Shastar Puja

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

You mean the one titled:

"The Episode About the (Goddess) Kali’s Sacrificial Offering"...right.

Bhai Rattan Singh here is stating that Baba Banda Singh declared that Guru Sahib made deals with Durga/Kali and behaved no better than the Hindus who sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives to satisfy Kali? That Baba Banda Singh was a maniac who told the Sikhs to slaughter houseflies (???) to meet the totals that he committed.

Forgive me for not taking this seriously.

WarriorSinghUK - that may be a sign to be more careful. Generally speaking, trying to maintain bladed weapons (polishing/sharpening and the like) will put you at much higher risk of getting cut. Just saying. Now, how does this reconcile for me, who is a gun owner and does not anoint any weapons (not to mention a multitude of bladed weapons at home). Will the guns shoot me to extract blood (I have a few, so we are talking about a lethal scenario here)? I am being serious here. Have there been episodes of people being shot with their own guns because they did not donate blood to their guns? I have trouble believing this, given the prevalence of gun owners in the area (many of which are Sikhs and do not anoint their weapons with any sort of blood) and lack of any accidental discharges resulting in blood being shed. Guns are shastars per Shastar Naam Malaa and, therefore, would qualify for this blood donation per the Shastar Maryada correct?

Any other references for analysis - please submit. If this is an established and integral part of Sikh practice, there must be multiple, Sikhi based references in support of it, so please submit.

Here is the translation text of the relevant excerpt from Sri Gur Panth Parkash and some bold-text highlights for your attention - you can read it at http://sikhinstitute.org/gpp_v1.pdf:

Then Banda Singh made another revelation,

That he had intended to slaughter one lakh and a quarter lives.

Since he could not meet the intended target,

The balance of those sacrificed offerings needed to be cleared. (1)

As the Guru had intended to offer one crore and a quarter sacrifices,

The Khalsa Panth had to clear that backlog of sacrificial deaths.

The Goddess Kali would only be satiated and propitiated,

After the promised number of (Singhs) were slaughtered in war. (2)

The Goddess Kali failing to be propitiated had destroyed,

Prithvi Raj Chauhan even though he had sacrificed twenty five lac soldiers.

The goddess Kali was invoked by Prophet Mohammed for initiating his religion,

But she devoured prophet’s progeny as well (for deficient propitiation). (3)

Anyone who invokes her without propitiating her fully,

Fails to escape her wrath (after partial propitiation).

(But) One who invokes her and satiates her sacrificial craving,

She bestows prosperity on him as well as on his progeny. (4)

Dohra : The Gods had invoked and appeased her in Satyuga3 ,

Whereupon they had happily witnessed her blessings.

Lord Rama4 had satiated and appeased her in Treta Yuga,

Who, along with his whole dynasty, received her blessings. (5)

The Pandavas5 invoked the Goddess in the age of Duapar,

And offered the sacrificial (blood) to her heart’s content.

They had satiated and appeased not only the goddess,

But her whole progeny as well (with the blood of their brethren). (6)

Neither is it advisable to invoke Goddess Kali’s blessings,

Nor can her invocation be dispensed with for solving one’s problems.

Whosoever succeeds in satiating and appeasing the goddess,

Ends up becoming an all powerful and mighty sovereign. (7)

Chaupai: Since no body could invoke and satiate her in Kaliyuga,

She devoured them since they failed to satiate her.

I (Banda Singh) had intended to propitiate her through sacrifices of Singhs,

But sparing the Singhs she had recoiled upon him instead. (8)

Dohra : Then Banda Singh instructed the (pleading) Singhs,

That they should accomplish his (unfinished task).

They must offer as many sacrifices of (living) heads,

As remained in balance to square up the one lakh and a quarter figure. (9)

Chaupai : The Singhs, following the instructions of Banda Singh,

Slaughtered all the horses and camels to meet that target.

For the rest, they slaughtered all the dogs and cats,

Which had gathered there to feed on the carcasses. (10)

Even then these sacrificial deaths fell short of the targetted figure,

When the head count was taken for the promised figure.

