Why Nanaksar Ragiis Are Celibate

[InderjitS]

This is such a petty, and small issue. If someone wants to have a picture of a human being who only teaches about our Paramatma ji, then let them. To waste breaths in this life about such small things such as photos is foolish. Umar thori hai, Satguru de charan pakaro.

It is a dangerous path once on it. Go to Rara Sahib and they have made a shrine to Sant Isher Singh where you will find a collection of their shoes, perfumes and other personal property. I last went in '99 and the Baba at the time had no qualms about people touching his feet. He looked at my brother and I with what seemed to be disdain as we said our Fateh and moved on.

No harm in having pictures of Gursikhs and Shaheeds outside of the Darbar, but inside no such paintings should exist, otherwise as PK states it enters the realm of human worship in the minds of those who are that way inclined. Those massive portraits just behind Guru Sahib serve no purpose, they can just as well sit in the Langar Hall with excerpts of the pious lives they led.

[InderjitS]

That's interesting. My knowledge about Idol worship was that it is only Idol worship if we are actually worshiping from the mind on that object. For example, in my room there is a picture of a tree, when I recite Gurbani, does that mean I am worshiping that tree image? My mind is focused on Gurbani and cannot be bothered about what is in our surroundings. So, if an individual is doing phaat/tapasya, and have no intention of 'Idol worship' even if there are many images of anything, then it is not Idol worship if they are only praying from within, right?

What purpose does a picture of a human serve in the diwan hall? The mind should focus on Shabad Guru and no be distracted by paintings of humans. Ultimately the intention of the committees having these portraits hanging play a big part as well as the minds of those who attend. Our dhiaan should be as described in the pangti:

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨ ॥

ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਰਿਦੈ ਲੈ ਧਾਰਉ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥1॥

[simran345]

When I go to any of the Nanaksar Gurdwara, I been to, to be honest I don't even realise the pictures are there. Our focus should be on Guruji's words, listening to what they are saying and bowing down to them only.

Even I don't know why the pictures are there. I have never bowed down to the other pictures or worshipped them in any way.

I wouldn't say Nanaksar samparda are doing idol worship, as far as my understanding is, they have good Satkaar for Maharaj ji, and this sounds odd, but I've never seen any committee fights or any kind of violence or inappropriate behaviour in the Gurdwaras, whereas I've heard of it in others.

[sikhni777]

I was recently reading somewhere that their Baba Ji stresses on the use of pictures so that the mind can have an image to concentrate on. He recommends the use of mala as well - it is for our fingers to feel something and as a result it helps our concentration when doing path or bhagti. God does not have any paticular image as such. So Guru Nanak Dev jis photo is the one which Baba ji tells people to sit and focus on to keep the mind still. When the photo is not there then it is still engraved in the mind and it helps concentration and better connection to the divine.

This is parallel to something else I was reading where people are training themselves to up their concentration levels. It was about a painter who was asked to paint a certain picture of a landscape without having access to his first main draft. He managed to reproduce it excellently.

We have to realise that it is our mind which is the tricky one here. It is the one which keeps leading us astray from the one basic requirement which is say Waheguru with every breath. It is the mind which makes excuses like I will do it later. its a waste of time. I need some excitement. Here come some distractions so that I dont have to do my simran. My sleep is more important without which I will have a bad day.

God is without form and he will keep existing and stay the same - it is we who are going from body to body, jug from jug, janam to janam. Our mind is the horse which leads us in that direction.

mun pankhi payeo. The mind is like a bird which will keep flying everywhere. The sangat which we get is of the utmost importance. Our sangat will determine what we are going to plant and we are going to reap accordingly.

We are just so helplessly stuck and caught up in the darkness of our mind. The state of which is explained in gurbani as janam janam ki mel laghi is mun ko. kala peya siya. It has become covered with so many layers of darkness that it is going to be a great effort to clean it. Therefore we need the most help we can. concentration on path here is supreme. It can be better achieved by giving the mind one focus Waheguru and photo of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and mala.

Baba Ji stresses the use of Guru Nanak Dev jis photo in the home as well. As we look at it day and night we are going to develop a divine image in our mind which will eventually lead us to control our mind and concentrate it on the one Waheguru who is formless.

