Hammertime007

Donald Trumph Jindabad (Long Live)

125 posts in this topic

I have seen multiculturalism work, it was in 1980s and very early 90s. In those days the main immigrants were west Indians, Bangladeshis, Indians; both sikhs and hindus and a reasonable number of Pakistanis.for multiculturalism to work we have to go back to the racial demographics of the 80s and very early 90.

That's not going to happen with birthrates as they are and with the amount of Europeans coming here. Plus, we touched on it before, destabilising the mid-east has caused a refugee crisis, some of them are coming here too.

You need to stop with the idea of returning to some 'golden age', ain't gonna happen mate. Instead, you should be more focused making do with the situation as it is. That's really unrealistic imagining that we can 'freeze' a particular moment in history and replicate it.

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Not at all bro, the two biggest communities being Brampton and Surrey (100k +), are surrounded by cities with smaller populations of 10-20-30,000 Sikhs, there is just some shuffling like a family moves from Surrey to Delta, or Brampton to Etobicoke. No mass migration. Calgary has strong and still growing population of Sikhs in the North East, been there since the 90's.

How do apnay get on in general? Do they have a strong sense of community? Are they happy living together?

Edited by dallysingh101

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multiculturalism and integration is broken in the UK. It's been replaced with segregation and hate (though segregation is better than war) It's not just muslim gettos, Wembley looks like a 3rd world slum getto from Mumbai or dehli, have you seen the state of the non sikh indian people there. The last 3 major riots in the UK were all race related, 2001 pakistani youth in Oldham, 2005 pakistanis v blacks birmingham, 2010 various blacks types and some muslims rioting and looting over the UK. Sikhs have every right to complian we are the best example of immigration and integration, if we wanted to live in the 3rd we would have stayed in india

Don't think sitting there on the sidelines complaining about how 'it's all gone to the dogs' is any sort of plan or strategy for us. If you don't like urban living use your money to move to suburbia.

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multiculturalism and integration is broken in the UK. It's been replaced with segregation and hate (though segregation is better than war) It's not just muslim gettos, Wembley looks like a 3rd world slum getto from Mumbai or dehli, have you seen the state of the non sikh indian people there. The last 3 major riots in the UK were all race related, 2001 pakistani youth in Oldham, 2005 pakistanis v blacks birmingham, 2010 various blacks types and some muslims rioting and looting over the UK. Sikhs have every right to complian we are the best example of immigration and integration, if we wanted to live in the 3rd we would have stayed in india

"Black types"? Also, this was in 2011.

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2 things to remember Ranjeet:

  1. Firstly, UK Sikhs need to understand that Canada has the biggest Somalian population in the western world so they know Somalians alot better than UK Sikhs do. When the Somali refugee crisis started many many years ago it was Canada that took in by far the largest and even today it is Canada that has the most.
  2. When you think of the great Sikh neighbourhoods of the Greater Toronto area, such as Brampton and Mississauga, you have to remember for example that Mississauga has more Pakistanis than Bradford. In fact for Muslims as a whole, Canada's census reveals that there are 3 times more Muslims in Canada than there are Sikhs. You also have to remember that Toronto is one of the big 4 Jamaican expatriate cities of the world (along with New York, London and Miami). In fact Toronto's Jamaican community is larger and more livelier than London's.

So, lets recap: They have the crime. They have the Muslims. They have drugs. They have the lowering of stanadrds in neighbourhoods. They have the same things as us.

But.....unlike us, they don't have a negative Sikh community permanently crying about it. Cryin about this. Complaining about that. They don't have a single element within the Sikh community so silly, so misinformed, so wrong, that they would actually support Donald Trump and his facist ideology. Thats the difference.

1. Do have quite a bit, I don't how toronto Sikhs get along with them, but I doubt they have any conflict. In BC, the media is trying to play this race war, but its wrong, no race war.

