Why Are Some Sikh Women Now Wearing The Turban?

[BSingh87]

I once had a conversation with an AKJ follower who tried to tell me how special Randhir Singh Grewal because he could turn copper into gold, and indeed that was one of the main reasons many came to follow him in the first place. The fact that the UK born AKJ follower said that to me though, revealed 2 things: Firstly, how uneducated the average Sikh in Punjab was in those days and secondly how badly educated many of the current generation of UK born Sikhs still are. You see, Randhir Singh was an educated man and he knew that those lacking education could be easily made to follow. So, I told my AKJ friend that if he was so easily impressed with such basic chemistry than he should get me a 2 penny coin, a glass cup and some zinc sulpate. Within a couple of minutes I said, I too will be able to turn copper into silver. And if has some strong heat available I could turn that silver into gold. Just like Randhir Singh. But there's 2 things to remember here: I'm not the type of person that wants to get uneducated people to follow me by performing science 'tricks' for them and in this day and age western born Sikhs should be educated enough to understand that a man that took away Raagmala from Gurbani because he personally didn't care for it too much is exactly the same as the modern day 'missionaries' who also want to cut some of Guru Ji's limbs off because they don't particularly care for them too much.

So, now that I've made that clear, let me repeat what I said before: The issue of Dastars and females should not be argued on the basis of support or non-support for AKJ or any other groups. It is pure and simple Sikhi that a Sikh amritdhari female MUST wear a dastar, otherwise she is NOT a Sikh.

Don't worry, you aren't the only delusional person out there who lacks 100% understanding of Bhai Randhir Singh Jee and AKJ, and has done nindia of him. What this so called "Sikh", if this person even exists, told you for the reason why people join the Jatha, is completely false and nonsense. You obviously have not met many Sikhs associated with AKJ to generalise to such a ridiculous extent. This shows your ignorance, actually your whole comment showed entire ignorance of AKJ and Bhai Randhir Singh Jee. If you want to understand AKJ, don't talk to children, talk to an elder like Bhai Jarnail Singh Jee, Bhai Tarsem Singh Jee etc in the UK or talk to Gurmat Bibek Sikh such as Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee in Canada (he will rip you into shreds in the most humble and compassionate way lol). They have a forum you can ask questions on, http://gurmatbibek.com/ Or why don't you read Bhai Randhir Singh Jee's books for starters. It's funny how Sikhs who hate AKJ insult Bhai Sahib whereas Sikhs associated with AKJ do not do the same with other saints who have different beliefs but instead respect them. Lastly, you must truly be kidding yourself if you think Bhai Sahib was a egotistical devious person, he was extremely humble and honest. I have nothing further to say, no need to waste my time further on this.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Despite my better judgement, I am going to address the rather disturbing trend of anti-AKJ sentiment prevalent in this forum amongst some of its users.

Have any of you actually done any Sangat of kamai vale Gursikhs from AKJ? I could cite plenty of examples of Sikhs (usually youth, but there are plenty of elders that stir the pot) from other Jathebandis making idiotic statements, but I would not presume to label them good representation of their respective Jathebandis.

I have had a chance to do Sangat with Gursikhs from Damdami Taksal, AKJ, Nanaksar and Nihungs. You learn one thing: They all are Naam Rasiyae, lovers of Gurbani and humble Guru Ke Sikhs who are trying to achieve unity with Akaal Purakh. Bairaag, Simran, Baani and Nimarta - that was their life.

The store about making gold as presented in Jail Chittian by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh (he was accorded this title through the Akaal Takht Sahib) is below. The TL/DR summary is Bhai Sahib was given the formula to convert copper to gold and he disposed of it when he realized it was corrupting his mind. Many of the youth who claim to be AKJ are far from understanding anything about Bhai Sahib's life, his books or Gurmat principles he wrote about in his books (this holds true for youth of other Jathebandian as well and the respective Mahapurakhs that graced the planet affialiated with a Jathebandi). Go do actual Sangat of UK Gursikhs who have done some kamai and have jeevans (Bhai Jarnail Singh, Bhai Tarsem Singh, etc.) and get to see what they are like. Our own divisions and prejudices are so counter-productive to the one Khalsa Panth and we are its biggest enemy.

