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ipledgeblue    72
On 04/06/2016 at 11:58 PM, AmandeepSinghBansel said:

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh,

After doing much itihaas i have found it that the darshan of Sri Dasam and Sarbloh Darbar is of utmost importance for the sake of the chardikala of the Sikh panth alongside Satguru Granth sahib ji maharaj. What can be done in the uk and in sangats across the world to install sri Dasam granth and Sarbloh Granth as seen in Takht Sri Hazoor sahib were the maryada of the tisarpanth seems to be alive and well aswell as shastar darshan.Can those of us that believe this to be an important issue do anything to create change?

This will be slow but should happen. Dasam bani knowledge is urgently needed for sikhs all over the world. If sikhs had chartripakhyan knowledge gyaan it could help with the kanjar dating stuff and drink pub club smoke culture mentality bringing us down. Also dasme pathsha banis promote the mind to support carrying shastar. Sarbloh Granth will take more difficulty for panth to understand, but is required.

Slowly, slowly need to bring banis back into nitnem before these changes. 

-bring more dasam banis into nitnem, and promote longer Chaupai Sahib and Tav prasad Swaiye. Add Chandi banis and shastarnaam mala. some gurdwaras I see are now doing the longer Chaupai paat. Sampooran Rehraas and also full Aarti Aarta with Guru Gobind Singh ji baniya, not the short one they do in Harimandir Sahib. THEN, things will change.

However, also remember that alot of parkash might be done by Chakarvarti Singhs or outside gurdwaras. Remember rehati Singhs might be living outside and travelling. Gurdwaras had much more sehajdhari sangat before Singh Sabha movement, so may have just had Adi Guru Granth parkash. In fact, there were gurdwaras that just had shastar prakash only, and no granth parkash. This would have reduced beadbi greatly, as Adi Granth saroop were handwritten and larivaar, and not SGPC printing press copies. The saroop would more likely be at gurdwaras with sewadaars, and not lonely, quiet gurdwaras. Now that gurdwaras are controlled by amrit dharis, why are the gurdwaras still only parkash Adi Guru Granth, this is more like sehajdhari gurdwara. If the mahants have been removed, then why are gurdwaras only concentrating on bani for wider panth and not Khalsa panth. It is making gurdwaras into sehajdhari gurdwaras, and sehajdhari mentaltiy - this would be pefectly fine for gurdwaras that are not under khalsa panth and under sehajdharis or sehajdhari mahants

 

On 05/06/2016 at 9:09 PM, GurburAkal said:

I am welcome to this idea, but SDGS and SSGS should not be prakashon the same level as SGGS.

prakash should be very much lower, so that we show respect to our Guru.

I have full faith and respect for Dasam Bani, but I think we need to remember our GURU is SGGS.

Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is our GURU, they are not just a granth.

Although I do feel Dasve Patshah Dee Bani needs to return to our Gurdwara Sahibs

And along with keeping nice shiny shastars prakash , I think we should also buy firearms and keep them locked up in a gun safe to protect the Gurdwara Sahib if need be. Shastars aren't only for show, contrary to popular belief.

I think it might have been this forum where I read words of Guru Gobind Singh, where the pothis are consider siblings or children of Adi Granth. Parkash of pothis can be done a bit lower or nearby.

On 05/06/2016 at 2:25 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

For Shastars you make Gatka the up most importance for an activity in the Gurdwara that anyone can do, (many people won't be inspired just looking at Shastars if you asked them. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

instead of the gatka dancing done by mainstream, we should have archery and shooting ranges set up in the big gurdwaras. Look how much space there is in Singh Sabha Havelock Southall! LEarning archery and shooting is much more useful then modern gatka.

shastar vidiya (or i guess some gatka) is important, but only if we can find the correct teachers. otherwise need to complement with martial arts. But also important to have wrestling/mal yudh and kabaddi also aids in this. Remember Guru Angad setup up wrestling akharas. So why are we not doing this? And most of the kabaddi players are moneh, why are amrit dharis not picking this up? see some aspects of shastar vidiya such as mal yudh/wrestling is easily available yet we are not implementing it!

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Jacfsing2    1,831
1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

Padd ched is manmat , 

This one statement proves my point. 

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Mahakaal96    242
45 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

This one statement proves my point. 

Doesn't prove anything.

first padd ched saroop & Gutka Sahibs were written by shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji .... some in puratan sampardai believe that Bhai Mani Singh being cut bhund by bhund was the price they had to pay for cutting Gurbani up into padd ched saroop.... which was actually done by Bhai Mani Singh to assist the panth in the future by making Gurbani easier to read for the masses.

