Basics Of Sikhi Slot Cancelled @ Pk Av Gurdwara

[InderjitS]

Late for today, but just been told about this by the Mrs as I dont have a fb account.

Everythings 13 - Basics of Sikhi

21 hrs ·

Sadh Sangat of West London, **WE NEED YOUR URGENT SUPPORT** we've been informed by the Singh Sabha Gurdwara Management Committee that they are CANCELLING the Weekly Sunday Evening English Katha Programme. This was due tomorrow at 6pm. The reasons given are quite unreasonable (please read below). **If you want to SAVE THE KATHA and SUPPORT US** - then please
(1) Turn up tomorrow Sunday 10th May at 6pm as a sangat to ask for the katha to be re-instated.
(2) Phone the Gurdwara on +44 20 8574 4311 and +44 20 8574 8901 and ask for the same
(3) Email info@sgsss.org to the President and Gen Secretary to ask for the same.

We have asked the President and Gen Sec to meet us at the Gurdwara to discuss this but need you to make them aware of the sangats voice.

Please read below for a copy of the email sent to the Committee by our parcharik, Jagraj Singh in response to a text from a committee member to cancel the katha.

To: info@sgsss.org

Dear Management Committee Sevadaar,
I refer to a text message (see below) received by me today from Davinder Singh, assistant stage secretary. In the text message he informs me that Basics of Sikhi katha on Sundays is being cancelled by the Gurdwara committee. The reasoning given is:

(1) False allegations against Sri Guru Singh Sabha on Tera Panth Vasse Facebook account and Daily Sikh Updates Website

(2) Exposing the Sabha to Unnecessary risk

(3) Parchariks not doing parchar

Firstly I would like to state that this katha has been going on for three years without any issue being raised by the sangat and in fact sangat has been steadily growing. The katha has been on the Daily Nitnem Banis and never has the stage been used for political purposes. Secondly this decision has been taken without any consultation or discussion with myself especially given that I live in the vicinity of the Gurdwara and know many of the committee members.

To respond to your allegations

(1) The statement made by Tera Panth Vasse stated that this is what we had been informed by members of the sangat and asked the Sabha to clarify the facts. This is not what would be termed as false allegations. Furthermore, following your posts about the matter we immediately accepted what you said to be true and issued a clarification and full apology. What is surprising is that actually much of what we said was true about the raid and arrests and yet you never acknowledged this in your statement. Agreed that a fine was not imposed but actually since the investigation is still pending then this is also not yet confirmed that no fine will be imposed.
Daily Sikh Updates is nothing to do with anyone from Tera Panth Vasse or Basics of Sikhi. Its run by an American in New York whom I’ve never met or spoken to. What they do is their business. They actually printed your response in full.

(2) Exposing the Gurdwara to risk: Asking for clarification about sangat concerns and then printing a full apology within 24 hours is not exposing the Gurdwara to any reputational risk, especially given that the real risk to the Gurdwara comes from it losing its licence to issue work permits to Granthees and Kirtanees or ends up paying a hefty fine. Given that 7 people were arrested for being illegal who were living in the houses owned by the Gurdwara then really this is a serious risk to the Gurdwara posed by the current management committee. Members of the current management committee have previously been in trouble with the UKBA and this current incident actually highlights that real risk.

(3) Parchariks should stick to Parchar: Firstly that statement was issued by the managing committee of Tera Panth Vasse as a group. No one person made an individual statement and nor does it make sense to hold Basics of Sikhi liable for asking clarification on what sangat in the UK were telling Tera Panth Vasse sevadaars in the UK. During the last three years, Basics of Sikhi has managed the sundays katha without any issues by precisely doing this, “sticking to Parchar”. We’ve avoided controversy, stuck to Gurbani and even during all the election campaigns, we never used the stage time to talk about Tera Panth Vasse. The previous management committee also used the stage to talk about the Baaj party and the current committee does the same about Sher Group but Basics of Sikhi has not done any of that.
Therefore it makes no sense to now wish to be satisfied that our Parchariks will stick to parchar given that we are going through rehraas sahib katha and therefore will be talking about Gurbani. I’d like to remind you that Gurbani is much higher that what either of us do in our personal lives. The katha of Gurbani in English has been done diligently by us for 3 years and appreciated by sangat globally. This has promoted the reputation of Singh Sabha Southall and indeed is one of the longest running English Katha programmes in South of the UK.