Then Banda Singh instructed the Singhs for more sacrifices,

By killing houseflies to complete the figure of one lakh and a quarter. (11)

(After such ridiculous instructions), manypeople started feeling,

As if Banda Singh lost his balance and had gone mad.

While some followed Banda Singh’s instruction in all sincerity,

Others deserted his company feeling astonished at his wits. (12)

The Singhs, who were devout, faithful and true to their salt,

They declared to sacrifice their lives along with their leader.

While some felt no justification in deserting their leader,

Others deserted post haste without seeking anybody’s advice. (13)

[savinderpalsingh]

i head in katha , that chandi the adh shakti told guru sahib, "baro mainu" guru sahib said go kill demons , she was unsuccessfull then he took form of dusht daman.

then she came again , but guru said

kam te kita ni taaain !! ?

adh shakti - kirpa karo baro mainu

then guru sahib said , changa will do in kalyug i will come in form of gobind singh

then chandi came in form of mata sahib kaur ji

[DelhiTakht]

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

Unless we understand what does Kali/Durga in Sikhi context stands for, we would keep on questioning everything even our history.

Listen to Giani Inderjeet Singh Jee-s katha.

[savinderpalsingh]

Exactly i posted that from his katha

[DelhiTakht]

Exactly i posted that from his katha

This was for other guys veerah. U are a gyani.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Jio, have you read the above excerpt of your own reference? You could translate Kali as Akaal Purakh and it still won't make sense (again, from Shastar Naam Malaa with reference to the lines, "Kaal Tuhi, Kali Tuhi.", alluding that Dasam Patshah's reference to Kali can indeed be Akaal Purakh). Why would Akaal Purakh need thousands of lives sacrificed? Please provide your vichaar on the reference as to how it is in line with Sikhi. Why would Akaal Purakh be demanding of sacrifices to grant boons?

As for Giani Inderjeet Singh's katha - what is his reference? Understand that people (and I am not making any statement against Giani Ji) have made up ridiculous "history" based on nothing but their whims. I am very aware that Kathakars are not literature books and don't (always) cite their references, but to state that Mata Sahib Kaur, mother of the Sikhs, was Chandi, is definitely something that requires citation and reference.

[savinderpalsingh]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Jio, have you read the above excerpt of your own reference? You could translate Kali as Akaal Purakh and it still won't make sense (again, from Shastar Naam Malaa with reference to the lines, "Kaal Tuhi, Kali Tuhi.", alluding that Dasam Patshah's reference to Kali can indeed be Akaal Purakh). Why would Akaal Purakh need thousands of lives sacrificed? Please provide your vichaar on the reference as to how it is in line with Sikhi. Why would Akaal Purakh be demanding of sacrifices to grant boons?

As for Giani Inderjeet Singh's katha - what is his reference? Understand that people (and I am not making any statement against Giani Ji) have made up ridiculous "history" based on nothing but their whims. I am very aware that Kathakars are not literature books and don't (always) cite their references, but to state that Mata Sahib Kaur, mother of the Sikhs, was Chandi, is definitely something that requires citation and reference.

you should go read itihas on mata sahib deva ji's gurudwara

if your cup is already full , if anyone will try to put something in it , it will only spill out

come back and learn things with more open mind .

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Yeah, given I am located in California and don't have any plans to go to India...not going to happen any time soon. If you have a picture of the relevant inscription, I will be more than happy to read.

"if your cup is already full , if anyone will try to put something in it , it will only spill out

come back and learn things with more open mind ."

How...philosophical. Thanks. There is a difference between having an open mind and blindly accepting something that is not (at least without further explanation, hence the Sant Jwala Singh Harkhowal story I inserted) in line with Gurbani or no solid references can be provided for a statement.

Whatever...if you want to declare victory or something in this thread, go ahead...do a few Jakarae and whatnot if it makes you feel better. This is going nowhere fast.

[DelhiTakht]

Mata Sahib Deva Ji

[DelhiTakht]

ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਹੈ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਦੇਬਿ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਮਾਤ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥

As for Kal Tuhi Kali Tuhi Tuhi Teg Ar(u) Teer||

Tuhi in the tuk (4 times) refers to Akaal Shatki.