I Need An Expert's Knowledge

[Eric1234]

A couple of years ago I read something in the Sikh tradition pertaining to being in union with God.

There was a mention of a silent witness that is barely undetectable during the experience. Is there anyone that might point me in the direction of where that might be written?

Thanks for your time,

Eric

[alias]

heya matie, sat siri akaal

I'm a british born sikh doing a pharma phd in uk, brought up as a devout Sikh along with my own Sikh studies research, and I'd be happy to answer.

the silent witness is one, though many say there are two.

there is a phrase in siri gur granth sahib (the sikh Living Guru; erroneously called the sikh scripture even though it is scripture as well). the phrase "chit( r ) gupat" aka chitra-gupta. most translate this to mean, two entities (can be assumed to be angels) sitting on each shoulder of a person (man or woman), taking note of all the deeds and actions that the person does, and then, presents it to "dharam-raaj". just to define terms, dharamraaj literally means, "dominion over creation" aka, the guy on the big chair who weighs out your good and bad deeds. (as a side note, a sikh does not aim to go to heaven, but go through heaven and merge with God, the undying light. 'gupat' means "that which is unseen" and chit( r ) has an image of "anything to do with the mind" and can also mean "embodiment". so chitar gupat is taken to mean the silent witness.

>>so bacisally chitar gupat means thoughts actions, and deeds etc are all recorded whether you know or not.

So, all in all, chitar gupat means "the play that the person cannot see". when we die, all of our deeds are lain out in front of us. so the silent witness, the chitar gupt, is a practical metaphore to describe that all we do/think etc, is written down. this then creates karam. now, im sure you've heard of the word karma and quite simply, this word is an adaptation of the word karam. karam is anything you sow, that's what u'll reap. situations are created from good and bad karam. so the deeds that are 'written down' get turned into karam, which must be completed. karam must be completed. and the way in the sikh dharam (sikhism) that this is achieved, is by two ways. either you go through the situation, or you meditate. these are the two ways karam are finished.

(i mention karam because the deeds that are recorded by "chatar gupat", are called lekha (literally means writings) and is basically turned into karam). so, we should not do bad, and not expect reward when doing good. in this way, we get out of the birth life and death cycle that is akin to bhuddism (who say the cycle of life is eternal - opposite to sikhs as sikhs believe meditation is the way out). so, we get out of this cycle, and aim to get through all the 'infinite' levels of heaven, to merge back into God. in guru granth sahib, it says "...as water merges with water, and as the soul merges with the "One-Soul" ..." (forgive this poor translation as a substitute for the gurmukhi (scripture language)).

also, imagine we do a deed, (defined as 100% deed). a bad deed. we meditate. it washes that bad deed. fine. kool. but. we only can wash up until 10% of that deed. that last 10% we must pay for so theres no two ways about that. however, if we are to merge into god, imbued in 'gods awesome power', then thats the only way we bypass 'serving the sentence' so to speak. if we do a good deed, then the 'good grace' we get from that, is infinitely multiplied depending on how much we meditate. (sikhs also believe in choice. we are not destined to go to heaven or hell, which is where choice comes into play. but choice is also an illusion too)

ok so recap. all our deeds are recorded and played back to us after we die when we are in the court (aptly named as the place is akin to a court) of dharamraaj (the guy with the scales to weigh out deeds and asign karam). sikhs meditate to wash their sins, not only from this life but from previous lives too. in doing so, our karam gets to zero. once it gets to zero, we are none of dharamraaj's buisness. meaning, dharamraaj lets us paas because dharamraaj only deals with deeds. so to finish off deeds is the goal of a sikh. then, ultimately, we merge back into god. sikhs believe, this status is attainable >>>>in >> this >life. sikhs do not wait to die to attain salvation. it is in this human form that we are given choice. and given the vibration of god, called naam, aka meditation. (i have scientific papers that state meditation affects you on a cellular level, ill send u them. its a nice study).

so we meditate, and excel until we finish with that undying light. formless.. self existent etc etc..

so truly, sikhs dont look at the "deed" game. we only look (or should look) to God. selfless service and meditation.

i hope this has helped and i hope i havent given too much info or over complicated it.

any other questions, id be happy to answer them.

thanks

Sim

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

[alias]

very recent meditation papers.