My first connections with the Gurus as a child began with the photos of the first and tenth Gurus which my mum had placed in our room. Think about it people do keep photos of footballers and actresses and keep looking at them and admiring them. Why do we start doubting and debating when it comes to the picture of the divine atma who came to rescue us all in the form of Guru Nanak Dev ji??

A photo will also make us aware of the presence of God everywhere in the room and extending outwards too. A lady in the Guradwara was telling us about the photo of Guru Ji which was in their living room. The men wanted to have a drink and felt guilty. So they insisted that the Photo of Guru Ji be removed so that they indulge without guilty feeling as they were afraid to do beadhbhi in that room.

So that is the power of the photo of the divine. It makes us aware of his presence. It is more for our dark dark dirty mind which is covered with the dirt from all the jugs for we were existing in satyug, treta jug and dhuapur jug but we were not fortunate enough to obtain mukti. This is now the last yug which is kaljug. Bhai Gurdaas shiya vaara state this fact. as do the bhagats and tell us this is your chance. Take it. Who knows whether you will be a human being in your next janam?

https://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/1/pauri/15

[simran345]

I was recently reading somewhere that their Baba Ji stresses on the use of pictures so that the mind can have an image to concentrate on.

God is without form and he will keep existing and stay the same - it is we who are going from body to body, jug from jug, janam to janam. Our mind is the horse which leads us in that direction.

mun pankhi payeo. The mind is like a bird which will keep flying everywhere. The sangat which we get is of the utmost importance. Our sangat will determine what we are going to plant and we are going to reap accordingly.

We are just so helplessly stuck and caught up in the darkness of our mind. The state of which is explained in gurbani as janam janam ki mel laghi is mun ko. kala peya siya. It has become covered with so many layers of darkness that it is going to be a great effort to clean it. Therefore we need the most help we can. concentration on path here is supreme. It can be better achieved by giving the mind one focus Waheguru and photo of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and mala.

Baba Ji stresses the use of Guru Nanak Dev jis photo in the home as well. As we look at it day and night we are going to develop a divine image in our mind which will eventually lead us to control our mind and concentrate it on the one Waheguru who is formless.

My first connections with the Gurus as a child began with the photos of the first and tenth Gurus which my mum had placed in our room. Think about it people do keep photos of footballers and actresses and keep looking at them and admiring them. Why do we start doubting and debating when it comes to the picture of the divine atma who came to rescue us all in the form of Guru Nanak Dev ji??

A photo will also make us aware of the presence of God everywhere in the room and extending outwards too. A lady in the Guradwara was telling us about the photo of Guru Ji which was in their living room. The men wanted to have a drink and felt guilty. So they insisted that the Photo of Guru Ji be removed so that they indulge without guilty feeling as they were afraid to do beadhbhi in that room.

So that is the power of the photo of the divine. It makes us aware of his presence. It is more for our dark dark dirty mind which is covered with the dirt from all the jugs for we were existing in satyug, treta jug and dhuapur jug but we were not fortunate enough to obtain mukti. This is now the last yug which is kaljug. Bhai Gurdaas shiya vaara state this fact. as do the bhagats and tell us this is your chance. Take it. Who knows whether you will be a human being in your next janam?

" their Babaji, was no ordinary man, he was a Brahmgyiani, with a lot of kamaiyee and are very rare. I am not even worth the dust under his feet. Me saying this, does not mean I worship humans, but satkaar of these blessed souls guide us on the right path, not wrong path, and that is to worship Waheguru, and bow down to them. Babaji had the highest love for Maharaj ji that normal sangat would not have. He put many families on the right path, with the grace of God.

An example is of me meeting a very elderly lady at one of the Gurdwaras. She hugged me and asked how I was, even though she didn't know me. (Maybe she got confused with somebody else, as she was quite elderly). But then she started to tell me about Baba Nand Singh ji, and how when she was young, that she seen him, her family used to go to see him and do seva at the Gurdwara.

