If Sikhs Are Vegetarian Because We Respect Life, Then Should We Also Be Vegan?

[Moogle1542 4]

This has been bothering me for some time now. It is as the title says, why does our respect for life stop with vegetarianism?

When I suggest Sikhs should consider becoming vegan, it is become of the horrendous atrocities that occur within the dairy industry. Cows are forcefully artificially inseminated so that they get pregnant and lactate (produce milk)

Their calves are taken from them so they don't drink the profits and then slaughtered for veal.

They spend their whole lives in chains and being abused.

Becoming pregnant and producing milk so often that raw milk is full of blood, puss and infection. They are injected with hormones and bred so that their udders swell to unnatural sizes, causing them immense pain, just so they are able to produce more..

Is this right? Can Sikhi justify this? I've reached a point where I've started to laugh at Sikhs that claim to be righteous because they are vegetarian because to kill for meat is wrong, but don't want to hear about dairy abuse. Is torturing for milk acceptable? It would be more humane to just kill the animal and take its meat rather than let it live and make it suffer!

Perhaps Guruji never condemned the use of milk because perhaps in their time it was different. Perhaps there was not this evil level of greed that exists today. People just took what they needed/could from their farm cows. But times have changed and the treatment of cows in dairy farms is absolutely barbaric.

How can we as Sikhs allow this to happen? The truth about dairy is no secret. There are volumes of information available, just as there are about the truth of meat industries. Yet why have Sikhs not taken an official stand to no longer be part of this cruelty? How can we happily be just vegetarian when true respect and value for life comes from being vegan?

Edited August 29, 2014 by Moogle1542

[Moogle1542 4]

Also, for those who may argue that milk was part of Guruji's diet and there is mention of this in Bani (kheer etc.), or that rejecting milk will lead to rejecting prashaad etc, THERE ARE MANY, FAR HEALTHIER & TASTIER ALTERNATIVES. Coconut milk, almond milk, rice milk are but a few, all of which can be used just as effectively as dairy milk to make the foods we love. A Sikh does not have to give up their lifestyle or pleasures (because who doesn't love barfi?) but they can give up a lifestyle that funds tremendous cruelty.

Perhaps I am asking for too much, but there would be no greater joy regarding this issue than to see Sikh protests and discussions, and ultimately the official decision to end the use of dairy milk. For now I just hope to raise awareness and hope that the trend catches on amongst the Sangat.

[ElusiveFighter 105]

Please like this page and keep upto date on issues ethical regarding your diet.

Guru has said that milk and ghee are the best foods. We should increase their intake, even if it means lowering intake of other foods. Alterntaive milks have artificial derived (and low) nutrition, have been highly processed etc. Real milk is a super food. Medicinal. Has whey, proteins, omega 3 fats, a complete food. Sadly ALL supermarket milk, including organic, is plastic milk. Dead. Pasterised and homoginised.

RAW milk is the way to go. Our sangat of over 70 familes has been consuming raw milk for over a year now (some for a few years). Healths have massively improved for all. Kids who would not touch milk, love this milk. People with asthma abe eczma have seen big improvements in health. Weight-strength trainerers use this as the original protein shake (it has whey and proteins in complete natural form). Most nutrition is killed in regular pasterisation process.

Raw milk also has all the beneficial bacteria still alive. Boosting your immune system. This is one of the fundamental purposes of milk, that which copycat milk cannot replicate.

If anyone is interesting in joining our sangat co-op of getting raw milk from the most ethical farm in the country get in touch on the facebook page or on khalsaethics@gmail.com. This is a not for profit seva using numbers to play the ethical economics game.

The farm we use feeds cows organic only. Has acres of fields which they graze the cozw on daily. Milk them only once a day. Calves live with mums for between 6-9 months AND cows are officially retired after milk producing days are over. Cows here live to around 12-14 years as opposed to 4-5 in the regular high intensity industrial dairy industry.

Please read:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=840783775934371&id=819349488077800

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=830012770344805&id=819349488077800

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=829842553695160&id=819349488077800

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=823339317678817&id=819349488077800

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=822468654432550&substory_index=0&id=819349488077800

[stingers12 63]

Can drink milk but organic meaning straight more the cow ur self

[ElusiveFighter 105]

Organic is not good enough. It is 'killed' milk. Pasterised and homoginsed.

You need RAW organic.

[Moogle1542 4]

Please like this page and keep upto date on issues ethical regarding your diet.