2. Missisauga does not have more Pakistanis than Bradford, or more Muslims. Nor is the Muslim population 3x as much, it is about double. Sikhs dominate on the West, out East, muslims and hindus have strong populations too. In Toronto Sikhs have very strong populations in Brampton, Malton, and Etobicoke. Muslims and Hindus have Scarborough and many other areas.

Sorry to burst your bubble bro, but lol there is some support for Donald Trump out here, at least amongst the younger generation.

How do apnay get on in general? Do they have a strong sense of community? Are they happy living together?

Within ourselves? Love hate relationship, on personal levels, no community wide split. As a community however everyone lives well together, and everyone knows everyone.I don't know if I'd say strong sense of community, but its very, very tight knit. In the winter time the community dies down, too cold lol its literally dead, come summer time, entire community is outside, you see how lively it gets.

Did have the whole "moderate vs Fundi" thing in the 90's that caused a split and violence, but by 2015 all but 2 Gurdwaray are under Fundi control. Not including Nanaksar ones.

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1. Do have quite a bit, I don't how toronto Sikhs get along with them, but I doubt they have any conflict. In BC, the media is trying to play this race war, but its wrong, no race war.

2. Missisauga does not have more Pakistanis than Bradford, or more Muslims. Nor is the Muslim population 3x as much, it is about double. Sikhs dominate on the West, out East, muslims and hindus have strong populations too. In Toronto Sikhs have very strong populations in Brampton, Malton, and Etobicoke. Muslims and Hindus have Scarborough and many other areas.

Sorry to burst your bubble bro, but lol there is some support for Donald Trump out here, at least amongst the younger generation.

Within ourselves? Love hate relationship, on personal levels, no community wide split. As a community however everyone lives well together, and everyone knows everyone.I don't know if I'd say strong sense of community, but its very, very tight knit. In the winter time the community dies down, too cold lol its literally dead, come summer time, entire community is outside, you see how lively it gets.

Did have the whole "moderate vs Fundi" thing in the 90's that caused a split and violence, but by 2015 all but 2 Gurdwaray are under Fundi control. Not including Nanaksar ones.

Khoon

My observation in when going to places such as Missassauga is that it is in fact a city in itself with over half a million people and parts of it are very condo-fied (high rise apartments/flats) particularly since it would be closer to down town Toronto.

If there are any Sikhs living in Missassauga they would more likely live in the outskirts, suburban areas bordering towards Brampton/Peel/Vaughan. Sikhs don't do condos, they prefer proper houses with basements which they can rent out. The Pakistanis that move into these areas only are picking up Sikh hand me downs. It is a similar pattern you see in the UK.

I think the other factor people forget that the Muslim population is made up of dozens of countries whereas Sikhs come from one predominately area.

One of the advantages of Canada you have compared to the UK is that you have space

But I think that Canada does integration a lot better than a lot of countries. Went to Yorkdale mall (in Toronto area) and there were a lot of youngsters around. Black, white, Chinese and Indian. They were all mixing, not a hint of segregation.

Very refreshing to see.

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2. Missisauga does not have more Pakistanis than Bradford, or more Muslims. Nor is the Muslim population 3x as much, it is about double. Sikhs dominate on the West, out East, muslims and hindus have strong populations too. In Toronto Sikhs have very strong populations in Brampton, Malton, and Etobicoke. Muslims and Hindus have Scarborough and many other areas.

Sorry to burst your bubble bro, but lol there is some support for Donald Trump out here, at least amongst the younger generation.

Did have the whole "moderate vs Fundi" thing in the 90's that caused a split and violence, but by 2015 all but 2 Gurdwaray are under Fundi control. Not including Nanaksar ones.