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jkvlondon    3,415
1 hour ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Doesn't prove anything.

first padd ched saroop & Gutka Sahibs were written by shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji .... some in puratan sampardai believe that Bhai Mani Singh being cut bhund by bhund was the price they had to pay for cutting Gurbani up into padd ched saroop.... which was actually done by Bhai Mani Singh to assist the panth in the future by making Gurbani easier to read for the masses.

but the truth is what was done for learning the bisrams etc has now been used to transform and mutilate full saroops and even to sneak in changes to bani, I'm sure that is not what our bazurg had intended but to maintain the awe and respect of unbroken Guru ji and strive to be worthy of being a granthi i.e. Vizier of Guru Sahib, by going through full training of santhiya, raag etc 

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SoulSingh    51

lol I'm really confused now, can I at least know if nihungs and the singh sabha movement had a rivalry/ didn't get along with each other.

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akaltaksal    51
On 9/5/2017 at 9:09 AM, jkvlondon said:

please i read that apart from beadbhi of Dasam Granth the perpetrator called the granth full of filth and threw it from the window and it was not mentioned that person was a nihang but someone in the Singh Sabha movement determined to remove the Granth from its rightful place by Guru ji's side. has no one considered the position that the two Granths of Dasmesh Pita ji act as pehradars/generals of the Guru organising the fauj? 

That's interesting considering the Singh Sabha had a lot of pro-Sri Dasam Granth Sahib individuals (even Bhasaur Singh Sabha did, before it went downhill).

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Jacfsing2    1,831
15 hours ago, SoulSingh said:

lol I'm really confused now, can I at least know if nihungs and the singh sabha movement had a rivalry/ didn't get along with each other.

More complicated than that. It's more of a battle between Reformist branches v.s. Traditional branches.

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ipledgeblue    72

Also we argue over doing Dasam Granth parkash yet we allow playing of harmonium inside gurdwaras on the same level as Adi Guru Granth Sahib? The same instrument which Akali Phoola Singh didn't allow in Harimandir sahib and said that it is "kanjaraa da gham"?

Seriously, having Dasam Granth prakash is way more respectful than the disrespect of using harmonium on same level as Adi Guru Granth Sahib. At least those that are not for prakash should promote raag instruments, why no taos/dilruba/saranga/rabab being played on Guru's darbar, which are Guru hukam anyway?

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SoulSingh    51
5 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

Also we argue over doing Dasam Granth parkash yet we allow playing of harmonium inside gurdwaras on the same level as Adi Guru Granth Sahib? The same instrument which Akali Phoola Singh didn't allow in Harimandir sahib and said that it is "kanjaraa da gham"?

Seriously, having Dasam Granth prakash is way more respectful than the disrespect of using harmonium on same level as Adi Guru Granth Sahib. At least those that are not for prakash should promote raag instruments, why no taos/dilruba/saranga/rabab being played on Guru's darbar, which are Guru hukam anyway?

First of all, why are you bringing in instruments? Secondly, vajay Da Ki kasoor aa? I understand that many want Tanti-Saj Sangeet but any musician will tell you that no instrument is worth the insult "kanjra Da kham"... I doubt akali phoola singh has said that, I need proof. 

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akaltaksal    51
On 9/6/2017 at 5:06 AM, Mahakaal96 said:

Doesn't prove anything.

first padd ched saroop & Gutka Sahibs were written by shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji .... some in puratan sampardai believe that Bhai Mani Singh being cut bhund by bhund was the price they had to pay for cutting Gurbani up into padd ched saroop.... which was actually done by Bhai Mani Singh to assist the panth in the future by making Gurbani easier to read for the masses.

Bhai Mani Singh Ji didn't do Padd Chedd (splitting the conjoined words) of Guru Sahib Ji's sarroop, he rearranged the Banis. The Sarroop was probably still Larrivaar. 

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akaltaksal    51
16 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

More complicated than that. It's more of a battle between Reformist branches v.s. Traditional branches.

 the Singh Sabha saw themselves as Revivalists or those reverting via Reforming. 

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akaltaksal    51
On 9/6/2017 at 3:22 AM, ipledgeblue said:

This will be slow but should happen. Dasam bani knowledge is urgently needed for sikhs all over the world. If sikhs had chartripakhyan knowledge gyaan it could help with the kanjar dating stuff and drink pub club smoke culture mentality bringing us down. Also dasme pathsha banis promote the mind to support carrying shastar. Sarbloh Granth will take more difficulty for panth to understand, but is required.