Furthermore, we have been informed by a number of sangat members that members of the current management committee of Singh Sabha Southall have been personally attacking myself on the stage at Singh Sabha Southall and also attacking Basics of Sikhi. This is unacceptable behaviour.

A person can be part of a political group and also a seva group and these two should not impact each other. If tomorrow one of the sevadaars of Sikh2Inspire happens to be supporting a different party than Sher Group and asks the same questions, does this mean that your own stage secretary Davinder Singh is also implicated?

These type of personal attacks are what discourage our youth from getting involved in Panthic projects. I’d like to re-iterate my view. Legitimate questions were asked by a political group and much of what they had been informed turned out to be true. Instead of acknowledging what had happened, you have now cancelled the unrelated seva of one person in that political group. The Singh Sabha Southall has never given us a single penny of the golak bheta. We’ve been there every Sunday for three years and made massive personal sacrifices because we and I personally also believe that Gurbani should be explained to the youth in English. For you to cancel the Sunday Katha without discussion or giving any thought to the sangat is unacceptable. It goes against the very nature of management committee seva, that it is done without any ego. If you have been upset by criticism then that is a personal thing. I face criticism on a daily basis globally. That does not mean we just stop our own seva or the seva of others. We have to look beyond that to “Sarbat da Bhalla” and also to needs of the Sangat and youth of today.

If you would like to discuss this then I am available tomorrow, Sunday 10th May at any time. I will be turning up to the Gurdwara at 6pm to do katha and hope that by that time you will have re-thought all this in the cool light of Gurbani. We are all members of the Gurus family and we all make mistakes.

I apologise if I’ve hurt any of your feelings. I ask that you forgive me for that. I assure you that my katha at Singh Sabha Southall will continue to be on the topic of Gurbani and will not step into the to and fro of Tera Panth Vasse or Lion or Baaj Group.

Daas,
Jagraj Singh
Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh

— Ref text message:
From Davinder Singh
Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

Due to your false allegations against Sri Guru Singh Sabha on Tera Panth Vase facebook account and Daily Sikh Updates website, Sri Guru Singh Sabha has now been exposed to unnecessary risk.

Management Committee as a whole feel that it is not in Sabha's best interest to allow anyone who is responsible for defaming the Sabha any stage time until they are satisfied that such actions will not be repeated and the parchariks will do parchaar and sevadaars will do seva without any hidden agenda or intentions of any political nature.

So with the greatest regret, on behalf on the entire Sri Guru Singh Sabha executive committee I am formally informing you (Jagraj Singh, Basics of Sikhi & Tera Panth Vase) that you will not be allowed any stage time and your weekly slot has been suspended effective immediately.

If you disagree with the decision, you are free to contact us in writing and your correspondence will be dealt with appropriately.

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Late for today, but just been told about this by the Mrs as I dont have a fb account.

Everythings 13 - Basics of Sikhi

21 hrs ·

Sadh Sangat of West London, **WE NEED YOUR URGENT SUPPORT** we've been informed by the Singh Sabha Gurdwara Management Committee that they are CANCELLING the Weekly Sunday Evening English Katha Programme. This was due tomorrow at 6pm. The reasons given are quite unreasonable (please read below). **If you want to SAVE THE KATHA and SUPPORT US** - then please

(1) Turn up tomorrow Sunday 10th May at 6pm as a sangat to ask for the katha to be re-instated.

(2) Phone the Gurdwara on +44 20 8574 4311 and +44 20 8574 8901 and ask for the same

(3) Email info@sgsss.org to the President and Gen Secretary to ask for the same.

We have asked the President and Gen Sec to meet us at the Gurdwara to discuss this but need you to make them aware of the sangats voice.

Please read below for a copy of the email sent to the Committee by our parcharik, Jagraj Singh in response to a text from a committee member to cancel the katha.

To: info@sgsss.org

Dear Management Committee Sevadaar,

I refer to a text message (see below) received by me today from Davinder Singh, assistant stage secretary. In the text message he informs me that Basics of Sikhi katha on Sundays is being cancelled by the Gurdwara committee. The reasoning given is:

(1) False allegations against Sri Guru Singh Sabha on Tera Panth Vasse Facebook account and Daily Sikh Updates Website

(2) Exposing the Sabha to Unnecessary risk

(3) Parchariks not doing parchar

Firstly I would like to state that this katha has been going on for three years without any issue being raised by the sangat and in fact sangat has been steadily growing. The katha has been on the Daily Nitnem Banis and never has the stage been used for political purposes. Secondly this decision has been taken without any consultation or discussion with myself especially given that I live in the vicinity of the Gurdwara and know many of the committee members.