4 things KhoonKaBadlaKhoon: Firstly, why in gods name are you stating the bleeding obvious? In a discussion about Miississauga, what on earth possessed you into writing things that everybody already knows about the "west coast, Brampton" etc ? I mean what exactly is the point in wasting your own and everybody else's time in this way ? :blink2:

Secondly, when the official Canadian census reveals that there are between 2 and 3 times more Muslims than Sikhs in Canada and I, of course, in order to make a point, round it UP, why would you even think it worthwhile for you to counter it by rounding it DOWN ? I mean what exactly is the point in wasting your own and everybody else's time in this way ?

But, for arguments sake, lets just take a brief moment to analyse the 2001 census figures. Since then, although there has also been a massive influx of Sikhs, lets not forget that Muslims have been officialy labelled the fasting growing religion in Canada during the same period, so have increased in numbers even more. In 2001, Sikhs made up 1.9% of the Greater Toronto area whereas Muslims made up 5.5%. Whichever way you look at it, the '3 x' analogy is a fair and balanced position to take.

Thirdly, we were talking about the Sikh community as a whole and not Canadians at large when we talked about 'support for a facist articulating facist ideology' (Donald Trump). So....who exactly is this significant number of facist policy supporting "young" Sikhs in Canada that you speak of ?

And fourthly, may I remind you that you are on a Sikh forum not an Indian one. For we Sikhs, the people you describe as "moderates" are in fact extremists. They are extremists because they believe in an ideology that is extreme from Sikhi as can get and is closer to hinduvta. The people you describe as "fundis" are more or less nearly all the people you are conversing with right here, i.e just Sikhs. The enemies of Sikhs like to tarnish the name of Sikhs by labelling them "fundis". We don't need uneducated youngster Sikhs from Canada doing the same. Sort yourself out bruvs.

If there are any Sikhs living in Missassauga they would more likely live in the outskirts, suburban areas bordering towards Brampton/Peel/Vaughan. Sikhs don't do condos, they prefer proper houses with basements which they can rent out. The Pakistanis that move into these areas only are picking up Sikh hand me downs. It is a similar pattern you see in the UK.

No, you're quite wrong on most of your points there Ranjeet. Firstly, the Pakistanis of the greater Toronto area are mostly Punjabi rather than Mirpuri and very much like the Hindu Punjabi community of the UK they are nearly all from the middle class educated groups from the cities of Pakistan Punjab. Thus, they tend to be more educated than the average Sikh immigrant to Canada. Whilst the few that move to the west coast do undoubtedly start off in the basements of Sikh households, the same is not neccesssarily true in Ontario. They already have established suburban neighbourhoods in places such as Markham as well as districts in the city of Mississauga such as Meadowvale, Lisgar, Erindale, Cooksville and Applewood etc.

There are a quite a lot of Somalis in Minnesota too and they are not looked upon very kindly. They are quite problematic particularly with the African American community.

It would be interesting to see what Jamaicans in Toronto think of Somalis in Canada. I would guesstimate that their opinions would not be too different from their Afro-Caribbean brothers in London.

Exactly Ranjeet. Canada and America actually have a bigger problem with their Somalians than we do in the UK. I'm glad you mentioned the Minnesota problem but its a similar story in Canada. But, as I said before, we in the UK seem to have a whole load of moaning minnies within our Sikh community who just keep moaning and whining all the time as if its the end of days.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/why-so-many-somali-canadians-who-go-west-end-up-dead/article4365992/?page=all

In Toronto itself there is a big problem between Jamaicans and Somalians. Those 2 groups really don't like each other and alot of it has to do with street drug gangs.

I would agree that UK Sikhs can be a bunch of whining babies, but that is probably because we live in a country of complainers

.