Guru has said that milk and ghee are the best foods. We should increase their intake, even if it means lowering intake of other foods. Alterntaive milks have artificial derived (and low) nutrition, have been highly processed etc. Real milk is a super food. Medicinal. Has whey, proteins, omega 3 fats, a complete food. Sadly ALL supermarket milk, including organic, is plastic milk. Dead. Pasterised and homoginised.

RAW milk is the way to go. Our sangat of over 70 familes has been consuming raw milk for over a year now (some for a few years). Healths have massively improved for all. Kids who would not touch milk, love this milk. People with asthma abe eczma have seen big improvements in health. Weight-strength trainerers use this as the original protein shake (it has whey and proteins in complete natural form). Most nutrition is killed in regular pasterisation process.

Raw milk also has all the beneficial bacteria still alive. Boosting your immune system. This is one of the fundamental purposes of milk, that which copycat milk cannot replicate.

If anyone is interesting in joining our sangat co-op of getting raw milk from the most ethical farm in the country get in touch on the facebook page or on khalsaethics@gmail.com. This is a not for profit seva using numbers to play the ethical economics game.

The farm we use feeds cows organic only. Has acres of fields which they graze the cozw on daily. Milk them only once a day. Calves live with mums for between 6-9 months AND cows are officially retired after milk producing days are over. Cows here live to around 12-14 years as opposed to 4-5 in the regular high intensity industrial dairy industry.

Please read:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=840783775934371&id=819349488077800

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=830012770344805&id=819349488077800

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=829842553695160&id=819349488077800

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=823339317678817&id=819349488077800

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=822468654432550&substory_index=0&id=819349488077800

This is interesting, however I would have to argue against your claim that milk alternatives are 'artificial' when they can easily be made at home. Rice, coconuts and almonds are very much real superfoods and do not become 'artificial' when they are made into milks. Of course this is probably not the case with supermarket versions, theres not much you can trust these days regarding them.

That being said, the sad reality is that for 99% of people the milk we use will come from the supermarket which will fund cruelty. Even if there are more 'ethical' standards available, it still keeps the demand for milk alive, which will ultimately keep the supply alive. As long as we want milk, the dairy industry will grow, and these atrocities will be allowed to happen.

How important is it to keep milk in our diets over the lives of living, breathing and feeling creatures? Yes, you can provide all the nutritional benefits of milk, although there are many debates surrounding this anyway, but then how does that differ from the meat eater vs vegetarian arguments? The meat eater will argue all the nutritional benefits of meat, and the vegetarian will try to explain how there are alternatives that are just as good. Now the vegetarian is arguing all the nutritional benefits of milk, and the vegan is trying to explain how there are plant based alternatives that provide just as much nutrition.

In response to your own farm, I think it is important you lay out exactly how it functions. What happens to the calves once they are taken from their mothers? What happens to cows once they are retired? Do you practice artificial insemination? How many times on average do your cows become pregnant in their lifetimes so they can give milk? Do you make sure that the calves are weaned properly and given as much of their mothers milk as they need (because after all, it is theirs before it is ours)? Once the cows have died, what do you do with their bodies?

Can you ensure that your farm is 100% ethical, moral and humane? Because if it is not 100%, even if it is 99%, then there remains that 1% in which you are taking advantage of a living creature for your own gain, and I personally cannot condone such a thing.

[panthicunity 229]

kudos to poster ...

No animal in nature drinks other species' milk.

And no animal drinks even their own mother's milk after being weaned.

In earlier times milk was needed coz there were not enough calories to go around.

[geo 3]

to take this point even further it could be said that all food should be ethically sourced and produced. so food produced by slave or low paid workers should be avoided. food which has resulted in animals habitats being destroyed should be avoided. food which has travelled thousands of miles should be avoided as it pollutes the planet. many other points could be made also. it will eventually prove too difficult to feed everyone i think.

on a seperate point: members of many religions are allowed to eat meat and some people can only survive by eating meat (people living near the north pole/siberia and people living in jungles) so why is it ok for some people and not others? do meat eaters have zero chance of union with god?

[panthicunity 229]

Also as sikhs we fight Zulm ....so why not extend it to poor dairy animals , rather than be a part of it

Organic is not good enough. It is 'killed' milk. Pasterised and homoginsed.

You need RAW organic.

You need niether

[Moogle1542 4]

Sorry but we eat meat, we ain't Hindoos

Yes I am aware that some do, however some do not and are vegetarian. If you are a meat eater then of course this post will have no interest to you - unless you are more empathic towards dairy industries than meat industries.

Please do not comment saying 'we eat meat' so as to discredit this discussion when I'm sure you are fully aware that others do not. This post is for vegetarians, although I'm sure the discussion will welcome your opinions.

