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Donald Trumph Jindabad (Long Live)

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MisterrSingh    2,805

It's human nature, there's no my group or your group, it's just keep taking what you can and ignore all the others.

I guess. Even freshly arrived families from back home display those kind of tendencies or cultivate a similar mentality after a short while of living in the west, so it can't be a racial / communal trait. Or at least not overwhelmingly so.

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JagsawSingh    887

It'll never happen. It should, but it won't. When our lot get a whiff of success, it's every man for himself; last one to leave turn the lights out. There's just something very uniquely selfish and individualistic about certain strands of our collective personality that is, funnily enough, a trait also found in the native English. I guess a social anthropologist might be able to narrow it down to what exactly I'm alluding to; I'm not sure I fully know it myself, lol.

Thats not the right way of looking at it. It is a sign of human development / progress that one....once one has kids to think of....moves out of an area full of drugs, crime and litter and moves into a nice family area where, at the very least, one's children will grow up speaking English properly. It is, in fact, the people that stay behind in those areas who should have their ethics and ambition questioned.For example, why on earth would any young father and mother in Southall wish for his children to grow up in what is now officially the red-light (prostitution) and drugs capital of the whole of London ? What kind of parents would willingly, out of choice, bring their children up in such an environment ?

Now, things are a little different in Canada and that is more or less a refelction of the young history of Canada and the difference in the way the 2 nations have developed. The historical development of England is of course mirrored in the historical development of the English language, i.e without any proper structure, in a haphazard way, incorporating rules and way as it goes along. In this way, there is a bit of a free for all in English neighbourhoods where homeowners can do whatever they please, such as tarmac the lawns whenever they want, cut down the trees, spit in the streets, dump their unwanted washing machines and other goods in the street. Canada, on the other hand, as a much younger nation, has a culture of civic pride where, for example, you can't pour warm water on your windscreen outside your house on icy mornings....having a civic duty to shovel up snow on the pavement....maintaining the ambience of a neighbourhood such as maintaining grassy front lawns. Thus, Sikh neighbourhoods in Canada do not suffer the same degredation the UK Sikh neighbourhoods suffer once other more undesirable elements start to move in. There are however exceptions to that rule, for a variety of reasons. For example Rexdale in Toronto. Traditionally / historically, the epicentre of Sikhs in Toronto but as it has since then acquired a very Jamaican atmosphere with crime etc most of the Sikhs of Rexdale have moved away to the nicer suburbs of Brampton etc. And its not always bad things that are the catalyst. Lets take Vancouver for example. Traditionally / historically, the epicentre of the Sikh community in BC was thee 'little Punjab' area of Vancouver. A very nice suburban area. Still is. Since then however, since the rich Hong Kong Chinese started moving in, very few Sikhs remain in Vancouver. In fact the Sikh population of Vancouver is absolutely tiny. Very few remain. Most have cashed in on the high value of their homes in Vancouver and moved to neighbouring cities such as Surrey, Richmond etc.

It is human nature, to move on. To move somewhere where your children will have a better life. Throught the history of England there has only ever been one community that lacked this human ambition of progress and that community are the Bangladeshis of the East End. For the first time ever, the nation has a community that is actually willing to stay in a dump....willing to bring their kids up in a dump. That is not normal human behaviour. Normal human behaviour is to move on to better places. Those here advocating we Sikhs follow the example of the Bengalis need to sit down and re-evaluate this line of thinking.

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Guest Jacfsing2   
Guest Jacfsing2

I guess. Even freshly arrived families from back home display those kind of tendencies or cultivate a similar mentality after a short while of living in the west, so it can't be a racial / communal trait. Or at least not overwhelmingly so.

It's not community based, some cultures don't care at all, (Non-Nomadic European folk), it's also relatively hard if your trying to find a better life from what your origin nation is.

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MisterrSingh    2,805

Thats not the right way of looking at it. It is a sign of human development / progress that one....once one has kids to think of....moves out of an area full of drugs, crime and litter and moves into a nice family area where, at the very least, one's children will grow up speaking English properly. It is, in fact, the people that stay behind in those areas who should have their ethics and ambition questioned.For example, why on earth would any young father and mother in Southall wish for his children to grow up in what is now officially the red-light (prostitution) and drugs capital of the whole of London ? What kind of parents would willingly, out of choice, bring their children up in such an environment ?

Yeah, I kinda realised I was being out of line once I'd made the post. I guess I fell victim to a bit of idealised thinking. If one has the opportunity to move to a place that's safer and more prosperous, then, particularly for families, it's a bit of a no-brainer. I dunno, I suppose I'd like to see us closer as a community and working for not just "me and my own" but also for future Sikhs who've yet to arrive in those situations.