Slowly, slowly need to bring banis back into nitnem before these changes. 

-bring more dasam banis into nitnem, and promote longer Chaupai Sahib and Tav prasad Swaiye. Add Chandi banis and shastarnaam mala. some gurdwaras I see are now doing the longer Chaupai paat. Sampooran Rehraas and also full Aarti Aarta with Guru Gobind Singh ji baniya, not the short one they do in Harimandir Sahib. THEN, things will change.

However, also remember that alot of parkash might be done by Chakarvarti Singhs or outside gurdwaras. Remember rehati Singhs might be living outside and travelling. Gurdwaras had much more sehajdhari sangat before Singh Sabha movement, so may have just had Adi Guru Granth parkash. In fact, there were gurdwaras that just had shastar prakash only, and no granth parkash. This would have reduced beadbi greatly, as Adi Granth saroop were handwritten and larivaar, and not SGPC printing press copies. The saroop would more likely be at gurdwaras with sewadaars, and not lonely, quiet gurdwaras. Now that gurdwaras are controlled by amrit dharis, why are the gurdwaras still only parkash Adi Guru Granth, this is more like sehajdhari gurdwara. If the mahants have been removed, then why are gurdwaras only concentrating on bani for wider panth and not Khalsa panth. It is making gurdwaras into sehajdhari gurdwaras, and sehajdhari mentaltiy - this would be pefectly fine for gurdwaras that are not under khalsa panth and under sehajdharis or sehajdhari mahants

 

I think it might have been this forum where I read words of Guru Gobind Singh, where the pothis are consider siblings or children of Adi Granth. Parkash of pothis can be done a bit lower or nearby.

instead of the gatka dancing done by mainstream, we should have archery and shooting ranges set up in the big gurdwaras. Look how much space there is in Singh Sabha Havelock Southall! LEarning archery and shooting is much more useful then modern gatka.

shastar vidiya (or i guess some gatka) is important, but only if we can find the correct teachers. otherwise need to complement with martial arts. But also important to have wrestling/mal yudh and kabaddi also aids in this. Remember Guru Angad setup up wrestling akharas. So why are we not doing this? And most of the kabaddi players are moneh, why are amrit dharis not picking this up? see some aspects of shastar vidiya such as mal yudh/wrestling is easily available yet we are not implementing it!

In regards to your point about shooting. A Khalsa would need to accomodate and thoroughly educate him/herself with modern warfare and weaponry, How can you UK wale do that in the UK? 

You people only have access to airsoft ammo, and I'm not sure what kind of guns, but probably not the kind that are similar to modern weaponry. Being a skilled shooter or gunman (let alone Soldier)  isn't just about accurately aiming and pulling a trigger. 

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ipledgeblue    72
On 08/09/2017 at 0:13 AM, akaltaksal said:

In regards to your point about shooting. A Khalsa would need to accomodate and thoroughly educate him/herself with modern warfare and weaponry, How can you UK wale do that in the UK? 

You people only have access to airsoft ammo, and I'm not sure what kind of guns, but probably not the kind that are similar to modern weaponry. Being a skilled shooter or gunman (let alone Soldier)  isn't just about accurately aiming and pulling a trigger. 

Actually some of the higher class people in uk are part of hunting clubs which use horses. Some of their shikkar is foxes. PErhaps UK Singhs could adapt this to something else?

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akaltaksal    51
4 minutes ago, ipledgeblue said:

Actually some of the higher class people in uk are part of hunting clubs which use horses. Some of their shikkar is foxes. PErhaps UK Singhs could adapt this to something else?

If we talk about modern combat. It would require learning how to pie an area, Assembling and disassembling rifles and handguns along with their anatomy and the science of it all, Learning how to move at any needed pace and adjust your aim and focus accordingly, surveilling or clearing any given area, etc. It's a lot. Here in the US, we have former Navy Seals and Marines who run training camps for any interested adult. They teach what they know. You guys should look for  something similar in the UK.

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chatanga    1,068
On 04/06/2016 at 11:58 PM, AmandeepSinghBansel said:

 

 What can be done in the uk and in sangats across the world to install sri Dasam granth and Sarbloh Granth as seen in Takht Sri Hazoor sahib were the maryada of the tisarpanth seems to be alive and well aswell as shastar darshan.

