Societal Segregation Versus Sikhi

[DailyMail]

Ranjeet,

You've missed the point. Its not about invading countries. It's about defining a particular group as a "superior race" and somehow 'a cut above the rest'.

[Quantavius]

Ranjeet,

You've missed the point. Its not about invading countries. It's about defining a particular group as a "superior race" and somehow 'a cut above the rest'.

No. Actually YOU are missing the point. Let's assume Jatts do consider themselves superior and you are right. How does that affect you? What actions have they taken in regards to feeling superior affected your well being?

[Balkaar]

No. Actually YOU are missing the point. Let's consider Jatts do consider themselves superior. How does that affect you? What actions have they taken in regards to feeling superior affected your well being?

Quantavius, Jatt supremacism isn't some harmless quirk or bit of eccentricity, it directly affects many lives. It is no coincidence that so many of the anti-Sikh deras in the Punjab rely upon majhbi and low-caste former Sikhs to constitute the bulk of their following, or that Christian missionaries are specifically targeting these people. They have turned to these cults to find the acceptance which they are convinced that Sikhi denies them, because of the actions of bigoted Jatt supremacists - excluding them from Gurdwara committees, assaulting them when they agitate for their rights [this still happens from time to time in my nanke's pind Talhan), refusing to sell them land because of their caste. You appear totally disconnected from the reality of it. I don't know how often you visit Punjab, if at all, but the implications of casteism there are not the same as they are for Sikhs like you living in the West, in a society where these labels mean nothing at all.

[jkvlondon]

Quantavius, Jatt supremacism isn't some harmless quirk or bit of eccentricity, it directly affects many lives. It is no coincidence that so many of the anti-Sikh deras in the Punjab rely upon majhbi and low-caste former Sikhs to constitute the bulk of their following, or that Christian missionaries are specifically targeting these people. They have turned to these cults to find the acceptance which they are convinced that Sikhi denies them, because of the actions of bigoted Jatt supremacists - excluding them from Gurdwara committees, assaulting them when they agitate for their rights [this still happens from time to time in my nanke's pind Talhan), refusing to sell them land because of their caste. You appear totally disconnected from the reality of it. I don't know how often you visit Punjab, if at all, but the implications of casteism there are not the same as they are for Sikhs like you living in the West, in a society where these labels mean nothing at all. Your last name still counts for something in Punjab.

surely selling punjab's land to our bretheren is better than outsiders because the local economy gets a big boost .They get land and independance they are happy, Punjab is looked after it's own children rather than getting asset stripped by outsiders and anyrevenue from crops going outside punjab's economy too. Problem with Punjabis is their NOSE is too easily cut ...

[Ranjeet01]

Ranjeet,

You've missed the point. Its not about invading countries. It's about defining a particular group as a "superior race" and somehow 'a cut above the rest'.

Jatts are no superior race nor are they cut above the rest.

[Quantavius]

Quantavius, Jatt supremacism isn't some harmless quirk or bit of eccentricity, it directly affects many lives. It is no coincidence that so many of the anti-Sikh deras in the Punjab rely upon majhbi and low-caste former Sikhs to constitute the bulk of their following, or that Christian missionaries are specifically targeting these people. They have turned to these cults to find the acceptance which they are convinced that Sikhi denies them, because of the actions of bigoted Jatt supremacists - excluding them from Gurdwara committees, assaulting them when they agitate for their rights [this still happens from time to time in my nanke's pind Talhan), refusing to sell them land because of their caste. You appear totally disconnected from the reality of it. I don't know how often you visit Punjab, if at all, but the implications of casteism there are not the same as they are for Sikhs like you living in the West, in a society where these labels mean nothing at all.

And what is stopping you and your ilk from going to Punjab and creating your own version of 'perfect Sikhism' and keeping these Majhbi Sikhs within Sikhism fold? How hard is it for you people like you getting together in the UK, putting your money where your collective mouths are and buying over a couple of Gurdwaras in Punjab to cater to these Majhbi Sikhs?

Take Jagraj as an example. He is out there doing what he believes. No attack on anybody else. This is a guy I can really respect. I would not be the least surprised if he is a Jatt. LOL! Why don't you be a Jagraj for the Mazhbi Sikhs in Punjab? Create a movement of sorts. Go help your Mazhbi brothers and sisters instead of attacking Jatts in a forum. You my friend are part of the problem.Spare us your crocodile tears for Mazhbi Sikhs. You like every other hypocrite here never cared for them. They are simply there as footstool for you to attack Jatts. People who are imbued with positive energy go out and create something. Negative people on the other hand, whine, complain and attack others and simultaneously stroking their over inflated ego.

