Ramanand Bhagat Ji In Dasam Granth Sahib

[singhnijjar]

waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji Ki fateh

Can any one please clear my doubts

In dasam granth Guru Gobind Singh ji saying

ਪੁਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਕੋ ਕਰਾ ॥ ਭੇਸ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਕੋ ਜਿਨਿ ਧਰਾ ॥

ਕੰਠੀ ਕੰਠਿ ਕਾਠ ਕੀ ਡਾਰੀ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਨ ਕਛੂ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ ॥੨੫॥

ਭਾਵ ਕੀ ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਕਿ੍ਰਆ ਕੁਛ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ।

Then there's is bani of Bhagat Ramanand JI in dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਘਰੁ ੧

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ਕਤ ਜਾਈਐ ਰੇ ਘਰ ਲਾਗੋ ਰੰਗੁ ॥ ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਮਨੁ ਭਇਓ ਪੰਗੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਮਨ ਭਈ ਉਮੰਗ ॥ ਘਸਿ ਚੰਦਨ ਚੋਆ ਬਹੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥

ਪੂਜਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਠਾਇ ॥ ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਤਾਇਓ ਗੁਰ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥

ਜਹਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਜਲ ਪਖਾਨ ॥ ਤੂ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਸਮਾਨ ॥

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭ ਦੇਖੇ ਜੋਇ ॥ ਊਹਾਂ ਤਉ ਜਾਈਐ ਜਉ ਈਹਾਂ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥੩॥੧॥

If I'm not mistaken is guru gobind Singh Maharaj talking about same Bhagat ramanand ji in Guru Granth Sahib or some one eles

[N30S1NGH]

I am assuming its same ramanand ji, Sri dasam granth sahib ji take on ramanand ji should be taken from Absolute reality not from relative reality as it means to be uphold absolute reality (One non dual-Ikongkar reality) over relative realities.. Relative realities or sargun realities in form of avtars, bhagats are heavily downplayed in sri dasam granth sahib, significance of these relative realities or pointers is totally been destroyed to uphold Absolute Truth where there are no distinctions- It's only - ONE NON DUAL TRUTH- IKONGKAR- ONE IN ALL, ALL IN ONE. This is also done to raise the surti of seekers from form (Sargun) to Formless(Nirgun)

One of scholars of facebook puts this way to properly reconcile stance so there is no confusion:

Yes, it is from Dasam Patshah and its from the perspective of transcendence, from Awareness/consciousness/the Absolute, where all that is manifest belongs to prakrti. Don't treat paramarthic khandans as vyavaharic khandans. You may not be aware that you're doing this because these things may be new to you but we in the puratan world are familiar with such context- specific khandans. They're everywhere in indic' texts. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is simply writing in this spirit.

[AjrawatSingh]

These lines; ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਨ ਕਛੂ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ ॥੨੫॥, are about; Ramanand Bairagi; who started Bairag Matt and who did not contempolate on Lord; ਭਾਵ ਕੀ ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਕਿ੍ਰਆ ਕੁਛ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ।

Bhagat Swami Ramanand, whose hymn is in Adi Granth, who adopted Bairag Matt first; but he left it; and adopted Gurmat.

Bhagat ramanand is not founder of Bairag Matt; you can call him a reviver once but again deserter to Bairagi people because he left their philosophy.

So both are Ramanand Bairagi and Bhagat Ramanand are different.

[singhnijjar]

Thanks veer ji for clearing my doubts guess not to many people aware of this

[Bhagat Singh]

Bhagat Ramanand ji is the only famous Bairagi known in India.
Suggesting that these are two different people is a mistake. Even the translator knows this is the same person - he calls him ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ

[AjrawatSingh]

Famous does not suggest only.

Using "Ji", again does not mean that it is only about one famous Bairagi like If I call Bhagat Singh Ji does not mean that it is everytime about Shaheed Bhagat Singh Ji. Many Translators use such prefixes or suffixes like for Muhammad (Hazrat or Muhammad Saab), for Krishan (Krishan Ji), for Rama(Ram Ji). Even they call Ram Rai (Baba Ram Rai Ji), Prithi chand(Baba Prithi chand).

• Ramanand of Dasam Granth is one who has initiated Bairagi Tradition and did Karma Kaand in rest of life (ਭੇਸ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਕੋ ਜਿਨਿ ਧਰਾ ॥ ਕੰਠੀ ਕੰਠਿ ਕਾਠ ਕੀ ਡਾਰੀ) and have not contemplate on Lord - ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਕਿ੍ਰਆ ਕੁਛ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ. Bairagi is old vaishnav tradition and followers of Rama/Vishnu.
  
• Swami Ramanand of Guru Granth Sahib, who do adopted Vaishnav Tradition and propogated it, but after learning Gurmat he left that tradition(no more Bairagi) and adopted Gurmat way of life which means - ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਕਿ੍ਰਆ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ. His Hymn is present in Gur Granth Sahib. Ramanand even write that there is no significance of going to Thakur Temples: ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਮਨ ਭਈ ਉਮੰਗ ॥ ਘਸਿ ਚੰਦਨ ਚੋਆ ਬਹੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥ ਪੂਜਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਠਾਇ ॥ ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਤਾਇਓ ਗੁਰ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਜਹਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਜਲ ਪਖਾਨ ॥ ਤੂ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਸਮਾਨ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭ ਦੇਖੇ ਜੋਇ ॥ ਊਹਾਂ ਤਉ ਜਾਈਐ ਜਉ ਈਹਾਂ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥...ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥੩॥੧॥.

So Shabads of Both Granth tells that ideologically both Ramanands are different.

[Bhagat Singh]

Famous does not suggest only.

When the entire list who is being criticized is famous. You can be sure, it is the famous Bhagat Ramanand ji who is being talkd about.

• Swami Ramanand of Guru Granth Sahib, who do adopted Vaishnav Tradition and propogated it, but after learning Gurmat he left that tradition(no more Bairagi) and adopted Gurmat way of life which means -

  Lol you talk as if gurmat, vaishnav and bairagi are mutually exclusive. If that is the case, then you are quite mistaken.

[AjrawatSingh]

That list mention founder of Matt and their practices which is not equal to Gurmat not list of famous people.

• Ramanand Bairagi started Bairagi Matt and did not Bichari Prabhu Ki Reet, people still follows that Matt known as Bairagis. Do you know that? <- He Started

• Swami Ramanand have left Bairagi Matt and adopted Gurmat i.e Bichari Prabhu Ki Reet. <- He Left or do you believe he was still a Bairagi till end?

So Suggesting that Ramanand Bairagi (Founder) and Swami Ramanand is same is a big mistake. Both Gurmat and Bairagi Matt have different philosophy and way of living.

Like, There were many Fareeds in history. Every Fareed is not Shek Fareed of Gurbani but Gurbani one is famous now days.

If according to you both Ramanand are same then; as per you Sikhs can adopt Bairag Matt too and leave 5 K's and put Kanthi Kaath Ki Daari because Swami Ramanand did this till his end. Do you accept this?