Thank you.

[savinderpalsingh 697]

why not get your own cow or goat for milk and dairy stuff , rather then getting them from dairies who abuse animals?

like find a good place where they keep good care of animals and get milk and stuff from there?

[Moogle1542 4]

to take this point even further it could be said that all food should be ethically sourced and produced. so food produced by slave or low paid workers should be avoided. food which has resulted in animals habitats being destroyed should be avoided. food which has travelled thousands of miles should be avoided as it pollutes the planet. many other points could be made also. it will eventually prove too difficult to feed everyone i think.

on a seperate point: members of many religions are allowed to eat meat and some people can only survive by eating meat (people living near the north pole/siberia and people living in jungles) so why is it ok for some people and not others? do meat eaters have zero chance of union with god?

Yes, I think you are correct when you say these foods should be avoided. It would be ideal if this was possible, however you are also correct in saying that it is too difficult. I think the biggest difference between this and the dairy industry is that when it comes to slavery or low pay, these things can be changed and made better, however when it comes to milk then the current situation is the only way that milk can be produced on such a mass level. I think that's what makes it so bad, the fact that it can't really be made 'better' to fulfil all the demand that exists. If it stopped treating cows as commodities, then supply would decrease, and the entire industry would collapse.

Of course meat is okay for some and not others, especially when it comes to need. If meat is needed for survival then that is perfectly acceptable. God knows such a situation and its circumstances, a union will not be severed when there was no other choice. God is loving and merciful. However, when meat is eaten out of greed, not because it is needed, simply because 'it tastes good and I like it', then that is when I begin to see issue with it.

When it comes to other religions, well that is their own path if they are allowed to eat meat and believe it is acceptable by God. However this question was aimed for Sikhs, specifically those who are already vegetarian, and it was not a matter of whether or not it makes God happy, but a matter of how far does the SIkh view of 'respect for all living creatures' extend.

Thank you.

[Moogle1542 4]

why not get your own cow or goat for milk and dairy stuff , rather then getting them from dairies who abuse animals?

like find a good place where they keep good care of animals and get milk and stuff from there?

Both these things are quite difficult to do. The first one really speaks for itself, I can't imagine being allowed to have a cow tied up in my back garden lol!

The second seems to suggest the 'organic/free range' option, and while it does seem better than the abuse industries there are still issues that remain when it comes to calves and 'dried up' cows being sold to butchers because they have no use to the farmers. We need to remember that at the end of the day, each farmer is running a business and is trying to make money. He will get rid of anything that decreases his profits, however those things happen to be living creatures.

A previous poster on the first page made mention of his organization, Khalsa Ethics, that sounded quite promising however he has not replied yet to the follow up questions. Hopefully he is able to give the answer you are looking for, but for now it seems far too good to be true.

[geo 3]

Both these things are quite difficult to do. The first one really speaks for itself, I can't imagine being allowed to have a cow tied up in my back garden lol!

The second seems to suggest the 'organic/free range' option, and while it does seem better than the abuse industries there are still issues that remain when it comes to calves and 'dried up' cows being sold to butchers because they have no use to the farmers. We need to remember that at the end of the day, each farmer is running a business and is trying to make money. He will get rid of anything that decreases his profits, however those things happen to be living creatures.

A previous poster on the first page made mention of his organization, Khalsa Ethics, that sounded quite promising however he has not replied yet to the follow up questions. Hopefully he is able to give the answer you are looking for, but for now it seems far too good to be true.

its a tricky situation, we are now so detached from the reality of our food and its production. this was never the case just a few decades ago. more scandals will come out in future

[savinderpalsingh 697]

Both these things are quite difficult to do. The first one really speaks for itself, I can't imagine being allowed to have a cow tied up in my back garden lol!

The second seems to suggest the 'organic/free range' option, and while it does seem better than the abuse industries there are still issues that remain when it comes to calves and 'dried up' cows being sold to butchers because they have no use to the farmers. We need to remember that at the end of the day, each farmer is running a business and is trying to make money. He will get rid of anything that decreases his profits, however those things happen to be living creatures.

A previous poster on the first page made mention of his organization, Khalsa Ethics, that sounded quite promising however he has not replied yet to the follow up questions. Hopefully he is able to give the answer you are looking for, but for now it seems far too good to be true.

no its not difficult , or you can have a goat ,

besides nothing beats the authentic , goa smell of punjab pind haha

you can make cow dung cakes old school , which you can use latter to burn your chulla for food

selling to butchers happns a lot in west