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Ranjeet01    1,185

I did some survey/petition work at my local Gurdwara and it was quite interesting findings when we collected the data and did some statistic work.

What we found was Sikhs in our local area tend to live in the suburbs and the outskirts/peripheries of town. You have several clusters where they may be slightly more heavily populated but it seems to be spread throughout.

We do not tend to ghettoise ourselves too much as we think.

What was also quite surprising is that there are still quite a few Sikhs living in what would be deemed as traditional areas (the clustered areas), these would be the more recently arrived Sikhs.

The more established Sikhs (the second/third generation Sikh) would move into the more affluent leafy villages on the outskirts of town.

What you also find is that some of the older generations prefer to stay in the older traditional areas because they are near the shops and gurdwaras, however their sons and daughters have moved out to the leafier suburbs and nearby villages.

These are some of my anecdotal observations.

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Ranjeet01    1,185

Yeah, I kinda realised I was being out of line once I'd made the post. I guess I fell victim to a bit of idealised thinking. If one has the opportunity to move to a place that's safer and more prosperous, then, particularly for families, it's a bit of a no-brainer. I dunno, I suppose I'd like to see us closer as a community and working for not just "me and my own" but also for future Sikhs who've yet to arrive in those situations.

We are closer as a community when it is necessary to do so.

I think familiarity breeds contempt in a lot of cases.

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Thats not the right way of looking at it. It is a sign of human development / progress that one....once one has kids to think of....moves out of an area full of drugs, crime and litter and moves into a nice family area where, at the very least, one's children will grow up speaking English properly. It is, in fact, the people that stay behind in those areas who should have their ethics and ambition questioned.For example, why on earth would any young father and mother in Southall wish for his children to grow up in what is now officially the red-light (prostitution) and drugs capital of the whole of London ? What kind of parents would willingly, out of choice, bring their children up in such an environment ?

Now, things are a little different in Canada and that is more or less a refelction of the young history of Canada and the difference in the way the 2 nations have developed. The historical development of England is of course mirrored in the historical development of the English language, i.e without any proper structure, in a haphazard way, incorporating rules and way as it goes along. In this way, there is a bit of a free for all in English neighbourhoods where homeowners can do whatever they please, such as tarmac the lawns whenever they want, cut down the trees, spit in the streets, dump their unwanted washing machines and other goods in the street. Canada, on the other hand, as a much younger nation, has a culture of civic pride where, for example, you can't pour warm water on your windscreen outside your house on icy mornings....having a civic duty to shovel up snow on the pavement....maintaining the ambience of a neighbourhood such as maintaining grassy front lawns. Thus, Sikh neighbourhoods in Canada do not suffer the same degredation the UK Sikh neighbourhoods suffer once other more undesirable elements start to move in. There are however exceptions to that rule, for a variety of reasons. For example Rexdale in Toronto. Traditionally / historically, the epicentre of Sikhs in Toronto but as it has since then acquired a very Jamaican atmosphere with crime etc most of the Sikhs of Rexdale have moved away to the nicer suburbs of Brampton etc. And its not always bad things that are the catalyst. Lets take Vancouver for example. Traditionally / historically, the epicentre of the Sikh community in BC was thee 'little Punjab' area of Vancouver. A very nice suburban area. Still is. Since then however, since the rich Hong Kong Chinese started moving in, very few Sikhs remain in Vancouver. In fact the Sikh population of Vancouver is absolutely tiny. Very few remain. Most have cashed in on the high value of their homes in Vancouver and moved to neighbouring cities such as Surrey, Richmond etc.

It is human nature, to move on. To move somewhere where your children will have a better life. Throught the history of England there has only ever been one community that lacked this human ambition of progress and that community are the Bangladeshis of the East End. For the first time ever, the nation has a community that is actually willing to stay in a dump....willing to bring their kids up in a dump. That is not normal human behaviour. Normal human behaviour is to move on to better places. Those here advocating we Sikhs follow the example of the Bengalis need to sit down and re-evaluate this line of thinking.

South Vancouver was never a 80-90% Sikh neighborhood, there were always a ton of Asians around, Vancouver in general has always had a stronger Asian population. Vancouver didn't suffer from a mass migration per say, it just got full, people had to skip Vancouver and go to Surrey etc and develop there. South Vancouver is still a split between the Asians and Sikhs, with the rest being White people.

