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Sikh Man Builds Mosque For Muslims In Punjab


shastarSingh
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That wasn't the reason that you are saying, if that guy wasn't even shudra he still would have been killed

Seriously starting to wonder if you can read or not. Vaishsta explicitly said the cause of the death was a Shudra doing Penance and killing the Shudra would resurrect the dead boy. He never ONCE said it was due to ill intentions, nor did Rama. That is something you're adding in.

I am talking about what family our Sri Guru jis were born in, before our Sri Guru jis were even born.

I'm aware of that. Linege means nothing to Guru Sahib, They could have been born into any family they wanted. You're the one now stressing that family line is important. When Gurbani contradicts that.

Talk about it in a brahmgyani perspective because it happened to our brahmgyani Sri Guru jis, not to random person(s)

Why should I talk about it in a Brahmgyani Perspective lol? To present a Brahmgyani Perspective I need to be a Brahmgyani. Maybe you think you're one but I'm 100% sure im not. I made the point that the manner in which they left this world was brutal to us. But their departure ingrained an important lesson in us. Which you are once again completely ignoring and trying to deviate the topic.

Why can't you accept that Shambuka's fate was God's will because Shambuka did wrong instead of blaming Ram Raja?

The same reason you refuse to accept that Brahmin was in the wrong for not accepting his son's death and going off to search for someone to blame.

http://hindupad.com/story-of-shambuka-vadha-by-rama-rama-killing-shambuka/

Just read it all. This is just one source, I looked and found other sources which state the same thing.

FACT- Brahmin's son dies and he blames Rama

FACT - Vaishta then states the cause is a Shudra doing Penance

FACT - Rama goes off and then kills him.

FACT- NONE of them ever state the Shudra had bad intentions, that is something our resident Brahmgyani Preet seems to add in :)

I've literally had to spell it all out for you but you keep adding WHAT YOU WANT to everything because YOU BELIEVE that you're completely right. The very text you're trying to defend has stated he was killed due to being a Shudra and doing Penance. Never once did it say that Penance was good or bad. That is something YOU are pulling out of thin air to try and justify it.

Vishnu himself is far from Perfect, You should stop dragging other examples into this one as their not adding to you're point. If anything it's destroying the argument Vaishsta gave.

You know what. I've presented my arguments, It's literally like talking to a brick wall, then again this is the same person that called Austerities=black magic.I'm done with it all.

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Who cares if Guru Vashishta said that, it is obvious that he slayed Shambuka because of his bad motives in the penance.

Based on what? none of them EVER said it was due to bad intentions. None of them, that is something you want to make up to try and justify it all.

Yes, they can be born into any family but they chose Ram Raja's lineage, what a big coincidence that Sri Krishna is also part of that lineage right? If you are not perfected why do you bother talking bad about Ram Raja when you and me are nothing compared to him?

Seriously read Gurbani for once in your life. It is full of points about the in-perfection and the power-hungry nature of the gods.If you actually read Gurbani you'd know that Guru Sahib was born in there due to the penance of his parents NOT due to Rama or Krishna

That link you gave said that the Brahmin's son came back to life after, is that a clue enough that it was because of Shambuka? LOL it is so obvious that it was bad intentions, like seriously that guy Shambuka wanted to take over a DevLok when it was already run properly through our Sri Vaheguru's kirpa. Seriously

The link also doesn't say it was due to bad intentions. It explicitly states its due to a Shudra doing Penance, stop trying to justify it and just face facts. Stop adding your own cr@p into stories to cover up what took place. None of them Rama or Vaishsta said it was due to bad intentions, not one of them. THey said it was because A SHUDRA was doing Penance. End of story. That LINK even says Vaishta said the reason was becuase as a Shudra he was doing Penance. Stop trying to avoid that one fact by adding stuff you don't know into what he said.

If some guy started doing penance to replace your Sri Gutka Sahib with his comic book don't you think that is negative? Both pointless motives that do not serve any good.

Then let him do it, I'm not stopping him.

I am not the only one who narrates the story as such, only people with negative perspectives on anything that makes other sants look inferior would.

It's in the Ramayan LOL. Several sources say the exact same thing, nothing about intent is mentioned in ANY OF THEM. That is something Apologists like you who try to defend the Caste System add in to try and subsidize what took place.

You keep forgetting that caste wasn't the problem, it was his bad intentions in penance.

Something you keep adding in. Find it in the text, find me where Vaishsta says its due to Bad intentions, not "its because its obvious" because I can jump to any conclusion I want based on that principle alone. Stop saying that, unless you're a Brahmgyani or Vaishta himself find it in the very scripture he wrote. The exact story I sent mentions that it was due to Shudra doing Penance, stop glossing over that fact.

ਤੇ ਭੁਜ ਬਲ ਬਵਰੇ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਏ ॥ ਪੂਜਤ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਰਹਿ ਗਏ ॥੬॥

ते भुज बल बवरे ह्वै गए ॥ पूजत परम पुरख रहि गए ॥६॥

Who became mad with power and abandoned the worship of Supreme Purusha.6.