"Within two or three days Hira Singh procured from outside a piece of copper and some chemicals, through some inmate. He gave me the formula according to which I experimented with the chemi‐ cals, and the copper was completely changed into gold. Through an extremely reliable person we sent it to the assayer in the bullion market, and the purity of the gold so formed was established. Hira Singh had written down the chemical formulas for me, and now he urged me to memorize them as it was not safe to keep a record of such precious formulas within the prison.

Impressed by his love and devotion for me I agreed to memorize the formulas of making gold. The feat of memorizing the chemical formulas was an ordeal for me. I felt that my mind, which had attained purity and peace, once more started accumulating poison. My mind drifted to all the vagaries possible out of the lust for gold. Like a man building castles in the air, I felt I had already become a millionaire, and subconsciously even planned to use most of the money for charitable purposes. A few days earlier my mind was absorbed in the contemplation of Divine Name, repeated with every breath, and I enjoyed the highest blessings of spiritual enlightenment. The light and love of God had become a part of my inner being.

But now the concentration and peaceful poise of my mind was terribly shaken, and I thought of nothing else but the untold capacity to make gold and infinite material power I could accumulate. The love and devotion to God receded to the background. I could not even contemplate the Name of God nor recite Gurbani, with the same zeal and regularity. My inner condition can well be described by the following lines from the scriptures: He who forgets the Word of God, Cries in agony like a sufferer from chronic malady. Guru Nanak: Rag Dhanasri p. 661 For the first time in my life, the peace of my mind and my contemplative life was seriously upset. For the first time my mind fell to such a low level, and was thrown into a state of confusion. Ever since I entered the life of divine illumination this was the first time my mind was unbalanced, and the first time my mind was polluted by the thought of wealth. The whole night passed in brooding over all the things I could possibly do with the art of making gold.

The formula of making gold inflamed my earthly ambitions and made my pure as gold heart and soul as coarse and lifeless as a stone. Early in the morning I found myself in this pitiable condition. Just then, the servant brought a lighted stove for me to cook my meals. Bhai Hira Singh also came there and asked me: "Have you memorized all the formulas, Bhai Sahib?" I took out the piece of paper containing the formulas of making gold and threw them into the fire. I then stood in silent prayer before God, with folded hands and sought the Lord's forgiveness for letting my mind drift into greed and lust for gold, and I also prayed that I might completely forget all that I had learnt about it. I did not like to think of the gold‐formula even in a dream.

Bhai Hira Singh was stunned and shocked at what I did and said: "What a terrible thing you have done? People were prepared to pay me lakhs of rupees for the knowledge of but one formula. I gave you all that I knew. Kings, jewellers and millionaires were prepared to stake all their fortune for the knowledge of this formula. You have destroyed it in a minute. You have thrown away the world's greatest treasure. I may not live long. I may not even get an opportunity to explain it to you again. There is very little hope of my life being prolonged. It is not possible for us to meet in seclusion again. I doubt whether you have memorized a single chemical formula for changing copper into gold. I doubt if you would care to remember whatever you have already memorized. Your face tells me that it has upset you very much. Why should persons like you who are dedicated to the welfare of humanity, be ever depressed by the knowledge of this art? You are not one of those who would use it for your personal benefit or to satisfy your greed. Give up this mood of dejection. I will write the formulas for you again. You can easily memorize them within a week. I will put you to test when you have memorized them."

"I am grateful to you, my friend?" replied I, "for revealing to me the secret of making gold which you withheld from your dearest and nearest, but I am not the right customer for it." 'If one sells a precious thing to an undeserving customer it will go cheap; but if one finds willing customer one's precious gift will sell for lakhs.' You want me to do good to the world through gold, under compulsion of materialistic ideal in which I have no faith: Service done under compulsion Is neither a virtue nor charity; "I feel I will have to pay a great price for this business of gold, which I cannot afford to pay. I had just started only memorizing the gold formula, and not making gold, when my mind, heart, and soul have been thrown into a terrible state of confusion. God knows, how low I might have fallen, if I had actually started making gold. The true Guru has saved me from the pit and turned my mind away from it."

