Why Nanaksar Ragiis Are Celibate

[Akalifauj]

A little closer to home: Terry Wogan was married and had children of his own........Jimmy Saville did not.

Throughout the world....across all races and creeds....the 'celibate' order has always attracted those with secret/latent homosexual / pervert tendancies who wish to hide under the cloak of 'being devoted to god' lest people find out how they cannot, in real life, maintain a normal healthy sexual relationship with an adult of the opposite sex.

Never ever trust a 'celibate' man but more importantly never leave a 'celibate' man alone with your kids.

How many cases on here alone have surfaced where a father, married uncle, cousin was molesting a child? This is stranger danger all over again. The western community has learned it's lesson from "stranger danger" and found out the person most likely to molest a child is one who is a relative. This is very true in the Punjabi community, since more research is coming out. Many young adults and teens are coming out with the truth of how they were molested as a child and 99% of the time it's by a married uncle or heterosexual cousin or close family relative who is married. And for the parcharaks, majority are married and who have molested children. Most recent adultery case was against Shivteg Singh of the missionary group who is also married. Look at Dateline NBC. The people they bust are married or heterosexual males wanting to molest young girls who are around 13 years old. The views the poster has posted above is very prevalent in the missionary community. They live in denial of how heterosexual married people cannot molest children or behave like homosexuals Stats are saying exactly the opposite. Its the married folk molesting your children and showing homosexual tendency through raping young boys. Lastly the missionary cults hate Sikh Saints (Sants). It's like someone programmed them to have pure hate toward them. So to defame them, they say these disgusting things about them, which are true only in a small number of case. Yet we have this clear cut knowledge pointing to how its the married uncle or father who is molesting children.

I know this post is off track, but this misconception has to be rooted out of the younger generation minds for their own safety.

[singhbj singh]

Need to look no further than 1984. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was Grahist, he had a wife and children while Santa Singh was a celibate. One is the pride of the Panth while the other is the shame.

So we definitely should be under no illusion that some how celibacy will make you a better Sikh leader.

Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji left Anandpur Sahib after request by Sangat on order of Punj Piyaras.

Bhindranwale should have known better !

[singhbj singh]

There's a couple of Singhs I know who wanted to forgo grisht jeevan and undertake seva back home (the genuine type of seva: feeding the poor, helping with construction projects of schools, hospitals, etc, not swanning around in luxury cars up and down English motorways whilst living the life of Riley). But in recent years they've been quite disturbed at how many high-profile scandals involving closeted Singhs have hit the headlines; Singhs who professed married life was not for them due to some "higher calling" but were in fact getting up to all sorts of shenanigans - some gay, some otherwise - under the pretence of being celibate.

That really did dissuade them from remaining single, lol, so they bit the bullet and did the needful. I can't say I blame them!

I agree it's better to get married then be a hypocrite.

But you can't say all celibate Mahapurakhs are notorious & corrupt.

[MisterrSingh]

I agree it's better to get married then be a hypocrite.

But you can't say all celibate Mahapurakhs are notorious & corrupt.

I'm not, brother. But it's the few rotten apples that give the genuine cases cause to reconsider their plans. I'd never besmirch, or even think of besmirching, a genuine mahapurash who's practiced what they've preached all their lives.

[InderjitS]

Bhindranwale should have known better !

Care to expand?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji left Anandpur Sahib after request by Sangat on order of Punj Piyaras.

Bhindranwale should have known better !

Did you make a comparison of a man, to the Satguru?

[sikhni777]

Don't jump the gun !

First one has to surrender Tan, Man, Dhan.

Later sing Gurbani.

Anand sahib dha path as you will agree talks to lets say our eyes, ears, our body and our mun. eh netro mereyo, eh sanvno mereyo, eh sarira mereya and eh mun mereya. There is updesh for each part of the body depending on their function. what is for the ears cannot be for the eyes, what is for the mun cannot be done by body etc.

In the same way bhaji there is updesh for avo Sikh Satgur ke peyaro gavo sachi bani.

The tan mum dhan pauri which you are quoting is a guidance to the sant. We have simply not reached that level. We are still on the level of trying to conquer our mind, eyes and ears. Gursikhs can sing only ... Gun gavat teri upras mel, binas jaye Haume ... in Sukhmani. If we follow that pauri then we can see how further progress will be made.

However Sant have already conquered their ego. updesh for sant is different because they can do the akath kahani of God.

ਆਵਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਪਿਆਰਿਹੋ ਅਕਥ ਕੀ ਕਰਹ ਕਹਾਣੀ ॥

आवहु संत पिआरिहो अकथ की करह कहाणी ॥

Āvhu sanṯ pi▫āriho akath kī karah kahāṇī.

