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13Mirch

Societal Segregation Versus Sikhi

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why do different castes think there from a diff race LOL i mean a jatt looks the exact same as any other punjabi so i don't understand why there so much tension based on a surname we all singhs

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Quantavius, I wasn't aware you were the world's leading scholar on my habits. You're acting very familiar all of a sudden. Get a grip, you don't know any of us and you have no idea what we do with our time. Maybe we don't buy mazhbis Gurdwaras [LOL] or fly off to India to preach, but that's because most of us have families, duties and jobs to occupy ourselves with. Not all of us can be Jagraj Singhs, the wish to do something doesn't mean you are well suited to doing it, don't be so simple-minded. But when we have time, we help fellow Sikhs in whatever modest ways we can. Not that I should have to explain any of this to you LOL. Quit making wild presumptions about people you have never met and, if God is kind, never will.

I'm not attacking Jatts Quantavius, I'm criticising people who think they are better than everyone else because of some accident of birth. You don't seem to understand very much about the problems facing mazhbis. They aren't in need of money any more than the average Jatt is these days and they definitely don't need me to buy any Gurdwaras for them. They have both. And anyway, building them their own personal Gurdwaras where they can be cut off from everyone else is hardly going to make them feel less like social pariahs is it LOL? The problem they are facing is Jatt supremacist ideology which alienates them in Guru Ghars and pushes them into the arms of cults, and to address this problem we need to be targeting Jatts, not Mazbhis. Luckily, there are many parchaaraks who set out to do exactly this, and even we on this forum are contributing to that debate in a humble sort of way.

I don't need to be a scholar to point out a hypocrite. You don't need to leave your families and jobs to create a movement of sorts to help out the Mazhbi's, my selfish friend.

"You don't seem to understand very much about the problems facing mazhbis. They aren't in need of money any more than the average Jatt..."

Spoken like a true fool. One of the major reasons a person leaves one religion for another is because of support and not because their ego was not massaged in their previous religion. You are truly an ignorant bufoon.

Since when does having your own Gurdwara catering to your communities needs equates to being 'cut off'?. If you're not happy the way Jatts behaving in one Gurdwara, would it not be better if you create your own? There are Ramgharias, Sainis, Dhoabe...and they all have their own Gurdwaras. You don't see Jatts or these other communities complaining that they're being 'cut off' from each other. Why is that? Why the constant complain and whining from the likes of you of not being 'inclusive'? That's because you're suffering from an over inflated ego.

If you truly are so concerned about Mazhbi leaving Sikhism, why don't you do something? Create a fund from the UK. Help them out. Create Gurdwaras that are 'inclusive' of them. But you're not here to help. You're here to massage your ego. You need to find a bogeyman to attack and make yourself look good in front of your low IQ Pendu buddies.

Nobody leaves one religion for another just because they were 'looked down' by members of their own community you clueless nit wit. If that were the case, millions of low caste Hindus would have left Hinduism by now. Do you think there are no problems among Christians and Muslims? You are very ignorant as to why one leaves a religion for another.

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I don't need to be a scholar to point out a hypocrite. You don't need to leave your families and jobs to create a movement of sorts to help out the Mazhbi's, my selfish friend.

"You don't seem to understand very much about the problems facing mazhbis. They aren't in need of money any more than the average Jatt..."

Spoken like a true fool. One of the major reasons a person leaves one religion for another is because of support and not because their ego was not massaged in their previous religion. You are truly an ignorant bufoon.

Since when does having your own Gurdwara catering to your communities needs equates to being 'cut off'?. If you're not happy the way Jatts behaving in one Gurdwara, would it not be better if you create your own? There are Ramgharias, Sainis, Dhoabe...and they all have their own Gurdwaras. You don't see Jatts or these other communities complaining that they're being 'cut off' from each other. Why is that? Why the constant complain and whining from the likes of you of not being 'inclusive'? That's because you're suffering from an over inflated ego.

