Tunisia Beach Attack

[Ranjeet01]

I know this country is not perfect but I still can't for the life of me fathom why a whole entire family would want to up sticks and move to a war zone.

I mean do these people really feel that detached from UK society?

What the hell is so bad about this country anyway?

I just don't get it:

"A family of 12 from Luton, including a baby and two grandparents, are believed to have travelled to Syria after going missing.

The family of three generations aged between one and 75 failed to return home from a holiday in Bangladesh.

They disappeared after breaking their flight with a stay in Turkey, as Jo Black explains."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkb8JjWNYu0

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33359076

What have to realise is that the British muslims are Subcontinental muslims. They have an inferiority complex when it comes Arabs, Turks and Persians.

For them moving to this Caliphate is a step up Islamically.

[MisterrSingh]

I would love to know what goes on inside these peoples heads, I really would.

One thing is for certain: their loyalty to their religion trumps everything else, even what most of us would term as the Truth, or right and wrong. If their faith says the sky is green and the grass is blue, then that's what they believe. There is no reasoning, no meeting halfway, no live and let live.

[eduardo]

Well in my book it's called madness pure and simple.

They have everything they could possibly want in the UK.

Plenty of mosques, their own faith schools and a good welfare benefit system that ensures they will never go hungry or homeless.

This country has bent over backwards to accomodate these people and it is still not enough, I guess it never will be.

[eduardo]

Anyway there is a new movie coming out soon so I don't know your thoughts on this:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/jul/02/london-has-fallen-attacked-for-insensitivity-by-77-victims-trust

[MisterrSingh]

Well in my book it's called madness pure and simple.

They have everything they could possibly want in the UK.

Plenty of mosques, their own faith schools and a good welfare benefit system that ensures they will never go hungry or homeless.

This country has bent over backwards to accomodate these people and it is still not enough, I guess it never will be.

It's not enough. It never will be enough.

What I really want to know is are even the moderates biding their time, letting the hardliners take the flack and brickbats, presenting themselves as the acceptable and conciliatory face of their religion, whilst secretly hoping for the same outcome as their visibly extreme brethren? Or am I being completely paranoid?

[Balkaar]

It's not enough. It never will be enough.

What I really want to know is are even the moderates biding their time, letting the hardliners take the flack and brickbats, presenting themselves as the acceptable and conciliatory face of their religion, whilst secretly hoping for the same outcome as their visibly extreme brethren? Or am I being completely paranoid?

I don't think so. Most of these so-called moderates haven't the faintest idea what's actually written in the Koran, just like the majority of the supposed adherents of other religions (our own religion isn't exempt from this trend either). Or, if they do, they deliberately misquote verses and search for loopholes in order to escape the obvious nastiness of the Koran. They're the sort of people that read a passage like "Kill all unbelievers wherever you find them" and then proceed to scratch their heads and ask themselves "Hmmmn, I wonder what he means by that?".

It's often said that the Islam of Al Qaeda/ ISIS is erected atop a twisted 'interpretation' of the Koran. The only ones who are doing any 'interpreting', if we consider the literal definition of the word, are the moderates whom I have just described to you brother.

[proactive]

Well in my book it's called madness pure and simple.

They have everything they could possibly want in the UK.

Plenty of mosques, their own faith schools and a good welfare benefit system that ensures they will never go hungry or homeless.

This country has bent over backwards to accomodate these people and it is still not enough, I guess it never will be.