To respond to your allegations

(1) The statement made by Tera Panth Vasse stated that this is what we had been informed by members of the sangat and asked the Sabha to clarify the facts. This is not what would be termed as false allegations. Furthermore, following your posts about the matter we immediately accepted what you said to be true and issued a clarification and full apology. What is surprising is that actually much of what we said was true about the raid and arrests and yet you never acknowledged this in your statement. Agreed that a fine was not imposed but actually since the investigation is still pending then this is also not yet confirmed that no fine will be imposed.

Daily Sikh Updates is nothing to do with anyone from Tera Panth Vasse or Basics of Sikhi. Its run by an American in New York whom Ive never met or spoken to. What they do is their business. They actually printed your response in full.

(2) Exposing the Gurdwara to risk: Asking for clarification about sangat concerns and then printing a full apology within 24 hours is not exposing the Gurdwara to any reputational risk, especially given that the real risk to the Gurdwara comes from it losing its licence to issue work permits to Granthees and Kirtanees or ends up paying a hefty fine. Given that 7 people were arrested for being illegal who were living in the houses owned by the Gurdwara then really this is a serious risk to the Gurdwara posed by the current management committee. Members of the current management committee have previously been in trouble with the UKBA and this current incident actually highlights that real risk.

(3) Parchariks should stick to Parchar: Firstly that statement was issued by the managing committee of Tera Panth Vasse as a group. No one person made an individual statement and nor does it make sense to hold Basics of Sikhi liable for asking clarification on what sangat in the UK were telling Tera Panth Vasse sevadaars in the UK. During the last three years, Basics of Sikhi has managed the sundays katha without any issues by precisely doing this, sticking to Parchar. Weve avoided controversy, stuck to Gurbani and even during all the election campaigns, we never used the stage time to talk about Tera Panth Vasse. The previous management committee also used the stage to talk about the Baaj party and the current committee does the same about Sher Group but Basics of Sikhi has not done any of that.

Therefore it makes no sense to now wish to be satisfied that our Parchariks will stick to parchar given that we are going through rehraas sahib katha and therefore will be talking about Gurbani. Id like to remind you that Gurbani is much higher that what either of us do in our personal lives. The katha of Gurbani in English has been done diligently by us for 3 years and appreciated by sangat globally. This has promoted the reputation of Singh Sabha Southall and indeed is one of the longest running English Katha programmes in South of the UK.

Furthermore, we have been informed by a number of sangat members that members of the current management committee of Singh Sabha Southall have been personally attacking myself on the stage at Singh Sabha Southall and also attacking Basics of Sikhi. This is unacceptable behaviour.

A person can be part of a political group and also a seva group and these two should not impact each other. If tomorrow one of the sevadaars of Sikh2Inspire happens to be supporting a different party than Sher Group and asks the same questions, does this mean that your own stage secretary Davinder Singh is also implicated?

These type of personal attacks are what discourage our youth from getting involved in Panthic projects. Id like to re-iterate my view. Legitimate questions were asked by a political group and much of what they had been informed turned out to be true. Instead of acknowledging what had happened, you have now cancelled the unrelated seva of one person in that political group. The Singh Sabha Southall has never given us a single penny of the golak bheta. Weve been there every Sunday for three years and made massive personal sacrifices because we and I personally also believe that Gurbani should be explained to the youth in English. For you to cancel the Sunday Katha without discussion or giving any thought to the sangat is unacceptable. It goes against the very nature of management committee seva, that it is done without any ego. If you have been upset by criticism then that is a personal thing. I face criticism on a daily basis globally. That does not mean we just stop our own seva or the seva of others. We have to look beyond that to Sarbat da Bhalla and also to needs of the Sangat and youth of today.

If you would like to discuss this then I am available tomorrow, Sunday 10th May at any time. I will be turning up to the Gurdwara at 6pm to do katha and hope that by that time you will have re-thought all this in the cool light of Gurbani. We are all members of the Gurus family and we all make mistakes.