:respect:

:ihazcookie:

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

meditation affects your cells paper 1.PDF

meditation affects your cells paper 2.pdf

[hsingh8963]

Edited

[luckysingh99]

CHITRA GUPTA Chitra and Gupta write all the account of good and bad actions, but they do not look towards the devotees of the Lord. (Asa M. 5, p. 393) Meditating at the door of the Unknowable and Incom-prehensible Lord, one attained the Permanent Seat, where there is neither birth nor death nor transmigration, where the illusion and suffering ceases, where the script of Chitragupta is torn and the messengers of Yama do not have any power. (Sri Raga M. 5, p. 79) Closing the door and behind many curtains, one commits sin with the wife of another person, when Chitragupta asks for the account, then who will shield you? (Sorath M. 5, p. 616) Chitragupta is the scribe or registrar of Yama.

When the messengers of Yama take the dead person to the abode of Yama, they are confronted with Chitragupta, by whom their good and bad actions are recorded. Yama calls upon him to read the accounts of their deeds. When the account is read out, a balance is struck. If the balance happens to go against any person, he is tåken to hell, where he is tortured by the supervisors. The devotees of the Lord are not harassed. Some believe that Chitragupta is only one person who keeps an account of both good and bad actions. But there are others who think that Chitra and Gupta are two persons. One records only good actions and the other records only bad deeds

I'm sorry to interrupt, but blindly copying and pasting is not good practice. I read the 1st line and saw a huge misconstrued and misleading translation and did not even bother reading the rest !!!

I don't think ang 393 means what the sentence above says.......need to read and contemplate the whole shabad to acknowledge the message.

[hsingh8963]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but blindly copying and pasting is not good practice. I read the 1st line and saw a huge misconstrued and misleading translation and did not even bother reading the rest !!!

I don't think ang 393 means what the sentence above says.......need to read and contemplate the whole shabad to acknowledge the message.

Your are RIght!!! ADmin Delete my post.

[hsingh8963]

Your are RIght!!! ADmin Delete my post.

I'm sorry to interrupt, but blindly copying and pasting is not good practice. I read the 1st line and saw a huge misconstrued and misleading translation and did not even bother reading the rest !!!

I don't think ang 393 means what the sentence above says.......need to read and contemplate the whole shabad to acknowledge the message.

I saw the ang's and I figuered it would be fine :stupidme: , mistake on my part

[Eric1234]

I want to thank everyone for their help, but I feel I must not of made myself clear. I'm not speaking about Karma. I'm speaking of the meditation experience where one joins in union with God, in the inner space where there is no time, no memory of the world that the one who was meditating in just a moment before. During that experience, I was wondering if in the Sikh lineage there is mention of a faint witness. I don't know if it would be a creation story about how the soul journeys from God into life, but it was about what takes place at the level of the soul, when it is nearest to God. I hope this clears it up a bit. And thanks again for all your comments.

Eric

[scali]

The witness is the EGO essentially,ones story that I am so and so, my parents, country, race etc. Samadhi the state of union with GOD is where the witness ego disappears into GOD(unity). As we are three separate entites in an illusion body, mind an soul. Sikhism stress on repetatition on GODs name to attain samadhi where the witness dissapears into the all.

[jpsingh2]

There are numourous mentions of joining with God. I would say about 5% of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji talks explicitly about it so it should not be hard to find a quote. The jist is that the soul and God become one just as a water droplet and a large body of water merge together. Im not too sure about this silent witness thing you are talking about. Also God is seen as always present everywhere at all times. Naam = what is beyond value and when you think in these terms of being beyond values than you will join with God. The trick is to join with God at all times which is seen as the most pleasurable and most useful thing but whilist doing so you keep all other things secondary in your mind and still attend to them.

Hope that helps.