Do Shaheeds Get Mukhti (Liberation) ?

[abelsingh]

Both Gurbani verses state that Bhagat Kabir ji used a Mala.

No point arguing, if you want use it if not then don't.

Where does it state he used a mala throughout his whole jeevani? It's to say he knew it was wrong to use on. Think twice next time. Stop encouraging manmat.

People have given proof of our Sri Guru Sahib's malas, and you think that is manmatt?? Are you okay? Whatever the Sri Guru Sahibs do is Gurmatt.

What proof? A picture? How is that actual proof? Anyone could have put a mala and labelled it as Guru Ji's. You cannot even explain why a Guru Ji would need a mala. Therefore it is you doing manmat when Guru Granth Sahib Ji states nothing to use a mala.

The gurus did not need to use the malas but they carried them to show the sikh sangat.

To show the Sikh Sangat what exactly? Was their message not divine enough for your brain to comprehend? Stop encouraging manmat by spreading false lies about the Gurus using manmat. It's stupid, makes you look stupid to say a Guru Ji needed to use a mala. Where in Guru Granth Sahib does it mention of any of the Guru Ji's using mala?

[abelsingh]

ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ ॥

Rāg soraṯẖ.

Raag Sorat'h:

ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥

Bẖūkẖe bẖagaṯ na kījai.

I am so hungry, I cannot perform devotional worship service.

ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥

Yėh mālā apnī lījai.

Here, Lord, take back Your mala.

Source - http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=656&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&fb=0&k=0

ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ॥

Bilāval.

Bilaaval:

ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਕੋਰੀ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਆਨੈ ਲੀਪਤ ਜੀਉ ਗਇਓ ॥

Niṯ uṯẖ korī gāgar ānai līpaṯ jī▫o ga▫i▫o.

Every day, he rises early, and brings a fresh clay pot; he passes his life embellishing and glazing it.

ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਿਓ ॥੧॥

Ŧānā bānā kacẖẖū na sūjẖai har har ras lapti▫o. ||1||

He does not think at all of worldly weaving; he is absorbed in the subtle essence of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||

ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਕਉਨੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਿਓ ॥

Hamāre kul ka▫une rām kahi▫o.

Who in our family has ever chanted the Name of the Lord?

ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Jab kī mālā la▫ī nipūṯe ṯab ṯe sukẖ na bẖa▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Ever since this worthless son of mine began chanting with his mala, we have had no peace at all! ||1||Pause||

Source - http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=856

You chant on your mala, and beg for money. No one has ever been saved in this way, friend. ||3|| (888, Gur Arjan Dev)

Apply ceremonial marks to their foreheads, hold malas in their hands, and wear religious robes. people think that the Lord is a toy. ||1|| (1158, Kabir)

The mala is around your neck, and the sacred tilak mark is on your forehead. You wear two loin cloths, and keep your head covered.

If you know God and the nature of karma, you know that all these rituals and beliefs are useless. (1353, 1)

Kabeer, what good is it to become a devotee of Vishnu, and wear four malas? On the outside, he may look like pure gold, but on the inside, he is stuffed with dust. ||145|| (1372, Kabir)

Proof right there that mala is discouraged in SGGS. If you're gonna do something then post it properly, not just one sided. And also I have respect to not post a pangti in Gurmukhi on a site where foul language is used by vile people like that 'lol^^' loser who's up in cuckoo land.

[abelsingh]

Tarsem Ji who said I look at the Mahapurshs to use a mala and not at the Gurus teachings? That's your own assumption. I only wrote the facts, I never said one should use one did I? I don't think I've wrote anything wrong. By the way I don't use a mala. And where did I write one should compare themselves to a Sant? You should re-read exactly what I wrote as I think you are misinterpreting it and taking it in a different direction. Also where have I encouraged it to be part of Gurmat?

Did you even read Bhagat Namdev jis Bani I wrote and understand it?

Well they're clearly not "facts", I'll tell you that right now. After reading your post it seems quite clear that you indeed are promoting manmat by encouraging the use of a mala indirectly. You clearly refer to a mahapurash doing this and that, rather than the Guru. What is the need to even look at a mahapurash? In your view are they higher than a Guru? That we should not search Gurbani for an answer as to whether a mala should be used or not and instead just look at the sant for the answer? By simply saying that it is comparing one self to the mahapurash. Read my latest posts here as I too have posted the bani which discourages the mala, and I have respect not to post in Gurmukhi. Nobody interpreted what you said but told the truth so stop encouraging manmat.

[abelsingh]

Why don't you look to the Gurus? Why does everyone look at so and so baba, this baba and that baba who use mala? When did the Guru ever use a mala? When did the Guru ever permit anybody to use a mala? Sant Mahapurakhs who use mala may use one for their own reason, not for concentration. That's ridiculous because Guru Nanak says "Dhun Meh Dhyan Dhyan Meh Janiya Gurmukh Akth Kahani". The whole point is to put your focus into the DHUN, the sound, nothing else. How is this being done if you are using your mala? Your attention/focus would obviously be going into your hand/finger movement and not the sound. Thats why I'm saying we shouldn't even look at Sant and compare ourselves to them, because its a fact that they are not using to 'concentrate' as they are already above this. I have no problem with people using mala, whether they think it helps them or not but I dont like when they say its ok to use one because it encourages others to do so, when Gurbani doesn't say its ok. I can understand an old person using one, or anyone for that matter but to say that it's Gurmat and its ok for one to use to concentrate on is just not right.