 

Traditionally the parkash of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth was done at the Takhts and chhounis/samprdai deras. No other Gurdwara that I know of had parkash of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth that I have heard of so far ie Sri Nankana Sahib.

 

On 02/09/2017 at 4:20 PM, ms514 said:

 

Find evidence in history that shows that when the Gurgaddi was transferred, parkash of Dasam Granth Sahib was also done and coconut and 5 paise were placed in front of Dasam Granth Sahib and/or Sarbloh Granth Sahib (same ceremony that was conducted to transfer Guruship from 1st to 10th Patshahi).  That might do it in a convincing manner.

 

I don't think that history is available. You want evidence that Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth was present? Read on...

 

On 04/09/2017 at 2:40 PM, Guest AnonSengh said:

There is historical proof when Gurgaddi was transferred. In Bhatt Vahi, Bhatt Narbud Singh writes Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Gurgaddi to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

 

Where is this Vahi? The last person that I know of who claimed to see this Vahi was Giani Gian Singh and that was over 120 years. Where has it gone? Did one actually exist?

The first concrete mention of Guru Gobind Singh giving gurgaddi to Aad Granth was written by Bhai Koer Singh in Gurbilas in 1751. Even those eye-witness writers make no mention of Guru Sahib giving gurgaddi to Aad Granth. ie Kavi Senapti , Dhadi Nath Mal.

 

 

On 06/09/2017 at 1:47 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

We have actual factual evidence that Guru Gobind Singh Jee did Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Bhatt Narbud Singh).

 

Ok, let's see it.

 

On 06/09/2017 at 1:47 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

Sri Dasam Granth Parkash was only started in the mid-1800's, no earlier source writes that Sri Dasam Granth parkash was done. Another reason why I think this practice of doing Sri Dasam Granth parkash on the same Takht as Guru Jee is man made by us because we now have people doing Parkash of Sarabloh Granth too, this is nowhere written in History. Also, Sri Dasam Granth is not even a standard Granth. Sikhs from back in the day used to make their own Pothis of Dasam Baani that they called the Dasam Granth.

 

Ok so we have the FIRST written evidence of the parkash of both granth in 1800s. Does that mean that the practice was only started 1 or 5 days before? That is a very poor argument to state that parkash only started from the time somone witnessed it and wrote it down.

 

For this statement alone, you should be banned from this forum. Nothing personal, but if you are posting lies to confuse other Sikhs, then you have no place on a Sikh forum.

 

On 06/09/2017 at 1:47 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

 

 Another reason why I think this practice of doing Sri Dasam Granth parkash on the same Takht as Guru Jee is man made by us because we now have people doing Parkash of Sarabloh Granth too, this is nowhere written in History.

 

Written in history? Where has the vidhi for Amrit Sinchar been written in history? What are the 5 k's according to what has been written in history?

 

There are SO MANY things about Sihi that have not been written in history, but passed down through seena-baseena tradtions. You want to only beleive what is written down in history? That is a very slippery slope.

 

 

On 06/09/2017 at 3:56 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

It's in the photo:

The Date on the Bir is 1755BK, which is 1698, as we know, but look closely:

It says  ਸ੍ਰੀਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ, you can also see Vaheguru is missing a Sihari before the ਹ.

 

Makes no difference how these words are written. The meaning is absolutley clear.

On 06/09/2017 at 3:56 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

Also, there is some controversy if ੴ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ ॥ is the correct manglacharan, or ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ ॥ is the correct one.

 

There is no controversy. Both are equally valid. It's like any Sikh saying Satguru Granth Sahib or Sri Guru Granth Sahib. 

 

If you are creating posts like this, to me, it is very apparent where your thoughts are on this subject.

 

 

On 06/09/2017 at 1:47 AM, Guest AnonSengh said:

 

It was only until 1897, under Khem Singh Bedi's (Same Guy who Ran the Singh Sabha) Sodhak Committee standardized the Sri Dasam Granth that is being printed for over a century now.

 

It was only in  the 1940s when the SGPC standardized SGGS (from having many birs with lots of differences in them) to the one that is being printed for almost 70 years now. So what? Does that mean the SGGS should be given less respect?

 

On 07/09/2017 at 3:20 PM, ipledgeblue said:

 The same instrument which Akali Phoola Singh didn't allow in Harimandir sahib and said that it is "kanjaraa da gham"?

 

 

Akali Ji died in 1823, the harmonium came to Panjab in around 1880s.

 

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