Come, Beloved Saints, let us speak the Unspoken Speech of the Lord.

ਕਰਹ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਅਕਥ ਕੇਰੀ ਕਿਤੁ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਪਾਈਐ ॥

करह कहाणी अकथ केरी कितु दुआरै पाईऐ ॥

Karah kahāṇī akath kerī kiṯ ḏu▫ārai pā▫ī▫ai.

How can we speak the Unspoken Speech of the Lord? Through which door will we find Him?

ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਸਉਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਉ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਪਾਈਐ ॥

तनु मनु धनु सभु सउपि गुर कउ हुकमि मंनिऐ पाईऐ ॥

Ŧan man ḏẖan sabẖ sa▫up gur ka▫o hukam mani▫ai pā▫ī▫ai.

Surrender body, mind, wealth, and everything to the Guru; obey the Order of His Will, and you will find Him.

ਹੁਕਮੁ ਮੰਨਿਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੇਰਾ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਸਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

हुकमु मंनिहु गुरू केरा गावहु सची बाणी ॥

Hukam mannihu gurū kerā gāvhu sacẖī baṇī.

Obey the Hukam of the Guru's Command, and sing the True Word of His Bani.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਕਥਿਹੁ ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਣੀ ॥੯॥

कहै नानकु सुणहु संतहु कथिहु अकथ कहाणी ॥९॥

Kahai Nānak suṇhu sanṯahu kathihu akath kahāṇī. ||9||

Says Nanak, listen, O Saints, and speak the Unspoken Speech of the Lord. ||9||

In the same way Bhagats are explained. Hope you understand that there is a difference in Gurbani as to Gursikh, Bhagats, sants and the Gurus.

ਭਗਤਾ ਕੀ ਚਾਲ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ॥

भगता की चाल निराली ॥

Bẖagṯā kī cẖāl nirālī.

The lifestyle of the devotees is unique and distinct.

ਚਾਲਾ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ਭਗਤਾਹ ਕੇਰੀ ਬਿਖਮ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਚਲਣਾ ॥

चाला निराली भगताह केरी बिखम मारगि चलणा ॥

Cẖālā nirālī bẖagṯāh kerī bikẖam mārag cẖalṇā.

The devotees' lifestyle is unique and distinct; they follow the most difficult path.

ਲਬੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਤਜਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਬੋਲਣਾ ॥

लबु लोभु अहंकारु तजि त्रिसना बहुतु नाही बोलणा ॥

Lab lobẖ ahaʼnkār ṯaj ṯarisnā bahuṯ nāhī bolṇā.

They renounce greed, avarice, egotism and desire; they do not talk too much.

ਖੰਨਿਅਹੁ ਤਿਖੀ ਵਾਲਹੁ ਨਿਕੀ ਏਤੁ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

खंनिअहु तिखी वालहु निकी एतु मारगि जाणा ॥

Kẖanni▫ahu ṯikẖī vālahu nikī eṯ mārag jāṇā.

The path they take is sharper than a two-edged sword, and finer than a hair.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਆਪੁ ਤਜਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਵਾਸਨਾ ਸਮਾਣੀ ॥

गुर परसादी जिनी आपु तजिआ हरि वासना समाणी ॥

Gur parsādī jinī āp ṯaji▫ā har vāsnā samāṇī.

By Guru's Grace, they shed their selfishness and conceit; their hopes are merged in the Lord.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਚਾਲ ਭਗਤਾ ਜੁਗਹੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ॥੧੪॥

कहै नानकु चाल भगता जुगहु जुगु निराली ॥१४॥

Kahai Nānak cẖāl bẖagṯā jugahu jug nirālī. ||14||

Says Nanak, the lifestyle of the devotees, in each and every age, is unique and distinct. ||14||

We cannot say that Gursikhs will be able to achieve what Sants, bhagats or Gurus could do. Obviously Gursikhs are still at the stage where they need to understand and start to practice what Guru Ji said. This is why Gursikhs follow Gristi jeevan because that is the updesh of Guru Ji for us. They are not yet perfectified to stand single and to carry their lives without loosing the way. This is why ordinary people claim to be celibates but they cannot be the same standard of celibates which the sants or bhagats are capable of. Gursikhs of course have a high moral standard. Sikhs are just sikhs .... they need to start to follow the Guru yet. They are following their mind. eh mun chanchla chatrai kine na paya.

All Gursikhs, bhagats and Sants operate under the instructions of Guru Ji.

[singhbj singh]

Bhein ji the topic is about Mahapurakhs not commoners.