Because it's clearly manmat! How can you not understand this? If you are doing something in your own way, something which Gurbani does not state then it is of course manmat. How is a mala going to help you focus???? Guru Nanak says: Dhun Meh Dhyan, Dhyan Meh Janiya, Akath Katha Kahani. The way is to listen to the dhun, the sound and focus on it. Now tell me if you are using a mala then where is your attention going to?? The sound or your hand/finger movement moving the mala??? Your attention is obviously going to the hand/finger movement of the mala so how can you follow Guru Nanak's pangti that way? If you wanna do your manmat by all means do it, but stop encouraging others to do it as well. Plus nowhere in Gurbani does it say to calculate your jaaps either. If you can provide a single pangti as to where a mala is allowed then by all means to it. Bhagat Kabir Ji also says that the mala is his tongue, in a pangti. So where's proof the bhagats had malas? Even if they or mahapurakhs did use them, that was probably for their own reasons. We shouldn't look at them and compare ourselves to them because we are still on Khalsa Panth stage, they are on a whole different stage. There's another pangti which says that those mahapurakhs are on such a stage where their actions have no good or bad in them.

Exactly! Thats what these manmat doers don't seem to realise. They cannot provide any Gurbani pangti in the true sense, rather will provide bani's which have nothing to do with covering the actual topic. Good reply. They obviously think they are using dhian with their mala's lol by focusing on the hand and not on the sound. If they do ardaas to maharaj he may bless them with correct understanding.

Kabeer, what good is it to become a devotee of Vishnu, and wear four malas? On the outside, he may look like pure gold, but on the inside, he is stuffed with dust. ||145|| (1372, Kabir)

[abelsingh]

What would be a Sant/Mahapurshs own reasons be for using a mala? On one hand you have no problem with people using a mala, but then you say it's not ok to use one. Sounds like you are pro and con with Malas or are you confused as to if one can be used or not?

My grandmothers cousin used to hold a mala most times I saw her. She never listened to what anybody tried to tell, was always doing simran with her mala. I remember her supporting me in some sad times, although she was a bit stubborn but her love and sharda in Waheguru was lovely to see. Miss my grandma and her

Oh I forgot, she lived up to over 100 years old, she was lucky God graced her so many years to do simran.

Hey everybody! Lets all get our malas out so Guru Ji can bless us with a 100 years to keep calculating in numbers how much simran we can do. That's the most ridiculous thing, actually encouraging others to partake manmat. Who knows what a sant/mahapurash's reason would be for using a mala? I certainly know it isn't for 'concentration' as if they really a mahapurash then they would be way above that, on such a stage that they can automatically focus and concentrate simply by reciting the Gurmantar. What would be the need of a mala? I've read your comments and it seems clear enough you are promoting the use of a mala indirectly. Either state Gurbani pangti's that encourage the use of a mala or everything you say is considered a joke and will not be taken serious. It seems like you live on this forum and debate with others, where does Gurbani promote that? Exactly, nowhere. Debating gets you nowhere. At all. Nope.

[abelsingh]

It's even clearly explained in SGGS how mala is manmat, but of course people are going to leave that behind..

Here, Lord, take back Your mala. (656, Kabir)

Ever since this worthless son of mine began chanting with his mala, we have had no peace at all! ||1||Pause|| (856, Kabir) (Now with this pangti it might suggest that Kabir used to use a mala, it doesn't suggest he used it throughout his whole life to concentrate on, that's why in the first pangti Bhagat Kabir even says to the Lord, take back the mala. Always funny to notice the manmat doers twisting this pangti to suit their own cynical views.).

You chant on your mala, and beg for money. No one has ever been saved in this way, friend. ||3|| (888, Gur Arjan Dev)

Apply ceremonial marks to their foreheads, hold malas in their hands, and wear religious robes. people think that the Lord is a toy. ||1|| (1158, Kabir)

O Brahmin, you worship and believe in your stone-god, and wear your ceremonial rosary beads. Chant the Name of the Lord. Build your boat, and pray, "O Merciful Lord, please be merciful to me."||1||

The mala is around your neck, and the sacred tilak mark is on your forehead. You wear two loin cloths, and keep your head covered.

If you know God and the nature of karma, you know that all these rituals and beliefs are useless. (1353, 1)

Kabeer, what good is it to become a devotee of Vishnu, and wear four malas? On the outside, he may look like pure gold, but on the inside, he is stuffed with dust. ||145|| (1372, Kabir)

And here's what Dasam Granth says about mala too:

CHAUPAI One of them wears a Tasbi (the rosary of Muslims) and the other one wears Mala (the rosary of a Hindu); One of them recites the Quran and the other one reads Puranas; The adherents of both the religions are foolishly dying in opposing each other, And none of them is dyed in the love of the Lord.20.