The disconnect here is between you and your hypocrisy.

[Balkaar]

And what is stopping you and your ilk from going to Punjab and creating your own version of 'perfect Sikhism' and keeping these Majhbi Sikhs within Sikhism fold? How hard is it for you people like you getting together in the UK, putting your money where your collective mouths are and buying over a couple of Gurdwaras in Punjab to cater to these Majhbi Sikhs?

Take Jagraj as an example. He is out there doing what he believes. No attack on anybody else. This is a guy I can really respect. I would not be the least surprised if he is a Jatt. LOL! Why don't you be a Jagraj for the Mazhbi Sikhs in Punjab? Create a movement of sorts. Go help your Mazhbi brothers and sisters instead of attacking Jatts in a forum. You my friend are part of the problem.Spare us your crocodile tears for Mazhbi Sikhs. You like every other hypocrite here never cared for them. They are simply there as footstool for you to attack Jatts. People who are imbued with positive energy go out and create something. Negative people on the other hand, whine, complain and attack others and simultaneously stroking their over inflated ego.

The disconnect here is between you and your hypocrisy.

Quantavius, I wasn't aware you were the world's leading scholar on my habits. You're acting very familiar all of a sudden. Get a grip, you don't know any of us and you have no idea what we do with our time. Maybe we don't buy mazhbis Gurdwaras [LOL] or fly off to India to preach, but that's because most of us have families, duties and jobs to occupy ourselves with. Not all of us can be Jagraj Singhs, the wish to do something doesn't mean you are well suited to doing it, don't be so simple-minded. But when we have time, we help fellow Sikhs in whatever modest ways we can. Not that I should have to explain any of this to you LOL. Quit making wild presumptions about people you have never met and, if God is kind, never will.

I'm not attacking Jatts Quantavius, I'm criticising people who think they are better than everyone else because of some accident of birth. You don't seem to understand very much about the problems facing mazhbis. They aren't in need of money any more than the average Jatt is these days and they definitely don't need me to buy any Gurdwaras for them. They have both. And anyway, building them their own personal Gurdwaras where they can be cut off from everyone else is hardly going to make them feel less like social pariahs is it LOL? The problem they are facing is Jatt supremacist ideology which alienates them in Guru Ghars and pushes them into the arms of cults, and to address this problem we need to be targeting Jatts, not Mazbhis. Luckily, there are many parchaaraks who set out to do exactly this, and even we on this forum are contributing to that debate in a humble sort of way.

[Balkaar]

surely selling punjab's land to our bretheren is better than outsiders because the local economy gets a big boost .They get land and independance they are happy, Punjab is looked after it's own children rather than getting asset stripped by outsiders and anyrevenue from crops going outside punjab's economy too. Problem with Punjabis is their NOSE is too easily cut ...

It would be better, but Punjabi culture doesn't exactly instil a mindfulness about the well-being of the economy and society. All people care about is making money for themselves, selling their land to the highest bidder so they can send their poor and unemployed kids to the West, where they can still be poor and unemployed but with more rain and KFC.

[StarStriker]

Can you please enlighten us and tell what caste were all our Guru's Maharaj? What caste women did they marry into?

Guru tegh bahadur married a gujjar.

[sikhiseeker]

The poster "Quantivus" has highlighted the problem with this very subject within his/her post based on their personal opinion.

It is not about building SEPARATE caste based gurdware or counting how many Sikh contributors to the faith were of jatt ancestry. That's the point right there. These individuals did it for sikhi and the panth which preaches no caste lol? They gave their lives for the tenets of Sikhi.

Until we see all our mahaan shaheed as contributors to sikhi and the panth without looking at caste, we can then move on.

It does not just affect sikh from mazhabi ancestry, it affects us all.

The usual arguments will come into debate like "who did the gurus marry" and "what caste were they". Fact of the matter and fact based on gurmat is caste has no place in sikhi. Either in marriage or either in contribution. Only when you condemn caste supremacy issues, can you really move forward as a guru ka sikh.

Guru Nanak Dev ji, denounced his caste by not accepting his janeu. He then in later life adopted farming. Surely this demonstrates that a job is a job. Over time anyone can become professional within their profession. However it sea that over time, we still have not adopted Guru Nanak Dev Jis sikhi and moved forward with him.