There was no Ahankar in her words or personality, she was so happy telling me about it, like a little child, and I could see the joy in your soul, saying how lucky and blessed her family was, to have seen him. I'm not sure if she's still alive, but it was lovely to see pure respect of a Mahapursh, and it didn't come across as human worship at all. She also didn't let me help her to get up or hold her, as she was quite fragile, but gestured towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and said " Babaji mere nal a, apay sambaluge Manu"

We have a picture of Guru Nanak Dev ji in our house, which we don't treat as idol worship. Obviously they are not the real image of them, but we know that.

The reason some people don't like pictures is because they cannot accept that people only use them as tools, or reminders, and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it helps, and one does not start worshipping the frames, images etc, but to focus on Gurbani only. People are at different spiritual stages in their lives, some go off track, and then getting back is difficult. Nobody has the power of God, that everybody can connect to them without some help.

Whatever works for somebody and brings only positivity, so they don't divert to pakhandis, or human worship, then it's all good.

[sikhni777]

" their Babaji, was no ordinary man, he was a Brahmgyiani, with a lot of kamaiyee and are very rare. I am not even worth the dust under his feet. Me saying this, does not mean I worship humans, but satkaar of these blessed souls guide us on the right path, not wrong path, and that is to worship Waheguru, and bow down to them. Babaji had the highest love for Maharaj ji that normal sangat would not have. He put many families on the right path, with the grace of God.

There is a book online with numerous accounts of many people stating how Baba Ji performed many miracles. I prefer to use the word Baba Ji because I am new to reading about them both too. Baba Nand Singh Ji and Baba Isher singh Ji were true Braham gianis who never slept at night.

Yes you are right, the roop in which you will see God is all different. Rare are those people however who realise that eh sansaar har ka roop hai. Har roop nadhri aya.

The above line is from Anand Sahib. The constant reading of Gurbani will begin to show to you and remind you of God as you look at the normal world. All the examples taken from daily life get you thinking of divine principles.

An example is Kabir kukar Raam ko mutiya mero nao. Gale hamare jevrhi jae khinche te jao.

When ever I see a dog tied in a leash and being pulled by their owners, this line comes in mind. Kabir Ji says that he is a mere dog tied up by a rope which Raam (God) pulls. He goes wherever God takes him.

For a normal person or for children who have just started on the path of prayer and simran, Baba Ji recommends a photo of Guru Nanak Dev Ji so that they can progress faster and be able to make a personal connection which is important too. Every body will look at God through different sorts of eyes just as we all have different opinions about the same subject and no two posts will be equally identical in wording.

[Pakandi baba]

What purpose does a picture of a human serve in the diwan hall? The mind should focus on Shabad Guru and no be distracted by paintings of humans. Ultimately the intention of the committees having these portraits hanging play a big part as well as the minds of those who attend. Our dhiaan should be as described in the pangti:

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨ ॥

ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਰਿਦੈ ਲੈ ਧਾਰਉ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥1॥

I agree. We humans are foolish [women mostly as they adore such sants and babas]. Yes they might be holy, but they are the messengers but people forget that and start to bow, touch feet, math tek to such, this is the spiral, it begins then ends with what I've written about.

I see no use in touching feet of such. Satkar of the higest form is to say the Fateh, yet some hate this and expect matha tek, this is egotism. Sitting upon lion skin and posing is not the humbleness of such devoted mahapursh

[Pakandi baba]

I was recently reading somewhere that their Baba Ji stresses on the use of pictures so that the mind can have an image to concentrate on. He recommends the use of mala as well - it is for our fingers to feel something and as a result it helps our concentration when doing path or bhagti. God does not have any paticular image as such. So Guru Nanak Dev jis photo is the one which Baba ji tells people to sit and focus on to keep the mind still. When the photo is not there then it is still engraved in the mind and it helps concentration and better connection to the divine.

This is parallel to something else I was reading where people are training themselves to up their concentration levels. It was about a painter who was asked to paint a certain picture of a landscape without having access to his first main draft. He managed to reproduce it excellently.

We have to realise that it is our mind which is the tricky one here. It is the one which keeps leading us astray from the one basic requirement which is say Waheguru with every breath. It is the mind which makes excuses like I will do it later. its a waste of time. I need some excitement. Here come some distractions so that I dont have to do my simran. My sleep is more important without which I will have a bad day.