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥

ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥ तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥

I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥

ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥ आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥

They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥

महादेव अचु्त कहायो ॥ बिसन आप ही को ठहिरायो ॥

Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥

ब्रहमा आप पारब्रहम बखाना ॥ प्रभ को प्रभू न किनहूं जाना ॥८॥

Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8.

Just some Gurbani on how flawed the gods actually are. Not that you will bother reading it as you consider all this Nindya. LOL. I could sit here and post COUNTLESS quotations about how flawed the gods are. ALL from Gurbani yet you'll say its all wrong because it's insulting the very people you worship.

Feel free to live in your own little state of ignorance and intolerance.

Ok ok, done now :D

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It is obvious to what is good and bad Kira ji, nobody needs to be told that trying to take posession of something already reserved is bad.

Based on what? you're own twisted logic. You brand it bad yet Gurbani hasn't spoken out against it, sure it's discouraged but it also mentions that if you desire something ask god.

There are many interpretations to one story Kira ji, like your twisted one and one like the true one.

Many interpretations but if its there in black and white you would have to be a naive fool to simply ignore it. Vaishsta even goes on and explains that Shudra aren't allowed to do Penance in the three yugs. It was pointed out there, you simply ignore it because it destroys your stupid arguement once again. Just like you ignore Gurbani when it goes against what you believe.

I can give you Gurbani lines where it praises Krishna as God, and where it says Vishnu's path is supreme if you'd like :) But what is the point when you only focus on a few lines rather than all.

This is so hilarious. You're accusing me of being narrow minded when you quote the same quote again and again. Read Chaupai Sahib. Guru Gobind Singh Ji refers to people who follow gods as nothing more than Fools. What are you going to now say? that Guru Gobind singh Ji was wrong?

ਕਲਿਆਨੁ ਮਹਲਾ

कलिआनु महला ५ ॥
Kali▫ān mėhlā 5.
Kalyan 5th Guru.
ਕਲਿਆਨ ਪੰਜਵੀਂ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ।
कउनु बिधि ता की कहा करउ ॥
Ka▫un biḏẖ ṯā kī kahā kara▫o.
By What way can I meet with Him and what should I do to achieve this aim?
ਕਿਸ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਦੁਆਰਾ, ਮੈਂ ਉਸ ਨਾਲ ਮਿਲ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਇਸ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤੀ ਲਈ ਮੈਂ ਕੀ ਕਰਾਂ?
धरत धिआनु गिआनु ससत्रगिआ अजर पदु कैसे जरउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ḏẖaraṯ ḏẖi▫ān gi▫ān sasṯargi▫ā ajar paḏ kaise jara▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Some knowers of Shashtras fix their attention on the Divine knowledge, how should I bear the unbearable state?. Pause.
ਕਈ ਸ਼ਾਸਤਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਜਾਣਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਆਪਣੀ ਬਿਰਤੀ ਨੂੰ ਬ੍ਰਹਿਮ-ਬੀਚਾਰ ਅੰਦਰ ਜੋੜਦੇ ਹਨ। ਮੈਂ ਅਸਹਿ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਨੂੰ ਕਿਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸਹਾਰਾ? ਠਹਿਰਾਉ।
बिसन महेस सिध मुनि इंद्रा कै दरि सरनि परउ ॥१॥
Bisan mahes siḏẖ mun inḏrā kai ḏar saran para▫o. ||1||
Of Vishnu, Shva, the adepts, the men of silence and Indra, of whose door should I seek the refuge?
ਵਿਸ਼ਨ੍ਹੂ ਸਿਵਜੀ, ਪੂਰਨ ਪੁਰਸ਼, ਖਾਮੋਸ਼ ਬੰਦੇ ਅਤੇ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ, ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਕਿਸ ਦੇ ਬੂਹੇ ਦੀ ਪਨਾਹ ਲਵਾਂ?
काहू पहि राजु काहू पहि सुरगा कोटि मधे मुकति कहउ ॥
Kāhū pėh rāj kāhū pėh surgā kot maḏẖe mukaṯ kaha▫o.
With some are dominions, with others paradise, but, some rare one out of millions, is said to be blessed with emancipation.
ਕਿਸੇ ਕੋਲ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਹੈ, ਕਿਸੇ ਕੋਲ ਬਹਿਸ਼ਤ ਪ੍ਰੰਤੂ ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਦੇ ਪੱਲੇ ਹੀ ਕਲਿਆਨ ਦੀ ਬਖਸ਼ਸ਼ ਦੱਸੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ।
कहु नानक नाम रसु पाईऐ साधू चरन गहउ ॥२॥३॥६॥
Kaho Nānak nām ras pā▫ī▫ai sāḏẖū cẖaran gaha▫o. ||2||3||6||
Says Nanak, grasping the feet of the saint, I have obtained the Name Nectar.
ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ, ਸੰਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੈਰ ਪਕੜਨ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਨਾਮ-ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ।

again here, it makes it clear how pointless and futile it is.
कोटि बिसन कीने अवतार ॥
Kot bisan kīne avṯār.
He created millions of incarnations of Vishnu.
ਉਸ ਨੇ ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾਂ ਦੀ ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂੰ ਦੇ ਅਉਤਾਰ ਰਚੇ।

