Praying For Things

[Balkaar]

The American satirist Ambrose Bierce, in his Devil's Dictionary, defines prayer as the following: " Prayer - The request that the laws of nature be suspended in favour of the petitioner, himself admittedly unworthy". I wonder if Mr Bierce hasn't hit upon something there.

When Guru Arjan Dev was being tortured on the tati tavi they could have cried out to the Almighty for reprieve or mercy. Instead they uttered "Mittha Lagai Tera Bana". They spoke thusly because they knew that Almighty's Hukam was already ordained, and they accepted this as the Lord's humble servant. As their Sikhs, we are supposed to abide by our Gurus' teachings. One of the most important is the emphasis on Nimrata. I can't be alone in believing that the exercise of praying to God for something, asking him to actually amend his Hukam on our behalfs, pitiful worms that we are, is an expression of something altogether different from humility - the complete opposite in fact. If we are to pray for anything, to take the term quite loosely and divorced of its major connotations, shouldn't we pray for the strength to overcome whatever Waheguru chooses to visit upon us, for good or for ill?

(* I don't consider Nitnem praying, meditation or contemplation would be labels better suited to the practice*)

[MisterrSingh]

Praying for male heirs is another one our people love to do. Cracks me up. I'm not sure how things are in recent times though, maybe it's changed.

[scali]

In short All things exist in now there is no time (its an illusion). So to have a physical experience possible via sense and our brain this illusion of linear sequence of time events exist. So a prayer should always be of gratitude or thanks as shown by Guru Arjan Dev Ji. All events are brought to self via soul planning, subconscious or conscious. Since we have a built in Amnesia we don't recall our soul plan, which is for our own personal evolution. So the free will is always there for us to choose another experience or resist whats showing up. As we evolve we go from Addiction(I want things a certain way), Preference(I would like thing a certain way but ok if something else happens), Acceptence(I am ok with what's showing up) the SIKH way Bhana Manana.

[Balkaar]

Praying for male heirs is another one our people love to do. Cracks me up. I'm not sure how things are in recent times though, maybe it's changed.

I couldn't say, my family has been liberally peppered with sons.

Also praying for good exam results. During, and even more weirdly, AFTER the exam.

Apparently people expect Guru Sahib to break into the examiner's office under cover of darkness and change their marks.

[Balkaar]

In short All things exist in now there is no time (its an illusion). So to have a physical experience possible via sense and our brain this illusion of linear sequence of time events exist. So a prayer should always be of gratitude or thanks as shown by Guru Arjan Dev Ji. All events are brought to self via soul planning, subconscious or conscious. Since we have a built in Amnesia we don't recall our soul plan, which is for our own personal evolution. So the free will is always there for us to choose another experience or resist whats showing up. As we evolve we go from Addiction(I want things a certain way), Preference(I would like thing a certain way but ok if something else happens), Acceptence(I am ok with what's showing up) the SIKH way Bhana Manana.

Interesting. But is it necessary to skip from stone to stone (addiction to preference to acceptance)? Would it not be better to take a leap straight to acceptance - is that impossible/very difficult in your opinion?

[MisterrSingh]

Why would Sri Guru Arjan Dev Sahib ji ask for mercy when he is the symbol of mercy? He is one with Sri Parameshwara and Sri Parameshwara has no pain so it makes no sense for anyone to say he needed to ask for relief from pain.

As for praying for material items, yes it is fine. If someone has decided to take initiation into our religion who else would they ask besides Sri Vaheguru for their manokamnas to be fulfilled? Of course, only positive wishes will always be fulfilled through Sri Vaheguru's ways. Everyone will eventually reach an avastha high enough in this life or the ones coming by, until then if they ask for something with a clean heart there is no problem with that as they are nadaan in that state.

That's exactly the kind of thing Balkaar Singh is arguing against. And these "manokamana" let's not kid ourselves, they're material things like a better job, more money, a bigger house and / or car. Rarely, if ever, do we ever ask solely for peace of mind, or the blessing to be closer to God.

If someone decides to become a Sikh they aren't doing God a favour. It's not, "I've scratched your back, now you scratch mine." We become Sikh because it benefits our soul, or whichever positive spiritual slant you'd like to place on it. To expect material reward is just so wrong.

[scali]

Interesting. But is it necessary to skip from stone to stone (addiction to preference to acceptance)? Would it not be better to take a leap straight to acceptance - is that impossible/very difficult in your opinion?

I guess that's why we have reincarnations, we raise the bar every time we are born again for our evolution, towards our ultimate goal of conscious mergence with Whaeguru. So that we have a choice of living in an out of illusion at our will like our Gurus. To be accepting of anything that's showing up will require full faith in Whaeguru, but as we know people are at different level of awareness from Atheist , Agnostics.........It become easier as we evolve. Also its possible to create any sub-reality (an illusion even Atheism) out of the ultimate reality by our beliefs due to our free will.

[MisterrSingh]

Okay well until they have that wish fulfilled who knows how much more time it would take for them to finally move on from it right?? It's not a crime at all to ask for materialistic things from Sri Vaheguru ji, Of course I was talking about those people who have a low avastha, and what you are saying is right but it is beyond them to understand. So, it is fine for them to ask for things from Sri Vaheguru ji, but it is seen that those same people will one day understand that it was not worth asking for (unless it was health/dharm etc). Sometimes people have to experience situations to understand later what is left and what is right.

You know what, Preet Ji, that actually makes sense. Sometimes people aren't ready or are even unaware of higher stages of consciousness, and as such they are stuck at that material level, not realising such trivialities are inconsequential next to what they should be asking to be blessed with.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Because you need things to live and be able to actually do Bhagti, doing Ardaas to Akaal Purakh for things is not condemned. Asking out of greed rather than necessity is a whole another thing, but Gurbani/Shabad Guru does not condemn asking per se.