If you truly are so concerned about Mazhbi leaving Sikhism, why don't you do something? Create a fund from the UK. Help them out. Create Gurdwaras that are 'inclusive' of them. But you're not here to help. You're here to massage your ego. You need to find a bogeyman to attack and make yourself look good in front of your low IQ Pendu buddies.

Nobody leaves one religion for another just because they were 'looked down' by members of their own community you clueless nit wit. If that were the case, millions of low caste Hindus would have left Hinduism by now. Do you think there are no problems among Christians and Muslims? You are very ignorant as to why one leaves a religion for another.

WJKK WJKF

Why would you support and suggest a movement to make a gurdwara purely based on caste? How is this in anyway good for sikhi.

If you wish to continue to carry on endorsing the jatt caste you should not say your a sikh of the guru. Because the guru is against the hierarchy of any caste. There is no justification for your view in gurmat. It is simply manmat.

As I have said before on this site, you should return fully to your jatt roots and ancestor worship. Light a diva for the jathedar of your clan and be in ore of your ancestors.

Live and breathe your jatt ancestry, but leave sikhi to the gurus sikhs.

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Quantavirus your personal attacks against Balkar are completely unnecessary. He's outclassing you by a country mile in style in being patient with your personal attack. In addition, unlike you, he's actually making a responsive and on topic point.

Are you multiple people using this account? I recall interesting respectful views that in the past that seem to have come from a different person.

Edited by buddasingh
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I don't need to be a scholar to point out a hypocrite. You don't need to leave your families and jobs to create a movement of sorts to help out the Mazhbi's, my selfish friend.

"You don't seem to understand very much about the problems facing mazhbis. They aren't in need of money any more than the average Jatt..."

Spoken like a true fool. One of the major reasons a person leaves one religion for another is because of support and not because their ego was not massaged in their previous religion. You are truly an ignorant bufoon.

Since when does having your own Gurdwara catering to your communities needs equates to being 'cut off'?. If you're not happy the way Jatts behaving in one Gurdwara, would it not be better if you create your own? There are Ramgharias, Sainis, Dhoabe...and they all have their own Gurdwaras. You don't see Jatts or these other communities complaining that they're being 'cut off' from each other. Why is that? Why the constant complain and whining from the likes of you of not being 'inclusive'? That's because you're suffering from an over inflated ego.

If you truly are so concerned about Mazhbi leaving Sikhism, why don't you do something? Create a fund from the UK. Help them out. Create Gurdwaras that are 'inclusive' of them. But you're not here to help. You're here to massage your ego. You need to find a bogeyman to attack and make yourself look good in front of your low IQ Pendu buddies.

I find it very odd that someone who is mounting a grand defense of casteism has the nerve to call anyone who disagrees with him a 'low IQ Pendu'. This stone age nonsense which you are defending to the hilt lies at the heart of Pendu ideology. And thank you for repackaging exactly what I was saying into different words. It's pretty obvious that if Jatt Gurdware are treating mazbhis like garbage and aren't permitting them to function as equals, as I have told you, then the immediate implication of this is that they are not getting the support they need from the place they need it most, the Guru Ghar. This has little to do with massaging people's egos. More caste-based Gurdwaras will never be a good thing and no right-thinking Sikh could seriously advocate this.

I'll repeat myself one last time. You don't know me and you don't know about any of the things I do, including what I do in terms of seva. I owe you no further explanation than that. I'll also remind you that I said that the Mazhbis aren't the ones who we need to be targeting if we want to uproot casteism, the Jatts are. And as for your hatchet-job quick fix idea, 'building the mazhbis Gurdwaras where they can be included', how would you make sure they were included? How would you make the Jatts include them when many don't want to? What you'd be left with is just another mazhbi Gurdwara, a Gurdwara segregated on the basis of birth.

The Ramgharias and others also haven't built their own gurdware because they are marginalised by Jatts and need a place to call their own, but because they also think they are superior. Stop making excuses for this. There is no excuse for degrading a place of worship by making it an arena for some ancient indian d1ck waving contest LOL.

