Do Shaheeds Get Mukhti (Liberation) ?

[harsharan000]

We're all free, the ones who realise it/ Practice Truth are Jeevan Mukht for as long as they practice Truth

Brother Sat,

sorry to disagree with you on this point.

None of us are free. We have a limited free will, in the sense the karmas we do, we have the choice of doing good or bad.

We were not free, in having the choice of where or when to be born, of the family, country, or religion to be born, etc. Everything is predtermined by our karmas.

So, how can we call ourselves free?

Then, about the Truthfulness....Gurmukhs or Guru Sahibans are free since birth, they are above karmas, even then they respect and abide by the laws of Nature.

And these very Guru Sahibans or Gurmukhs, do not have to practice any truth, as they themselves are the very embodiment of that Suprme Truth.

It is all others, we who have to practice Truth, because we are still in the realms of mind and Maya, but they Gurmukhs, have their "chit", their dhyan, permanently focused and merged in the Shabad Dhun, they are in constant communion with Shabad.

Thus, only them are totally free, and as such, they can take back with them to Sach Khand, whomsoever they want, under the Hukum of Wahiguru.

Outwardly they may look like us, but the main difference is, while we are not free and we have to strive in being truthful, they are manifestations of that Primal Supreme Truth, Satnam, Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

Sat Sree Akal..

[Guest Jacfsing2]

We're all free, the ones who realise it/ Practice Truth are Jeevan Mukht for as long as they practice Truth

I'm with Harsharan, if we were free we would all choose to be pure, (our souls represent us), but because of all that we've done we can't be free.

[harsharan000]

Shaheeds are mukht...meaning, they are out of the cycle of births and deaths.

They do the seva and sift salah of Akal Purakh and will be encountered in the realms towards sach khand.

They have the choice to merge completely with akal purakh and become one with nirankar, or they may continue with their service. ...

they are the accepted ones described in japji as the "maniyeh" in the suniyeh and maniyeh verses.

Brother Lucky, Sat Sree Akal.

Welcome after so long time, we miss you here, please come more oftenly, and allow us to have our share of your wisdom.

The Bani says: Ekas bin sabh dhandh hae, sabh moh maaye.

And this Ekas, is none other than Wahiguru Akal Purukh Himself. And so what is Wahiguru? Is He something personal, with form,color or size?

No.

The Bani says, He is Akal, He is Nirankar. He is described as Alakh or Agam also. He is also described as Bani or Amrit Bani, and such, this Bani is the Anhad Naad, the unstruck divine melody ringing within us at all times, irrespective of our caste, color, religion or nationality.

And while this divine melody reverberates constantly nonstop, then also this manifestation of Naam or Shabad, projects Akahand Jot, from it.

So in conclusion, He can be heard through His Shabad Dhun, and we can have His Darshan through His Jot being pargat within us.

And throughout Gurbani, the Bhagat Janas, our Guru Sahibans, have gracefully revealed us these truths, which otherwise we by ourselves could never come to know.

And all these saintly Gurmukhs, stress only the bhakti of Naam, because through it, we can manifest that Shabad Guru within us, and by listening to it, we start becoming pure paviter, as we literally burn our store karmas, that is why First Patshahee says: suniye, dukh paap ka naas.

Means, by listening to the Shabad Dhun within, which is as same as saying, drinking the Amrit within, all our karmas get dissolved, which are the cause of our sorrows and pains, and of us being prisoners in this mayavee creation

And once we become totally inmaculate, gradually with His apaar grace, we merge in Him, and become one with Him. This is when the Bani says, the jot (light,our souls), merges in the Akhand Jot.

So when Guru Jee says, suniye in the Bani, it means, we have to do the jugtee of Naam Simran, in order to be able to listen that Shabad Dhun within.

This is when Third Patshahee says: Naam jiske man vaseeya, vaajeh Shabad ganere.

And when it says "maniye" , it refers to those who have understood and accepted this Truth, as Naam, or Shabad Dhun, as per means of becoming one with Him, through His Simran.

Sat Sree Akal.

[Guest Sat]

Lol if Mool Mantar says that He has no image, no form, no colour and we are told in Gurbani that we are like drops of water in His ocean, then how are we not beyond the of Maya and free.

Truth Is what it Is. You and I cannot change that or the fact that we are all Truth- we just don't realise it.

What do you think the point of Guru Nanak teaching us Bani is? Its so we realise what He has- so we get out of the illusion that we live in and accept that we are the lowest of the low, we are Nothing, we have no image or form, we are True Love like Him. Yes we pay off our karams, but we are not here just for karma, we're here to realise Who We Really Are.

We don't forcefully Make ourselves free, we simply and peacefully accept that we are Truth, hence we are already free and we pay off our deserved karams with grace and humility and continue to learn the different facets of Truth that He wills us to learn.

[Guest Sat]

Lol if Mool Mantar says that He has no image, no form, no colour and we are told in Gurbani that we are like drops of water in His ocean, then how are we not beyond the of Maya and free.

Truth Is what it Is. You and I cannot change that or the fact that we are all Truth- we just don't realise it.

What do you think the point of Guru Nanak teaching us Bani is? Its so we realise what He has- so we get out of the illusion that we live in and accept that we are the lowest of the low, we are Nothing, we have no image or form, we are True Love like Him. Yes we pay off our karams, but we are not here just for karma, we're here to realise Who We Really Are.

We don't forcefully Make ourselves free, we simply and peacefully accept that we are Truth, hence we are already free and we pay off our deserved karams with grace and humility and continue to learn the different facets of Truth that He wills us to learn.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Lol if Mool Mantar says that He has no image, no form, no colour and we are told in Gurbani that we are like drops of water in His ocean, then how are we not beyond the of Maya and free.