ਧੰਨਾ ॥

ਗੋਪਾਲ ਤੇਰਾ ਆਰਤਾ ॥

ਜੋ ਜਨ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰੰਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਕਾਜ ਸਵਾਰਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਦਾਲਿ ਸੀਧਾ ਮਾਗਉ ਘੀਉ ॥

ਹਮਰਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਕਰੈ ਨਿਤ ਜੀਉ ॥

ਪਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀਆ ਛਾਦਨੁ ਨੀਕਾ ॥

ਅਨਾਜੁ ਮਗਉ ਸਤ ਸੀ ਕਾ ॥੧॥

ਗਊ ਭੈਸ ਮਗਉ ਲਾਵੇਰੀ ॥

ਇਕ ਤਾਜਨਿ ਤੁਰੀ ਚੰਗੇਰੀ ॥

ਘਰ ਕੀ ਗੀਹਨਿ ਚੰਗੀ ॥

ਜਨੁ ਧੰਨਾ ਲੇਵੈ ਮੰਗੀ ॥੨॥੪॥

Dhannaa:

O Lord of the world, this is Your lamp-lit worship service.

You are the Arranger of the affairs of those humble beings who perform Your devotional worship service. ||1||Pause||

Lentils, flour and ghee - these things, I beg of You.

My mind shall ever be pleased.

Shoes, fine clothes,

And grain of seven kinds - I beg of You. ||1||

A milk cow, and a water buffalo, I beg of You,

And a fine Turkestani horse.

A good wife to care for my home

- Your humble servant Dhanna begs for these things, Lord. ||2||4|| (695)

ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ ॥

ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥

ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥

ਹਉ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਸੰਤਨ ਰੇਨਾ ॥

ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਸੀ ਕਾ ਦੇਨਾ ॥੧॥

ਮਾਧੋ ਕੈਸੀ ਬਨੈ ਤੁਮ ਸੰਗੇ ॥

ਆਪਿ ਨ ਦੇਹੁ ਤ ਲੇਵਉ ਮੰਗੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਦੁਇ ਸੇਰ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਚੂਨਾ ॥

ਪਾਉ ਘੀਉ ਸੰਗਿ ਲੂਨਾ ॥

ਅਧ ਸੇਰੁ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਦਾਲੇ ॥

ਮੋ ਕਉ ਦੋਨਉ ਵਖਤ ਜਿਵਾਲੇ ॥੨॥

ਖਾਟ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਚਉਪਾਈ ॥

ਸਿਰਹਾਨਾ ਅਵਰ ਤੁਲਾਈ ॥

ਊਪਰ ਕਉ ਮਾਂਗਉ ਖੀਂਧਾ ॥

ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰੈ ਜਨੁ ਥੀ.ਧਾ ॥੩॥

ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੀਤਾ ਲਬੋ ॥

ਇਕੁ ਨਾਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਮੈ ਫਬੋ ॥

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥

ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਤਉ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੧੧॥

Raag Sorat'h:

I am so hungry, I cannot perform devotional worship service.

Here, Lord, take back Your mala.

I beg for the dust of the feet of the Saints.

I do not owe anyone anything. ||1||

O Lord, how can I be with You?

If You do not give me Yourself, then I shall beg until I get You. ||Pause||

I ask for two kilos of flour,

And half a pound of ghee, and salt.

I ask for a pound of beans,

Which I shall eat twice a day. ||2||

I ask for a cot, with four legs,

And a pillow and mattress.

I ask for a quit to cover myself.

Your humble servant shall perform Your devotional worship service with love. ||3||

I have no greed;

Your Name is the only ornament I wish for.

Says Kabeer, my mind is pleased and appeased;

Now that my mind is pleased and appeased, I have come to know the Lord. ||4||11|| (656)

[InderjitS]

The American satirist Ambrose Bierce, in his Devil's Dictionary, defines prayer as the following: " Prayer - The request that the laws of nature be suspended in favour of the petitioner, himself admittedly unworthy". I wonder if Mr Bierce hasn't hit upon something there.

When Guru Arjan Dev was being tortured on the tati tavi they could have cried out to the Almighty for reprieve or mercy. Instead they uttered "Mittha Lagai Tera Bana". They spoke thusly because they knew that Almighty's Hukam was already ordained, and they accepted this as the Lord's humble servant. As their Sikhs, we are supposed to abide by our Gurus' teachings. One of the most important is the emphasis on Nimrata. I can't be alone in believing that the exercise of praying to God for something, asking him to actually amend his Hukam on our behalfs, pitiful worms that we are, is an expression of something altogether different from humility - the complete opposite in fact. If we are to pray for anything, to take the term quite loosely and divorced of its major connotations, shouldn't we pray for the strength to overcome whatever Waheguru chooses to visit upon us, for good or for ill?

(* I don't consider Nitnem praying, meditation or contemplation would be labels better suited to the practice*)

Instead they uttered "Mittha Lagai Tera Bana".

Slight correction - Tera Bhana Meetha Lagai

Ardas is a powerful tool and performed with real conviction anything is possible, yes even the changing of grades after the event. Nothing is impossible where the relationship of Hari and his jan is concerned. It is true we should ask for naam dhi dhaat and Gursikhi jeevan come what may, but we are his 'kids' and unworthy and still ask for material well being and all sorts of other maya.

Bhagat Dhanna Ji in his innocent manner and beautifully captured in Aarti asked for a horse, a good wife, quality grains. clothes and gheo.

There are numerous Sakhis that back the power of Ardas (yes I know you are not questioning this) and sometimes even trivial requests are fulfilled depending on the state of the requester. This is one reason spiritually advanced souls speak very little in case the inadvertently say something they might regret.