कोटि ब्रहमंड जा के ध्रमसाल ॥
Kot barahmand jā ke ḏẖaramsāl.
He who has millions of solar systems as places to practise virtue.
ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾਂ ਹੀ ਸੂਰਜ-ਮੰਡਲ ਨੇਕੀ ਕਮਾਉਣ ਦੇ ਟਿਕਾਉਣੇ ਵਜੋਂ ਹਨ।

कोटि महेस उपाइ समाए ॥
Kot mahes upā▫e samā▫e.
He created and destroyed millions of Shivas.
ਉਸ ਨੇ ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾਂ ਹੀ ਸ਼ਿਵਜੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਲਾਸ ਕੀਤੇ।

So are you now going to claim that worshipping a subservant of god who isn't even one with god such as Satguru Nanak Maharaj is the same? LOL.

सिव सिव करते जो नरु धिआवै ॥
Siv siv karṯe jo nar ḏẖi▫āvai.
The man, who uttering the Name of Shiva and worships him;
ਜਿਹੜਾ ਇਨਸਾਨ ਸ਼ਿਵਜੀ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਉਚਾਰਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ;
बरद चढे डउरू ढमकावै ॥२॥
Baraḏ cẖadẖe da▫urū dẖamkāvai. ||2||
he rides on ox beats the tambourine.
ਉਹ ਬਲ੍ਹਦਾ ਤੇ ਚੜ੍ਹਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਡੱਫ ਵਜਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ।
महा माई की पूजा करै ॥
Mahā mā▫ī kī pūjā karai.
He who adores Mahanmai,
ਜੋ ਮਹਾਂਮਾਈ ਦੀ ਉਪਾਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ,
नर सै नारि होइ अउतरै ॥३॥
Nar sai nār ho▫e a▫uṯarai. ||3||
is born as a woman instead of man.
ਉਹ ਆਦਮੀ ਤੋਂ ਤੀਵੀਂ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਜੰਮਦਾ ਹੈ।
तू कहीअत ही आदि भवानी ॥
Ŧū kahī▫aṯ hī āḏ bẖavānī.
Thou art called the primal goddess,
ਤੂੰ ਮੁੱਢਲੀ ਦੇਵੀ ਆਖੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ,
मुकति की बरीआ कहा छपानी ॥४॥
Mukaṯ kī barī▫ā kahā cẖẖapānī. ||4||
at the time of granting salvation, where did you hide thyself.
ਮੁਕਤੀ ਦੇਣ ਦੇ ਵੇਲੇ ਤੂੰ ਕਿਥੇ ਆਪਦੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਲੁਕਾ ਲੈਨੀ ਹੈਂ?

ਕਹਾ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਆਨਿ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਦਸਕੁ ਅਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਘਾਏ ॥

Kahaa Bhayo Jo Aani Jagata Mai Dasaku Asura Hari Ghaaee ॥
कहा भयो जो आनि जगत मै दसकु असुर हरि घाए ॥
What then, if on coming into the world, one killed about ten demons;
1884110 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੪੬ ਪੰ. ੧੦
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ਅਧਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਪੰਚ ਦਿਖਾਇ ਸਭਨ ਕਹ ਆਪਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੧॥
Adhika Parapaancha Dikhaaei Sabhana Kaha Aapahi Barahamu Kahaaee ॥1॥
अधिक प्रपंच दिखाइ सभन कह आपहि ब्रहमु कहाए ॥१॥
And displayed several phenomena to all and caused others to call Him Brahm (God).1.
1884211 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੪੬ ਪੰ. ੧੧
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ਭੰਜਨ ਗੜ੍ਹਨ ਸਮਰਥ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਜਾਤ ਗਿਨਾਯੋ ॥
Bhaanjana Garharahana Samarath Sadaa Parabha So Kima Jaata Ginaayo ॥
भंजन गड़्हन समरथ सदा प्रभ सो किम जात गिनायो ॥
How can He be called God, the Destroyer, the Creator, the Almighty and Eternal,
1884312 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੪੬ ਪੰ. ੧੨
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ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਅਸਿ ਕੋ ਘਾਇ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੨॥
Taa Te Sarab Kaal Ke Asi Ko Ghaaei Bachaaei Na Aayo ॥2॥
ता ते सरब काल के असि को घाइ बचाइ न आयो ॥२॥
Who could not save himself from the wound-causing sword of mighty Death.2.
1884413 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੪੬ ਪੰ. ੧੩
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ਕੈਸੇ ਤੋਹਿ ਤਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਜੜ ਆਪ ਡੁਬਯੋ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰ ॥
Kaise Tohi Taari Hai Suni Jarha Aapa Dubayo Bhava Saagra ॥
कैसे तोहि तारि है सुनि जड़ आप डुबयो भव सागर ॥
O fool ! listen, how can he cause you to cause the dreadful ocean of Sansara (world), when he himself is drowned in great ocean?
1884514 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੪੬ ਪੰ. ੧੪

Again alluding to the nature of gods.

