Guest Swan

Divorce

47 posts in this topic

15 hours ago, Guest Sangat please help said:

Help from Sangat is needed.

Is divorcing a borderline wife wrong if extreme but episodes occur month after month which involve hysterical tears and behavior?

what do you mean borderline ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you JKV I was hoping you could advise too as another one whose posts I really respect.

Borderline as in borderline personality disorder in wife.

Thank you

(Extreme but "regular" histrionic episodes I meant above btw)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16/08/2015 at 4:18 PM, MisterrSingh said:

There's something similar in Sharia that's getting some bad press lately. Apparently, it's possible for a Muslim male to divorce his wife - from a religious Islamic perspective - by saying talaaq three times (not all at once; some guys use the first utterance of the word as a warning to the wife to buck up her ideas. The third time is supposedly the clincher), as long as the nikaah hasn't been registered legally of course. The system is open to abuse as has been evidenced by a few instances where the wife has gone to a Sharia hearing for a ruling from an Islamic scholar, in which instance the feeling is that the judgement almost always emerges in favour of the guy.

Invariably, there's a few Muslim feminist types that have brought this to the attention of the western media with the obvious response being how despicably misogynistic the whole thing is for the wife. The last time I heard there may have been a legal ruling in the UK that insisted Islamic marriages must be registered, I could be wrong though.

a guy can divorce like that but the musilmah cannot she has to go to sharia court who deem her children automatically as the property of the father ...like most things it is very lopsided in favour of the guys .

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Guest Sangat please advise said:

Thank you JKV I was hoping you could advise too as another one whose posts I really respect.

Borderline as in borderline personality disorder in wife.

Thank you

(Extreme but "regular" histrionic episodes I meant above btw)

Hmm Ok let's try to eliminate possible causes - financial problems (number one cause of marital problems)

                                                                   perceived lack of freedom (stuck in home, especially worse for ex-career girls )

                                                                   physical  - some women get extreme hormone swings (no jokes please) which can make them depressed, aggressive, suicidal even homicidal it could be that she needs medical assessment if as you say it is a regular thing . In this case , it really could be beyond her control . Apnian bibian do have major hormone issues here in the west because of :1. lack of sunlight 2. additives in foods which are xenoestrogens causing weightgain and abnormal facial hair.

                                                                  lack of parental guidance leading to unrealistic view of married life - frustration

                                                                  lack of communication leading to feeling of not being heard / cared about 

remember it is really hard going for a bibi to give up everything familiar and move away, lose her old id, adjust to family politics of a strange new family..etc etc ...I don't know how long you've been married but some girls need extra support and hand holding through the early years . You should try to make time to be with her and understand/listen to her it is not time wasted but time invested, which will pay off either in clearing up misunderstanding between you or for you to see if she is being unreasonable .

What does she mainly get upset about , is it the same thing/s ? 

Do you guys go out , to break up the whole day in day out routine at all ... it could alleviate a lot of built up tension , don't have to spend loads of money go to exhibitions, concerts which are free, go Gurdwara , i.e. socialise with people apart from your family group. Visit her folks if possible , some girls get homesick (yeah surprising huh) but don't feel like they can say anything because it could be misconstrued as being NOT happy in her new home. Take that pressure off her and suggest a visit ., I do it for my hubby because his folks live abroad and he feels guilty that way too if he suggests ... it cuts both ways  

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much JKV for taking your time to help advise.

Well she has a good job, earns good money, a strong bank balance and has full freedom to leave the house to work or do whatever.

She does suffer from PMS related depression and mood swings which fair enough is hormonal but the more troubling behavior is the borderline personality disorder.

We talk daily but she feels chronic emptiness, loneliness, clingy but then cuts me down with barbs which cause distance after her outbursts. One minute i am the best and then I am the worst despicable husband in her imagination over perceived slights always turning a molehill into a mountain.

She feels that whenever a woman asks a man must deliver in the bedroom daily regardless of whether the man is on the same page at that time or not.

She is not interested in visiting family as it will cost her in earnings.