Also, we HAVE to shovel, with the amount of snow we get sometimes, its impossible not too shovel, its not out of civic duty. As for the trash or warm water, its very very common. Have a old couch? Throw it in the alley or on the sidewalk.

While in recent years there has been a huge increase in the black population in surrey, it will take them decades to replace 150,000 people. Sikh communities of Canada have larger numbers, more densely packed. Not too mention UK seems to have more racial problems, we get along with Somalians and others.

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dallysingh101    1,585

South Vancouver was never a 80-90% Sikh neighborhood, there were always a ton of Asians around, Vancouver in general has always had a stronger Asian population. Vancouver didn't suffer from a mass migration per say, it just got full, people had to skip Vancouver and go to Surrey etc and develop there. South Vancouver is still a split between the Asians and Sikhs, with the rest being White people.

Also, we HAVE to shovel, with the amount of snow we get sometimes, its impossible not too shovel, its not out of civic duty. As for the trash or warm water, its very very common. Have a old couch? Throw it in the alley or on the sidewalk.

While in recent years there has been a huge increase in the black population in surrey, it will take them decades to replace 150,000 people. Sikh communities of Canada have larger numbers, more densely packed. Not too mention UK seems to have more racial problems, we get along with Somalians and others.

Do you see the 'Sikh flight' thing of the UK in Canada?

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Do you see the 'Sikh flight' thing of the UK in Canada?

Not at all bro, the two biggest communities being Brampton and Surrey (100k +), are surrounded by cities with smaller populations of 10-20-30,000 Sikhs, there is just some shuffling like a family moves from Surrey to Delta, or Brampton to Etobicoke. No mass migration. Calgary has strong and still growing population of Sikhs in the North East, been there since the 90's.

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Ranjeet01    1,185

South Vancouver was never a 80-90% Sikh neighborhood, there were always a ton of Asians around, Vancouver in general has always had a stronger Asian population. Vancouver didn't suffer from a mass migration per say, it just got full, people had to skip Vancouver and go to Surrey etc and develop there. South Vancouver is still a split between the Asians and Sikhs, with the rest being White people.

Also, we HAVE to shovel, with the amount of snow we get sometimes, its impossible not too shovel, its not out of civic duty. As for the trash or warm water, its very very common. Have a old couch? Throw it in the alley or on the sidewalk.

While in recent years there has been a huge increase in the black population in surrey, it will take them decades to replace 150,000 people. Sikh communities of Canada have larger numbers, more densely packed. Not too mention UK seems to have more racial problems, we get along with Somalians and others.

The UK for the most part have good race relations (in my opinion).

The Sikhs in the Uk get on with everyone (as it is with our relatively open friendly nature). We have had problems with certain segments of the Pakistani population but then again who hasn't in the UK. When you bring your clannish behaviour combined with an expansionist supremacist ideology, it's going to cause problems. For a lot of Sikhs in the UK in many cases, living in an area with less muslims improves your quality of life.

With Somalis, no Sikhs per say has any direct issues with them but they are even more disliked by other black populations (Afro-Caribbeans and West African such as Nigerians).

They do not seem to be a progressive people, they are still stuck in their tribal ways. They do not share the same values as us such as a work ethic and to improve your lot. After 20+ years living in parts of West London they are still on welfare.

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JagsawSingh    887

The UK for the most part have good race relations (in my opinion).

The Sikhs in the Uk get on with everyone (as it is with our relatively open friendly nature). We have had problems with certain segments of the Pakistani population but then again who hasn't in the UK. When you bring your clannish behaviour combined with an expansionist supremacist ideology, it's going to cause problems. For a lot of Sikhs in the UK in many cases, living in an area with less muslims improves your quality of life.

With Somalis, no Sikhs per say has any direct issues with them but they are even more disliked by other black populations (Afro-Caribbeans and West African such as Nigerians).

They do not seem to be a progressive people, they are still stuck in their tribal ways. They do not share the same values as us such as a work ethic and to improve your lot. After 20+ years living in parts of West London they are still on welfare.

2 things to remember Ranjeet:

  1. Firstly, UK Sikhs need to understand that Canada has the biggest Somalian population in the western world so they know Somalians alot better than UK Sikhs do. When the Somali refugee crisis started many many years ago it was Canada that took in by far the largest and even today it is Canada that has the most.
  2. When you think of the great Sikh neighbourhoods of the Greater Toronto area, such as Brampton and Mississauga, you have to remember for example that Mississauga has more Pakistanis than Bradford. In fact for Muslims as a whole, Canada's census reveals that there are 3 times more Muslims in Canada than there are Sikhs. You also have to remember that Toronto is one of the big 4 Jamaican expatriate cities of the world (along with New York, London and Miami). In fact Toronto's Jamaican community is larger and more livelier than London's.