ਕਹੂੰ ਲੈ ਠੋਕ ਬਧੇ ਉਰ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੌ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਕਹਯੋ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਸੀਤ ਕੈ ਬੀਚ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

Kahooan Lai Tthoka Badhe Aura Tthaakura Kaahooan Mahesha Kou Eesa Bakhaanayo ॥ Kaahooan Kahayo Hari Maandara Mai Hari Kaahooan Maseeta Kai Beecha Paramanayo ॥
कहूं लै ठोक बधे उर ठाकुर काहूं महेश कौ एस बखानयो ॥ काहूं कहयो हरि मंदर मै हरि काहूं मसीत कै बीच प्रमानयो ॥
Someone has tied the stone-idol around his neck and someone has accepted Shiva as the Lord; someone considers the Lord within the temple or the mosque;
1891413 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੫੧ ਪੰ. ੧੩
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ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨੇ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੨॥
Kaahooan Ne Raam Kahayo Karishanaa Kahu Kaahooan Manai Avataarna Maanayo ॥ Phokatta Dharam Bisaar Sabhai Karataar Hee Kau Karataa Jeea Jaanayo ॥12॥
काहूं ने राम कहयो क्रिशना कहु काहूं मनै अवतारन मानयो ॥ फोकट धरम बिसार सभै करतार ही कउ करता जीअ जानयो ॥१२॥
Someone calls him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only the One Creator.12.
1891514 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੫੧ ਪੰ. ੧੪

here Guru Gobind Singh Ji calls it useless again. So what was that again about Worshiping Vishnu being supreme?

ਜੌ ਕਹੌ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸ਼ਲ ਕੁੱਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

जौ कहौ राम अजोनि अजै अति काहे कौ कौशल कु्ख जयो जू ॥ काल हूं काल कहै जिहि कौ किहि कारण काल ते दीन भयो जू ॥
If we consider Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take brith from the womb of Kaushalya ? He, who is said to be the KAL (destroyer) of KAL (death), then why did none become subjugated himself before KAL?
ਸੱਤ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਿਬੈਰ ਕਹਾਇ ਸੁ ਕਯੋਂ ਪਥ ਕੌ ਰਥ ਹਾਂਕ ਧਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕੋਊ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਲੇਨ ਲਯੋ ਜੂ ॥੧੩॥
स्त सरूप बिबैर कहाइ सु कयों पथ कौ रथ हांक धयो जू ॥ ताही को मानि प्रभू करि कै जिह को कोऊ भेदु न लेन लयो जू ॥१३॥
If he is called the Truth-incarnate, beyond enmity and opposition, then why did he become the charioteer of Arjuna ? O mind ! you only consider him the Lord God, whose Mysetry could not be known to anyone.13.
ਕਯੋਂ ਕਹੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬੱਧਕ ਬਾਣ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥
कयों कहु क्रिशन क्रिपानिध है किह काज ते ब्धक बाण लगायो ॥ अउर कुलीन उधारत जो किह ते अपनो कुल नासु करायो ॥
Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shot his arrow at him ? He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan;
ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥
आदि अजोनि कहाइ कहो किम देवकि के जठरंतर आयो ॥ तात न मात कहै जिह को तिह कयों बसुदेवहि बापु कहायो ॥१४॥
He is said to be unborn and beginningless, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki ? He , who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father?14.
ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥
काहे को एश महेशहि भाखत काहि दिजेश को एस बखानयो ॥ है न रघ्वेश जद्वेश रमापति तै जिन कौ बिस्वनाथ पछानयो ॥
Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord ? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you;
ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੈ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧ ਨੈਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥
एक को छाडि अनेक भजै सुकदेव परासर बयास झुठानयो ॥ फोकट धरम सजे सभ ही हम एक ही कौ बिध नैक प्रमानयो ॥१५॥
Relinquishing the One Lord, you remember many gods and goddesses; in this way you prove Shukdev, Prashar etc. as liars; all the so-called religions are hollow; I only accept the One Lord as the Providence.15.
ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸ਼ਨੋ ਬਿਸ਼ਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥
कोऊ दिजेश को मानत है अरु कोऊ महेश को एश बतै है ॥ कोऊ कहै बिशनो बिशनाइक जाहि भजे अघ ओघ कटै है ॥
Someone tells Brahma as the Lord-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva; someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only on remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed;
ਬਾਰ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੈ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਥੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥
बार हज़ार बिचार अरे जड़ अंत समै सभ ही तजि जै है ॥ ताही को धयान प्रमानि हीए जोऊ थे अब है अरु आगै ऊ ह्वै है ॥१६॥
O fool ! think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death, therefore, you should only meditate on Him, who is there in the present and who will also be there in future.16.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually went through and destroyed all the arguments people like you present to support worship of Devi-Devta. Just read that quote, Not that I have any hopes you'll bother .
So please tell me again how I'm not being thorough. You drag quotes out of Gurbani which have been noted to have a deeper meaning and then try to present it as Guru Sahib saying "yup Worshipping Devi-Devta is ok" . So remind me again how it is "supreme" The quote you seem to send to everyone is taken out of context so many times by you it's almost humourous now. I could easily take a quote out of Gurbani and point out how being Muslim is also fine. But obviously Gurbani points out the flaws in there later on.
You don't even bother pondering you're nitnem it seems, yet you're more than happy to desecrate Gurbani by warping it to seem like Sikhism is pro the very thing it is against.
Wow just wow. Deceiving the Cyber Sangat I see.
Countless shudra clan people have become saints before this yug, like Narada and Valmiki who also RESPECT and believe in Vishnu, the same Vishnu who took a janam as Ram Raja for the benefit of people. If Ram Raja was against shudras then how did such Narada and Valmiki and countless others follow his path if they were shudras? Why didn't Vishnu get mad at them? Because Vishnu does NOT have bias or hate for shudras
Yet according to Vaishsta that is why the Brahmin's son died. Yet that was the exact reason he gave to Rama before sending him off. The same thing you seem to overlook countless times. Ironically enough so many so called outcastes still follow HInduism and practice the Caste System. So does that suddenly mean that is right? Gurbani explicitly states following the path of any god is fruitless. Fact
Vaishsta said "Shudra not allowed to do Penance in 3 yugs save Kalyug and that is why the son died" He didn't say "due to the bad intentions of someone doing Penance the son has died" . Fact again which you repeatedly overlook. Those were his words.
Bad intentions are what YOU want it to be, because YOU want to believe Vishnu is perfect. Let me add there that the quote I sent before was a Eulogy of Akaal Purkh himself. Akaal Purkh himself said the Devi-Devta were drunk with power.
You're purposely now calling AKAAL PURKH a liar.
I really don't know what else to add rofl. You'll ignore all the Gurbani i present, sweep it under a rug and then completely disrespect it by holding onto your mundane thoughts.
I politely request the Sangat that they should simply ignore you. It's pretty apparent you want to submerge Sikhism into a faction of Hinduism and want to tamper with it till it's warped into something else. Thanks but People like RSS are already doing that.
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Please Preet ji