[JagsawSingh]

Don't worry, you aren't the only delusional person out there who lacks 100% understanding of Bhai Randhir Singh Jee and AKJ, and has done nindia of him. What this so called "Sikh", if this person even exists, told you for the reason why people join the Jatha, is completely false and nonsense. You obviously have not met many Sikhs associated with AKJ to generalise to such a ridiculous extent. This shows your ignorance, actually your whole comment showed entire ignorance of AKJ and Bhai Randhir Singh Jee. If you want to understand AKJ, don't talk to children, talk to an elder like Bhai Jarnail Singh Jee, Bhai Tarsem Singh Jee etc in the UK or talk to Gurmat Bibek Sikh such as Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee in Canada (he will rip you into shreds in the most humble and compassionate way lol). They have a forum you can ask questions on, http://gurmatbibek.com/ Or why don't you read Bhai Randhir Singh Jee's books for starters. It's funny how Sikhs who hate AKJ insult Bhai Sahib whereas Sikhs associated with AKJ do not do the same with other saints who have different beliefs but instead respect them. Lastly, you must truly be kidding yourself if you think Bhai Sahib was a egotistical devious person, he was extremely humble and honest. I have nothing further to say, no need to waste my time further on this.

OK...seeing as you're one of the enlightened ones: Whats so different about Randhir Singh cutting Guru ji's limbs off because it didn't fit with his qualli style of music and these modern day 'missionaries' that want to cut some limbs off because it doesn't fit in with their thinking ?

I want you....an AKJ follower....to justift the cutting off of our Guru's limbs.

Lets here it.

and....

Bhai Sahib was given the formula to convert copper to gold and he disposed of it when he realized it was corrupting his mind.

What ?

Every child on planet earth that studies science at school learns the formula for turning copper into gold so just what kind of 'mind' was this that gets corrupted so easily and for such a silly reason ?

[BSingh87]

OK...seeing as you're one of the enlightened ones: Whats so different about Randhir Singh cutting Guru ji's limbs off because it didn't fit with his qualli style of music and these modern day 'missionaries' that want to cut some limbs off because it doesn't fit in with their thinking ?

I want you....an AKJ follower....to justift the cutting off of our Guru's limbs.

Lets here it.

You obviously do not care to hear an answer otherwise you would ask these questions on the gurmat bibek website or any of the mentioned Sikhs in person who are there to answer questions like these which I already stated in my previous post. Also, every Sikh that takes amrit from AKJ are told to call themselves Guru Gobind Singh Jee's Sikh, not an AKJ follower.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Go ahead, tell me what is the formula for turning copper to gold? I'll be glad to weigh in on it. Not plating, but actually solid gold. Pray tell who has the chemical formula to perform a nuclear reaction and rearrange atoms from copper to gold (that is what alchemy actually is, not plating). Go ahead, post it. I'll weigh it with my 8-9 years collective of chemistry study. This isn't some random plating foolery or a theoretical exercise being described - it would be turning a lump of solid copper to solid gold through a chemical reaction.

Let's just ignore that Sant Jarnail Singh, Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh, Sant Attar Singh were Sangi-Sathis of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh. Let's ignore that Sant Jarnail Singh (who staunchly was a proponent of Raagmala) slapped his own nephew for violating Akaal Takht Sahib maryada for forcing reading of Raagmala when the maryada was to do bhog withou Raagmala. Let's forget that the Sikh Rehat Maryada clearly states that there is a controversy over Raagmala. Never mind that the majority of Keertan is being done in the harmonium by all Raagis and they are not adhering to prescribed raags and times (and most do not have the knowledge to do so anyways).

No, let's create more confusion and disharmony among the Panth with threats of physical violence. Good luck to you all. May Guru Sahib do Kirpa on this Panth to remove these negative feelings and promote unity. So glad that this forum is not representative of the realities of the Panth one sees when actually doing Sangat of Gursikhs. A lot of keyboard warriors around here, to say the least.

Truly a sad state of affairs on this forum.

[MOD]

This thread has deteriorated into an asinine discussion and jatha bashing thread and now has been closed. In the future please refrain from bashing jathas and keep discussions respectful OBJECTIVE.

Any future personal attacks on individuals or any Sikh groups may warrant a quality control profile mask which will require each post of yours to be manually approved by a moderator or admin. It's very annoying for the poster and the person approving so do yourself a favor and don't get to that point.

The relevant posts have been deleted.