Nobody leaves one religion for another just because they were 'looked down' by members of their own community you clueless nit wit. If that were the case, millions of low caste Hindus would have left Hinduism by now. Do you think there are no problems among Christians and Muslims? You are very ignorant as to why one leaves a religion for another.

As I explained, they aren't simply 'looked down upon', they are treated like second class citizens.

I'm also aware why people leave one religion for another. One of the reasons is a similarity in views. Which is why, in light of your anti-Sikh views and general dullness, I'm very surprised you haven't left Sikhi for Hinduism. Your ideas have no place in Gursikhi.

Edited by Balkaar
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WJKK WJKF

Why would you support and suggest a movement to make a gurdwara purely based on caste? How is this in anyway good for sikhi.

If you wish to continue to carry on endorsing the jatt caste you should not say your a sikh of the guru. Because the guru is against the hierarchy of any caste. There is no justification for your view in gurmat. It is simply manmat.

As I have said before on this site, you should return fully to your jatt roots and ancestor worship. Light a diva for the jathedar of your clan and be in ore of your ancestors.

Live and breathe your jatt ancestry, but leave sikhi to the gurus sikhs.

Reread what I wrote very, very slowly as you have problems with your reading comprehension skills. If that doesn't get work, get someone to read my post and explain it to you.

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Quantavirus your personal attacks against Balkar are completely unnecessary. He's outclassing you by a country mile in style in being patient with your personal attack. In addition, unlike you, he's actually making a responsive and on topic point.

Are you multiple people using this account? I recall interesting respectful views that in the past that seem to have come from a different person.

Ok, where did I go wrong? I'll reread my post to see where I went wrong. I try my best to not be offensive. I'll improve and be more respectful. Sorry.

I resent being 'outclassed'. LOL!

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Reread what I wrote very, very slowly as you have problems with your reading comprehension skills. If that doesn't get work, get someone to read my post and explain it to you.

WJKK WJKF

I did read your post accurately, but for the benefit of doubt il read it once again for you as you suggested.

I'd suggest you read what gurbani has to say about nimrata and how sikhs should address one another. Mithi jabaan will get you along way brother.

I also think you should read my previous post one more time and maybe consider stop calling yourself a sikh and start calling your self just a jatt and a worshiper of your caste and clan leader. Be an embassodor in what you believe in, not in something half heartedly because to be a sikh, you first have to give your head. I don't think you fit the bill because you can't even give your ancestry up.

Jatt claim Dhan Dhan Shaheed Baba Deep Singh ji as a jatt and not Khalsa. When will we hear the jatt claiming Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji as a jatt and not Khalsa?

Edited by sikhiseeker

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Lool, yea nice try u freshy.

Guru tegh bahadur belonged to sodhi line of khatris, where as gujjars r not khatris u mug. They r 2 completely different tribes, bloodlines and even tribal occupations. Keep ur freshy/backward lies to yourself.

U r such an AVID advocate of tribal/caste apartheid, that ur willing to make up lies of how gujjars r now khatris, even tho nobody has ever heard/said that before, ever.

Every1 knows ur a hindu undercover, all ur posts glorify hindu caste system and their animal looking "gods".

Fyi not all Kshytria are khatri, such as Rajput (& Gujjars) etc.

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WJKK WJKF

I did read your post accurately, but for the benefit of doubt il read it once again for you as you suggested.

I'd suggest you read what gurbani has to say about nimrata and how sikhs should address one another. Mithi jabaan will get you along way brother.

I also think you should read my previous post one more time and maybe consider stop calling yourself a sikh and start calling your self just a jatt and a worshiper of your caste and clan leader. Be an embassodor in what you believe in, not in something half heartedly because to be a sikh, you first have to give your head. I don't think you fit the bill because you can't even give your ancestry up.

Jatt claim Dhan Dhan Shaheed Baba Deep Singh ji as a jatt and not Khalsa. When will we hear the jatt claiming Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji as a jatt and not Khalsa?

They already do.

WJKK WJKF

Obviously the other groups you mentioned do.....without going into the usual debate that's the usual caste based issue again. But when have you watched a film with a "Tharkaan sikh" (a contradiction in itself) being the pinnacle of what a sikh should be?