explain just how Narad and those other shudras became saints if they cannot do bhagti in the three previous yugs ? either the premise of shudras doing bhagti in only kalyug is wrong thus a lie or Guru Vashishta is not really aware of the true nature of Akal Purakh and his infinite daya so he is not as high avasta as you would wish to believe

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I did not want this topic to go THIS off topic, first this topic went off topic from the real topic, then off topic away from Shambuka. All I am saying is to let go of your mind, and let Paramatma go kirpa. I can post more lines if you'd like. But if you are actually interested, kindly message me instead of making this go more off topic (I am to blame as well for this to go off topic, so my apologizes to the admin ji).

Bhul Chuk Maaf Kijye Sri Gurudev, Sri 11 Gurudev, Sri Vaheguru ji!!

Well it's gone off topic ages ago, why discuss it in pm Preet ji, then I and others will not be able to read it. Bring it to the table, in front of everybody to read.
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This hatred against muslims is going overboard. Today my Muslim friend had to skip college because there is going to be a protest against muslims an the provost of the college advised muslims not to come and told professors to excuse muslim students.

Ur hatred +proactive n others has twisted ppl n created ppl like genie who think its ok to forcibly convert ppl n totally ok to go on a conquering frenzy in the name of religion. If we do this +genie wats so different against us n islam. That we would be more tolerant towards minorties after we forcibly converted them?

Of course that doesnt mean islam or muslims arent a threat. But key is balance.Bandha singh bahadur did kill muslims but only those muslims living in castles that were part of the evil government n had a hand in killing sikhs. In fact banda singh bahadur also killed hindus such as sucha nand. There were never force conversions. Anybody who believed in guru tegh bahadur would never consent to that. Also sikhs were fiercly proud n loyal they would never accept that anyone who was forcibly converted could ever be a Sikh nor would they allow anyone so cowardly into their ranks. Yes during raja ranjit singhs time and 1947 there was a frenzy of conquest. But who ever holds up sikhs of that time as role models? During 1947 innocents were butchured for revenge n land and raja ranjit singhs time we conquered kabul kandhar but of no use since we allowed fake converted sikhs like dogras into our ranks. So conversions whetner forcible or political were of no use instead were harmful. And conquering all the way to kabul kandhar not much more useful, when we couldnt even keep punjab.

Balance. In india helping muslims is ok. They r not a threat. In uk, muslims r a threat but only to weak sikhs. Girls who dont know anything about sikhi. Dont dilute sikhi or its message just because of these weak sikhs. One of u was right. In the past and even now muslims couldnt convert/ subjugate sikhs. They tried then n they try now. If some r successful now that doesnt mean sikhs message of humanity is outdated or wrong. It just means some sikhs are sikhs in name only. We r supposed to be able to be free n openminded n kind while amongst oppression. And also be free n openminded n kind without being taken advantage of like the west.so balance. When muslims go from being weak to being oppresers we can deal with it then. But that doesnt mean we kick them when they r weak. Whole world is against muslims now. So we stand by them

When muslims r against whole world we will be against them. Our priniples should stay constant not our enemies. So dont be like they were our enemies before n so still are. But do be aware, guruji said not to trust them.