I think you are looking at this from a western perspective. Western society has mostly abandoned religion ie Christianity and anyone who claims to be a Christian is seen as some kind freak. What matters is not belief in God but getting by in society, owning a home, a good job and retiring well possibly in a warm climate, With the secularisation of western society western people have forgotten just how important religion is for non-western people. For Muslims more so, especially as the core belief is that Islam is a religion that trumps all other religions and that Allah has made Muslims the best of people and non-Muslims are basically animals. Now put yourself in their shoes. The family in the picture believes that they are the people chosen by Allah to rule the world and YET everywhere Islam has failed. Muslim states are mostly corrupt basket cases which are one strong leader's death away from anarchy. For this family, the secular west which in their eyes in the lowest form of society and one which is an abomination to Allah is succeeding (healthcare, welfare, peaceful etc) whereas Islamic societies are a failure. So how do they rationalise this. Either they can use their common sense and admit that Islam and its ideas of society are redundant or they can go to the extreme and believe that the failure of Muslim society is not because of their adherence to Islam but because they are not adhering to Islam. So its not a case of less Islam but more Islam and hence the reason that most Muslims opt for the purer form of Islam which is Salafism and not the airy fairy Sufism which has no basis in Islam. So for this family the benefits of living in a western society will never make up for living in a pure Islamic society where Muslims are on top and non-Muslims are oppressed. That society is what they yearn for and at the moment the only place where such a society has been set up is in the aptly named Islamic state. You would think that all the media reporting of rape of Yazidi girls, homosexuals thrown from roofs and beheadings would put them off IS but then we need to understand that this is EXACTLY the type of society they yearn for.

Migration called Hijrat also has an important role as Sharia rules that if a Muslim feels that he lives in society where he is not able to practise his Islam and he cannot actively change that society then it is incumbent on him to move to a Muslim area where he will be allowed to practice Islam peacefully. Although in most peoples eyes Muslims have it easy in the UK yet for these Muslims because society is not ruled by Sharia law then it is still deficient. So either this family stays in the UK and attempts to subvert the society and change it into an Islamic one which is not so easy or they move to the ideal Islamic society which is what they have done.

[proactive]

It's not enough. It never will be enough.

What I really want to know is are even the moderates biding their time, letting the hardliners take the flack and brickbats, presenting themselves as the acceptable and conciliatory face of their religion, whilst secretly hoping for the same outcome as their visibly extreme brethren? Or am I being completely paranoid?

These so-called moderates are in fact more dangerous than the so-called extremists. The moderates lull the rest of society into thinking that the extremists are just nutcases and most Muslims are just like most other people wanting to get on in life. Meanwhile the moderates actively pursue an agenda of subverting western society into an islamic one. These moderates are no averse to lying in order to present Islam in a good light. Just listen to their calls into radio stations and TV shows, just a few days ago one so-called moderate Muslim women blatantly lied on the Wright Stuff asking Matthew Wright if he knew what the word Islam meant, when he asked her to tell him she lied and said that the 'word Islam means peace'! It means submission btw but that would not have served her purpose which was to lull the tv audience.

The difference between moderates and extremists is that the moderates are willing to bide their time and subvert the society whereas the extremists are impatient.

[proactive]

Anyway there is a new movie coming out soon so I don't know your thoughts on this:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/jul/02/london-has-fallen-attacked-for-insensitivity-by-77-victims-trust

The trailer looks good but I would be surprised if the film dealt with the issue of Islamic terrorism in a unbiased manner. Chances are the terrorists will be shown as fanatics and there will probably be a Muslim woman ideally a hijabi woman who will save the country in the end.

[proactive]

Muslims also respect force and determination. After 9/11 most Muslims believed that the attack would be seen as so terrible that this would be the end of the hospitality enjoyed by Muslims in the west. In their eyes, if such an attack had taken place in an Muslim country (say in Egypt by Coptic Christians) then Muslims would have massacred all the Copts in Egypt. So they also expected the west to take action against them but then when all the western leaders could do was turn up at the Mosque and give press conferences that Islam is a religion of peace, the Muslims perceived this as weakness and woe betide any country under attack from Muslims which shows weakness. Look at Myanmar, they have forced the Rohingya Muslims out after they raped Buddhist women and yet you don't see western Muslims rushing to their aid. Same for the Palestinians, because Israel takes no nonsense from them although Muslims in the west will support the Palestinians very few would go and fight Israel on their behalf. As Muslims believe themselves that force is right so when force is used against them, they will respect that as they will respect societies that use violence against Muslims in order to protect themselves.

Coming to the western societies, because of their treatment of their Muslims with kid gloves, Muslims see this as a weakness and hence the west as weak and ripe for a Muslim takeover. Ironically there were no attacks on the US mainland when George Bush was president but when Obama came in and was seen as weak after his apology tour of the middle east the terrorist attacks in the USA have increased.