Truth Is what it Is. You and I cannot change that or the fact that we are all Truth- we just don't realise it.

What do you think the point of Guru Nanak teaching us Bani is? Its so we realise what He has- so we get out of the illusion that we live in and accept that we are the lowest of the low, we are Nothing, we have no image or form, we are True Love like Him. Yes we pay off our karams, but we are not here just for karma, we're here to realise Who We Really Are.

We don't forcefully Make ourselves free, we simply and peacefully accept that we are Truth, hence we are already free and we pay off our deserved karams with grace and humility and continue to learn the different facets of Truth that He wills us to learn.

"ਜੋਤਿ ਰੂਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹਾਯਉ ॥ जोति रूपि हरि आपि गुरू नानकु कहायउ ॥ Joṯ rūp har āp gurū Nānak kahā▫ya▫o. The Embodiment of Light, the Lord Himself is called Guru Nanak." Ang 1408

[luckysingh99]

You guys have to understand that there are 2 types of mukhti referred to in Gurbani. However, you may well find other texts with 3,4, or 5 types,...but in gurbani there is two....and that is all we should be concerned with.

1st) First is Mukti from Lakh chaurasi cycle. This means the coming and going, the avaa -->jaana. This cycle of life and death can be escaped with Naam. Once you get naam, once you merge with the naam, then you can be mukht at this level. My understanding is that this does not mean you are merged with Akaal purakh, this means merging with the naam.

Japji sahib describes the "maniye" that are at the door of waheguru's nijh ghar. This is where the shaheeds are, the devi devte's,, the angels, heavenly beings..etc...

All of these higher realms are experienced on the way to the door of Akaal purakh.

2nd Mukhti is the ultimate merging of one with Akaal purakh, the joti jyot, when you are completely dissolved back into the Mool and your Identity is completely gone. Remember that whilst in heavens like the shaheeds, devi devte's etc... you will still have some identity. You can remain there for eternity doing sift salah or you may want to merge completely into waheguru. In this case you Have to take human birth because this is the only joon out of the lakh chaurasi where you can do abyaas and bandagi

[simran345]

You guys have to understand that there are 2 types of mukhti referred to in Gurbani. However, you may well find other texts with 3,4, or 5 types,...but in gurbani there is two....and that is all we should be concerned with.

1st) First is Mukti from Lakh chaurasi cycle. This means the coming and going, the avaa -->jaana. This cycle of life and death can be escaped with Naam. Once you get naam, once you merge with the naam, then you can be mukht at this level. My understanding is that this does not mean you are merged with Akaal purakh, this means merging with the naam.

Japji sahib describes the "maniye" that are at the door of waheguru's nijh ghar. This is where the shaheeds are, the devi devte's,, the angels, heavenly beings..etc...

All of these higher realms are experienced on the way to the door of Akaal purakh.

2nd Mukhti is the ultimate merging of one with Akaal purakh, the joti jyot, when you are completely dissolved back into the Mool and your Identity is completely gone. Remember that whilst in heavens like the shaheeds, devi devte's etc... you will still have some identity. You can remain there for eternity doing sift salah or you may want to merge completely into waheguru. In this case you Have to take human birth because this is the only joon out of the lakh chaurasi where you can do abyaas and bandagi

Thank you Lucky Paji for explaining about Mukhti.

[Guest Satwinder Singh]

My understanding is that this does not mean you are merged with Akaal purakh, this means merging with the naam.

I am sorry to disagree with you brother.

Not because of anything else, but because, Naam and Wahiguru Akal Purukh, is the same thing, there is absolutely no difference, these are 2 different words, but refer to the same power, same Jot, same level of consciousness, same Sach, same Truth.

It is this very Naam, to which First Patshahee refers to, in the begining of His Japji Sahib, when He says : Ikoankar SATNAM.

This means, there is only One Lord( Ikonkar), which is the everlasting Truth as Naam or call it Shabad.

Wahiguru Akal Purukh, is a manifestation, a Dhara, of that Naam, which otherwise is beyond any words .... or even imagination.

Wahiguru jee.

[simran345]

I am sorry to disagree with you brother.

Not because of anything else, but because, Naam and Wahiguru Akal Purukh, is the same thing, there is absolutely no difference, these are 2 different words, but refer to the same power, same Jot, same level of consciousness, same Sach, same Truth.

It is this very Naam, to which First Patshahee refers to, in the begining of His Japji Sahib, when He says : Ikoankar SATNAM.

This means, there is only One Lord( Ikonkar), which is the everlasting Truth as Naam or call it Shabad.

Wahiguru Akal Purukh, is a manifestation, a Dhara, of that Naam, which otherwise is beyond any words .... or even imagination.

Wahiguru jee.

Thank you ji for explaining it, Paji Satwinder ji ?

ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਆਦਿ ਮੈ ਜਾਨਾ ॥

ओअंकार आदि मै जाना ॥

O▫ankār āḏ mai jānā.

I know only the One Lord, who is the source of everything.

ਲਿਖਿ ਅਰੁ ਮੇਟੈ ਤਾਹਿ ਨ ਮਾਨਾ ॥

लिखि अरु मेटै ताहि न माना ॥

Likẖ ar metai ṯāhi na mānā.

I believe not in him, whom the Lord writes (creates) and erases (destroys).

ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਲਖੈ ਜਉ ਕੋਈ ॥

ओअंकार लखै जउ कोई ॥

O▫ankār lakẖai ja▫o ko▫ī. If someone sees the one Lord,

ਸੋਈ ਲਖਿ ਮੇਟਣਾ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੬॥

सोई लखि मेटणा न होई ॥६॥

So▫ī lakẖ metṇā na ho▫ī. ||6||

he perishes not by beholding Him.

SGGS ji Ang 340

?? Dhan Bhagat Kabir ji