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This is not my logic, I am not the first person in the world to narrate the story as the truth. Well we all know that Shudras did penance in all yugs (and have been succesful), so you saying that Guru Vashishta said that has to be wrong of you to say that. How am I ignoring that you said Shudras can't do penance in the 3 previous yugs?? When Narada and Valmiki have done real bhagti, and they have been succesful in it too AS being born in the Shudra clan, that just comes to show that discrimination was false back then if it happened, which it may have but the truth is people were allowed to do penance back then. I recite nitnem daily Kira ji, those lines are true just as the lines I know are true as well. The point being said, that all forms here will go back to the TRUE form. They are not exactly false, they are just temporary forms which mind you are still alive right now, and when the main form Paramatma decides to merge EVERYTHING into Paramatma once again then don't go telling me that they were not expansions of God just as we are in some sense. They do not get deleted, they simply merge back, as everything will one day from this sansar. I did not say it was the same, focussing back on Shambuka, it is believed that he was slayed because of his bad intentions to take over what was not his. That being said, if you believe in penance which takes posession of something one does not own and will not benifit one spiritually to gain mukhti, then that is on you. As for those lines you showed me, they are true. Here are some lines I would like to show you, and you can't just cross them off because all Gurbani is equal, so these lines are just as right as those ones. Stop throwing gross lines into Guru Vashishta's respect, it is really obvious that it was due to bad intentions. You are throwing words into my mouth that I have never said, just comes to show that you don't know it. Mind you, it is said that Bhagat Prahlad was also from the 'daitya' clan. Daitya clan is allso known as asuras.