18 months married. Runs down my parents even though we live in another city. Claims in her episodes that I am the most evil person on earth and will just trip on any small issue she can imagine in her mind. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Guest Sangat please advise said:

Thank you so much JKV for taking your time to help advise.

Well she has a good job, earns good money, a strong bank balance and has full freedom to leave the house to work or do whatever.

She does suffer from PMS related depression and mood swings which fair enough is hormonal but the more troubling behavior is the borderline personality disorder.

We talk daily but she feels chronic emptiness, loneliness, clingy but then cuts me down with barbs which cause distance after her outbursts. One minute i am the best and then I am the worst despicable husband in her imagination over perceived slights always turning a molehill into a mountain.

She feels that whenever a woman asks a man must deliver in the bedroom daily regardless of whether the man is on the same page at that time or not.

She is not interested in visiting family as it will cost her in earnings.

18 months married. Runs down my parents even though we live in another city. Claims in her episodes that I am the most evil person on earth and will just trip on any small issue she can imagine in her mind. 

 

 

you keep saying BPD , but it seems that it is not an official assessed diagnosis... please be her friend and persuade her to visit her GP to get checked out including the PMS . Get her to start taking vitamin B complex especially B3 immediately because the lack of B3 you can become subject to  extreme psychological stress , aggressive outbursts , insomnia/sleep disturbance, worsening of PMS and depression . I hear extreme self-esteem issues and compensating by being controlling stemming from blood chemistry faults

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/24/2017 at 10:08 PM, Guest que said:

She doesn't need a 'divorce' but treatment and your support. BPD is treatable and recovery is possible. 

Thank you that's good advice but unfortunately she doesn't want therapy as she believes she has no problem.

I have offered to pay for the psychotherapy but she fundamentally believes that there is nothing with her as she minored in psychiatry.

Though it's treatable in certain cases the patient has to want to want to change their life within themselves i think.

I think she falls into the resistant to change category. But one positive is that I don't believe she has cheated on me.

If you are in this field do you relate at all to the following (that i can relate with)

http://www.sharischreiber.com/anycost.html

https://pro.psychcentral.com/treatment-resistance-in-a-woman-with-borderline-personality-disorder/001369.html

Thank you for taking the time to advise me and I never believed in divorce either but after forgiving her patiently several times in the last 18months I now feel at the end of my tether and feel that married life should be better than this type of hell.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

you keep saying BPD , but it seems that it is not an official assessed diagnosis... please be her friend and persuade her to visit her GP to get checked out including the PMS . Get her to start taking vitamin B complex especially B3 immediately because the lack of B3 you can become subject to  extreme psychological stress , aggressive outbursts , insomnia/sleep disturbance, worsening of PMS and depression . I hear extreme self-esteem issues and compensating by being controlling stemming from blood chemistry faults

 

Thank you JKV and yes you are right it is not an official diagnosis as she refuses therapy or to visit any shrink (even if i pay).

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/personality-disorders/borderline-personality-disorder.htm

The only behaviors she doesn't do (as far as i know) is take drugs or have sex with other men.

Having said that she cries hysterically if she doesn't get it when she wants and she has a high drive.

I have managed to get her to go to the Doctor's but not to discuss her inner main issues only superficial health issues.

Lucking she does take Vitamin B complex but sadly on the depression/anger/emptiness/crying it hasn't made any difference.

I really wish I could help more but I have tried for 18 months and I feel that i don't break free now I will be dragged down with her as after a while all the depression/tears/criticism of me/running down of my parents has created distance in the marriage.

My heart feels like if i am supposedly the cause of all her problems then maybe we can be happier apart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So much negativity towards marriage from the posters here.  Marriage is an examination of two persons ability to get on with each other.  Sign of the times, people are more selfish and less patient

marriage is a good thing and so are prenuptials but marriage does come with all sorts of nonsense, such as other people poking their nose into your life, and of course women being crafty 

Edited by singh598

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, singh598 said:

So much negativity towards marriage from the posters here.  Marriage is an examination of two persons ability to get on with each other.  Sign of the times, people are more selfish and less patient

marriage is a good thing and so are prenuptials but marriage does come with all sorts of nonsense, such as other people poking their nose into your life, and of course women being crafty 

I believe in marriage and being a good partner if we want to have a good partner in return, it's not about winning in a selfish self-centred way but, supporting and sharing i.e. team win.  Veer ji is trying hard to understand something that is beyond the average experience but there is always hope. I would suggest not saying to someone you need to see a shrink (instantly defensive) because it shuts down the trust and mutual respect. 