However no group claims sikhi to be their own more than the jatts. You only hear jatts claiming mahaan shaheed as jat and not Khalsa. Just look at the topic to do with the film "Ardas" a few weeks back...and watch the YouTube clip of ghughi and his views on Shaheed Baba Deep Singh as "Jatt" lol.

It's not the number of jatts what causes the superiority complex, it's what they think and say before and after accepting Amrit what is the problem. If one believes they are "better" than someone genetically and ethically just because of their ancestry, it's wrong right?

That's the problem. Alil like the Nazi Ideology of the supremacy of the Arian Race.

The point is not preponderance, it is believed they converted en-mass for political prominence but the point is answering their myths regarding how they influenced Sikhi.

Edited by 13Mirch

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Fyi not all Kshytria are khatri, such as Rajput (& Gujjars) etc.

YAAAAAAAAWN! Im well aware of who YOU hindus consider as 2nd tier (kshatriyas) in ur beloved caste system, such as rajputs/aroras/bhatias/khatris.....

However that doesnt include gujjars. Anyways go back to sleep, and go and join a hindu forum. When sikh issues r on the agenda, u r NOWHERE to be seen, yet any discussion on hindu animal gods and ur beloved caste system, u in there like a shot.

Edited by StarStriker
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YAAAAAAAAWN! Im well aware of who YOU hindus consider as 2nd tier (kshatriyas) in ur beloved caste system, such as rajputs/aroras/bhatias/khatris.....

However that doesnt include gujjars. Anyways go back to sleep, and go and join a hindu forum. When sikh issues r on the agenda, u r NOWHERE to be seen, yet any discussion on hindu animal gods and ur beloved caste system, u in there like a shot.

When there are Sikh issues I have nothing to say because what I wanted to say has already been said by another respected member (such as yourself). Gujjars are Kshatriya btw, I know this because I have seen it listed as such in ads.

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When there are Sikh issues I have nothing to say because what I wanted to say has already been said by another respected member (such as yourself). Gujjars are Kshatriya btw, I know this because I have seen it listed as such in ads.

Lol

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Quantivus,


"No. Actually YOU are missing the point. Let's assume Jatts do consider themselves superior and you are right. How does that affect you? What actions have they taken in regards to feeling superior affected your well being?"


Jats do consider themselves superior - no assumption required.


Your question was, how does this affect me?


Here's the answer. As much as pork is to a muslim, beef to a hindu, hierarchy/supremacy of caste is to a Sikh. It's anti-Sikh to it's very foundation. If something is anti-Sikh, it does affect my well being. In fact, such views of caste-based superiority should be confined to either hinduism, or the 17th century, or both. They certainly have no place in Sikhi.


It makes me laugh frankly, that certain forum members who are supposedly the most "anti-India/anti-hindu" or alternatively, "pro-khalistani", are simultaneously the most "pro-caste" and by default, undercover hindu's by another name. Oh, the irony.

Edited by DailyMail

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WJKK WJKF

I did read your post accurately, but for the benefit of doubt il read it once again for you as you suggested.

I'd suggest you read what gurbani has to say about nimrata and how sikhs should address one another. Mithi jabaan will get you along way brother.

I also think you should read my previous post one more time and maybe consider stop calling yourself a sikh and start calling your self just a jatt and a worshiper of your caste and clan leader. Be an embassodor in what you believe in, not in something half heartedly because to be a sikh, you first have to give your head. I don't think you fit the bill because you can't even give your ancestry up.

Jatt claim Dhan Dhan Shaheed Baba Deep Singh ji as a jatt and not Khalsa. When will we hear the jatt claiming Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji as a jatt and not Khalsa?

You are not a Sant/Baba so give your huge ego a rest. You have no authority to decide who is a Sikh and who isn't. Instead of talking to me about Gurbani you should check your own ego and arrogance as it is in the gutter.

