in reply to singhni and preeet, Satgur Gobind Singhji and his singhs hunted. Doesn't Rattan singhs granth say when guru sahib entered banda bahadurs home/place of stay he told the singhs to jhatka the goats and make food?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/06/2016 at 2:41 PM, thenormalguy said:

well as i mentioned above milk is for calf's so i still do not want to drink it whether dairy conditions have improved or not even if it is a gursikhi farm as they will still have to impregnate cows to get the milk which is still unethical

what i do not understand is gurugranth shaib ji says in some angs http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_Granth_Sahib_on_meat

that we should not eat meat..

i get a little discomfort when i see nothing about dairy in guru granth sahib ji

as cows are mammals they only produce milk when they are pregnant and so i think any one can agree that milk is for kids and cow milk is for calfs .. so why didn't guru ji told us not to drink it when he did so for meat

In traditional sikh model of dairy farm , the owners did much sewa of the expectant cow and then when the calf is born they prepare enriching foods to feed her and keep her with her calf so not the inhumane mess you see in videos , small scale , natural, compassionate .  In that situation , the ethics are not being overthrown for milk. The western model is treating the cows like machines and killing them in the day to day grind of milking machines , pregnancies, kidnapped calves, after 3 years they are deemed exhausted and then herded to the slaughterhouses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 27/06/2016 at 8:21 PM, sikhni777 said:

Cheese is made by placing a lot of salt on yoghurt draining the water out and letting it mature. I doubt whether they put egg in it.

rennet which is used to seperate curds and whey can be either vegetarian eg. lemon juice or vinegar ...or more usually they use the waste product of meat industry of stomach secretions of cows and calves this is called rennet . That is why it important to read if the cheese you use is vegetarian or not . Not just this but sometimes they use egg lyszomes to create a vegetarian cheese . I know the only eggs I know growing in the fields are eggplants , chalo gorian diya navian reesan.   Parmesan which is veggie has egg lyszomes and therefore pesto which uses parmesan could in theory contain eggs ....so double check you pesto or make your own on the fly.
fluffy cakes ?? ok all same ingredients are used except eggs , slightly add a little more liquid like the volume of the missing eggs and then add a heaped tablespoon of cornstarch/cornflour ...tada ...   
make your own baking powder two ingredients: cream of tartar and bicarbonate of soda (aluminium free)   in the ratio of 2:1 e.g. 3 tsp baking powder = 2 cream of tartar to 1 tsp bicarb ...my lads invoked serious cake envy against the eggy cake bakers at school including the teachers . tip not too much baking powder otherwise you will get the rise and then the flop

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 03/09/2016 at 0:02 PM, Guest honest dave said:

also in reply to singhni and preeet, Satgur Gobind Singhji and his singhs hunted. Doesn't Rattan singhs granth say when guru sahib entered banda bahadurs home/place of stay he told the singhs to jhatka the goats and make food?

8

Guru Granth Sahib Jee is direct from Guru Sahib and has spoken against meat. Historians are not above Guru Sahib and most likely twist things to suit their weak and evil needs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Singhni MiriPiri said:

Guru Granth Sahib Jee is direct from Guru Sahib and has spoken against meat. Historians are not above Guru Sahib and most likely twist things to suit their weak and evil needs. 

Guru Pita ji only said jhatka is permissible in famine/war situation when all other food is unavailable , otherwise he would not have stipulated sarbloh bibek to keep his children (us) healthy  in the absence of dairy and regular food.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sarbloh bibek is more to do with spiritual health than worldly health. That is the reason  why one has to do swas swas simran while making their food which is absorbed into sarbloh. Same happens with our kirpan and kara. Sarbloh is your shield. 

22 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

Guru Pita ji only said jhatka is permissible in famine/war situation when all other food is unavailable , otherwise he would not have stipulated sarbloh bibek to keep his children (us) healthy  in the absence of dairy and regular food.

4

^ This goes against Guru Granth Sahib Jee, which is Guru Sahib’s word. So most likely, what the historians have made sikhs to believe, is false.

But if what you say is true (which I do not believe to be), this would show a weakness in sikhi. And also show sikhs in our history had normal attributes of a human because they fell prey to their weak instincts. A real sikh of Guru Gobind Singh Jee has the guns of Vaheguru or would at least practice the guns of Vaheguru. Killing another innocent being is an act of tyranny and is actually the same as muslims. Innocent animals are not asking for liberation but these Sikhs feel that they need to force and kill them to liberate them. This is the same motive behind a muslim when they murder non-believers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As Singhni Miri Piri has stated, it shows weakness in Sikhi if Guru Sahib believed that. Guru Sahib has shown numerous times in his life that sikhi doesn't hold a place for weak human insticts and survival. In JKVLondon's example, I would accept death by starvation happily knowing I had no access to vegetation. No Sikh should be afraid of death. 

All your claims about Guru Sahib allowing meat is false. All these stories are made up. A "Sikh" who kills an animal is no Gursikh but just a person dressed up as a Sikh. This type of person will be punished in the afterlife for harming animals without doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use