Thats the understatement of the year Ranjeet. I cringe whenever I see and hear my fellow Sikhs from the UK constantly complain about this and that. Firstly, I have increasingly over the years come to the conclusion that the UK is the most ill-informed uneducated nation on earth, People here, especially Sikhs, seem to know so very little about realities in the outside world. Thats why, whenever anyone makes comments along the lines of 'ignorant americans' I always step in and remind the UK ones that it is in fact they who the most ignorant of the world. Constantly crying and complaining like babies. Constantly imagining that they've got it so hard....that they've got the worst situation in the world....and that everywhere else the grass is green and the roses smell nice. Unbelievable stupidity.Unbelievable ignorance. I mean imagine if the following was in UK papers last week instead of Canadian ones. The UK Sikhs would have gone into a frenzy of dispair...as to how the community has now truly gone to the dogs. This is one of the saddest, most dispairing news stories I've read in a long time but the Canadians just brush it off as nothing. They don't even give it a second thought let alone complain or whine about it and society. UK Sikhs have got to start seeing the glass as half full and realise they and their society have it so much better than others:

http://www.southasianfocus.ca/news-story/6154306-heroin-addicted-father-shot-mother-while-their-young-children-watched-court-told/

As if life and society was so much better in the 'good old days' when they didn't have to see a muslim face. Oh how they remenisce about the days when skinheads used to spit at their mum on the street. The days when the police would call them a "paki" and hit them. Ah the good old days. The days when crime and violence was actually worse. The days when the street used to be full of hundreds of drunks laying on the pavement. The days when cigarettes were openly sold to 12 year olds. The days when the peadophile network was open and involved high-ranking politicians and police. Oh......all that wonderfull stuff is now gone and now I have to look at a muslim's face. Booo-hoooo. Its so sad. If only another Hitler would come along and openly advocate facist policies against these Muslims, perhaps by rounding them up and making them wear identity tags. Life would be wonderfull again. :stupidme:

Edited by JagsawSingh

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Khoon

My observation in when going to places such as Missassauga is that it is in fact a city in itself with over half a million people and parts of it are very condo-fied (high rise apartments/flats) particularly since it would be closer to down town Toronto.

If there are any Sikhs living in Missassauga they would more likely live in the outskirts, suburban areas bordering towards Brampton/Peel/Vaughan. Sikhs don't do condos, they prefer proper houses with basements which they can rent out. The Pakistanis that move into these areas only are picking up Sikh hand me downs. It is a similar pattern you see in the UK.

I think the other factor people forget that the Muslim population is made up of dozens of countries whereas Sikhs come from one predominately area.

One of the advantages of Canada you have compared to the UK is that you have space

But I think that Canada does integration a lot better than a lot of countries. Went to Yorkdale mall (in Toronto area) and there were a lot of youngsters around. Black, white, Chinese and Indian. They were all mixing, not a hint of segregation.

Very refreshing to see.

I have never been to Mississauga bro, I had no clue it was filled with high rise residences. But Sikhs live in Malton area of Sauga' which I think is mostly single family homes, in line with your theory.

Growing up in BC, the Muslims I knew all were arab, fijians, pakistanis etc not 1 reigion dominated their numbers. But I think Toronto is more diverse and integrated, you probably won't see the mall scenario as much here in BC.

4 things KhoonKaBadlaKhoon: Firstly, why in gods name are you stating the bleeding obvious? In a discussion about Miississauga, what on earth possessed you into writing things that everybody already knows about the "west coast, Brampton" etc ? I mean what exactly is the point in wasting your own and everybody else's time in this way ? :blink2:

Secondly, when the official Canadian census reveals that there are between 2 and 3 times more Muslims than Sikhs in Canada and I, of course, in order to make a point, round it UP, why would you even think it worthwhile for you to counter it by rounding it DOWN ? I mean what exactly is the point in wasting your own and everybody else's time in this way ?

But, for arguments sake, lets just take a brief moment to analyse the 2001 census figures. Since then, although there has also been a massive influx of Sikhs, lets not forget that Muslims have been officialy labelled the fasting growing religion in Canada during the same period, so have increased in numbers even more. In 2001, Sikhs made up 1.9% of the Greater Toronto area whereas Muslims made up 5.5%. Whichever way you look at it, the '3 x' analogy is a fair and balanced position to take.