As for Jatts claiming a historical figure as a Jatt and not Khalsa, that is not my concern. There is no way you can police everybody's behavior. It is simply not possible. I have met Sikhs who say Jatts are stupid in my face. That's life. If you have a problem with Jatt behavior, go open your own Gurdwara or visit one that is more to your liking. It is not possible to force everyone to display good behavior. And by attacking them openly, you are only inflaming the situation and making it worse.

Jatts themselves are not a uniform group. There was a time Malwais and Majhe Jatts could not get along, so they opened their own Gurdwaras. Even today, not everybody is 100% agreement in how a Gurdwara is run. If in countries like Australia and NZ, the Asian Sikhs would have their own Gurdwara and the those from India would their own. The Asians don't like to sit on the floor for langar so they have their own Gurdwaras.

There is always going to be divisions among people.

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why do different castes think there from a diff race LOL i mean a jatt looks the exact same as any other punjabi so i don't understand why there so much tension based on a surname we all singhs

You need to expand your horizon beyond your bedroom... Whilst I agree that Jatts are not 100% homogeneous, a strong percentage still are, and accordingly it is very easy to distinguish from a sample group whom are conclusively Jatt.

The Jatt obsession by the masses is quite a insight into the psyche of the non-Jatt.

Anyhow I digress... Jatts should be put down en mass like the rabid dogs and scum they are, only then will the "Khalsa" panth be truly pure.

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Oh my! Jatts are rabid dogs and scum as well as being nazi supremicists.

And it is Jatts that have the chip on the shoulder?

Moderators, is it not strange that if the language used here was used against anyone else this forum, the thread would have been closed. But since it is Jatts, then it is fair game.

What has been learnt from these posts? That most Sikhs of non Jatt Sikhs hate Sikhs of Jatt background and would like them to disappear from the face of the earth.

I recall going into an Afghani shop once and saw 2 Afghanis arguing and one of them puffed his chest out. The other one told him to stop acting like a Jatt.

It seems that the Jatts social dominance is a big problem for others. Perhaps Sikhs of Jatt background show more chardi-kala ness and others cannot stand it.

I think that all Jatts of Sikhi should leave enmass and should let the Khatris,Ramgharias, Sainis,Kambohs, Lobanas, Batras, Mazhabi fight amongst themselves.

Then it would be interesting if the caste issue is a Jatt problem or a wider problem.

I would suspect the latter.

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It seems that the Jatts social dominance is a big problem for others. Perhaps Sikhs of Jatt background show more chardi-kala ness and others cannot stand it.

I think that all Jatts of Sikhi should leave enmass and should let the Khatris,Ramgharias, Sainis,Kambohs, Lobanas, Batras, Mazhabi fight amongst themselves.

Then it would be interesting if the caste issue is a Jatt problem or a wider problem.

I would suspect the latter.

I actually believe that is actually the case here. IMHO Jatts do show more 'chardi-kala ness'. They are the most generous and honest ones. They have unity the others don't have. They're able to come together when the need arises. What we are witnessing here is envy and people vying for power. This is what is driving them nuts.

Jatts are also the most anti Hindu among all Sikhs. If a Sikh starts talking about similarities between Hinduism and Sikhism, 99.9% it's a non Jatt. If not for the Jatts, there would be a good chance we would end up being be another Hindu sect. Jatts truly embraced our Gurus teachings wholeheartedly.

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I actually believe that is actually the case here. IMHO Jatts do show more 'chardi-kala ness'. They are the most generous and honest ones. They have unity the others don't have. They're able to come together when the need arises. What we are witnessing here is envy and people vying for power. This is what is driving them nuts.

Jatts are also the most anti Hindu among all Sikhs. If a Sikh starts talking about similarities between Hinduism and Sikhism, 99.9% it's a non Jatt. If not for the Jatts, there would be a good chance we would end up being be another Hindu sect. Jatts truly embraced our Gurus teachings wholeheartedly.

Jatt-Envy is the elephant in the room here.

If you have watched Animal Farm (originally a book by George Orwell), I think you would get an idea of some of the prevailing attitudes. Some may find it uncomfortable but necessary to understand none the less.

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