ਬੈਸਨੋਸੋਜਿਸੁਊਪਰਿਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ॥
बैसनोसोजिसुऊपरिसुप्रसंन ॥
Baisno so jis ūpar suparsan.
The true Vaishnaav, the devotee of Vishnu, is the one with whom God is thoroughly pleased.
ਬਿਸਨਕੀਮਾਇਆਤੇਹੋਇਭਿੰਨ ॥
बिसनकीमाइआतेहोइभिंन ॥
Bisan kī mā▫i▫ā ṯe ho▫e bẖinn.
He dwells apart from Maya.
ਕਰਮਕਰਤਹੋਵੈਨਿਹਕਰਮ ॥
करमकरतहोवैनिहकरम ॥
Karam karaṯ hovai nihkaram.
Performing good deeds, he does not seek rewards.
ਤਿਸੁਬੈਸਨੋਕਾਨਿਰਮਲਧਰਮ ॥
तिसुबैसनोकानिरमलधरम ॥
Ŧis baisno kā nirmal ḏẖaram.
Spotlessly pure is the religion of such a Vaishnaav;
ਕਾਹੂਫਲਕੀਇਛਾਨਹੀਬਾਛੈ ॥
काहूफलकीइछानहीबाछै ॥
Kāhū fal kī icẖẖā nahī bācẖẖai.
he has no desire for the fruits of his labors.
ਕੇਵਲਭਗਤਿਕੀਰਤਨਸੰਗਿਰਾਚੈ ॥
केवलभगतिकीरतनसंगिराचै ॥
Keval bẖagaṯ kīrṯan sang rācẖai.
He is absorbed in devotional worship and the singing of Kirtan, the songs of the Lord's Glory.
ਮਨਤਨਅੰਤਰਿਸਿਮਰਨਗੋਪਾਲ ॥
मनतनअंतरिसिमरनगोपाल ॥
Man ṯan anṯar simran gopāl.
Within his mind and body, he meditates in remembrance on the Lord of the Universe.
ਸਭਊਪਰਿਹੋਵਤਕਿਰਪਾਲ ॥
सभऊपरिहोवतकिरपाल ॥
Sabẖ ūpar hovaṯ kirpāl.
He is kind to all creatures.
ਆਪਿਦ੍ਰਿੜੈਅਵਰਹਨਾਮੁਜਪਾਵੈ ॥
आपिद्रिड़ैअवरहनामुजपावै ॥
Āp ḏariṛai avrah nām japāvai.
He holds fast to the Naam, and inspires others to chant it.
ਨਾਨਕਓਹੁਬੈਸਨੋਪਰਮਗਤਿਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
नानकओहुबैसनोपरमगतिपावै ॥२॥
Nānak oh baisno param gaṯ pāvai. ||2||
O Nanak, such a Vaishnaav obtains the supreme status. ||2||
more lines:
ਸਤਿਜੁਗਿਸਤਿਗੁਰਵਾਸਦੇਵਵਵਾਵਿਸਨਾਨਾਮੁਜਪਾਵੈ ।
satijugi satigur vaasadayv vavaa visanaa naamu japaavai|
In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.
ਦੁਆਪਰਿਸਤਿਗੁਰਹਰੀਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਹਾਹਾਹਰਿਹਰਿਨਾਮੁਜਪਾਵੈ
duaapari satigur haree krisan haahaa hari hari naamu japaavai|
The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.
ਤੇਤੇਸਤਿਗੁਰਰਾਮਜੀਰਾਰਾਰਾਮਜਪੇਸੁਖੁਪਾਵੈ
taytay satigur raam jee raaraa raam japay sukhu paavai|
In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.
ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿਨਾਨਕਗੁਰਗੋਬਿੰਦਗਗਾਗੋਬਿੰਦਨਾਮੁਅਲਾਵੈ
kalijugi naanak gur gobind gagaa gobind naamu alaavai|
In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.
ਚਾਰੇਜਾਗੇਚਹੁਜੁਗੀਪੰਚਾਇਣਵਿਚਿਜਾਇਸਮਾਵੈ
chaaray jaagay chahu jugee panchaain vichi jaai samaavai|
The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.
ਚਾਰੋਅਛਰਇਕੁਕਰਿਵਾਹਗੁਰੂਜਪੁਮੰਤ੍ਰਜਪਾਵੈ
chaaro achhar iku kari vaahaguroo japu mantr japaavai|
When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,
ਜਹਾਤੇਉਪਜਿਆਫਿਰਿਤਹਾਸਮਾਵੈ ॥੪੯॥੧॥
jahaa tay upajiaa dhiri tahaa samaavai ॥49॥1॥
The jiv merges again in its origin.
// 1 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji (Pauri 49)
more lines:
ਅੰਬਰੀਕਕਉਦੀਓਅਭੈਪਦੁਰਾਜੁਭਭੀਖਨਅਧਿਕਕਰਿਓ ॥
Ambrīk ka▫o ḏī▫o abẖai paḏ rāj bẖabẖīkẖan aḏẖik kari▫o.
The Lord blessed Ambreek with fearless dignity, and elevated Bhabhikhan to become king.
ਨਉਨਿਧਿਠਾਕੁਰਿਦਈਸੁਦਾਮੈਧ੍ਰੂਅਅਟਲੁਅਜਹੂਨਟਰਿਓ ॥੩॥
Na▫o niḏẖ ṯẖākur ḏa▫ī suḏāmai ḏẖarū▫a atal ajhū na tari▫o. ||3||
Sudama's Lord and Master blessed him with the nine treasures; he made Dhroo permanent and unmoving; as the north star, he still hasn't moved. ||3||
ਭਗਤਹੇਤਿਮਾਰਿਓਹਰਨਾਖਸੁਨਰਸਿੰਘਰੂਪਹੋਇਦੇਹਧਰਿਓ ॥
Bẖagaṯ heṯ māri▫o harnākẖas narsingẖ rūp ho▫e ḏeh ḏẖari▫o.
For the sake of His devotee Prahlaad, God assumed the form of the man-lion, and killed Harnaakhash.
ਨਾਮਾਕਹੈਭਗਤਿਬਸਿਕੇਸਵਅਜਹੂੰਬਲਿਕੇਦੁਆਰਖਰੋ ॥੪॥੧॥
Nāmā kahai bẖagaṯ bas kesav ajahūʼn bal ke ḏu▫ār kẖaro. ||4||1||
Says Naam Dayv, the beautiful-haired Lord is in the power of His devotees; He is standing at Balraja's door, even now! ||4||1||

more lines:

ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦਕੈਕਾਰਜਿਹਰਿਆਪੁਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥
Parahlāḏ kai kāraj har āp ḏikẖā▫i▫ā.
For the sake of Prahlaad, the Lord Himself appeared.
ਭਗਤਾਕਾਬੋਲੁਆਗੈਆਇਆ ॥੧੦॥
Bẖagṯā kā bol āgai ā▫i▫ā. ||10|| T
he word of the devotee came true. ||10||
I did not want this topic to go THIS off topic, first this topic went off topic from the real topic, then off topic away from Shambuka. All I am saying is to let go of your mind, and let Paramatma go kirpa. I can post more lines if you'd like. But if you are actually interested, kindly message me instead of making this go more off topic (I am to blame as well for this to go off topic, so my apologizes to the admin ji).
Bhul Chuk Maaf Kijye Sri Gurudev, Sri 11 Gurudev, Sri Vaheguru ji!!

You completely ignore EVERYTHING I posted an simply resorted to posting the same lines you post all the time. Time and Time again I've pointed out WHY they don't work, There's a whole Euology dismantling you're arguments but as usual you ignore it, an ENTIRE portion where it rips apart why worshiping these gods is pointles but you ignored it. I never added anything into Vaishta's words, I stated what he said and you simply can't handle.it. Guru Gobind Singh Ji even narrated the story AND even he never said anything about bad intentions. You'll probably argue now that Guru Gobind Singh JI didn't know what happened.