Thirdly, we were talking about the Sikh community as a whole and not Canadians at large when we talked about 'support for a facist articulating facist ideology' (Donald Trump). So....who exactly is this significant number of facist policy supporting "young" Sikhs in Canada that you speak of ?

And fourthly, may I remind you that you are on a Sikh forum not an Indian one. For we Sikhs, the people you describe as "moderates" are in fact extremists. They are extremists because they believe in an ideology that is extreme from Sikhi as can get and is closer to hinduvta. The people you describe as "fundis" are more or less nearly all the people you are conversing with right here, i.e just Sikhs. The enemies of Sikhs like to tarnish the name of Sikhs by labelling them "fundis". We don't need uneducated youngster Sikhs from Canada doing the same. Sort yourself out bruvs.

I'm not entire sure if everyone knows where Canadian Sikhs live, apart from the obvious major cities. I don't consider it a waste of time.

Canadian census does not reveal it to be 3x larger as YOU stated, unless you round it up by a full 4-500,000 (which would be ridiculous to do). You said Canada has 3x more muslims, not just the Toronto area! I have already said the East is more diverse with strong hindu and muslim populations.

I never said its "significant" or not, please don't put words in my mouth, just my observations there are in fact young Sikhs in Canada that support Trump.

Not even going to start lol.

Edited by KhoonKaBadlaKhoon

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Agree with the opinion that most UK Sikhs are negative. People who have a relatively drama-free life walk around with scowls on their face as if they're one Prozac away from ending it. I know for a fact these people honestly are no more or less troubled than any other person on the street. Every life has its ups and downs, and things occur behind closed doors, but for God's sake, cheer up. People have no idea how good they have it, they really don't. It's like the concept of Chardi Kala is alien to them. Probably haven't heard of it tbh.

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Agree with the opinion that most UK Sikhs are negative. People who have a relatively drama-free life walk around with scowls on their face as if they're one Prozac away from ending it. I know for a fact these people honestly are no more or less troubled than any other person on the street. Every life has its ups and downs, and things occur behind closed doors, but for God's sake, cheer up. People have no idea how good they have it, they really don't. It's like the concept of Chardi Kala is alien to them. Probably haven't heard of it tbh.

Its the weather. Its scientifically proven that rainy places have more depression... Being a californian i can only sympathize

But wait isnt canada a colder/ rainier place than the UK?....?

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Its the weather. Its scientifically proven that rainy places have more depression... Being a californian i can only sympathize

But wait isnt canada a colder/ rainier place than the UK?....?

Colder yes. Rainier? No

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Agree with the opinion that most UK Sikhs are negative. People who have a relatively drama-free life walk around with scowls on their face as if they're one Prozac away from ending it. I know for a fact these people honestly are no more or less troubled than any other person on the street. Every life has its ups and downs, and things occur behind closed doors, but for God's sake, cheer up. People have no idea how good they have it, they really don't. It's like the concept of Chardi Kala is alien to them. Probably haven't heard of it tbh.

problem is they live surrounded by the well-known 'whinging poms' so like Indian sikhs have got flavoured by hindu majority; similarly Uk sikhs who are not strong with sikhi will be become 1st class whiners . I grew up away from any pockets of desis and I thank my lucky stars ...the gorey and Kaley were mostly racists so didn't pay much attention to them , grew up in an estate so could see living breathing examples of why we should listen to Guru ji so never strayed . That is not to see we were insular I had all colours and faiths as friends going through life and it was very good . Waheguru ji always had my back in my hour of need so why should I be down , sad , miserable ? I know That Waheguru is always there for me.