Perhaps ask her how she sees sex since she is compensation/medicating her stress that way,  if something at work is triggering the crying jags ... is she looking to get pregnant ? so many possibilities it will take time to unravel , but I still stand by the idea she sees her GP and talks about her problems with the doctor he/she will know how to handle it. 

What is her profession ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you again JKV. 

And I was careful not to phrase it as "go see a shrink" and I suggested instead that we could both benefit from counseling.

You're absolutely right about the Doctor being able to recommend good dietetics and appropriate counsellors.

Apparently the crying is totally down to me - as i don't give her enough and she feels chronic emptiness which I don't solve.

She doesn't want pregnancy at this stage as it would get in the way of her pharma career (so she knows medicines).

Material progress is more important to her than than inner sukh/shanti. She has no interest in attending the Gurdwara.

I would never say that our marriage problems are 100% down to her but she sees me as either 100% the nicest husband out there or the Devil incarnate when she has borderline episodes and 100% says everything is down to me and has threatened divorce several times - despite me never even shouting at her or disrespecting her. My main faults that i can admit to are that i have a lower nocturnal drive than her, i don't believe in a flash house or swanky car being necassary to be happy in life.

That's why i have thought that maybe she can be happier with someone who can make her happy the way she wants and I could find an ordinary normal Sikh girl not into this histrionic drama continually. But at the same time I don't want her or her family to suffer on account of a divorce. It seems like I either sacrifice my happiness for her family or we try to build new lives.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest ji, although I know nothing about BPD, I agree with Jkv London penji, that she should see the docs again. Their professionals will have more knowledge and refer her to other specialists than will help her with all the different symptoms. 

It must be really hard for you, you have been a very patient spouse. 

Jkv penji has covered most of what I was to say, but may I add that sometimes when people are going through depression or the symptoms of their health condition, they tend to try to fulfill happiness from materialistic things, but some tend to go OTT and don't realise it. It's because their souls aren't feeling a connection with those close to them. It could be spouse or family members, so they distract from love of partner or family members to love of things or other people. Atma Di kami hundi a ke koi hega nai ja ke koi chaunda nai. The soul feels empty, and it comes on the family members, which they have to tolerate and deal with, which is difficult for them also. 

I suggest you also get counselling as you are going through a lot aswell through this. It's not just the person with the health condition that suffers, but also those around them it affects. 

The main thing that helps relationships when it comes to a family member having a health condition is love and patience. Don't push her to the spiritual side, she will only do it in her own pace. And if you can get relief from Gurbani or Kirtan, you carry on, because it will be helping you to cope. She may look at you one day and see your love for God, and want to also. It must feel like you are a doctor or nurse and her the patient at times, than a married couple. 

Try to get the marriage routine back in life. She may not want to sit next to you or do her own thing, but keep checking on her, ensuring her she's not not alone. And I hope in turn she comes to see that you do love her and her love comes back. 

All the best with the docs, don't give up. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DShe has suggested divorce, so u r right in thinking about it. However the dilemma of ruining her familys life vs ur happiness is hard. Therefore u need more answers n research. And u can only get these answers from ppl involved. So when shes in a good mood, bring up wat she has said about divorce. Say do u really want one? I think she will say No, u r the best. Then say but not all the time, not when u get mad. And I know u will get mad again. You have an issue, because these mood swings happen periodically. Im tired of dealing with it. See a doctor or we getting divorced."

Force her to get diagnosed. You dont want to go further with divorce or having kids until u know more. Is it genetic? Is it curable? Does she even have a condition or is it her personality? Can it be controlled thru pills or she has to work on her thoughts? 