I apologise if Ive hurt any of your feelings. I ask that you forgive me for that. I assure you that my katha at Singh Sabha Southall will continue to be on the topic of Gurbani and will not step into the to and fro of Tera Panth Vasse or Lion or Baaj Group.

Daas,

Jagraj Singh

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh

Ref text message:

From Davinder Singh

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

Due to your false allegations against Sri Guru Singh Sabha on Tera Panth Vase facebook account and Daily Sikh Updates website, Sri Guru Singh Sabha has now been exposed to unnecessary risk.

Management Committee as a whole feel that it is not in Sabha's best interest to allow anyone who is responsible for defaming the Sabha any stage time until they are satisfied that such actions will not be repeated and the parchariks will do parchaar and sevadaars will do seva without any hidden agenda or intentions of any political nature.

So with the greatest regret, on behalf on the entire Sri Guru Singh Sabha executive committee I am formally informing you (Jagraj Singh, Basics of Sikhi & Tera Panth Vase) that you will not be allowed any stage time and your weekly slot has been suspended effective immediately.

If you disagree with the decision, you are free to contact us in writing and your correspondence will be dealt with appropriately.

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

It probably won't effect me as much since I live in America, but Jugraj Singh deserves the slot to do his katha. This is probably a personal issue of the committee hating on Basics Of Sikhi.

[kamc]

Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs, between this and all the stuff going on at Sedgley Street Gurdwara in Wolverhampton I'm not surprised that the younger generation are turning their back's on Sikhi, we look to the older generation to guide us but all they're interested in is who's sitting on the committee and has access to the golak, sad state of affairs.

[Ranjeet01]

Does Parchaar or Kathas need to be done in the current Gurdwara.

The solution is simple, either you open another Gurdwara or you find another venue.

Our Gurus were pragmatic and found practical solutions, we must do the same.

[kamc]

Fateh . . .

Basiscs of Sikhi was allocated a slot at the gurudwara openly. The parachar done has been great and there is no doubt about it.

So why does the TPV then go ahead and start balming allegations to the current committe. Furthermore, TPV then issue another statement that

they were not informed accordingly.

Do you not have the sense to check your information before going and blaming others?

Do you not have then have the decency of an apology when you issue a 2nd statement accepting your own fault?

Do you not have a responsibility to not get involved into polictics when you do not possess any political (or even dealing with ppl) experience.

I used to like TPV; but again another joke; who are easily lead astray by anyone coming and telling them what ever.....

Question:

1. If TPV were ill informed of the information; what right did they have to go and accuse someone in public?

2. Once TPV knew they were wrongly informed; why was their no mention of an apology?

Fateh . . . .

I did see the TPV statement then their apology and did wonder what on earth was going on, it's pretty irresponsible posting stuff up on social media but this story has been reported in a few Punjabi newspapers as well since then so i think it would have been prudent for the management committee to issue a statement asap but unfortunately we Punjabi's aren't the brightest bulbs in the pack when it come's to PR. but like i've said, it's a sorry state of affairs and it's just getting worse.

[MisterrSingh]

Proof, if any was needed, that the internet has been positive in giving a voice to those who would once never have been heard, but equally, it's also allowed a lot of idiots to come to the fore who have no business in opening their mouths. Gotta take the rough with the smooth, lol!

[Cisco_Singh]

I thought the allegations were true properties owned by Singh Sabha Gurdwara Southall were raided by UK Border Agency immigration team looking for illegal immigrants living in the properties, apparently employed by the Gurdwara.

Harjap Bhangal, posted on Facebook that this information is confirmed by the ukba (a raid was conducted).

[DailyMail]

Yes it's true, UKBA did raid SGSS-owned properties on Beaconsfield Rd and Hammond Rd.

As yet, however, no fines have been imposed. That is not to say that a fine will not be imposed in the subsequent future.

As per immigration rules, any landlord that is housing a tenant who has overstayed their visa timeframe will be fined £10,000 or £20,000 PER tenant (not sure which).

[classicsingh]

We show hold Katha outside then if we can't use the Gurdwara space

[Lion of Punjab]

They won't get the spot back

Current committee has been gunning for them since they came too power

Tpv ill advised post gave them the reason too stop the katha

Don't be suprised if someone else starts katha there who is associated too the committee