The Vaishnaav quote you seem to post nonstop is taking so far out of context it's hilarious. Guru Sahib also makes a similar point for Muslims, I guess muslims are just as blessed and following Muhammed is ok. If you bothered reading a bit deeper into Bhai Gurdas Ji's // you'd know what it is actually alluding to. It alludes to HONEST living, the same quote is there for Muslims too. Guru Nanak Dev Ji when asked who was better Muslim or Hindu he replied Honest living is above all things. This is recorded in Bhai Gurdas Ji's vars AGAIN. If you bother reading the Gurmukhi it doesn't mention DEVOTEE

Visnu mentioned there means all preserving. Hari there means - the nurturer. Same with Govind and so on. ONCE AGAIN you try to push it all means the Hindu gods when time and time again It's been proven it doesn't. You look them so much you ignore Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bani which completely once again because it destroys you're arguments. Feel free to properly inspect where Guru Gobind singh Ji refers to Krishna as an Worm.

Please point me to how much more clearer it needs to be when Guru Sahib even asks where the gods go during Judgement hour.

Literally done here lol. You are a brick wall with you're head so far up Hinduism it's almost comical. Keep telling yourself worshiping Devi-Devta is ok. Every single Pracharik preaches against it and every single aspect of Sikh history lol. You'll now start a lecture on why That Dasam Granth Bani is probably wrong.

Guru Gobind singh Ji called them all fools for following gods and worshipping Idols. Waheguru thyself even said they were too absorbed in power and weren't doing their duty. You're saying you know more than Waheguru by adding your useless cr@p into his divine words.

So please feel free to counter the part where Guru Gobind Singh Ji refers to them all as Useles/bland religions. You wont :) because you can't explain any sort of twist onto it. Fact of the matter is you're probably a hindu masquerading as a Sikh in an attempt to push Sikhs into idol worshiping again. I pray no vunerable person fall for you nonesense :)

Next time you want to take information please consult LEGITIMATE Sikhi sites and not sites like this.

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=7474

Anyways definitely off topic so done now.

If I feel the need to have my brain subjugated to horrific anti-gurmat torture i'll give you a PM.

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Meanwhile...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3266059/Housemaid-hand-chopped-female-Saudi-Arabian-employer-complaining-authorities-tortured-deprived-food.html

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Housemaid has her hand chopped off by female Saudi Arabian employer after complaining to authorities she had been tortured and deprived of food
  • Kasturi Munirathinam was working as a cleaner in Saudi city of Riyadh
  • Her arm was cut off, allegedly by her employer after she tried to escape
  • Indian cleaner claims she had been tortured and deprived of food

By Tom Wyke for MailOnline

Published: 09:39, 9 October 2015 | Updated: 15:23, 9 October 2015

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An Indian housemaid had her hand hacked off allegedly by her female employer in Saudi Arabia and has complained she has been tortured whilst working in Riyadh.

Kasturi Munirathinam, originally from the south Indian city of Chennai, had been earning £150 a month while working as a cleaner for a household in the Saudi capital.

Since she started working in Riyadh, she said she had been tortured and deliberately deprived of food by her employers.

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Kasturi Munirathinam, originally from the south Indian city of Chennai, had been earning £150 a month while working a cleaner for a household in the Saudi capital.

Her family said that when Ms Munirathinam tried to escape, her employer decided to punish her and cut off her hand.

'When she tried to escape harassment and torture, her right hand was chopped off by the woman employer. She fell down and sustained serious spinal injuries,' her sister, S Vijayakumari, told the Press Trust of India.

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'The incident happened after… she complained about torture and non-payment of wages by her employer.' she said.

Ms Munirathinam was taken to hospital in Riyadh and her condition has now reportedly stabilised.

A video has emerged on social media, allegedly showing the moments after Ms Munirathinam was attacked.

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Since she started working for Riyadh, Kasturi Munirathinam alleged she had been tortured and deliberately deprived of food by her employers

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Ms Munirathinam was taken to hospital in Riyadh and her condition has now reportedly stabilised

'I pleaded with the lady not to harm me but she kicked me, punched me and cut off my arm. I want to go back home. Please help me,' she says in the video according to the Times of India.

'Kasturi's employer was angered after she apprised local officials about the harassment she was facing there, she was not even provided food,' her sister S Vijayakumari told the Press Trust of India news agency.

'When she tried to escape the harassment and torture, her right hand was chopped off by the woman employer. She fell down and sustained serious spinal injuries,' she said.

Sushma Swaraj, India's minister for internal affairs, tweeted about the woman's plight in Saudi Arabia.

'Chopping of hand of Indian lady - We are very much disturbed over the brutal manner in which Indian lady has been treated in Saudi Arabia,' she wrote.

It is thought Ms Munirathinam sought work in Saudi Arabia to help earn money for her husband and four children in India.

Indian foreign ministry spokesperson Vikas Swarup has spoken out against the attack on the Indian woman, telling the Indian Express that India had launched an investigation into the attack and will 'continue to seek justice for the victim'.

'Our embassy in Riyadh has taken up the matter with the Saudi Foreign Office and asked for strict action in the matter and severe punishment for the sponsor,' he said.

He said a case of attempted murder should be lodged against the sponsor 'so that he is punished, if found guilty as per law.'

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