Then once u have this diagnosis, talk to her parents. At the very least, warn them that u r thinking of divorce and why before u divorce her. Discuss ur options with them. If she refuses to get diagnosed, get her parents involved. Tell them u cant continue in this hell, either she gets treated or divorced.

Also, u r saying u want to divorce her because she is more materialistic and has more drive than u. And u think a guy similar to her will make her happier. But u r ignoring the elephant in the room. Will her BPD disappear if she gets away from u? If yes, than i dont think she has BPD cuz diseases dont work like that. And if No, then divorcing her wont help her. 

Anyways good luck. You need to ask her if she wants divorce, if she doesn't then lay down the law.  That she has to treat u better if she wants to keep u. She can do 2 things for that: get diagnosed and control herself to at least not get hysterical.

Secomd discuss it with ur parents and her parents. If this was an arranged marriage, ur parents cant just leave u in the lurch. This was their bad decision n they have to fix it. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much Simran Ji.

Very kind of you to type that helpful advice above (which I will follow like JKV Bhenji's) in relation to trying to get her to go to the Doctor's about this.

Given the challenges you have faced and still faced my issues are nothing. They really aren't. My Chardi Kallah hasn't been affected overall even though the continual episodes are troubling when they erupt. 

Your materialism makes total sense. Honestly I'm just an ordinary man and nowhere near as good as your husband or Angelo Singh. It's clear to me that wife has never truly loved me and was never really ready emotionally for marriage but I will try my best to ensure she gets the treatment she needs so that we can both have a better future somehow.

All the best to you always Simran Ji

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Guest Sangat please advise said:

Thank you so much Simran Ji.

Very kind of you to type that helpful advice above (which I will follow like JKV Bhenji's) in relation to trying to get her to go to the Doctor's about this.

Given the challenges you have faced and still faced my issues are nothing. They really aren't. My Chardi Kallah hasn't been affected overall even though the continual episodes are troubling when they erupt. 

Your materialism makes total sense. Honestly I'm just an ordinary man and nowhere near as good as your husband or Angelo Singh. It's clear to me that wife has never truly loved me and was never really ready emotionally for marriage but I will try my best to ensure she gets the treatment she needs so that we can both have a better future somehow.

All the best to you always Simran Ji

Guest ji, I have no idea who you are, but by comparing my challenges to yours, I'm not able to say that I'm in a worse position or better position than you. You see, everybody has their own problems in life and at different phases based on their past karams, or present or even through wrong decisions. Only the person with the problem or obstacles will know exactly what they are going through, and for each person the tolerance level and to be able to either deal or not be able to deal with it will be only specific to themselves and the reactions different also. 

It's good, your spiritual side hasn't been affected, which for myself I can't say it's been easy. There have been times where faith has dropped and rock bottom low. But it's from realising and seeing that I'm not alone, there are others that have their own problems too. 

You are the same as any soul but it's just how to deal with it that one has to learn. It's not been easy for my husband either, he never used to be as understanding, and you are right about what you said, life is full of challenges. When you think one set has finished, then something else starts. You should not compare yourself to others in regards to how your marital relationship is, as you don't know the whole story of what somebody else's is like. Nor should you think of yourself as any less than another, be positive about the future. And ask Waheguru to help you. 

Somebody once said to me, that if we can't change the people around us, then the next thing is to change ourselves. Meaning change the ways we deal with thing or see them from a different perspective and I may see a change.  I did try this a few times and it did work.  I do try to remember to do that, but tend to forget too sometimes. 

About the love bit you mention, my thinking is that it's not possible to love somebody from the word go. It takes time and may take many hurdles to create that connection between a couple. It's like in our community, one can't live with somebody before marriage to get to know the other person properly, that only happens until after marriage, and the care and love develops through time. Some takes quicker than others, but others may be later. All depends on the type of problems that have to be faced. 

But as always I will say, one can only advise or give opinions, the end decisions are yours to make. So do whatever you are comfortable with, considering the ways to deal with it, try them at least and at least you won't regret making hasty decisions or make the wrong decision until you realise it's too late. 