[abelsingh]

Personal inabilities is no benchmark. No where in Gurbani does it say malaa is wrong. Gurbani says how others have used it in the past were wrong making the mallaa worthless to them. Gurbani says as a girl walks and laughs with her friends and yet keeps her attention on the pitcher of water from spilling is how we Sikhs are to keep doing simran. These new aged Sikhs have no clue what Gurbani says. They make up their own theories on what Gurbani is saying. Calling them fanatics is actually giving them credit. They are beyond fanatics and i don't even know how to describe them. If counting is wrong in Gurmat. Then not counting should also apply to giving charity. Yet these same new breed will find the smallest coin in there pocket to give to charity. Why don't you close your eyes and place the note into the charity box? What are you worried about? God will take care of you.

Only Guru Sahib has the approval hammer to say who is a shaheed and what is the standard to earn this title. Again no veechar on Gurbani is done and all these wild and completely absurd teachings are forced on Sikhs by these new breed of Sikhs. They define Naam simran as only repeating his name by mouth. They dont even know a glimpse of what Naam is. Yet they use this word in every post they post here. Talk about being confused. If it was left up to them, everyone would be burning in hell because they get excited to see people fail and be in pain. I am completely disgusted by these people. Anyone who sacrifices the mind to Akal Purkh is a Shaheed. No one knows what was on the shaheed mind when he gave his life for Gurmat. Only Akal Purkh knows.

If you want to subject shaheeds to be bound in a human form. then give me your address because you must be Akal Purkh and only Akal Purkh will know the state of mind of the shaheed. I want to bow down to you and give you my head. Let me know if you are ready to receive it.

Next these new breed sikhs will say a prayer mat is wrong. Its a piece of cloth which prevents dust from getting on to the clothes of the reader and gutka sahib. And the malaa is a helping device to repeat his naam for some. And if you still dont understand. Show me where in Gurbani it says to wear clothing? Are you not comfortable of how God made you???? Gurbani says you came naked and you go naked. Bring your preacher and lets see how fast he starts undressing. And i will present Gurbani where it says there is no point of wearing clothing. Once presented you malaa haters better start undressing right away. I am not joking here. You want to stop others from meditating, be ready to face the consequences.

And dont forget to rub your fat belly with lotion while you are undressing, preparing to face the entire sangat with your manmat and cynical views, while all other Gurmukhs reach there success. Next you will be encouraging the use of rakhriya and interfaith marriage too. Word of fact: you are not God and never will be. You are a mere kid who everyone thinks of nothing as a troll. That's why you stay hidden and quiet wherever Gurbani is presented, you cynical little boy.

[abelsingh]

There you have it, NOBODY can provide pangti's as much as I have which clearly discourage a mala, as opposed to using one. Try and actually post one Gurbani pangti, not suggesting a bhagat used a mala previously or not, but one where it says a GURU JI used a mala for spirituality or a pangti which encourages the use of one. EXACTLY. SABH SIKHAN KO HUKAM HAI, GURU MANEO GRANTH. AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL

[abelsingh]

The same can be said for anything really, it all has to do with sharda and faith Singh ji. The mala is the symbol of Gurmat and dharm, so it would be foolish to think that our Sri Guru jis would not have possessed that. Just as there are gutka sahibs for the novice, while most people have their nitnem memorized.

I suggest you immediately do ardaas to the Guru for you mind to come to realisation for you are promoting moorakh and manmukh views here. How can you even use a painting of Guru Nanak in your picture. WHY ON EARTH WOULD SOMEONE NEED FAITH TO BELIEVE THAT A GURU NEEDED A MALA? WHERE IS THE LOGICAL SENSE IN THAT? I'm convinced the low remaining brain cells in you must somehow be the reason to make you post such things. Even if a Guru Ji did possess it the point is that they never ever USED IT FOR THEIR BHAKTI. Therefore it is extremely wrong to compare ourself to the Guru, by saying that it would be ok to use a mala if the Guru Ji used on. These things take no faith, only manmat/manmukh mentality to want to believe a Guru Ji used a mala or even had one. It is nowhere near the symbol for any Gurmat or Dharm as it is not stated anywhere in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

And another moorakh view.... are you seriously going to convince people by comparing a Gutka Sahib to a mala? where does it say Gutka Sahibs are for novices? They are there to READ FROM, to LEARN FROM, PRACTICE FROM. I know many people who know bani memorized yet still read from Gutka Sahib to make sure every bit of their santhiya is correct. I would strongly urge you to not post on this topic or this forum ever again (I certainly wont be if you read my next post after this) so that no one reading your comments will lose any brain cells at the things coming from you.

[abelsingh]

The manmat doers and moorakhs have smelt the smoke from the barrel. Kaboom.