Tal Or Kal

[InderjitS]

ਸੁ ਕਹੁ ਟਲ/ਕਲ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥

Old post from Gurmatbibek. In response to a question whether we recite the Bhatt's name as 'Kal' or as commonly recite before taking vaak 'Tal' Kulbir Singh writes:

Indeed the correct paath is ਸੁ ਕਹੁ ਕਲ and not ਸੋ ਕਹੁ ਟਲ. Bhai Hardaas the Hazoori Likhaari of Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee and whose written Bir is considered to be one of the most Shudh Bir has the paath - ਸੁ ਕਹੁ ਕਲ as opposed to ਸੋ ਕਹੁ ਟਲ.

The biggest proof is that the internal numbering system of Gurbani does NOT backup a Bhatt by the name of Tal. All 10 Savaiyas of Savaiye Mahalle Dooje ke are written by Bhatt Kal and if the last one had been written by Bhatt Tal (such a Bhatt did not exist), then the numbering in the end would have indicated that as is the case with Savaiyas of Mahalle Chauthe ke, which are written by multiple Bhatts and the numbering system reflects that. Anyone, can go through all Bhatt Savaiyas and do the counting. It’s a great exercise to learn the meticulous numbering system that Guru Sahib designed to prevent infiltration of Kachi Baani and to enable us to count the Bhatts whose Baani is written in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

Presented below are two pictures of Saroops completed in 1714AD and 1837AD respectively. Both of these Saroops have the correct Paath ਸੁ ਕਹੁ ਕਲ as opposed to ਸੋ ਕਹੁ ਟਲ.







The printed Saroops have such typo mistakes that need to be corrected. So how did ਕਲ become ਟਲ? Depending on the writing style of Likhaaris, some write Kakka and Tainka very similarly and many writers copied the wrong Paath and then Tal became more prevalent than Kal but as stated before, many old Saroops do have the correct Paath Kal. Guru Sahib kirpa karan.

Bhul Chuk dee Maafi jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

[Koi]

Whilst I appreciate Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji's bhaavnaa, I do not at all agree with his view.

This sort of stance is taken up by those (mainly missionary types) who believe that there were only 11 Bhatt Sahibans, rather than 17 (the puraatan belief).

I suggest reading Faridkot Sateek or Ameer Bhandar Sateek for Bhaat De Sawaiye.

As far as the argument of hand written Saroops, then there are many that have "So Kahu Tal...". However, it is still quite interseting to see how this discrepency crept in.

[curious_man]

Some Gurmukh pyara did not copy it correctly.. as u see it after Ik Oankaar Satigur Prasaadi|| the second pic has two extra || and spelling of savaiye is different in both pics. so thts a copy error and can be applied to kal/tal as well. thts y majority is used and majority of granths have Tal.

[Mehtab Singh]

Kalshar who is also known as Kalh and Talh was the leader of the group of the Bhatts who had come to the congregation of Guru Arjun Dev.

http://searchgurbani.com/bhatts/bhatt_kalshar

Kalshar, who is also known as Kalh and Talh, was the leader of the poets, and taking into consideration the total contribution of hymns by the poets which is 123, Poet Kalshar alone has contributed a considerable 54 hymns.

http://www.sikher.com/wiki/sikh-teachings/sikh-saints/poet-kalshar/#

[curious_man]

Mehtab ji, as you know there is a disagreement between scholars of the panth regarding 17 or 11 Bhatts.

Basically sampradas, kavi Santokh Singh ji, bhai Vir Singh ji etc.. say 17.

While Prof Sahib Singh and scholars after them say 11.

Pandit Kartar Singh Dakha say 19!!

Moreover, regarding the pics shown above, they don't give any decision since (read my previous post) even the spellings of svayie and extra || are mismatched. so there is certainly some copy error. Hence, not good examples.

so is it Tal or Kal? - I dont know. Since the printed saroops have Tal, hece in my opinion I would read as Tal.

[Mehtab Singh]

Honestly I don't have any idea, I just pasted what I remembered reading last week

[InderjitS]

Totally forgot about this post..hahaha.

Please read replies @ http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,6727 and make up your own minds.