Thank you ji for your blessings too. 🙏🏻 Waheguru. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a complete and utter nightmare of a woman taking advantage of a good guy, knowing full well that he's too much of a gentleman to do anything about it. This type of behaviour can be traced back to the parents indulging their child in most cases. 

People like that don't change, OP, unless you visibly establish that you're aware a line has been crossed from which there is no return. At the moment you're indulging her, and she's relishing this because she realises you're powerless. Nothing in your relationship and your interactions with her up to this point suggest she has any reason to fear the end of your relationship, so she's conducting herself in a manner that suggests she's comfortable in the knowledge of there being no consequences to her behaviour. I doubt you'll suddenly start laying down the law and change your own style of dealing with her, so you only realistically have two options: 1. Continue mollifying and appeasing her, hoping she has an epiphany about how wonderfully tolerant and accommodating you are due to your desire for making the marriage work. 2. You steel yourself and tell her to buck up her ideas, get the help she needs (and you'll support her as required) but she needs to behave with decency towards you and your parents CONSISTENTLY. 

There are NO half measures when it comes to dealing with people such as your wife. Reason and understanding only come into affect when both parties are capable of such conduct. It's not a one-sided deal. 

Forgive me, but she realises you're weak, and she's making the most of it. That's ultimately what's happening here.

Edited by MisterrSingh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/26/2017 at 7:54 PM, Guest Ask her said:

DShe has suggested divorce, so u r right in thinking about it. However the dilemma of ruining her familys life vs ur happiness is hard. Therefore u need more answers n research. And u can only get these answers from ppl involved. So when shes in a good mood, bring up wat she has said about divorce. Say do u really want one? I think she will say No, u r the best. Then say but not all the time, not when u get mad. And I know u will get mad again. You have an issue, because these mood swings happen periodically. Im tired of dealing with it. See a doctor or we getting divorced."

Force her to get diagnosed. You dont want to go further with divorce or having kids until u know more. Is it genetic? Is it curable? Does she even have a condition or is it her personality? Can it be controlled thru pills or she has to work on her thoughts? 

Then once u have this diagnosis, talk to her parents. At the very least, warn them that u r thinking of divorce and why before u divorce her. Discuss ur options with them. If she refuses to get diagnosed, get her parents involved. Tell them u cant continue in this hell, either she gets treated or divorced.

Also, u r saying u want to divorce her because she is more materialistic and has more drive than u. And u think a guy similar to her will make her happier. But u r ignoring the elephant in the room. Will her BPD disappear if she gets away from u? If yes, than i dont think she has BPD cuz diseases dont work like that. And if No, then divorcing her wont help her. 

Anyways good luck. You need to ask her if she wants divorce, if she doesn't then lay down the law.  That she has to treat u better if she wants to keep u. She can do 2 things for that: get diagnosed and control herself to at least not get hysterical.

Secomd discuss it with ur parents and her parents. If this was an arranged marriage, ur parents cant just leave u in the lurch. This was their bad decision n they have to fix it. 

 

 

First off Guest AH thanks so much for taking that time on my request with your reply, i really appreciate it.

Yes you were absolutely right she rows back about divorce when she is not in a bad mood.

Yes it's clear that she has go to counseling (which I am happy to go to as well separately so that she doesn't feel victimised).

You were also right that even if she was with another person the BPD won't go away (though perhaps might not be triggered as often) so counseling is vital either way. Perhaps me saying that I am going to counseling might encourage her to do what's necassary (along with me suggesting that divorce could become a reality if things don't change for the better for both of us).

Thank you

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/27/2017 at 11:02 PM, simran345 said:

Guest ji, I have no idea who you are, but by comparing my challenges to yours, I'm not able to say that I'm in a worse position or better position than you. You see, everybody has their own problems in life and at different phases based on their past karams, or present or even through wrong decisions. Only the person with the problem or obstacles will know exactly what they are going through, and for each person the tolerance level and to be able to either deal or not be able to deal with it will be only specific to themselves and the reactions different also. 