So, lets recap: They have the crime. They have the Muslims. They have drugs. They have the lowering of stanadrds in neighbourhoods. They have the same things as us.

But.....unlike us, they don't have a negative Sikh community permanently crying about it. Cryin about this. Complaining about that. They don't have a single element within the Sikh community so silly, so misinformed, so wrong, that they would actually support Donald Trump and his facist ideology. Thats the difference.

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Ranjeet01    1,185

2 things to remember Ranjeet:

  • Firstly, UK Sikhs need to understand that Canada has the biggest Somalian population in the western world so they know Somalians alot better than UK Sikhs do. When the Somali refugee crisis started many many years ago it was Canada that took in by far the largest and even today it is Canada that has the most.
  • When you think of the great Sikh neighbourhoods of the Greater Toronto area, such as Brampton and Mississauga, you have to remember for example that Mississauga has more Pakistanis than Bradford. In fact for Muslims as a whole, Canada's census reveals that there are 3 times more Muslims in Canada than there are Sikhs. You also have to remember that Toronto is one of the big 4 Jamaican expatriate cities of the world (along with New York, London and Miami). In fact Toronto's Jamaican community is larger and more livelier than London's.
So, lets recap: They have the crime. They have the Muslims. They have drugs. They have the lowering of stanadrds in neighbourhoods. They have the same things as us.

But.....unlike us, they don't have a negative Sikh community permanently crying about it. Cryin about this. Complaining about that. They don't have a single element within the Sikh community so silly, so misinformed, so wrong, that they would actually support Donald Trump and his facist ideology. Thats the difference.

I think most Western countries have a quite a lot of Somalis. I am sure the likes of Holland and Sweden probably have a good understanding of the Somalians population too. I am sure Sikhs in Southall and Hounslow would think they have a good understanding of Somalis, living amongst them for the past 20 years.

There are a quite a lot of Somalis in Minnesota too and they are not looked upon very kindly. They are quite problematic particularly with the African American community.

It would be interesting to see what Jamaicans in Toronto think of Somalis in Canada. I would guesstimate that their opinions would not be too different from their Afro-Caribbean brothers in London.

I personally have no issue with Somalis, but having observed them for 20 odd years, there does not seem to be much progress in terms of their community and most of them seem to stuck on welfare. This is just my observation.

I would agree that UK Sikhs can be a bunch of whining babies, but that is probably because we live in a country of complainers.

I get involved with a few Sikh initiatives in my local community and you hear a lot of complaints but very few of these complainers pull out their finger and do something about it.

Edited by Ranjeet01

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Hammertime007    462

multiculturalism and integration is broken in the UK. It's been replaced with segregation and hate (though segregation is better than war) It's not just muslim gettos, Wembley looks like a 3rd world slum getto from Mumbai or dehli, have you seen the state of the non sikh indian people there. The last 3 major riots in the UK were all race related, 2001 pakistani youth in Oldham, 2005 pakistanis v blacks birmingham, 2010 various blacks types and some muslims rioting and looting over the UK. Sikhs have every right to complian we are the best example of immigration and integration, if we wanted to live in the 3rd we would have stayed in india

Edited by Hammertime007

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Hammertime007    462

I have seen multiculturalism work, it was in 1980s and very early 90s. In those days the main immigrants were west Indians, Bangladeshis, Indians; both sikhs and hindus and a reasonable number of Pakistanis.for multiculturalism to work we have to go back to the racial demographics of the 80s and very early 90.

Edited by Hammertime007

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dallysingh101    1,585

We are closer as a community when it is necessary to do so.

I think familiarity breeds contempt in a lot of cases.

I just hope most of you leafy suburban dwellers haven't become as soft as shite if we ever do need to kick off.

BTW, if you are living in those kind of environments - I hope you're training and not slobbing out playing xbox and ish all day. lol And if you are ducking all community issues in your cosy havens, you'd better at least be getting top grades and becoming top doctors, scientists and ish.

It's really good this internet thing: Makes me realise that behind most of the dogmatic debating, and indignation about Khalistan, Indian politics and whatnot are some pampered, closeted leafy, suburban dwelling comfort zone cats; this is useful to know. I don't think you guys would ever do anything that takes you away from the lap of comfort you're in. All the noise you make is most likely to be your way of retaining some identity in the face of a bland white surrounding you find yourselves in. Useful to know what kind of people you are.

Edited by dallysingh101

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