And it was always my cousins coming down from midlands and Glasgow or up from Gravesend or Woolwich who would say you live in a rough neighbourhood ...and complain . Look whereever Guru ji puts me I will be happy and do my best to live SIkhi in every way and action. Honestly I agree most Sikhs have had a 'chardi kala ' bypass ...I blame western learning ...they think sikhi cannot be right cos it's 'not scientific' hahahaha science sez everything is made of photons so does Gurbani ...get a life

P.S. : damp weather is a major buzzkill but it is not the reason people whine here , there is a brasilian saying my hubby says often 'complaining on a full belly' we call it Akiratghan "Bina Santokh nahin koi raja" as Guru ji puts it

Edited by jkvlondon
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there is a brasilian saying my hubby says often 'complaining on a full belly' we call it Akiratghan "Bina Santokh nahin koi raja" as Guru ji puts it

That's it. There's certain people who, no matter how much they have, or wherever they happen to be located, they'll never ever be pleased, because inside themselves they aren't at peace.

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That's it. There's certain people who, no matter how much they have, or wherever they happen to be located, they'll never ever be pleased, because inside themselves they aren't at peace.

I think there another thing where people who have all their basic needs met by their parents (food, shelter etc.), now need to find some tribal sense of belonging to give them some sense or purpose in life.

That's what I'm beginning to think all the Internet kharkuing about India and Khalistan is about for all those people 'furiously indignant' from the comfort of some leafy suburbia that they will never leave. lol

Edited by dallysingh101
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I think there another thing where people who have all their basic needs met by their parents (food, shelter etc.), now need to find some tribal sense of belonging to give them some sense or purpose in life.

That's what I'm beginning to think all the Internet kharkuing about India and Khalistan is about for all those people 'furiously indignant' from the comfort of some leafy suburbia that they will never leave. lol

Yeah, there's definitely that, and there's "The devil makes work for idle hands." When you want for nothing (or very little) and your life is one long stretch of inane yet idyllic bourgeois existence, you've gotta spice things up a little. What better way to pass the time and assauge one's religious and social conscience by demanding others shed blood and undergo hardships so you can claim you fought for independence for a whole race of people... behind a computer or smartphone screen.

Edited by MisterrSingh
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Colder yes. Rainier? No

Pretty sure it gets just as rainy in bc like it does in the UK , in Calgary the winter starts off mild but can get to minus 30 during the summer we can get up to plus 30.

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Grey cloudy weather with no sunshine for days can seriously impact apneh in the UK.

I suspect the lack of Vitamin D makes them more miserable.

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Pretty sure it gets just as rainy in bc like it does in the UK , in Calgary the winter starts off mild but can get to minus 30 during the summer we can get up to plus 30.

I live in Ontario and in my opinion we get the best summers and not the worst winters.

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Grey cloudy weather with no sunshine for days can seriously impact apneh in the UK.

I suspect the lack of Vitamin D makes them more miserable.

I thought this too, but the Canadian experience seems to point otherwise?

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I thought this too, but the Canadian experience seems to point otherwise?

I think they get more hours of sunshine.

Canadians are a friendlier bunch than the Brits on average. You can strike up a conversation with a complete stranger (even on public transport ), if you did that on the London tube people will look at you funny.

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I think they get more hours of sunshine.

Canadians are a friendlier bunch than the Brits on average. You can strike up a conversation with a complete stranger (even on public transport ), if you did that on the London tube people will look at you funny.

Even more of a reason to have Sikh areas in the UK where we don't imbibe the majority culture and becomes miserable, constantly whinging twats.

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Even more of a reason to have Sikh areas in the UK where we don't imbibe the majority culture and becomes miserable, constantly whinging twats.

no deal i don't want my kids to become brats, nindaks and chugli masters ...i want them to experience siKhi minus the heavy desification , no balle balle shava shava for us

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no deal i don't want my kids to become brats, nindaks and chugli masters ...i want them to experience siKhi minus the heavy desification , no balle balle shava shava for us

I'll answer that question later in response to Ranjeet's question elsewhere. But what I'm imagining is the very antithesis of this. It's good that you are conscious of these things btw.

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