It's good, your spiritual side hasn't been affected, which for myself I can't say it's been easy. There have been times where faith has dropped and rock bottom low. But it's from realising and seeing that I'm not alone, there are others that have their own problems too. 

You are the same as any soul but it's just how to deal with it that one has to learn. It's not been easy for my husband either, he never used to be as understanding, and you are right about what you said, life is full of challenges. When you think one set has finished, then something else starts. You should not compare yourself to others in regards to how your marital relationship is, as you don't know the whole story of what somebody else's is like. Nor should you think of yourself as any less than another, be positive about the future. And ask Waheguru to help you. 

Somebody once said to me, that if we can't change the people around us, then the next thing is to change ourselves. Meaning change the ways we deal with thing or see them from a different perspective and I may see a change.  I did try this a few times and it did work.  I do try to remember to do that, but tend to forget too sometimes. 

About the love bit you mention, my thinking is that it's not possible to love somebody from the word go. It takes time and may take many hurdles to create that connection between a couple. It's like in our community, one can't live with somebody before marriage to get to know the other person properly, that only happens until after marriage, and the care and love develops through time. Some takes quicker than others, but others may be later. All depends on the type of problems that have to be faced. 

But as always I will say, one can only advise or give opinions, the end decisions are yours to make. So do whatever you are comfortable with, considering the ways to deal with it, try them at least and at least you won't regret making hasty decisions or make the wrong decision until you realise it's too late. 

Thank you ji for your blessings too. 🙏🏻 Waheguru. 

Thank you so much Simran Ji. Your whole message was so heartfelt and I really appreciate it.

I feel so positive and blessed to receive the kind guidance from the Sangat.

I totally agree that usually true love can only build over time after marriage through sincerity.

And hopefully with counseling these issues in the marriage can be solved.

But if there are no positive changes then I know that at least I tried my best.

Thank you

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Sounds like a complete and utter nightmare of a woman taking advantage of a good guy, knowing full well that he's too much of a gentleman to do anything about it. This type of behaviour can be traced back to the parents indulging their child in most cases. 

People like that don't change, OP, unless you visibly establish that you're aware a line has been crossed from which there is no return. At the moment you're indulging her, and she's relishing this because she realises you're powerless. Nothing in your relationship and your interactions with her up to this point suggest she has any reason to fear the end of your relationship, so she's conducting herself in a manner that suggests she's comfortable in the knowledge of there being no consequences to her behaviour. I doubt you'll suddenly start laying down the law and change your own style of dealing with her, so you only realistically have two options: 1. Continue mollifying and appeasing her, hoping she has an epiphany about how wonderfully tolerant and accommodating you are due to your desire for making the marriage work. 2. You steel yourself and tell her to buck up her ideas, get the help she needs (and you'll support her as required) but she needs to behave with decency towards you and your parents CONSISTENTLY. 

There are NO half measures when it comes to dealing with people such as your wife. Reason and understanding only come into affect when both parties are capable of such conduct. It's not a one-sided deal. 

Forgive me, but she realises you're weak, and she's making the most of it. That's ultimately what's happening here.

Thanks a lot Misterr Singh Ji - really appreciate your time on the reply to me too.

I have to admit that I'm just a normal guy (not a perfect one) but one thing I would never dream of doing is causing a woman to cry (for any reason). So at first I thought that the fault was with me. But as the frequent episodes did not stop I started to feel that they could be manipulative acts and as I learned about BPD behavior everything started to make sense.

Yes you are right that option 1 won't ever happen and that I need to be firm for the sake of kindness in terms of insisting that she goes to her GP and gets counseling (even if I do as well). Yes I have never been horrible to her and could never dream of disrespecting her parents so she needs to have same thoughts in her heart naturally in the future, if we are to stay together.

This is what caught me by surprise - i wanted marriage to be a team win-win game (not one person manipulating the other).

So hopefully the truth of our marriage will be strengthened by counselling/treatment/kind behavior in the future.

Thank you

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Loading...