God is without form and he will keep existing and stay the same - it is we who are going from body to body, jug from jug, janam to janam. Our mind is the horse which leads us in that direction.

mun pankhi payeo. The mind is like a bird which will keep flying everywhere. The sangat which we get is of the utmost importance. Our sangat will determine what we are going to plant and we are going to reap accordingly.

We are just so helplessly stuck and caught up in the darkness of our mind. The state of which is explained in gurbani as janam janam ki mel laghi is mun ko. kala peya siya. It has become covered with so many layers of darkness that it is going to be a great effort to clean it. Therefore we need the most help we can. concentration on path here is supreme. It can be better achieved by giving the mind one focus Waheguru and photo of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and mala.

Baba Ji stresses the use of Guru Nanak Dev jis photo in the home as well. As we look at it day and night we are going to develop a divine image in our mind which will eventually lead us to control our mind and concentrate it on the one Waheguru who is formless.

My first connections with the Gurus as a child began with the photos of the first and tenth Gurus which my mum had placed in our room. Think about it people do keep photos of footballers and actresses and keep looking at them and admiring them. Why do we start doubting and debating when it comes to the picture of the divine atma who came to rescue us all in the form of Guru Nanak Dev ji??

A photo will also make us aware of the presence of God everywhere in the room and extending outwards too. A lady in the Guradwara was telling us about the photo of Guru Ji which was in their living room. The men wanted to have a drink and felt guilty. So they insisted that the Photo of Guru Ji be removed so that they indulge without guilty feeling as they were afraid to do beadhbhi in that room.

So that is the power of the photo of the divine. It makes us aware of his presence. It is more for our dark dark dirty mind which is covered with the dirt from all the jugs for we were existing in satyug, treta jug and dhuapur jug but we were not fortunate enough to obtain mukti. This is now the last yug which is kaljug. Bhai Gurdaas shiya vaara state this fact. as do the bhagats and tell us this is your chance. Take it. Who knows whether you will be a human being in your next janam?

https://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/1/pauri/15

You do realise NOBODY knows what the Guru Ji looks like?

These drawings are not a real depiction of them just what is perceived by the artist, if you use this to think of Guru Ji then Gurbani which is the deh and sarir of the Guru Ji is not working for you....

Now, it begins with a photo, then an effigy, then an idol, then a dehthari....it is always this way

I see a pattern in your posts and the fascination with photos.

[InderjitS]

For a normal person or for children who have just started on the path of prayer and simran, Baba Ji recommends a photo of Guru Nanak Dev Ji so that they can progress faster and be able to make a personal connection which is important too. Every body will look at God through different sorts of eyes just as we all have different opinions about the same subject and no two posts will be equally identical in wording.

All people are different and see Vaheguru in different ways, which is why we have Gurbani to guide us and see the flaws in our thinking and place us 'all' on Gurmat Marag and not to rely on 'deh' alive or otherwise. No Saadh or Mahapurash can be compared to Guru Sahib who was the incarnation of Vaheguru on Earth and therefore to reiterate these paintings have no place in the Darbar. I've heard people use pangtis from Sukhmani Sahib to justify that a Brahmgiani is also Parmeshar/Nirankar, so its ok to use these depictions. The lines are incorrectly interpreted to satisfy their own needs, so with these photos we see garlands and people swaying side to side with incense sticks in their hands and even matha tek. If that's not idol worship what is?

[InderjitS]

When I go to any of the Nanaksar Gurdwara, I been to, to be honest I don't even realise the pictures are there. Our focus should be on Guruji's words, listening to what they are saying and bowing down to them only.

Even I don't know why the pictures are there. I have never bowed down to the other pictures or worshipped them in any way.

I wouldn't say Nanaksar samparda are doing idol worship, as far as my understanding is, they have good Satkaar for Maharaj ji, and this sounds odd, but I've never seen any committee fights or any kind of violence or inappropriate behaviour in the Gurdwaras, whereas I've heard of it in others.

Indeed they have maximum satkar and I am always impressed with the way they have a much larger and grand Takhat for Guru Ji in comparison to other Gurdwaras in the West.