According to me top two celibate Mahapurakhs are

1) Bibi Prakash Kaur ji (Unique Home for girls)

2) Baba Iqbal Singh ji (Baru Sahib)

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Mahapurakhs were both celibate and gristhi. Unless someone here is a Brahm-Gyani to be able to tell which Mahapurakh was "superior" to another, let's agree that there is no requirement to be one or the other. Then, Gurbani quotes, which focus on self-surrender, were posted - none of which implies that either gristhi or bihungum lifestyle is preferred. It is a question of controlling the mind, not marriage status is.

Vaaran Bhai Gurdas examplify Guru Nanak Sahib's crusade to ensure that celibacy loses its "superior" religious status. His dialog with celibates is adequately documented there and every time, Guru Nanak Sahib dismissed the ego and hamkaar of celibates, who were quick to dismiss gristhis as ever being capable of mastering any spiritual path, and chided them by saying you insult the very people who you beg at the door of and did not the celibates come into this world as a product of gristhi jeevan?

Saying anything against Sant Jarnail Singh had better come with evidence. Who were the Punj Pyare who told Sant Ji to leave Harmandir Sahib? If your father's house is being attacked, would you not defend it? What right does the Indian government have over Harmandir Sahib? It is as much at Sant Jarnail Singh's home as it is any other Sikh's - he has absolute right to defend an attack on his home (do you not call your father's/mother's home your own)? This antiquated argument is flawed to the core.

Again, there is NO special status of celibates in Sikhi. One can choose to be celibate or married and live Sikhi to its fullest. Many gristhi Mahapurakhs have done seva in the Punj Pyare and led the Panth through difficult times. Guru Sahiban were themselves gristhi.

[Akalifauj]

Anand sahib dha path as you will agree talks to lets say our eyes, ears, our body and our mun. eh netro mereyo, eh sanvno mereyo, eh sarira mereya and eh mun mereya. There is updesh for each part of the body depending on their function. what is for the ears cannot be for the eyes, what is for the mun cannot be done by body etc.

In the same way bhaji there is updesh for avo Sikh Satgur ke peyaro gavo sachi bani.

The tan mum dhan pauri which you are quoting is a guidance to the sant. We have simply not reached that level. We are still on the level of trying to conquer our mind, eyes and ears. Gursikhs can sing only ... Gun gavat teri upras mel, binas jaye Haume ... in Sukhmani. If we follow that pauri then we can see how further progress will be made.

However Sant have already conquered their ego. updesh for sant is different because they can do the akath kahani of God.

We cannot say that Gursikhs will be able to achieve what Sants, bhagats or Gurus could do. Obviously Gursikhs are still at the stage where they need to understand and start to practice what Guru Ji said. This is why Gursikhs follow Gristi jeevan because that is the updesh of Guru Ji for us. They are not yet perfectified to stand single and to carry their lives without loosing the way. This is why ordinary people claim to be celibates but they cannot be the same standard of celibates which the sants or bhagats are capable of. Gursikhs of course have a high moral standard. Sikhs are just sikhs .... they need to start to follow the Guru yet. They are following their mind. eh mun chanchla chatrai kine na paya.

All Gursikhs, bhagats and Sants operate under the instructions of Guru Ji.

You come to a conclusion....Sant are celibate therefore they reach a higher stage.........yet you provide no evidence to show Sant's who were or are celibate are at higher stage (holier) according to Gurbani. You first have to prove celibacy by Gurbani standards is higher in spirituality than a householder and then prove a Sant who is celibate is higher than a householder Sant. You have not provided one piece of evidence. Let's remind you, Bhagat Dhanna Jatt ji actually asked for a wife through Gurbani. Listen to Aarti and the Shabad is sung everyday. Bhagat ji wanted to live a householder lifestyle. If living a householder lifestyle was lower according to Gurbani, Bhagat ji would not have asked for a wife from Akal Purakh. No where in Gurbani does Guru Sahib say celibacy is the highest stage. The people who believe in the vedas actually say celibacy is the highest stage. Guru Sahib, whether talking to a celibate person or householder says to focus on Naam, take the Guru's guidance and make Naam your life. State of liberation is not reserved for anyone special like you say for celibate Sants. Sri Anand Sahib says to all Sikhs, come Sikhs and sing Satguru's Bani. The instructions are for everyone, including Sants and Bhagats. Everyone is under the order of Satguru. Those who follow his order receive his blessing. You nitpick at Anand Sahib da paath. First you quote the ninth pauri. If Sant here meant Sant in the form of one person who has reached the state of Sant (conquered mind) and not calling the collective sangat Sant. Then why latter on in the pauri is the Guru instructing the Sant to conquer his mind by giving his body, mind and wealth to Guru Sahib? Sants already follow the Hukam of Akal Purakh, yet Guru Sahib is instructing Sants to follow his order???